Kosovo in blood!

Rusty Skull

Vault Senior Citizen
Orderite
Due to the incopmetence of international miltary forces (aka KFOR),yesterday at around 2 pm,Albanians started full scale attack against Serbs (well what is left of them,due again to the incompetence of international forces) and started to burn,kill & destroy evrything in their path!

Casaulties (so far) :200 wounded,20 dead.
 
Saw it on television five minutes ago. I must confess I don't know a hell of a lot about what's going on there, but it doesn't look good, does it? I saw a mosque going up in flames and some riots on the streets. Apparently this happened after three kids drowned or something? Is that right?

Hm... who's side are you on? :roll:
 
Blade Runner said:
I saw a mosque going up in flames

Not a mosque, an Orthodox church

Man, this sucks. The UN peaceforce and NATO are working to quiet things down, tho'
 
From the New York Times
-
Kosovo Torn by Widest Violence Since U.N. Took Control in '99
By NICHOLAS WOOD

Published: March 18, 2004


RISTINA, Kosovo, March 17 — At least eight people were killed and more than 200 wounded in clashes between Albanians and Serbs across Kosovo on Wednesday, in what United Nations officials described as the worst violence in the province since they took over its administration almost five years ago.

The fighting erupted in midmorning in the divided city of Mitrovica after a protest over the drownings of at least two Albanian children. The protesters blamed Serbs for the deaths.

The province, in southern Serbia, is inhabited mostly by Albanians.

By nightfall the United Nations had lost control of several city centers, and mobs of Albanian men were attacking Serbian areas at will. In the provincial capital, Pristina, machine gunfire and explosions could be heard late into the night.

A United Nations police spokesman said the exact number of casualties was difficult to calculate because the police and peacekeeping troops had not re-established control.

"This is the severest case of unrest since the end of the war," said Derek Chappell, the chief United Nations police spokesman in Kosovo.

Although the province has experienced waves of violence since NATO peacekeepers arrived in June 1999, he said none had been as widespread as the clashes on Wednesday. "This is happening all over Kosovo," he said.

The rapid escalation of violence appears to have been set off when at least two boys drowned in a river near Mitrovica on Tuesday evening. A third is still missing.

A fourth boy, who had been with the group, said they had been chased into the Ibar River by a group of Serbs with a dog. Interviews with the boy were broadcast on local Albanian-language television channels.

Thousands of Albanian men gathered in Mitrovica on Wednesday morning to protest the deaths. According to Andrew Testa, a freelance photographer for The New York Times who was at the scene, people in the crowd pushed their way past police officers guarding a bridge over the Ibar, the river that divides the Serbian-dominated northern part of Mitrovica from the Albanian-populated south.

United Nations police officers in Pristina said at least seven people had been killed in Mitrovica. Mr. Chappell estimated that 200 had been wounded. He also said 17 soldiers serving as United Nations peacekeepers had been injured.

As news of the clashes spread, violent crowds took to the streets in other cities. One Albanian man was shot dead by troops south of Pristina when, the police said, he tried to ram a roadblock set up by the peacekeeping troops. A crowd of several hundred gathered outside the United Nations mission's main headquarters here and attacked police cars and United Nations vehicles.

Similar protests were reported in the southern city of Gnjilane and the ethnically mixed town of Kosovo Polje.

In the northwestern town of Pec, Albanians surrounded the United Nations regional headquarters, forcing officials to evacuate the building.

In the nearby village of Bjelo Polje, where a pilot program has been set up to encourage the return of Serbian refugees who fled Kosovo at the end of the war here in 1999, United Nations police officers said a crowd of Albanians had attacked homes and set at least one on fire.

Some international officials said the violence reflected a growing impatience among Kosovo's Albanian majority about the future of the province, once tightly controlled by Serbia under Slobodan Milosevic.
 
Here's a bit more. Seems some assholes sicked a dog on some boys, sending them into the river where three drowned.

In a place where ethnic tensions run high, it only takes a few assholes to fuck up the peace.

Peacekeepers Regroup After Clashes in Kosovo
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: March 18, 2004


Filed at 7:37 a.m. ET

PRISTINA, Serbia-Montenegro (AP) -- NATO sent reinforcements to Kosovo on Thursday after 22 people were killed and hundreds injured in fighting between Serbs and ethnic Albanians in the worst violence since the province's 1998-99 war.

Arsonists on Thursday torched several Serb houses in Obilic, an ethnically mixed town west of the provincial capital of Pristina, forcing U.N. police and NATO troops to evacuate dozens of Serbs.

Bracing for more trouble, NATO mobilized extra units Thursday, sending about 350 troops to the province, mostly from Bosnia and Italy, to beef up the 18,500 international peacekeepers now in Kosovo.

The breakdown in order illustrated the failure of U.N. and NATO efforts to snuff out ethnic hatreds and set the province on the path of reconciliation some five years after a NATO air campaign stopped a Serb crackdown on the independence-minded Kosovo Albanian majority.

NATO played down the prospects of renewed conflict, saying the alliance and the United Nations were committed to keeping the peace and quelling tensions.

``I don't believe there is a possibility of a war. We will do what is necessary to restore and uphold law and order,'' NATO spokesman Jamie Shea said Thursday.

Serbs see the U.N.-run province as their ancient homeland. Ethnic Albanians want independence from Serbia-Montenegro. Hatreds between the two sides continue to boil over into violence.

All the deaths came in gunbattles, riots and street fighting on Wednesday. Evidence of the violence was still visible: Smoke billowed from Serb houses set ablaze in the ethnically mixed town of Kosovo Polje and burned out cars littered the streets of Pristina.

The clashes started in the ethnically divided city of Kosovska Mitrovica after ethnic Albanians blamed Serbs for the drowning of two of their children and began rampaging in revenge.

Melees broke out elsewhere in the U.N.-run province, including several enclaves where Serbs have eked out a sheltered existence since the end of the war.

NATO-led peacekeepers and Romanian police units moved in, firing tear gas, rubber bullets and stun grenades to stop ethnic Albanians from surging across a key bridge toward the Serb side of the city, where another crowd had gathered.

The new tally of casualties Thursday was given by Angela Joseph, a spokeswoman for the U.N. police. Sixty-one police officers, including 40 members of the U.N. special police unit, were injured during the clashes, she said.

Separately, Lt. Col. Jim Moran, spokesman for the NATO-led peacekeepers, said that 17 peacekeepers were injured.

About 100 Serbs were evacuated from their buildings in the center of Pristina and other communities by police and NATO-led peacekeepers, officials said. Some of the apartments evacuated by the Serbs and the cars they left behind were torched by arsonists.

``Serbs here are being killed in their houses,'' Father Sava, a Serbian Orthodox priest in Kosovo, said by telephone from Obilic. He said at least 15 Serb homes had been torched and that the town's church was on fire. The claims could not immediately be confirmed.

NATO-led peacekeepers were blocking a key road with Macedonia leading through a Serb enclave of Caglavica, which had been the scene of street fighting.

Commercial flights to Kosovo's only civilian airport were suspended on NATO orders.

Senior international officials appealed for calm.

``I urge all ethnic communities in Kosovska Mitrovica and in the rest of Kosovo to avoid further escalation, to act with calm and to refrain from demonstrations and roadblocks,'' NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said.

``The escalating violence must end. It threatens the process of democratization and reconciliation in Kosovo,'' said U.S. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli.

The unrest spilled beyond Kosovo's borders.

In Belgrade, the capital of Serbia-Montenegro, demonstrators set the city's 17th century mosque on fire after clashing with police trying to guard the building. The protesters demanded that the government act to protect their Orthodox Christian kin in Kosovo from attacks by the province's predominantly Muslim ethnic Albanians.

Serbia's senior official for Kosovo, Nebojsa Covic, accused NATO of a ``dramatic inability'' to protect Serbs. ``The entire concept of multiethnic life in Kosovo has now collapsed,'' he said.

Trouble began amid reports that Serbs in a village near Kosovska Mitrovica set a dog on a group of ethnic Albanian boys, sending three -- the oldest 12 -- fleeing into an icy river.

After authorities recovered two bodies -- and searched for a third -- ethnic Albanians and Serbs gathered near the bridge over the Ibar River that divides Kosovska Mitrovica, long the flashpoint of tensions in the province. The two sides traded insults, threw rocks and charged at each other before gunfire rang out.

The province itself is U.N.-administered but remains part of Serbia-Montenegro, the successor state to Yugoslavia, with its final status to be decided by the United Nations. But the lack of movement on the status question has left postwar tensions boiling.

The Kosovo war ended in mid-1999 after the NATO air campaign drove Serb-dominated troops loyal to former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic out of the province and stopped a crackdown on the independence-minded Kosovo Albanian majority.
 
The drowning of those boys is terrible but it is only a motive to start alredy prepared and organized attack against Serbs.Isn't it a litle wierd that "retribution" is being conducted with such sinhronization all over Kosovo?

And no,i'm not in Kosovo,i'm in Belgrade.Although i'd like to go there and defend homeland.
 
Living on edge would make it easier to reach for the pistol and fire away.

This is a society with a high insecurity. THe greater your insecurity the greater you are likely to take precautions to overcome uncertainties. So you probably already know who your friends are, what groups will form, who is keeping weapons, who you can trust and who you should whack.

The greater the insecurity the greater and more rapid the escalation. A small event, leading to two groups arguing with each other, words are thrown, then stones, then bullets. Next thing you know someone gets on the phone and says, "Hey guess what just happened" because everyone is wired in- communication keeps you alert and aware and intelligence is important under high insecurity.

So the word is spread fast and next thing you know, everyone is getting anxious and tense and tension spreads across a society like a wildfire. Like a brush fire in the wind over a very dry field, a small fire in one place can spread sparks that light up fires in many places and thus starts the inferno.

For an example see Rwanda.

There was a good article done so years ago that asked the question of why there was such violent ethnic conflict in Yugoslavia after Yugoslavs had spent so many years living with each other peacefully. The article, titled I think "The Banality of Ethnic COnflict" (I think it appears in International Security) looked at some of the events leading to the conflict.

What it found was that a number of the political leaders let some of the criminal out of jail, formed mobs that spread fear against targetted ethnic communities and members of their own ethnic community that would oppose the spread of violence. Thus people could not be neutral. If you didn't want to shoot the Serb/Croat/Muslim whatever that lived next to you, you could be shot. That played into the hands of the leaders because it created the classic "Us" vs. "them" distinction.

And that's the thing about ethnic conflict- It's not living with people of different ethnicities that's the problem. Much of the world lives in multi-ethnic societies. It's not even hating the other ethnicities that's the problem. Much of the world that is multi-ethnic has prejudices. It's something more that makes people pick up the gun, hoe, axe or knife and go after the person next door simply because they worship a different God or have a different national orientation.

That's also the problem with Kosovo- It's supposed to go back to Serbia. But if it does, conflict will begin again and the Kosovars know it. So the Kosovars want to be autonomous and the Serbs don't want them to go. The Kosovars want the status quo to be recognized legally- that Kosovo is autonomous and independent. That's a bad precedent though, because what if every minority wants it's own stretch of dirt as a homeland?

That's the problem. Stopping war and bloodshed does not equate to making peace, at least not a long-term peace.
 
I am with Grim on this one. Seems kind of odd that one tiny incidint can blow up this quickly, with this ferocity. And I actually hope the Serbs are able to retaliate against this, this is tragic.
 
I am not saying that Grim is totally wrong either, but what I am saying is that it would be natural for both ethnicities to be on edge and that both should ratchet up the escalation quickly if things look like they are about to go to shit.

But a guy sends his dog after a couple of kids (oldest age 12?) that are pissing him off, the kids run into the lake and drown, does not seem to be an appropriate trigger for a conspiracy to ignite the resumption of ethnic conflict. Assassinating a Kosavar political leader, blowing up the head quarters of a Kosovar headquarters- yes. A couple kids drowning is because some asshole sent a dog after them is enough to piss off a few people and cause a mob scene, though.

So I doubt the conspiracy theory, but the rapid escalation makes sense.

In Mauritius a few years ago there were some major riots because a black singer got killed in a police cell. The act was enough to piss off people, enough to inflame hostilities and motivate people to get nasty. But a planned event? No. If anything it was just evidence that there was a lot of ethnic tension in the society.
 
So I doubt the conspiracy theory, but the rapid escalation makes sense.

The UÇK has a story of stirring up serbian forces to provoke them into retaliations against civilians, to gather international support, that`s true, but i`m sorry Grim but i`m not buying it in this case. All the reports from the western media and from observers on location that i`ve seen tell the typical story of bullies making a stupid move in a zone of ethnic tension, creating an escalation. It wasn`t the first time this happened from both sides, if it shows something is how the tension has risen without the international community being able, once again, to take steps towards pacification on the right timing, since it has been distracted with other pressing matters.

People in Kosovo and Serbia are forgetting the mutually hurting stalemate they were into, as many times happen, i hope the international forces will be able to salvage something, but how they can do it effectively with the movements towards radicalization from a few forces inside Kosovo on the albanian side and the lack of restraint in the discourse of the new Serbian government, together with the rise of the nationalistic parties makes me quite worried regarding the future.
 
Kharn said:
Blade Runner said:
I saw a mosque going up in flames

Not a mosque, an Orthodox church

No, "beterweter", what I saw on the news was most definitely a mosque in flames. You might not think so, but I do know the difference between those two. Instead of attacking each and every gddmn thing I say, you should check your sources again: there has been set fire to Orthodox churches AND mosques, and what I saw on the news, my dear friend, was indeed a MOSQUE. :evil:

Then again, of course, read my sig: I am not young enough to know everything. But apparently you are. :evil:
 
Blade Runner, what is the diffirence? In this area, a signifigant amount of the Mosques used to be Churches or where built in the exact same style. Hell, just look at St. Savior in Chora. One of the most important Churches in Constantinople at it's time, and is now an important Mosque.
 
No he is right.We set on fire 2 mosques-one in Belgrade and one in Nis.This is great shame for us Serbs,but it was done by huligans and it was done because of anger.

BUT!!!

You cannot equal this with the crimes on Kosovo like the CNN is trying to do.
 
I just got a mail from a friend pointing to a newsbit where a NATO officer says he has no doubts that the pro albanian side is trying to conduct some ethnic cleansing with the excuse of the provocation that was made, you may be onto something Grim, i still need more info though.
 
Meh.

WW1 was preceded by a lot of nationalist propaganda (Panslavism, Pangermanism) and militarism before going off. The assassination in Sarajevo was just the spark that ignited the powder keg.

So no. For a small event to blow up, you need sufficient powder in the keg. In any case, yesterday's violence didn't happen out of nowhere. AFAIK there were wars over the same dumb shit in that place since the 16 century.

As long as you have nationalism...
 
Actually, the origins of the Croation kingdom where religious strife. After they are fully out of the Byzantine Empire in the proto-Comneni period, they are left in the same situation Hungary was until quite recently- an overwhelming majority of Orthodox citizens with a Catholic elite. Hence Croatia was literally built upon this shit.
 
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