KotOR 1 + 2 Question Poll

[The Vault Dweller]

Ok so I've played KotOR 1 with a light and dark side character and just finished 2 with a light side character. I'm going to start a dark side character later, but for now I need to post my basic thoughts and ask a "serious" question.

Opinion:

I loved the game. I'm not only surprised that KotOR 2 wasn't worse than KotOR 1 (sequels tend to decline in quality), but in fact it was better and quite a bit so. Crafting items was fun and rewarding. The game world was a bit longer and larger than the first.

What really got me though was the somewhat stressful character interactions and decisions. Having my party members not only comment, but react to me made for some very thoughtful decisions.

As much as I liked the ending I was totally under the impression it could have and was intended to be a lot longer. I'm glad they let you know the fates of the planets you visited, but that they only told you and didn't "show" you was disappointing. I guess I should just be glad that they did though. Also having your character not specifically go anywhere let you decide what happened depending on the side you chose. Why not just show different ending videos based on your alignment?

I hate to complain since I loved it so much, but like most great RPG's there are always a few glaring flaws or things that with a little more work could be so much better.

Kria...sheesh I won't forget a character like her.

Question:

[spoiler:2cf13c86c8]In both KotOR 1 and 2 there are strong and sudden plot-twists as are normal in the SW universe. However I saw neither KotOR 1's twist (you are Revan brainwashed by the Jedi after being captured) or KotOR 2's twist (Kria was Revan all along) before they make it obvious to you.

Did the writers do a great job or am I just a fool like Atton?

So my question is how many of you knew the twists before they were made obvious and of those who knew how many were certain and who just made an educated guess.

I for one had absolutely no idea of either.[/spoiler:2cf13c86c8]

By the way. I really hope at some point in the future of SW games you can kill a hut. I know the chances were low, but I was hoping it would happen in KotOR 2. You see, because they're always doing evil things and always one of those "mastermind giving-orders" type characters I absolutely loathe them. Also they're so fat I bet if you sliced one open with your lightsaber the innards would flood the room. That would be funny.

 

[x'il]

What really got me though was the somewhat stressful character interactions and decisions. Having my party members not only comment, but react to me made for some very thoughtful decisions.

Yeah, it was one of the best things about kotor 2.

As much as I liked the ending I was totally under the impression it could have and was intended to be a lot longer.

Me too. It was not until recently that i learned that the game was severely cut because of time issues or something.

[spoiler:78791a6042]I always wondered what the hell happened to the rest of my companion npc's when you get to malachor V.[/spoiler:78791a6042]

I also learned of a kotor 2 restoration project on the works, let's hope it gets completed.

(...) Why not just show different ending videos based on your alignment?

I think this was one of the unfinished things that got cut/never made.

[spoiler:78791a6042]However I saw neither KotOR 1's twist (you are Revan brainwashed by the Jedi after being captured) or KotOR 2's twist (Kria was Revan all along) before they make it obvious to you. [/spoiler:78791a6042]

[spoiler:78791a6042]Kotor 1's twist i saw a mile away before the "revelation" part (or at least, suspected it).

Now, Kotor 2 hasn't really a big twist like that. What you're saying about kotor 2 is wrong: Kreia is not Revan.[/spoiler:78791a6042]

 

[The Vault Dweller]

[spoiler:9ed519effb]Kotor 1's twist i saw a mile away before the "revelation" part (or at least, suspected it).

Now, Kotor 2 hasn't really a big twist like that. What you're saying about kotor 2 is wrong: Kreia is not Revan.[/spoiler:9ed519effb]

WHAT?!

I could have sworn she said she was when she confronted the re-assembled Jedi council at Dantooine. Then again I have noticed that the upswings in the music in KotOR 2 often caused me to miss a few words of dialogue now and then. Even after increasing the voice volume by 1/4th and decreasing the music and sound effects by 1/3.

I'll look it up on youtube.

 

[Pablosdog]

^ he's right

"Canon-wise" Revan was actually a male Jedi Guardian, who simply at the time was corrupted so he could find a power strong enough to combat the one true Sith.

I like Kotor 2, I really did. I just liked Kotor 1 a bit more. The unfinished ending, coupled with the unresolved plot points made the game just a bit less satisfying than Kotor 1.

Hk is a great character though.

and to answer your question, The Revan twist was a little more surprising to me then Kreia's was, but that might be because I played Kotor 1 at a much younger age(I'm 22 now, and it came out in 04? I believe)

It's hard to imagine it's been out for more than 5 years now.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Kriea was Revan's master when he was a Jedi.


Kriea became a super-nihilist and wanted to destroy everything for the good intentions of preventing the misery that the force causes.

 

[The Vault Dweller]

Ok I just realised what happened. It took over a half hour of searching and watching, but I saw a video walkthrough of the jedi council scene from a light side perspective and I was misled.

Kria mentions becoming stronger and Master Vrook replies "Is this your new master exile? If so you follow Revan's path..."

I should have thought of "Revan's path" meant generally as the way to the dark side, but I took it literally to mean that Kria was Revan. I feel so dumb.

Also all my searching was worth it just to see this:

[spoiler:ca8ed6048b][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqckJ9PUpC8&feature=fvw[/youtube][/spoiler:ca8ed6048b]

 

[Ravager69]

Oh my God! I didn't know Revan started a career in show-bussines.

Gotta love that song.

 

[JayGrey]

If I remember, they delibertly made Revan unisex in this sequal, to branch off of KOTOR1 (if I'm remembering the characters correctly).

Only thing I really didn't like about KOTOR 1 was the repitition of art assets. In KOTOR 2, after the third planet, I exuasted about all of my party's conversation options, resorting to using them as turrets and mules -- who liked to bicker between each other now and then.

Good games, though.


But HK was ever so bestest of all.

 

[Kilus]

At Peragus you get to set Revan's Gender and dark/light side. It changes what cameos from the first game you get to see.

Anyway the canon Revan is light side male and The Exile is light side female

 

[Kyuu]

KotOR 2 really is the better game. I liked KotOR 1, don't get me wrong (and I'll admit, I didn't see the twist coming either, though of course I felt like a dumbass in hindsight). However, KotOR 2 is an incomplete game. A victim of a rushed release.

Been waiting on Team Gizka to complete their restoration for forever. Hoping against hope that it doesn't become vaporware. There is a competing restoration effort that's recently started up, and is likely to be completed relatively quickly. However, it's not going to be nearly as thorough and high-quality as what Team Gizka has done.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

The game world was a bit longer and larger than the first.

Hmm KotOR2 always seemed smaller to me. Maybe it's because you have to revisit several planets and even though you do get to visit new locations, they are virtually the same as what you've already seen.

KotOR 2 really is the better game.

I have to disagree with you there. KotOR2 has some gameplay improvements but otherwise it's the poorer game. Not just because it's rushed and incomplete but because it's story just doesn't fit the setting and with it's reuse of locations and pale imitations of the original characters make it seem more like a fan made mod than a proper sequel. And don't get me started on the compulsory play as a companion element, not once not twice but at least six times (seven if you count the tutorial). I don't know about any one else but when I play an RPG I want to play my character not every tom dick and harry.

 

[Sander]

I have to disagree with you there. KotOR2 has some gameplay improvements but otherwise it's the poorer game. Not just because it's rushed and incomplete but because it's story just doesn't fit the setting and with it's reuse of locations and pale imitations of the original characters make it seem more like a fan made mod than a proper sequel. And don't get me started on the compulsory play as a companion element, not once not twice but at least six times (seven if you count the tutorial). I don't know about any one else but when I play an RPG I want to play my character not every tom dick and harry.

While the story indeed does not fit the setting, the story itself and the way it plays is done much better than the original. The characters also aren't imitations of the originals, Kreia and Visas are unique at least.

Lucasarts has never been too strict with the setting of the Expanded Universe anyway.

 

[Verd1234]

KotOR 2 really is the better game. I liked KotOR 1, don't get me wrong (and I'll admit, I didn't see the twist coming either, though of course I felt like a dumbass in hindsight). However, KotOR 2 is an incomplete game. A victim of a rushed release.

Been waiting on Team Gizka to complete their restoration for forever. Hoping against hope that it doesn't become vaporware. There is a competing restoration effort that's recently started up, and is likely to be completed relatively quickly. However, it's not going to be nearly as thorough and high-quality as what Team Gizka has done.

well, an unfinished version of Team Gizka's mod was leaked onto the Internet much to the wrath of Team Gizka.... I don't know where you can find it but it should be around the Internet somewhere...

I wouldn't feel bad about playing through the unfinished Leaked mod as it is free and just as legal as any other mod(very legal).

Meh, I don't even know if Gizka will ever finish their mod so the leaked version may be the best we get....and it is free and legal too...

Also, I know the story doesn't fit Star Wars, I still loved Kotor 2's setting far more than that of the original KOTOR...

 

[Kyuu]

As Sander said, the way the story in KotOR 2 plays out, the way everything is constructed, and the characters are all definitely superior to the first.

Whether or not it "fits" the Star Wars universe is highly debatable, of course, but I don't really see what the issue is. What does KotOR 2 have that doesn't "fit," exactly?

well, an unfinished version of Team Gizka's mod was leaked onto the Internet much to the wrath of Team Gizka...

I wouldn't say there was "wrath." Team Gizka was irked and refused to support anyone who encountered issues, but I'd say that's pretty natural.

The leaked mod itself is quite unfinished and has game-stopping bugs, so I don't see much point in even bothering with it. Plus, I find it ethically objectionable to condone the thievery even by the proxy of simply using it. It's not "illegal" per se, far as I'm aware, but my ethics are not limited to what the government says is legal or not.

Whether or not it will ever be "finished" (finished meaning in a state that Dashus deems is sufficient for a public release), who knows. I think so, but I can understand anyone who might believe otherwise. If not, there is that competing restoration that probably will come out in the (somewhat) near future.

 

[Sander]

As Sander said, the way the story in KotOR 2 plays out, the way everything is constructed, and the characters are all definitely superior to the first.

Whether or not it "fits" the Star Wars universe is highly debatable, of course, but I don't really see what the issue is. What does KotOR 2 have that doesn't "fit," exactly?

Debated to death in the thread requiem linked, but it comes down to a mature and ambiguous morality in a universe that has absolute morality built into it.

 

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

While the story indeed does not fit the setting, the story itself and the way it plays is done much better than the original.

When the story doesn't fit the setting how can it be done much better? If you changed it to a more appropriate setting then yes it would much more enjoyable. This is one for those who like making comics, take some screenshots of Star Trek Deep Space 9, specifically of Julian Bashir and Elim Garak together. In the speech bubbles add one of the converstations between the Exile and Kriea, give Julian the Exile's lines and Garak Kriea's. Change any mention of the force to the prime directive, the Jedi Council to Star Fleet, the Republic to the Federation and Darth Nihilus to the Borg. I'm betting the dialogue still holds together and makes sense, perhaps even more so than the original.

The characters also aren't imitations of the originals, Kreia and Visas are unique at least.

Atton is but a young Carth if he'd gone to the dark side, Visas is a combination of Dark Side Bastilla redeemed but with a healthy dollop of Juhani's humble pie. Mira and Hanharr are a twisted dark side version of Mission and Zaalbar, Kriea herself steps into Jolee Bindo's enigmatic grey Jedi shoes.

 

[Kyuu]

Debated to death in the thread requiem linked, but it comes down to a mature and ambiguous morality in a universe that has absolute morality built into it.

Well I think the whole point of KotOR 2's story (or possibly just Kreia in particular) was to explore the possibility that the Jedi and the Sith don't have absolute dominion over what the Force is or isn't. The Jedi have their code, and the Sith have their opposition to it, but I'd say it's quite possible that you could introduce the concept that the Force isn't just what the Jedi Code makes of it.

Also, if you read up on some of the Expanded Universe material, you'll see that similar veins crop up. Luke Skywalker doesn't follow the strict path of the Jedi Code. He in fact "falls" to the Dark Side at one point and then comes back up out of it (which isn't supposed to really be possible). Then, later, he gets married.

All that is getting into borderline tangent territory, but the point is, I don't think it's "inappropriate" to the setting to explore a more complex perspective on the Force. It's quite a breath of fresh air, really, to see a more mature and developed look taken at the whole concept of it.

Just because the Jedi say the Force is this and this, doesn't mean that's all there can be to it and that's that. Which is the point.

 

[Phil the Nuka-Cola Dude]

Not to break up this debate or anything, but has anyone in here got this to run on a modern system? I'm running into the "can't move after combat" bug 9/10 times here where I'm frozen for a good 10-20 seconds every time combat ends (Can look around, but can't move with WASD). The same thing happened in the first KOTOR as well, although very rare and never lasted more than a few seconds. It's pretty much made the game unplayable (which is unfortunate, since I'm less than 20 minutes in), because having to save and load after every single fight pretty much kills the experience.

Google tells me that I'm not alone with this issue, and it occurs on xp as well as vista. None of the "fixes" offered worked.

The fixes included turning on Vsync or forcing Vsync through drivers. Setting the game to run on a single core, and disabling vertex buffer objects. I've tried XP and 2000 compatibility modes as well. No dice.

Any ideas?

 

[Ravager69]

If you can't move after combat the quickest way is to quicksave\quickload. I know it's annoying, but it works at least.

 

[Sander]

When the story doesn't fit the setting how can it be done much better? If you changed it to a more appropriate setting then yes it would much more enjoyable. This is one for those who like making comics, take some screenshots of Star Trek Deep Space 9, specifically of Julian Bashir and Elim Garak together. In the speech bubbles add one of the converstations between the Exile and Kriea, give Julian the Exile's lines and Garak Kriea's. Change any mention of the force to the prime directive, the Jedi Council to Star Fleet, the Republic to the Federation and Darth Nihilus to the Borg. I'm betting the dialogue still holds together and makes sense, perhaps even more so than the original.

I'm saying that the story is pretty good if you look at it without the burden of established Star Wars lore that you don't encounter in the game.

Atton is but a young Carth if he'd gone to the dark side, Visas is a combination of Dark Side Bastilla redeemed but with a healthy dollop of Juhani's humble pie. Mira and Hanharr are a twisted dark side version of Mission and Zaalbar, Kriea herself steps into Jolee Bindo's enigmatic grey Jedi shoes.

Kreia is much, much more complex than Jolee Bindo and plays a wholly different role.

I don't see how Visas is derived from Bastila at all.

But yes, if you're going to look for similarities, they're going to be there, as it's nearly impossible to create wholly unique characters.

All that is getting into borderline tangent territory, but the point is, I don't think it's "inappropriate" to the setting to explore a more complex perspective on the Force. It's quite a breath of fresh air, really, to see a more mature and developed look taken at the whole concept of it.

Except that, again, this is strictly prohibited by Star Wars lore. The Force is divided into dark and light, and the dark side corrupts absolutely. Star Wars was built on a simplistic good vs evil conflict, to change that is to abandon Star Wars.

Whether or not another perspective might be interesting, it breaks with the setting.