Mass Effect and Fallout 3, the death of CRPGs?

O

override367

First time out of the vault
I was watching the videos for Mass Effect from E3, and the interviews, and while the game was quite impressive (and will still probably be good because it has a fairly deep storyline - bioware generally delivers), the interviewer asked "Is this game strictly RPG faire or will it have something for us action gamers as well?" (or something equally retarded". To my surprise the Bioware guy was like "Yea it's an action game but you can pause and give orders, so you can play it as a total twitch game".

I hope he's just trying to give a favorable impression to a retarded journalist, KOTOR was already tiptoeing on the border of more action game than rpg (stellar voice acting and a decent if cliched plot saved it).

With Fallout 3 going the same route, and I honestly believe it's doing it because of industry trends rather than Bethesda being uncomfortable with doing anything else, does this mean RPGs are dying?

Now as a PC gamer since the 80's I have obvious problems with this, as many of the types of games I used to play are either nonexistent or rushed out of development too soon and not taken seriously (NWN2).

As an XBOX360 gamer since 2006 I also have a great problem with this. The ENTIRE FUCKING CONSOLE'S LIBRARY is shooters and sports games. Why does the industry think that's all they can make?

In the past, it's true, shooters would always assure more sales due to their accessibility, I do not believe that is the case anymore. We have something like 2 dozen shooters coming out in the next 6 months - the current environment is begging for something different. While this is happening, developers are blindly pressing on with more shooters (I'm using shooters generically to describe first or third person action games, forgive me). Don't get me wrong I'll be picking up Halo and GTA and the big names, as they are part of the reason I invested in the console, but what happened?

Ever since Jade Empire came out it seems like, no one wants to do RPGs anymore? To my knowledge well done console RPGs (like knights of the old republic) or even cliched pretty pseudo-RPGs (like Final Fantasy) sell extremely well. I'm not getting the game industry these days, if every game doesn't have the exact same control scheme and not require the gamer to be above the age of 5 to comprehend or appreciate the intricacies of it, it doesn't get made (I'm actually going to give FF12 some kudos here, alot of fans threw fits but it actually has a plot that a 5 year old wouldn't grasp).





I may just be paranoid, but 10 years from now I think the only games on the shelf will be Madden and First Person Shooters (with a few "old school" games being third person shooters). The only variation will be the amount of character customization. What is with this trend in gaming? Working retail talking to ALOT of "mainstream gamers" I find that even they want the never ending parade of shooter faire to stop.

I mean if the Wii isn't an indication of people wanting to try something new (and for today's generation of gamers, our brand of RPGs would most certainly be new), I don't know what is.
 
Let's be honest. Classic cRPGs are dead as a mainstream genre. The big corporations don't care any more about art. All they want is money.

Times have changed and now the internet allows independent developers to make games and distribute them digitally.
This is the future of real cRPGs. The only way is to ignore the mainstream and switch to independent developers. It may mean worse graphics, and text only games, but...
I don't care about graphics and voice-overs. I want content.
 
Mass Effect will be an action game with some RPG elements.
Fallout 3... who knows.

But there is some interesting indie games:
- Broken Hourglass
- Age of Decadence
- Eschalon Book 1
- King's Bounty (AKA Battlelord)
- Drakensang

The problem is when all the media call CRPG to all of that Action RPG stuff.

Regards
 
The general shallowness of Xbox games has never surprised me.
What really irks me is the decline of PC gaming. I remember when the PC was a treasure trove of CRPGs, deep strategy games and weird niche titles that didn't fit in anywhere but were pure gold *cough*Star Control 2*cough*

But nowadays.. almost everything is amalgamated. Multi-platform FPS shooters, RTS, hybrid RPG-action games.
This trend of one-size-fits-all games which seek to over-simplify in order to appeal to everyone makes me ill. Why must an RPG adapt itself to please FPS fans? Why should an FPS adapt itself to please RPG fans? They're different genres for a *reason*.
That's not to say all hybrids don't work, I mean we do have Deus Ex. But hybrids made just for the sake of being all things to all people are killing off CRPGs.
 
I think that it's not a problem of genre mixture, it's a problem about simple minds. Big publishers and editors believe than most gamers have not brain, so, they create games for brainless people. There is exceptions... but I'm not sure about it.
 
At some point in time, more people will realize just how saturated the market is with these brainless titles.. but nothing will happen untill enough realize it, or the "right" persons. It will inflate some day.. hopefully
 
The following genre is going down the hill since 2001: fps and CRPG.

Today's FPS always put you in the shoe of a 'real-life immesen! real weapon! real world setting!' bullshit. That's why I say Prey is the only worth buying fps game... which is unfortunately.

Least there's still hope with this year's upcoming title like Bioshock and... Crysis and Quake War (okie Crysis and Quake war have 'real-weapon and vehicle but least you are fighting aliens).

But for CRPG, the old school fun (isometric view, turn-based combat and engaging dialog), I'm afraid, has gone the way of dodo bird. although some might still survive guarding by indie... :shrug:
 
the console market has slowly but surely turned gaming from something us geeky lads and lasses do in our spare time, into something the average moronic jock can do whilst drinking watered down piss with his friends and make it seem cool.

so all the lengthy, detailed gems of beauty games have been overrun with quick mindless shit

shooters and sports games

don't get me wrong, I love sports games (big FIFA fan), and shooters too, but not hundreds upon hundreds of pretty much the same tired old Halo game cloned with even more carnage and mayhem.

I mourned the loss of my "point and click" adventure games and i too will mourn the loss of the CRPG very very soon
 
the4thlaw said:
I mourned the loss of my "point and click" adventure games and i too will mourn the loss of the CRPG very very soon
Click to expand...

Sam and Max is still alive and kicking well on gametap.com.
As for recent of CPRG representive game.... well... eh.... none I can think of :cry:
 
Well hopefully Age of Decadence and Afterfall will get done before I go totally mad because of this FPS saturation. :P
 
The adventure genre has been resurrected and even somewhat rejuvenated lately, and there are quite a few interesting adventure games out there. I would most wholeheartedly recommend one in particular: Still Life. Look it up, you won't be sorry.

Also, yes, I believe that Mass Effect will be, in effect, a crappy game and will do more damage than good to the RPG genre.

As far as FPS games go, yes the genre has gone downhill but the thing is that there's so many FPS games that the number of good ones has remained the same. Maybe I'm just optimistic about them because there are so many coming out soon that seem to be excellent.
 
All Bioware games have done more damage than good to the RPG genre. It was Bioware's Baldur's Gate that started the whole "turn based is obsolete" shit.
 
Sorrow said:
All Bioware games have done more damage than good to the RPG genre. It was Bioware's Baldur's Gate that started the whole "turn based is obsolete" shit.
Click to expand...
Nice twisting of actual gaming history there, Sorrow.
 
Sure, that's what Rosh always said.

Me, I'm not so sure. I'd say there's nothing unique about the development of RPGs vs that of other genres, and flattening it out to make it appeal to the casual gamer is what happens to any genre. RPGs included. Bioware just floated on the time, it's not more or less guilty of it than anyone else
 
My problem with BG was that it had some crappy features and still managed to get very high ratings.

Starting with pseudo RTwP combat that featured homing arrows, people standing and waiting for their turn to attack, waiting for their turn to be able to drink a potion, etc. and ending with poor dialogues without stat checks and almost non-interactive maps that were described as a "living breathing world".

One thing that I really hate about reviews was overusing ratings over 6/10. Giving a game like Baldur's Gate a rating of 9/10 suggests that the game offers the best of what games can offer, which isn't true.

What's the point of making combat right, writing good dialogues, etc. when a game without them can get 9/10?
 
Sorrow said:
What's the point of making combat right, writing good dialogues, etc. when a game without them can get 9/10?
Click to expand...

That's a general trend of the kiss-ass gaming journalism industry rather than the fault of any one developer.
Until the easily impressed children who are wowed by parties and trips to E3 are replaced by real journalists, this will go on. Why does a developer have to slave away at making an awesome game when their PR department will buy top ratings either way?
 
I think that it has something more with snobism. They can't just give a game a 5/10 or 6/10 and say that it's worth playing, but has a lot of things that are substandard. No, a game worth playing has to have at least 9/10 nowadays.
 
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