Location based death animations/real time rendered injuries

F

fallout_expert105

First time out of the vault
I'm sorry if this subject has already been discussed, I've checked, but if I've missed something I apologize to the moderators. I was wondering if anyone here agrees on location based death animations? I've grown bored of shooting someone in the eye with a semi-automatic 5.56x45mm nato rifle and blowing off half their torso.

In my opinion I think if I kill someone via head shots I should blow apart or blow off their head completely, if it's arm shots rip their arm(s) off etc. Also this would work well with real time rendered bullet holes, gashes, mortal injuries sustained in combat. I would really love to see blood all over an enemy or my character if we got shot, or injured in combat.


Being able to target key locations of the body opens up all kinds of possibilities blow off a guy's hand watch his gun fly through the air. Of course there should be certain exceptions (seeing 4 gunshot wounds on a guy's head looks ridiculous).
 
Ok buddy, since i kinda like you...

You have to think of everything in a game developing sense, the typical point here is, not enough time...

There are basically two gore animations that i know of that include taking away the torso and splitting the body in half... then you have the being fried with plasma gun one, the going up in smoke with alien gun one, and the burning to death with flamethrower one...

now, If they made an animation for losing an arm/head/leg/etc... all individually it would just take way too damn long. So thats probably why its not in there.

Edit: and please, use paragraphs man
Same with the other stuff, the artists just dont have enough time to do all this... or else they probably would
 
Um yeah, ok, thanks anyway. But I was talking about these individual features for a 3D graphics engine, everyone knows Bethesda isn't going to make a 2D Fallout 3. Are you sure it isn't possible with a 3D graphics engine? I appreciate your kindness by the way.
 
It is of course possible, and much much much easier than with a "d engine, but it's still time consuming, and still not nessaceary and thus, not likely they'll do it(even though I wouldn't mind seeing it)
 
Yes, it's possible, but it relies on as-of-yet unknown factors like what sort of graphics, physics engine, and game system Bethesda decides to use.

I actually posted an almost identical thread on the old Interplay boards after I played the original Soldier of Fortune, and if I remember right, the people there tore me a new asshole and said it wouldn't work.
 
oh, it would work... its just a matter of time...

Doing it on a 3d engine would most likely take just as long as on a 2d engine.

Becuase.... The time consuming point on a 2d engine is making all the animations and on a 3d engine you have to seperate the bone and arm mesh from the model, create a particle explosion that has blood uvw mapping, and animate every singe particle in the explosion.

You then have to make seperate animations for what a character would do without an arm... he doesnt have to die, he could still fight with his left arm if you shot the right one off, same with his legs...

You cant just take an arm off and use the pre-defined animations of characters that have arms, everything has to be seperate becuase of the way most 3d engines work.

So, instead of doing 5 death animations, 2 gore, 2 plasma, 1 flame, you would have to make somewhere near 30... for everything. This applies in 2d and 3d, so... its just pointless

Then, if you want the blood to affect the walls/floor/people you have to create an entire system in the program that controls UVW manipulation in-game, which is not an easy task, and it would most likely consume a lot of computer resources as well.

Either way, 2d or 3d, I would rather see the modelers creating badass cities, enemies, quests, stories, a great plot, etc... Which would actually make the game worth playing.

If it doesnt have all the correct death animations, i wont be disappointed, as long as it has everything else.
 
After witnessing Bethesda's new engine I'm confident that they'll probably have everything you just mentioned. Bethesda will most likely use the Oblivion engine for Fallout 3 and I think that tech will make it much easier. Just a theory though no actual proof to say it will be easier, so please don't bite my head off... :lol:
 
I'm not trying to bite your head off here, i'm just trying to explain to you the depth of what your asking for.

These things cannot simply be done, they take time and hard work. You should research free modeling tools on the internet and start making your own models... try making a model of a pepsi can... and see how long it takes you to make it look realistic and nice

And I know Bethesda probably has the tech to do all this, shit... I have the tech on my own computer. But I'm straining the time consumption that a "little" project like this would take... its not so little.

I'm not biting your head of buddy, just explaining it to ya.
 
I know, you're being very nice to me and thanks for the explaination, I was just saying. But yeah I get what you're talking about. Maybe I'll think of something else.
 
This would be a very nice detail. On the plus side, Bethesda is known for taking their time making games (plus they don't have a publisher breathing down their necks) - so it's really a matter of whether they want it in the game rather than the amount of work involved in doing it.
 
Localizing a gunshot wound is probably fairly easy. You just have to animate a puff of red. Beyond that, I'm sure it gets progresively harder.

Anyways, a little off topic, but I think Fallout, even if they do go the FP route, needs to have death animations. The modern fp trend is rag doll corpses. I don't know how they plan on doing it, but they definitely need some gory death scenes.
 
One of the main things to consider is whether (even if it goes FP) it will remain turn-based and dice based.

If you think it will use the new Elder Scrolls engine (which it probably will), that's real time, but still die based. In Morrowind if you hit a creature with an arrow, some of the arrows would stay in. I'm sure the new engine is more capable of doing things like that, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

But as far as actual death animations go, I'm not too sure how that would work out. I'm hoping some of you 3D animators could help me out here.

Say there are location based injures: you shoot a deathclaw in the eyes, his eyes bleed; in the foot, he starts limping; etc. Now, is it possible to have a specific animation for the death that doesn't look too cheesy? Say you take the Bloody Mess perk and pound away at someone's face with spiked knuckles: his eyes get black, head gets cut and bruised, then you kill him and there's an animation where he explodes. Will this be possible without looking bad?
 
satanisgreat9 said:
Now, is it possible to have a specific animation for the death that doesn't look too cheesy? Say you take the Bloody Mess perk and pound away at someone's face with spiked knuckles: his eyes get black, head gets cut and bruised, then you kill him and there's an animation where he explodes. Will this be possible without looking bad?
Click to expand...

Of course - many FPS's have death animations already, though maybe not to an advanced degree or long enough in duration that you'd notice. The main factor in the over-the-top stuff is what sort of physics engine they're going to use - if it's one that does allow chopped off limbs the rest is doable. Look up the game "Die By The Sword" - it allowed you to hack off your opponents leg, and he would still come hopping after you. Chop off an arm and he'll pick up a sword with the other. And this is a game from around 5 years ago, too. Soldier of Fortune II had it as well, and I've heard people mention similar things about a game called "Rune" though I haven't played it myself. I don't know about explosions or "plasma gun meltdown" effects though, that's probably a little beyond what 3D games are capable of now.

As far as having damage show up on the character model goes though, many games have that already so it's not like they'd really need to break new ground to put it in.
 
Rune was gory as shit. You could almost quite literally beat your opponents head in. Blood spray everywhere, it was awesome and added to the 'Viking' feel of the game. And I'm sure Beth will take their time and add at least a few death animations in there. And as cool as it would be, I'm still doubting it will be FP.

0.02c :)
 
satanisgreat9 said:
One of the main things to consider is whether (even if it goes FP) it will remain turn-based and dice based.
Click to expand...

Please man, if its not turn based or dice based its not fallout

satanisgreat9 said:
If you think it will use the new Elder Scrolls engine (which it probably will), that's real time, but still die based. In Morrowind if you hit a creature with an arrow, some of the arrows would stay in. I'm sure the new engine is more capable of doing things like that, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
Click to expand...

Who knows if it will use the elder scrolls engine, and if they do... the elder scroll engine really sucks and would need great modification and improvement to make for a fallout looking game. Please, for the love of god stay away from Fallout being Real Time or even First Person, presenting arguments for these things which promotes them will get you banned

satanisgreat9 said:
But as far as actual death animations go, I'm not too sure how that would work out. I'm hoping some of you 3D animators could help me out here.
Click to expand...

Please, read the rest of the posts it is thoroughly explained within them

satanisgreat9 said:
Say there are location based injures: you shoot a deathclaw in the eyes, his eyes bleed; in the foot, he starts limping; etc. Now, is it possible to have a specific animation for the death that doesn't look too cheesy? Say you take the Bloody Mess perk and pound away at someone's face with spiked knuckles: his eyes get black, head gets cut and bruised, then you kill him and there's an animation where he explodes. Will this be possible without looking bad?
Click to expand...

Location based injuries are possible, which merely changes the UVW mapping to account for a damaged look. In response to fallout_expert's ideas i assumed he wanted kill scenes, which would need to be fully animated.

The thing with the knuckles is a realistic idea, but his head exploding from such is perhaps just stupid and would look very bad.
 
MethidParadox said:
Who knows if it will use the elder scrolls engine, and if they do... the elder scroll engine really sucks and would need great modification and improvement to make for a fallout looking game. Please, for the love of god stay away from Fallout being Real Time or even First Person, presenting arguments for these things which promotes them will get you banned
Click to expand...
Say what? No it won't. Unless you turn out to be a stubborn little clueless asshole, but stating and sensibly arguing your position won't get you banned. Sheesh.
 
In one of the interviews i read on this site Bethseda said they'll be using a brand new engine and not the one used to make morrowind.
They also gave the impression that they wish to be faithful to the original fallout/fallout2 desighn so i doubt very mutch it'll be in first person.I really hope they go for a rich detailed '3D that looks like 2D' with groovy lighting and shadows.
 
that "brand new engine" is most probably the one they're using to make Oblivion... Of course even if that's so I think the camera should be fixed in the same old FO way... and pleeeeeeaaassseee no change rotation sort of thing... I want to concentrate on my character when I play FO... I don't want to play the camera in the game... I want to play the character....
 
How many times have we seen that sig here?...

Yeesh.


Addendum: Possible expansion on the location based damage, and "losing" limbs. Add a cyber-doc to replace lost limbs with cybernetic ones. Varying in tech level of course, low cost ones with actuators, and levers on the outside of it. Up to super high tech that look like real ones. Weapon replacement arms would be kinda cool also.

Dunno how much I'd like it in Fallout 3. Just my $.02.
 
Hmmm, I dont think they we will see true dismemberfest because after the fight it would be really hard to explain how did u grow a new arm/leg? Without havin that dog? It would be nice to have some plutonium pills :twisted:
 
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