Mac and PC

my mouse cost me like 50 euro's 5 years ago.
my keyboard cost me 11 euro's 5 years ago.

either way, i'm happy with the investment, as i work with my pc a lot (and game a lot). the ergonomics arent lost on me.
 
House Of Cards

House Of Cards





Have had both platforms available for years.
Used hardware, cheap acquisitions, so not possible to render the latest --shiny--.
Haven't cared to "pay to play"' the leading edge of the gaming market.

Where are you all saving money, if you are upgrading your PC hardware every year? Ram, hard drives, video cards churning the bank account to keep up with the blooming frame rates of the leading edge. You can't keep up with PC games unless you up grade. You can't keep a Windows platform operating with out anti this and that software, with out constant file / registry maintenance.

You want the most performance out of your mother board so you "pay to play".

Fine. That's why PC's are great, the custom build, that $100 upgrade that let's you play Gothic 3 at above medium settings. F'ing MUSCLE carz.

Can nickel and dime your way to hundreds of extra dollars, AND you're following your passion.

You get the PERFORMANCE you pay for .

Games and the internet trash and the average half ass BLOATED Windows programing turn a custom system into a "house of cards"'. Back up back up back up, because the next install might evoke the blue screen of death.

"House of cards"' ready to blow down if you don't CONSTANTLY maintain virus and fire wall protection, AND a good registry cleaner to purge the bloat.

Bet you are willing to f-disk and reinstall as many times as it takes.

I am not.

I bought proprietary hardware with a stabile OS. Been using the same laptop for over three years. Out of the box two monitor support is the true Mac trade mark to me. Utility stuff. On line stuff. Replayed the FO's. The games available are limited and that's why I have a couple of 'behind the curve' PC's for Warhammer 40,000. With a new video card, a 3 or 4 year old mother board can play a lot of PC games. I've got the desk space.

You are seriously debating the one button mouse.

Why?

No, i know you all counter and parry as a matter of style and presentation.

Let me remind you that since Steve Job's returned, Mac's have been constantly moving to exploit the economy of scale of the PC hardware market.

That was years ago.

To me the one button mouse is a superficial, a red herring issue when considering Mac's vs. PC's. .

In the past, the typical over designed MAC mouse would be a joke, but it's so iconic it's not even a TOY! An ergonomic challenge and border line useless.
I did not buy a Mac for the mouse!
The typical MS BRAND mouse is usually on sale and worth the difference over most no name bargains.
This one button mouse debate is fine for you all, but I haven't used a one button mouse since a Mac could sport a USB port.
No special drivers, the MS BRAND USB mouse worked. Imagine that. No need to up date drivers every 6 to 9 months. imagine that.

You all are on the right track when discussing perceived color spectrums, and bang for the buck hardware performance.

Those were not my criteria.

I find the Mac OS 10 less cluttered. More reliable.



You want a crotch rocket, buy one.

You want a utility vehicle, get a light pick up.








4too
 
duckman said:
Oh, and Macs and PCs have different default gamma levels, so this may affect the obvious "softproof" on the screen.

I'm sure this has gone off topic enough, but I think Macs are far better for graphical purposes and PCs are not, in my experience using both types of OS.
...
The only real advantage Macs have is a 'better' default gamma level and then you claim they're much better? Whoa.
Note that Macs and PCs are *exactly* the same in every way except for the OS these days. Exactly. So the Mac has no advantages on any graphical level over the PC.
 
Ah, Sander. I only said that they have a different gamma level, not that they are better because of the gamma level. And I went to say it would affect the softproof, NOT that it was better. Jeez man. You tell other people to read their own posts, why don't you?

They (Macs and PCs etc) are basically the same, but all I was expressing was my opinion based on the Operating System... :roll:

EDIT:

@ 4too

I find OSX much more reliable, too, when dealing with graphics software than Windows, for example. When we use QuarkXPress or Photoshop, there was much more down time with Windows than there was with OSX.
 
duckman said:
Ah, Sander. I only said that they have a different gamma level, not that they are better because of the gamma level. And I went to say it would affect the softproof, NOT that it was better. Jeez man. You tell other people to read their own posts, why don't you?
I read the post, duckman. The only arguments you gave were 'gamma level' and that the interface was better. I deduced that the interface argument was bullshit, since the interface is exactly the same for Adobe's products under both Windows and Mac OS X (and yes, I've used both).
So I assumed your only argument was the gamma level.
 
Nah, it wasn't, it was just tacked on at the end :P

And the interface I was talking about was just the general use of the OS's, not the individual products from Adobe.
 
duckie said:
I'm sure this has gone off topic enough, but I think Macs are far better for graphical purposes


Sigh.

As I said, it's *completely irrelevant* since there are RGB coded printers, and graphic editing programs can use or emulate sRGB, RGB, CMY, CMYK and other color-coding. I work with these things, you know?

The relation original picture-monitor-print also has a lot to do with your monitor.
 
Macs aren't always more expensive than PCs. Now a days I'm pretty sure they're about equal in price (infact I just configured a Dell and Apple to equal specs and the dell was about $400 more) All you have to remember is DONT BUY RAM FROM APPLE because it's expensive as hell.

I like Macs because I don't have to deal with defragging my HD or shitty anti-virus software (which I’m told has become almost a non-problem since I last owned a PC) or corrupt drivers or a bunch of other superfluous archaic garbage. It's not that everything "just works", it doesn't. But everything does seem to work allot better and smoother.

As for the single button mouse thing... I'm not a fan. They've since replaced it with the "Might Mouse" but honestly, the mighty mouse is a $50 piece of shit. Half the time, the scroll ball doesn't even respond. May be fewer inputs is more elegant or whatever, but as someone who uses programs like Photoshop and Light Wave, I'm a HUGE fan of hot keys. It seems that if my left hand can handle so many keys why can't my right hand help out a little? I am right handed after all. At any rate, I need to get a new mouse so that I can use more Exposé buttons (using the "F" keys blows)

I understand that allot of people are anti-Mac because allot of Mac users tend to be elitist jerks. But not all of us ;)

A lesser community would have degraded to an ignorant flame war by now.
 
DirtyDreamDesigner said:
Macs are inferior due to one simple reason;

No games.

That is all.

Heh, if macs played more games I'd get one, but seeing they don't, that means they are inferior dammit!
 
bootcamp simply makes it dual boot. what does that solve? you still have to shutdown Mac OS & load XP...
 
what kinda of argument is that?

"Mac OS X is fine because Mac users can play games once they buy a copy of Windows XP"?

pretty much all other desktop OS' support dual boot. Mac was the last big player to conform (due to once holding onto "other" architecture for their hardware, but no longer).
 
You're right, but I guess the Mac fans will just argue that PC gaming isn't everything to a computer and OS, and continue to make fun of XP and those who use it.
 
Move To The Center

Move To The Center





SuAside, you are correct. 'Boot Camp' is the new Mac software available, I think it's offered free 'beta' by Apple. It is a recent arrival.

The 'Power Mac' G4 processor had run it's useful, or rather, competitive course, especially for lap tops. Faster G4's were deemed too hot for the already infamous reputation of Power Book's to radiate uncomfortable levels of BTU's , too hot for the unprotected lap, i believe.
Mine sits on a (air) cooler stand so it can breathe.

Motorola and IBM had no new CPU development to offer, so enter Intel.

A dual bootable Mac platform was not possible until the move to the Intel Dual Processor. I think that's been in the last year.

Mac has been moving to exploit PC hardware for years. Now the CPU will be 'generic'. The world wide hardware market, economy of scale, has helped bust another proprietary monopoly. RAM is RAM, a hard drive - a hard drive. Common external interfaces: USB, firewire, ethernet, wireless.



In the Motorola Mac days, 8-chip / thirty pin RAM and Mac SCSI hard drives were ridiculously over priced. i think that Amiga's disappeared sooner because they had the same expensive CPU's, RAM, and SCSI hardware as Mac's. WTF. PC SCSI was some times 2 hundred dollars cheaper for the similar generic SCSI hard drive.

RECALL, the PC's of that era were nobody's sweet heart either. The marketers' consensus, the GROUP THINK was to exploit proprietary hardware. To this day I think Dell and HP want one hundred dollars labor (?) if you want a warren-teed RAM expansion beyond what they packaged in their factory. Right? If you stray outside of the mass produced bundle you generate enough extra charges that it's easy to justify custom building the rig yourself. That includes returning / exchanging any incompatible hardware.



In the past Windows was "emulated" on Mac's, so it was slow.
There ALWAYS was a niche market for Windows emulators. Certain applications have that appeal. These were the 'productivity' applications. Not games.

Over the years the Mac OS's increased their ability to handle Window's pic, text, and video files. I down load PC stuff to this Mac and transfer the files to my XP.

I would guess there are plenty of snobs that wear the MAC branding on their foreheads, and they are more than welcome to wallow in their utopian illusions. The one button mouse stereo type might apply there.

I personally know several Mac converts that are Windows refugees, and never looked back. Well, not REALLY, one has an XP set up like mine.

Why can't a utility computer be as dependable as any other appliance? Why was it such a bitch to install and run the Gothic 3 Demo on my XP machine. What ... LOVE HURTS? What, real gamers can deal with shoddy programing, dwindling QA, and eat their dead ..... What is this emo masochistic love feast with the difficulty of programming for the multitude of PC hardware configurations?

My experience. The Mac does the daily computer stuff, and the PC file system can be QUARANTINED from all the crap that will try to bloat the Windows platform. INCLUDING WINDOWS!


This 'Boot Camp' is a - real - execution of Windows XP so all the expensive (time and money) file protections will apply.
If one is careful with applications, and goes online as little as possible with the Windows partition, then it may be possible to exploit the best of the two OS's.

Rohit_N, compared to the previous Windows, XP has been fairly stable if you got the compatible hardware. Building custom PC's with SP 2 version was the easiest i ever had it. XP SP 2 has been good for me.

I think dual booting (and the hard ware that makes it possible) is seen as AN INNOVATION in the Mac media, and a welcome sign that the Mac OS will survive. How many here got an Amiga in the attic? Mac consumers should see it as an opportunity to get a faster, cheaper platform to operate the Mac OS.

Perhaps this move to the center will also help popularize other alternative, stable, OS's. I presume Linux has reliable versions.
Microsoft needs to aspire to some level of quality, instead of forever dwelling on market share. MS PC, Xbox, mp3 player, what's next a Microsoft microwave and bidet combo with GPS and call waiting, and will the bidet flush in your time zone when the HD TV is on?

One World, One Microsoft! Pinnacle of the consumer - marketer dialectic!

........................

Cloudy Vista's




Custom computer builders.

I have heard that Microsoft will tighten the allowable up grades for VISTA PC's.

I have made enough upgrades on XP machines to have had to call some Microsoft 'gatekeeper' and confirm that this copy of XP has been on only one PC. Might not have but limited upgrades until the PC is deemed NEW! MS has not clarified what the changes will be, right?

I have read concerns that those that custom build and upgrade may NOT have that freedom with VISTA they had with XP.

i think the up grade community includes` the game playing community, so this possible 'double billing' should concern us all.








4too
 
Re: Move To The Center

4too said:
Rohit_N, compared to the previous Windows, XP has been fairly stable if you got the compatible hardware. Building custom PC's with SP 2 version was the easiest i ever had it. XP SP 2 has been good for me.
I already have XP SP2 and have been using it for a while, and I agree that it is fairly stable (if you stay away from porn and warez sites). I wasn't defending Mac OS.
 
Communication Break Down

Communication Break Down




I have formed an image that contributers to this thread were accessing a limited well of experience, and have come forth to contribute my personal, limited, multi platform ''- blood - sweat - and tears --''.

I am seeking to establish the middle ground, allowing many neutral corners in this discussion.
The present market allows, conditionally, for the opportunity of several platforms to suit the individual's preference.

There still exists the promise of 'free speech', the perception of choice.

Having had to be my own mechanic to keep several 4 cylinder Japanese drive trains functional, associating the Windows HARDWARE platform with 'muscle carz' is a positive 'thang' in the high performance environment of PC gaming.
Will always wonder how my life would have changed, IF i would have sourced the mythic J.C. WHITNEY and included that high performance cam shaft when i had to replace that head gasket in the wintery environ of 1980's Rust Belted Toledo, Ohio .....

The NEED FOR SPEED is a worthy quest ...

Needless autobiographical illusion, sorry ....


A-hem ...


When the 'bargain' hardware got in sync with XP, it was a good time to be alive and building Windows systems for self, friends , and family.


Rohit_N, i wanted to let you know that this Mac OS user does not have delusions of grandeur. Why? Each platform has it's performance niche. Windows might be the better all around for ACCESS to the full spectrum of computer software, productivity and gaming, for work and for play, and i have chosen to move my routine - daily - platform to the Mac OS. Three feet away is a XP machine , enticing me with a screen saver slide show of some astounding european diva, (reminds me of 'one that got away'), at any minute i could decide to sample that hog of resources, that Gothic 3 Demo, and see why it may be deemed more RPG than BethSoft's Brand X title, by our brothers from another planet -- RPG Codex.

A-hem ...

If I could corrupt Bill Gates' divine capitalistic LUST for world wide monopoly, I would extend his behind the scenes support for the Mac market, superficially to sell MS Office, and Excel for Mac, ... I would have Micro Soft match each 'give away' Xbox 360 with a give away of a
Dual Core Mac Mini .....

Opps, gone tangential again ... so finally,

I wonder if the impact of viruses, trojans, and adware could be blunted if there were three OS's to filter the data steams, Windows, Mac, and Linux. A diverse DNA code. A diverse immune system. A diverse OS environment, may establish a stronger OS immune system.

One can but dream on ... , and vote for their chosen path with their dollars ....






4too
 
what a moron...

i think it's obvious some shit will be 'stolen'. you'll always use good ideas others have. everyone does, sometimes even without knowing it. is that bad?

but saying Windows stole a search function? gadgets/widgets already existed in Win XP with a plugin... and stole a chess game? wow, i was totally unaware that Mac invented chess!
 
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