Metroid Dread. My opinion on it

The Dutch Ghost

Grouchy old man of NMA
Moderator
Hello all,

Yesterday I finished Metroid Dread and I have to say that I am glad that it is finally over, something I would normally say about Metroid games as I did not really enjoy the experience.

It is not a bad game but it is also not what I would liked to have seen in a Metroid title.

What I liked about the game was how fast and smooth the main character moves and jumps, quite similar to the character in the Strider 2014 game which I will compare Dread a few more times too.
It is actually really nice to behold but controls though can be a little floaty sometimes and I am not that sure if I prefer a thumb stick over a D-pad in this case.
The new moves such as the slide is a welcome addition as it really adds to the character's flexibility, as does the new flash shift the player later acquires. I have experiences with both as these were also in Strider 2014.
It is a good thing that they are in general easy to use because you will need them a lot later in the game during boss fights.

The 360 degree aiming from Metroid Samus Returns, and it is both a boone for its precision to specific targets, but also a bane as the player can't move while remaining open during attacks.
I think I may prefer the system handled in Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero mission.

Unfortunately the counter mechanic from MSR also returns. This is a little punch you do when an enemy announced in a flash animation that it is going to attack you, striking the enemy in time leaves it dazed and open for a few seconds so you do extra damage to it with your shot.
It rapidly looses its effectiveness in regular combat when you get better weapons, an improvement over MSR where it remained so mandatory. It how however remains required in boss battles as in some fights you can only real hurt or even finish off bosses in a QTE segment. (yep, Metroid now has QTE segments)

The jump boots from previous 2D Metroid games have been replaced with a double jump. This sounds similar to the double jump in the Prime games but it is basically a space jump you can only use once, and it becomes completely irrelevant after you have collected the space jump.

The Shinespark. Well you better like this mechanic from the previous games because it is has been expanded on in Dread, and is required to solve a number of shinespark puzzles that range from tedious to very frustrating.
Before I forget to mention it, players will be using the booster and shinespark very little outside puzzles.


The maps. Well they are a lot bigger than most of the ones in Super Metroid, Fusion, and Zero Mission. But they are also very linear.

Remember how in Fusion either the computer CO or in Super Metroid the statues directed you on where to go next? The direction system does not return in Dread, but instead the map is designed in such a way that the only way to progress with the power ups you have is to follow a specific route.
For example, super cold areas prevent you from exploring some alternative paths until you have the right suit upgrades.
And when you collect new power ups that should open up more of previously explored section, something happens like an obstacle closing off routes such as an earthquake or the appearance of poisonous plants.
So if you intend to return to rooms where you saw some extra missile tanks, energy tanks, or parts of energy tanks (like in Zelda you now sometimes have to collect pieces of an energy tank to get a full one), forget about it. The game will only allow you to do that when you perhaps later return to these rooms, or near the end when you have all main powerups and the missile and energy tanks that could have made a difference are pretty much irrelevant now.


Theme wise the maps handle the standard Metroid fare. You have your rock/underground world, fire world, water world, jungle world, a small area that serves as a prison or containment facility, a robot factory world, a temple world, a fortress, and a final boss lair.
There is no ice world but cold area segments are placed throughout some of the other levels.

The world tend to be a mix of these themes along with high tech sections such as labs and the robot patrol zones.
Maps also no longer have alternative direct connections/paths with each other like in SM, Fusion, and ZM which you can use next to the elevators.
Instead like MSR there are now teleporter stations.


Enemies are you standard cannon fodder. Initially being able to cause you a lot of damage if you are not careful, and needing to be countered before you can do the finishing attack.
Weapon improvement quickly reduces their threat with the exception of a handful of enemies that require a little trick before they eventually too can be easily mowed down. You will only resort to the melee when you want enemies to drop more energy and missiles.
Halfway during the game down the strength of regular enemies is somewhat increased.

The bosses however, Jesus did the designers decide to up the strength and endurance of these.
This already started in MSR with the Metroids and that digger robot. Shooting them while avoiding their attacks or getting in physical contact with them is not enough any more. The player now has to fight a lot of them until they are open to a QTE segment in which the player can do actual damage and maybe get a little energy and some missiles if they are running low.
Fail to make use of the opening and the player is back to having to fight the bosses until there is another QTE window. Only a handful of bosses can be beaten without the QTE segment.
The thing is, these assholes hit hard and I do mean HARD. As in, if the player is not careful a boss enemy can drain a player's health in a handful of hits, especially the ones that have attacks that if one blow hits, it is rapidly followed up by two or three more blows.
And some of them don't have projectile attacks that generate additional energy or missile pick ups when you shoot these.
Fighting and defeating these like the giant spider reptile thing can sometimes take ages, giving you the feeling that it never ends.

I did not mention the robots yet that were brought up a lot in the Metroid Dread trailers.
These robots patrol specific areas in each world that the player occasionally has to get through to reach other parts of the map. And once these robots catch your presence they immediately start searching for you.
You can temporary throw them off by making enough distance, or using an invisibility power up that makes them unable to detect you (they can still bump into you however). But the moment you move again they sense you and head immediately towards you.
To defeat them you need a special weapon power up that you acquire from defeating a mini boss that is somewhere in the level.
After you have collected this weapon you need to find a specific area of the zone where you have enough room to start firing at the robot without it being able to immediately get to you. This is required as you first need to destroy the robot's head armor, and then charge up for the killing shot.
Don't be surprised that you may have run again before you succeed in either of these tasks as can take quite a while.
What annoys me a lot with these robots is that they are always in the part of the zone where you happen to enter it, being only a few steps behind you, and never anywhere else in this patrol zone.
These robots also get additional abilities, from being able to follow you into narrow corridors, move at super speed, being able to fire an ice shot that stuns you, or a shot that goes through walls.
When you encounter one of these things outside the tutorial one, the chase can be pretty exciting as you need to be constantly on the move in order to avoid them and reach the exit of the zone you are going for, or the mini boss.
But after the second or third time it becomes rather repetitious and it feels that it rather breaks up the rest of the game as you have to play chase and hide & seek with these robots.
If they manage to catch you you are pretty much dead as they have an insta-kill attack. There is small room for a counter to escape but it is very very brief and in general not even worth trying.

I feel that this gameplay mechanic became old really fast, and it would have been much better and memorable as a one time thing that something we players would be forced to go through several times.
Heck, if Nintendo/Mercurysteam insisted so much on this, why not just have one robot that can show up in each of the maps, and remains invulnerable until the near end of the game?
And that is perhaps occasionally on another map patrolling and searching for you. When you cause too much trouble or are perhaps seen by some detection unit you draw its attention and it immediately comes to your last location.


I did not even mention the storyline yet and that is because it is pretty forgettable.
Metroid has never been known for its storylines but in comparison to Dread, Fusion and the Prime games pulled it off way better.
Samus her portrayal? In one game she is over emotional, in another just some killing machine with occassionally some humanity.
Some people think this is sort of a backlash to the bad reception of Samus' portrayal in Other M.
I am actually not sure if Samus Aran really should have that much of a character as I don't think the Metroid franchise should become more cinematic.
Stuff like that is better reserved for comics or Manga.


I confess I got into this game with a bias as I had already spoiled it for myself by watching walkthroughs and reading opinion pieces and reviews of other people who played it.
But even if I had not done those things I would still find the experience very average.
Spoiling it for myself did not hurt my enjoyment of it. Rather it confirmed what I had been expecting after reading the articles and watching preview videos.

Back in 2017 I had bought and played Metroid Samus Returns, a remake of the old Metroid 2 for the Gameboy that was developed by the same studio that did Dread. MSR can even be seen as sort of a warm up for the developers before they got to work on Dread as MSR feels much more of a sequel to this game than Fusion which chronological takes place before it.
I really did not like some of the mechanics of MSR such as the now required melee or counter in order to soften up enemies so that you can do real damage to them. Regular shots just seem to scrape them.
MSR and now Dread really puts more emphasis on fighting, especially in the boss battles.
Now I don't think the boss battles should be easy and boring. Some of the boss battles in Prime 1 and 2 were really exciting.
But I don't care much for the cinematic fighting thing in which we are forced to watch an animation until we are given the signal that we must now press a button to react on time, or keep pressing the firing button.

Exploring has become somewhat secondary and I find a lot of the maps rather boring.
You don't get a lot of room to explore and pick up additional collectibles that would be helpful in the next boss fight which you are guided to the moment you have finished the previous one

The last 2D Metroid game that I really got into before I played the Prime games was Metroid Zero Mission.
MZM was perhaps very short and basic, but it is also a game I would gladly play again when I have some time and want to play something that is well designed and not too frustrating that I can finish in an evening.
Its planned sequence breaking allowed you to get some items earlier that made boss fights easier, and it was not so focused on padding the game's length by closing pathways and forcing you to look for another.
The only exception is of course the near end segment which is a forced stealth section with near invulnerable enemies, but it was never that long like in Dread.
One time is fine, five times becomes a chore.

Maybe I have outgrown the Metroid franchise. There are many fine alternatives now available on various platforms.
But I also feel that the Metroid franchise itself has issues since Metroid Prime 3, or Metroid Zero Mission if people don't like the Prime games.
We had the more cinematic offshoot Other M that fell flat, and not just of the story.
Then MSR which I think is just a very bland game with little to no replay value.
And now Dread which I think is MSR dialed up with some very annoying filler (we honestly don't need to fight the same several mini bosses a number of times) that after some point just drags, especially with the boss battles

I am glad that I have finished this game myself, and with all the collectibles which I openly admit I used a guide for as I did not really feel like going through the levels for hours to find them all of figure out the little trick needed to collect them.
So when people ask me my opinion on Dread I can speak from my own experiences and not sound like a parrot by saying someone else's even though I did make use of other people's opinion to put my own thoughts and feelings into words.
I would gladly play Fusion, Zero Mission, Prime 1, 2, and 3 again. But Dread? No thanks.
 
Hello all,

Yesterday I finished Metroid Dread and I have to say that I am glad that it is finally over, something I would normally say about Metroid games as I did not really enjoy the experience.

It is not a bad game but it is also not what I would liked to have seen in a Metroid title.
That's a shame, but it's nice to see someone critiquing the game, even if I don't agree with all of these points.

I am not that sure if I prefer a thumb stick over a D-pad in this case.
I generally prefer to use the D-Pad for games in a two-dimensional space, but I think this works in Dread's case. Still wish there was an option, though.

The 360 degree aiming from Metroid Samus Returns, and it is both a boone for its precision to specific targets, but also a bane as the player can't move while remaining open during attacks.
I think I may prefer the system handled in Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero mission.
Being able to Free Aim while moving was something I was hoping for in Dread. It's shame the Right Analog Stick is regulated through Aeion abilities.

Unfortunately the counter mechanic from MSR also returns. This is a little punch you do when an enemy announced in a flash animation that it is going to attack you, striking the enemy in time leaves it dazed and open for a few seconds so you do extra damage to it with your shot.
I think the Counter mechanic is much better implemented here because Samus no longer stops on a dime when she uses it, and it increases in damage whenever her suit upgrades.

It rapidly looses its effectiveness in regular combat when you get better weapons, an improvement over MSR where it remained so mandatory. It how however remains required in boss battles as in some fights you can only real hurt or even finish off bosses in a QTE segment. (yep, Metroid now has QTE segments)
I also think combat in the game is all the more better for not relying on it as heavily as in Samus Returns. QTEs in Metroid is strange, though, and I think they went overboard by having a variation of it in just about every boss battle.

The Shinespark. Well you better like this mechanic from the previous games because it is has been expanded on in Dread, and is required to solve a number of shinespark puzzles that range from tedious to very frustrating.
Before I forget to mention it, players will be using the booster and shinespark very little outside puzzles.
Shinesparking is fun (moreso than any Metroid game so far), so I don't mind it being required to solve various puzzles. It's not really accurate to say players will only use to solve puzzles because it's good for spreedruns, as well as being a much faster method of traveling through the map. It's a useful mechanic, of course people are going to use it outside puzzles.

Remember how in Fusion either the computer CO or in Super Metroid the statues directed you on where to go next?
I don't recall Super ever having Chozo statues do that. I think you got it mix up with Zero Mission.

— The direction system
— More open areas
— Items and Equipment becoming irrelevant
I'm a bit confused with the arguments in this paragraph, because every Metroid game since the second game has prohibited the player in the same way Dread does, but in varying degrees. I'm bit perplexed that they decided to bring back energy parts from Other M. Did people enjoy looking for those in that game?

I feel that this gameplay mechanic became old really fast, and it would have been much better and memorable as a one time thing that something we players would be forced to go through several times. Heck, if Nintendo/Mercurysteam insisted so much on this, why not just have one robot that can show up in each of the maps, and remains invulnerable until the near end of the game?
And that is perhaps occasionally on another map patrolling and searching for you. When you cause too much trouble or are perhaps seen by some detection unit you draw its attention and it immediately comes to your last location.
Because that would've been just a repeat of SA-X in Fusion. Sakamoto wanted to evolve this encounter by having more than nigh-unkillable persurer after the player. I do agree that execution is a muddled through its repetition and the game's checkpoint system. The "Dread" factor of the game is somewhat diminished because of this. It's hard to top Fusion's oppressive, dark atmosphere.

Samus her portrayal? In one game she is over emotional, in another just some killing machine with occassionally some humanity.
Some people think this is sort of a backlash to the bad reception of Samus' portrayal in Other M.
I am actually not sure if Samus Aran really should have that much of a character as I don't think the Metroid franchise should become more cinematic.
Stuff like that is better reserved for comics or Manga.
I don't think the series needs to be more cinematic for Samus to be more characterized. Given how much we know about her and what she's done, there's plenty of infro to us about her character and who she is as one.
 
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Hello 5545Trey, I will respond on the rest of what you wrote to me later.

I don't recall Super ever having Chozo statues do that. I think you got it mix up with Zero Mission.

Ugh, that is what I meant. I don't know why I wrote down Super Metroid.
 
Darn it, responding took longer than I intended.

I finished Metroid Dread again yesterday, but this time on the new 'rookie' level the game is patched with when you go online.
Bosses retain their speed but their attacks to less damage, and you can damage them more (I think).

That's a shame, but it's nice to see someone critiquing the game, even if I don't agree with all of these points.

Well we all have our own opinion :)
I have been a fan of the franchise since Super Metroid but I feel that with Other M and the titles after it the franchise went into a decline after reaching its high points with Fusion, Prime, Zero Mission, Prime 2 Echoes, and Prime 3 Corruption.

I generally prefer to use the D-Pad for games in a two-dimensional space, but I think this works in Dread's case. Still wish there was an option, though.

I would also have preferred it if this option had been available.
Playing platform games with a thumbstick can feel very 'off' sometimes. I also experienced it with BCR2 during which I switched to the D pad sometimes for more precise controls.
Same goes for SotN.

Being able to Free Aim while moving was something I was hoping for in Dread. It's shame the Right Analog Stick is regulated through Aeion abilities.

I do feel it would be a bit tricky to free aim while moving, but that is because of the Switch Joycon layout.
If that was resolved it could perhaps be very useful during combat or when having to flee from an EMMI.

I think the Counter mechanic is much better implemented here because Samus no longer stops on a dime when she uses, and it increases in damage whenever her suit upgrades.

True. I experienced this during my second walkthrough when I decided to keep moving towards an enemy rather than waiting for it to come to me after it flashes that it is going to do an attack that can be countered.

I also think combat in the game is all the more better for not relying on it as heavily as in Samus Returns. QTEs in Metroid is strange, though, and I think they went overboard by having a variation of it in just about every boss battle.

Combat has indeed improved over what it is in MSR. The screw attack also no longer feels nerfed.
I am not a fan of QTEs after experiencing these in Resident Evil 4, and Dread has indeed gone overboard with the QTEs in the boss battles.
I especially dislike that some of the more powerful bosses can only be defeated in QTEs.

Shinesparking is fun (moreso than any Metroid game so far), so I don't mind it being required to solve various puzzles. It's not really accurate to say players will only use to solve puzzles because it's good for spreedruns, as well as being a much faster method of traveling through the map. It's a useful mechanic, of course people are going to use it outside puzzles.

I find it kind of hard of pulling off shinesparks outside of puzzles when I am not familiar with the map layouts. I was pretty decent at it in Zero Mission.

I'm a bit confused with the arguments in this paragraph, because every Metroid game since the second game has prohibited the player in the same way Dread does, but in varying degrees. I'm bit perplexed that they decided to bring back energy parts from Other M. Did people enjoy looking for those in that game?

True, the Metroid games were more linear after Metroid 2 but I guess I did not notice it that much at the time.
But after I feel that Dread was very linear I wonder if I will also feel that in MF and MZM now.
I also have no idea what the producer felt it was a good idea of bringing back the energy tank parts other than that he wanted the player to collect more collectibles.
The number of missiles to collect has also been increased with 40. And each missile pick up now only gives2 missiles with the exception of missile+ tanks that give 10.

Because that would've been just a repeat of SA-X in Fusion. Sakamoto wanted to evolve this encounter by having more than nigh-unkillable persurer after the player. I do agree that execution is a muddled through its repetition and the game's checkpoint system. The "Dread" factor of the game is somewhat diminished because of this. It's hard to top Fusion's oppressive, dark atmosphere.

I think it worked well in Fusion as it was a surprise for the player, many believing that the SA-X would act really unpredictable during the game.
MZM had it with the space pirates in the final section of the game, the player only being able to stun them and having to run away until they acquire the full power suit.
I am pretty done with unstoppable killers now in Metroid.

I don't think the series needs to be more cinematic for Samus to be more characterized. Given how much we know about her and what she's done, there's plenty of infro to us about her character and who she is as one.

I fear we will get more.
 
I have been a fan of the franchise since Super Metroid but I feel that with Other M and the titles after it the franchise went into a decline after reaching its high points with Fusion, Prime, Zero Mission, Prime 2 Echoes, and Prime 3 Corruption.
I also started the series with Super. Looking back, I was pretty lucky to find my brother's old SNES and a copy of the game one day while clearing out my garage.

I don't think it's fair to say the series declined after Other M, because only three Metroid titles came out within the last eleven years, and one of them wasn't even a proper Metroid game while the other was a remake, rather than a new game.

Combat has indeed improved over what it is in MSR. The screw attack also no longer feels nerfed.
I am not a fan of QTEs after experiencing these in Resident Evil 4, and Dread has indeed gone overboard with the QTEs in the boss battles.
I especially dislike that some of the more powerful bosses can only be defeated in QTEs.
Dread should've just made QTEs optional if they were going to be implemented, i.e. Insomniac's Spider-Man (2018). I also don't understand why they decided to have Samus perform the same takedown on all five of the
Chozo Soldiers
she comes across. This represents the bigger issue of scenes being repeated, such as the one after she destroys an E.M.M.I.

I find it kind of hard of pulling off shinesparks outside of puzzles when I am not familiar with the map layouts. I was pretty decent at it in Zero Mission.
It might be do to Zero Mission's iconic familiarization of the original. And the fact that this is the third game taking place on a familiar planet.

True, the Metroid games were more linear after Metroid 2 but I guess I did not notice it that much at the time.
Not quite, as Super is more open than II is. It really depends on the game, the games that came before/after it.

But after I feel that Dread was very linear I wonder if I will also feel that in MF and MZM now.
I also have no idea what the producer felt it was a good idea of bringing back the energy tank parts other than that he wanted the player to collect more collectibles.
The number of missiles to collect has also been increased with 40. And each missile pick up now only gives2 missiles with the exception of missile+ tanks that give 10.
Linearity was something I definitely felt when playing Fusion for the first time. The game locks you out of areas constantly throughout the game and you're always being told where to go.

While there's many more missiles to collect, the game has a maximum capacity of 275 missiles, so I don't mind going out of my way to collect as many as I can.

I think it worked well in Fusion as it was a surprise for the player, many believing that the SA-X would act really unpredictable during the game.
MZM had it with the space pirates in the final section of the game, the player only being able to stun them and having to run away until they acquire the full power suit.
I am pretty done with unstoppable killers now in Metroid.
Same here, I think this concept has run its course now.

I fear we will get more.
I'm more worried about the execution, rather than how much of it we'll receive in future games.
 
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They chose to have her do the same animations because Nintendo is cheap as hell.
 
I also started the series with Super. Looking back, I was pretty luck to find my brother's old SNES and a copy of the game one day while clearing out my garage.

I don't think it's fair to say the series declined after Other M, because only three Metroid titles came out within the last eleven years, and one of them wasn't even a proper Metroid game while the other was a remake, rather than a new game.

You mean Federation Force? I actually liked that game though I think it really should have a better single player mode.
But it is definitely not a main entry in the series and I think the biggest mistake of Nintendo was the time at which they released it. They really should have released it around the same time as a main title in the series.

Well decline is not the right description but I do think the franchise has not reached the heights it did during Fusion, Zero Mission, Prime 1, 2, and 3.

Other M rather disappointed me because of the gameplay and the storyline. I get the feeling that the producer and Nintendo really hoped that this would have taken off and that they could have continued the series this way.
Mind you, there are still parts of it that I do like. I do think the graphics and models recaptured some of the vibe of Super Metroid, but I also like the more Western approach in the Prime games regarding style.

I wish I could better describe why I felt that MSR was a disappointment for me.
Well I need also to add that I did not like Metroid 2 on the gameboy that much as it was rather repetitive and that repetition returned in MSR.
Scratching my head here on how to make fighting forty or forty five times a handful different boss enemies over and over again more interesting.
Definitely some of the mechanics that I just did not like but I also found the experience to be very bland.

Dread, well we are talking about it now :)

It is quite possible that since the last game I was really into my taste in gaming has also changed.
In my own comment section I was talking with Eissa about Gaming Burnout. I still should look into that and what it really details.

At the beginning on this week I wrote about why I feel that the lore of Metroid has not been so good for a while now.
Problem is, the first signs of that actually appeared in Metroid Fusion and Metroid Zero Mission and those are games I like.

In a way I am glad that the Prime games are very self contained.

I guess I just really wanted a title that hit the same heights as Fusion or Zero Mission when it comes to a 2D Metroid.
Well or Super Metroid

Dread should've just made QTEs optional if they were going to implemented, i.e. Insomniac's Spider-Man (2018). I also don't understand why they decided to have Samus perform the same takedown on all five of the Chozo Soldiers she comes across. This represents the bigger issue of scenes being repeated, such as the one after she destroys an E.M.M.I.

Yes, that would definitely have improved the boss fights somewhat for me.
Or that on lower difficulties the windows of pressing the button (ugh) are a bit longer.

It might be do to how Zero Mission's iconic familiarization of the original. And the fact that this os the third game taking place on a familiar planet.

Maybe, but I actually never played the NES version of Metroid much, so I wasn't too familiar with the map layouts other than looking at some maps made by gamers for people who are stuck on it.

What annoyed me with the shinespark in Dread was that I sometimes could not figure out how to make it work properly. At least not on my own, I had to watch some other people's videos on how to execute the shinespark well.
I find that a little disappointing as I was able to complete most of ZM's shinespark puzzles with the exception of one that did require some outside help.

I now understand Dread's shinespark puzzles mechanic better, I am still a little annoyed though that in one puzzle the mechanic works fine, but a second later when I run into a similar situation the mechanic doesn't work.

It is the situation with the tunnel near the green teleporter in the water world. You have limited space to charge the shinespark, then have to rapidly go into another room, slide through a narrow shaft and shoot destroy-able blocks before yoy reach them. Then before you fall on the ground, activate the shinespark to climb onto a slope on your left, quickly slide slide down under and obstacle, and then charge/save the shinespark again.

Then you need to drop down another shaft and use the shinespark again to climb a slope after which you charge/save the shinespark again.

Now you have reached a corridor with a series of shinespark destructible walls with a missile tank at the and of it.
I pull off the first part just fine, but for some reason when I drop down the second shaft the shinespark won't activate in mid air, even if I shoot first and then quickly press the jump button without pressing a direction.

Unfortunately it does not activate and Samus drops on the ground which contains a small pool.
At this point you don't have the gravity suit yet so water impairs your jumping ability, so you can't jump on time to still make use of that slope.
I so far I have had to wait until I have the space jump before I can try to tackle this one.

Not quite, as Super is more open than II is. It really depends on the game, the games that came before/after it.

I kind of forgot about Super Metroid when I wrote that sentence. SM did indeed give the player more freedom to go around, being only limited by the current power ups.

I was probably thinking more about Metroid Fusion. MZM also gave a little more degree of freedom, the limit being the power grip and the varia.

Linearity was something I definitely felt when playing Fusion for the first time. The game locks out of areas constantly throughout the game you're always being told where to go.

Fusion is indeed more linear. I wonder if I will experience that should I replay the game now.
At the time I did not seem to mind, but then the only Metroid game I had played in a while was Super Metroid, so any new material was welcome.

While there's many more missiles to collect, the game has a maximum capacity of 275 missiles, so I don't mind going out of my way to collect as many as I can.

I don't mind collecting the missiles, just that some are behind one-way paths during the initial part of Dread.

Same here, I think this concept has run its course now.

I hope Sakamoto also gets that. As a one time gimmick it is fine but you know how it goes when something gets popular.

I liked the Nemesis in RE3 actually but I did not think we needed another one. I think there was something similar in RE6 but I never finished that game.
And yeah, I know technically RE2 did it with Mr X.

Off subject, I actually liked RE4 and I liked Revelations 1 (never finished 2 as at some point I got stuck on a boss).
But I have disliked RE ever since the forced partner system in RE5 (yes I know this is a little contradicting as there are also partners in Revelations 1 & 2).
At some point RE just stopped working for me. I don't know why.

I'm more worried about the execution, rather than how much of it we'll receive in future games.

For me it is kind of both. The execution as you said but also the type of new content.
I wrote how disappointed I am with the lore but I know I can not change anything about it any more now that it is out (same with Fallout).
With the Metroid saga over (can we really call it a saga? The first three games were pretty self contained, only Fusion and Dread had an ongoing narrative, Other M is this weird entry), Sakamoto and other people working on the franchise can now do whole new ideas.
That should give some room, also for new ideas of power ups. But I am just not sold on this man's ideas.

BTW, perhaps I mentioned it before but I think it might have worked in favor of the franchise if it had stuck to the perhaps more generic name of Space Hunter.
If that name had been used lore wise sequels would not have required bringing in the Metroids or referring to them in some way, Samus now being the ultimate Metroid for example.

I don't want to sound like that I enjoy dissing on the Metroid franchise as it is one of the few IPs I grew up with that has remained until recently reasonable good, even when another development team got to work on it. Prime was really enjoyable to me. Hunters was rather forgettable if you ask me if you don't play it with others. And FF, well it really required a better single player mode and enemies perhaps dropping health and goodes when you defeat them.
I still would like to see a Prime games compilation with all entries.

But I kind of feel that like with a lot of other IPs, not just games but also books, comics, etc. that the old gamers audience is now being traded in for a new audience, the IP being made more generic to appeal to those that previously wouldn't give a damn about the Metroid franchise because they don't like the gameplay for example.
If the old audience wants to continue to play new Metroid games they better get with the program.
Well it is not that as if the franchise has made a major change like the Fallout games did as Dread is still pretty close to SM, MF, and MZM, just with some new gameplay additions, and maps now made so that exploration will not confuse newcomers, and people still can get lost.
And again, I can not rule out that perhaps my own tastes have also changed. I was in my late teens/early twenties when I played MF, MZM, and Prime 1, 2, 3, Hunters (I am old :( )
But when I read on Gamefaqs (yeah I know, a wretched hive of scum and villainy) that people want games like Metroid Prime to be more like Doom 2016, complete with execution moves, I feel that some of the new audience doesn't want Metroid to be, well Metroid.
 
You mean Federation Force? I actually liked that game though I think it really should have a better single player mode.
But it is definitely not a main entry in the series and I think the biggest mistake of Nintendo was the time at which they released it. They really should have released it around the same time as a main title in the series.
They definitely could've release the game at a better time when the last main title wasn't a heavily-divisive tie-in to Super and Fusion. 'Course, that's not the only reason why Federation Force was panned unanimously on the interwebs, but I'll have more to write about that once I get to your last paragraph.

Well decline is not the right description but I do think the franchise has not reached the heights it did during Fusion, Zero Mission, Prime 1, 2, and 3.
That's mostly because all of these games were released from 2002 to 2007, so it was a sort of boom for the series.

I wish I could better describe why I felt that MSR was a disappointment for me.
Honesty is more important than articulation, so don't worry about how you articulate your own opinion.

I guess I just really wanted a title that hit the same heights as Fusion or Zero Mission when it comes to a 2D Metroid.
Well or Super Metroid
Always keep your expectations low. There hasn't been many games of the genre on Super's level in the 28 years it's been out, and it'll stay that way for a long time.

Or that on lower difficulties the windows of pressing the button (ugh) are a bit longer.
I've only ever played the game on the two difficulties that could be played before the update, and the window to counter seems about the same. Of course, I wish Metroid handled difficulty better, rather than having the player die quicker, or making enemies arbitrarily take more shots to kill.

Maybe, but I actually never played the NES version of Metroid much, so I wasn't too familiar with the map layouts other than looking at some maps made by gamers for people who are stuck on it.
It's a game I still have to complete — and I still want to do so. I first played it on the Switch, and I spent a bit playing it through the VisualBoy Advance emulator after beating ZM.

What annoyed me with the shinespark in Dread was that I sometimes could not figure out how to make it work properly. At least not on my own, I had to watch some other people's videos on how to execute the shinespark well.
I find that a little disappointing as I was able to complete most of ZM's shinespark puzzles with the exception of one that did require some outside help.
It might because you can't get as precise with the move because of the analog stick. I definitely would've had an easier time figuring this out if the game used the D-Pad for movement.

— Regarding more Metroid cinematography in the future
— Lore issues
— New Ideas
Since you mentioned your issues with the lore, would you mind posting a link to your thoughts on how the lore has been handled in the series?

I think we can call it a saga. The first game could be considered "self-contained" (most first installments essentially are), but Metroid II is so crucial to the series that every single game following it has to account for what Samus did on Planet Zebes. Metroid 3's minimalist story only works because of the context provided in the intro of Samus narrating her past adventures, and the trilogy would've been incomplete without Super.

Sakamoto has been working on the franchise since the very beginning. I understand just how much of a negative impression Other M left on people, and I sympathize with the fans who waited five years for a new game to be announced, only for it to be absolutely nothing resembling what the series is at its core, but he does know what he's doing, and he knows the series better than people give him credit for.

I disagree with the generic Space Bounty Hunter moniker, because I don't think it would've change how the lore was established, and might've made the series less iconic as a result.

I still would like to see a Prime games compilation with all entries.
I would too. I'd love to see these rumors that I've been reading about since late 2018 to be true. At the very least, have the main Prime games on the Switch. Although, it'd be great if we could see how Hunters would fair with a more conventional control scheme and Federation Force actually looking like a Metroid game, and having design that actually encourages lone players.

But I kind of feel that like with a lot of other IPs, not just games but also books, comics, etc. that the old gamers audience is now being traded in for a new audience, the IP being made more generic to appeal to those that previously wouldn't give a damn about the Metroid franchise because they don't like the gameplay for example.
Thankfully, I don't think the series is at that point yet, because of how well-received Dread is by people of all gaming backgrounds. It's hard to say where the series will go from here, so I don't think there's anything else to add about this particular topic.

If the old audience wants to continue to play new Metroid games they better get with the program.
Well it is not that as if the franchise has made a major change like the Fallout games did as Dread is still pretty close to SM, MF, and MZM, just with some new gameplay additions, and maps now made so that exploration will not confuse newcomers, and people still can get lost.
And again, I can not rule out that perhaps my own tastes have also changed. I was in my late teens/early twenties when I played MF, MZM, and Prime 1, 2, 3, Hunters (I am old :( )
But when I read on Gamefaqs (yeah I know, a wretched hive of scum and villainy) that people want games like Metroid Prime to be more like Doom 2016, complete with execution moves, I feel that some of the new audience doesn't want Metroid to be, well Metroid.
Speaking of GameFAQS — one time, I saw a thread asking why FF was vehemently hated, and how high the dislike bar was for its trailers and showcases on YouTube. I saw one moron in that thread make a sarcastic remark about people whining just for sake of whining because it's cool to jump on the bandwagon and bash things that are hated, but that's such a gross simplification as to why so many people were aggravated by the announcement of the game. I'm not sure if the average user on those message boards were always that out of touch, but it's better if developers just ignored these fools. As we all should, too. Just as we ignore Reddit's own nonsense.

Seriously, you take what is perhaps Nintendo's darkest and most mature franchise, give it a chibi aesthetic that clashes with the series' tone, make it heavily-focused on co-op gameplay, despite the series priding itself on isolation, and release this product to coincide with the series' 30th anniversary, ON TOP of the fact that the last game came out over HALF A DECADE prior, and was polarizing to the point that people thought it killed the series, and there's still people dumb enough to believe that a lot of those dislikes is because "they clicked the dislike button without a second thought". I wish I could easily find the thread where this dumbass posted this, but I'm tired, irritated (partly because I'm reminded by how ironically stupid people can really be), and I don't fell like spending a long time just trying to find it. It's probably better that you don't read it, anyway.
 
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They definitely could've release the game at a better time when the last main title wasn't a heavily-divisive tie-in to Super and Fusion. 'Course, that's not the only reason why Federation Force was panned unanimously on the interwebs, but I'll have more to write about that once I get to your last paragraph.

It was a very strange decision of Nintendo to announce Federation Force rather than a primarily single player focused game to regain some of the gamers' trust.
It does make me wonder why this project managed to take off at that time.
Do you perhaps know if the Zelda multiplayer game was released around the same period and if it was well received?

That's mostly because all of these games were released from 2002 to 2007, so it was a sort of boom for the series.

Could it have played a role that there weren't many other games of this genre at the time?
I was primarily a PC gamer at the time though like now I had an older machine that could not run the latest games.
At first I had not considered getting a Gamecube in order to play Metroid Prime. Still do not remember why I got one, but once I played the game I was hooked, and two years later I was so looking forwards to the sequel.

Well I was also going through a rough period at home when I got the Gamecube and Metroid Prime, and later Metroid Zero Mission.
It was actually a birthday present. I got it on the same day as I had to leave my mom's home as the situation had become impossible, and it never really got better afterwards.

Sorry for going off subject.
Prime 1 & 2 was something I could loose myself in.

Honesty is more important than articulation, so don't worry about how you articulate your own opinion.

It was primarily the gameplay I did not care much for. Somehow it did not feel as fluent as that of Fusion or Zero Mission.
But I also did not like the repetitive boss enemies with gimmicky 'running away' so you had to go to another part of the map to continue the fight.
I also was not a fan of the maps.

AM2R should have suffered from the same problems but somehow I liked that game more.

I've only ever played the game on the two difficulties that could be played before the update, and the window to counter seems about the game. Of course, I wish Metroid handled difficulty better, rather than having the player die quicker, or making enemies arbitrarily take more shots to kill.

I assume you meant ' the same', and difficulty affecting more elements in the game would have been welcome.

It's a game I still have to complete — and I still want to do so. I first played it on the Switch, and I spent a bit playing it through the VisualBoy Advance emulator after beating ZM.

I got relatively far on an emulator I think but I did not bother saving.

A while back I discovered that a fan had remade the first game but also had created a new map with the same assets.
The modder also modified the physics somewhat, added a inventory screen like in Super Metroid and onwards, and an ingame map.

https://forum.metroidconstruction.com/index.php/topic,4952.0.html

Since you mentioned your issues with the lore, would you mind posting a link to your thoughts on how the lore has been handled in the series?

Here is a link to that post I made on gamefaqs.
I would actually have to read it again myself because I have lost some of the details.
I feel I may have been focusing more on how I wanted the lore to be like. I also primarily focused on the main 2D games as I rather like the Prime games' lore in general.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/211389-metroid-prime-4/79948539

Sakamoto has been working on the franchise since the very beginning. I understand just how much of a negative impression Other M left on people, and I sympathize with the fans who waited five years for a new game to be announced, only for it to be absolutely nothing resembling what the series is at its core, but he does know what he's doing, and he knows the series better than people give him credit for.

Hmm, sometimes I get the feeling that Metroid's lore may have been a team effort rather than just a single producer/writer. But I can be wrong.
Perhaps it is sort of the case like with George Lucas, he had the initial concepts and ideas. But they required refining by others to make them better. And once Metroid had become a somewhat established IP Sakamoto was given more freedom or there were few people to criticize his ideas.
I definitely feel he never had any overarching storyline in mind until perhaps Fusion and Dread.
Perhaps it would have helped if he had worked together more with other producers and writers.

I don't want to hate the guy but I found Other M disappointing and Dread storywise not that much better.

I disagree with the generic Space Bounty Hunter moniker, because I don't think it would've change how the lore was established, and might've made the series less iconic as a result.

Maybe but there would not have been this requirement like with Metal Gear/MGS to bring the titular creature back in every game in some form or reference.
I just suggested Space Hunter as that was the first game's original project name. It could have been something completely else.
Any games after Dread will no longer feature Metroids, well I think it is safe to assume there will not be any more Metroids based on what Sakamoto said in that interview.

I would too... encourages lone players.

I think Hunter's control system could probably be modified to be more like the Wii titels, if Nintendo is going to handle that system for any trilogy remaster.
But changing the graphics of Federation Force, I think that would be such a major overhaul that it would almost be like making the game from the ground up again. Nintendo is probably not going to bother with that.

Speaking of GameFAQS... Reddit's own nonsense.

I have the feeling that I probably have read that post or posts similar to it as well, and it is a rather stupid conclusion.
My own criticisms are not because I want to go against the crowd and show my 'individuality', but because I feel that a franchise I care about is not being handled well any more.
It can still change should I decide to play a criticized game because I still want to see for myself what it is like.
Heck I played Fallout 3 despite that I knew it was nowhere near the level of Fallout 1 and 2, and I genuinely did not like it because of my own experiences.

give it a chibi aesthetic that clashes with the series' tone

Well I did like the designs for the pirates, the FF dropship, and most of the pirate warships. I would not mind those being, hmm... upscaled or enhanced to fit the regular Prime series more.

make it heavily-focused on co-op gameplay, despite the series priding itself on isolation

That is why I think FF really had needed a dedicated single player campaign to go along with the multiplayer campaign.
Heck perhaps the single player campaign focusing on Samus minus the big twist in the final level.

and release this product to coincide with the series' 30th anniversary

That was definitely a mistake on Nintendo's part but I mentioned that earlier.

N TOP of the fact that the last game came out over HALF A DECADE prior, and was polarizing to the point that people thought it killed the series

I definitely had less confidence in the franchise from that point.

and there's still people dumb enough to believe that a lot of those dislikes is because "they clicked the dislike button without a second thought"

The internet, you meet all sorts of people there.
Imagine if it also had played into the current culture war, the outrage would have been even more severe and idiotic.
We almost had that in a way but I don't want to talk about it in this thread.

I wish I could easily find the thread where this dumbass posted this, but I'm tired, irritated (partly because I'm reminded by how ironically stupid people can really be), and I don't fell like spending a long time just trying to find it. It's probably better that you don't read it, anyway.

Oh I pretty much know what type of thread and poster you are talking about. I have seen sort of similar reactions in some of the Gamefaq threads in the Metroid Dread forum, especially in threads of people who like me posted their doubts about Metroid Dread as they did not enjoy the experience that much and just want to talk about why they feel this is not a good Metroid title.
Some of the posters in that forum are downright assholes towards any dissenting voice.
 
It was a very strange decision of Nintendo to announce Federation Force rather than a primarily single player focused game to regain some of the gamers' trust.
It does make me wonder why this project managed to take off at that time.
Do you perhaps know if the Zelda multiplayer game was released around the same period and if it was well received?
Triforce Heroes was released on October 22, 2015. FF released just nearly ten months after that. As for its reception, I got nothin' for ya. Wasn't interest in the Zelda series at the time, but I'll wager it was at least better received than the latter, because Zelda did have this sort of co-op design in a previous entry.

Could it have played a role that there weren't many other games of this genre at the time?
It's a good possibility — one I wouldn't deny. Honestly, it's amazing how the first Prime game sold as well as it did on one of Nintendo's least successful consoles.

Well I was also going through a rough period at home when I got the Gamecube and Metroid Prime, and later Metroid Zero Mission.
It was actually a birthday present. I got it on the same day as I had to leave my mom's home as the situation had become impossible, and it never really got better afterwards.

Sorry for going off subject.
Prime 1 & 2 was something I could loose myself in.
I loved the way Retro Studios went out of their way to make the worlds of both games feel lived in and detailed. What a glorious transition from 2D to 3D.

Hopefully, you're still at least in contact with your mom.

I assume you meant ' the same', and difficulty affecting more elements in the game would have been welcome.
I edited my post prior to your reply, but I still can't believe I missed that typo. Well, it happens to all of us at some point, especially in an on-going internet discussion. I once had this jackass mock me because I misspelled "ilk" with an "e". Mind you, this was a heated debated towards a serious topic, and we've already traded insults at each other beforehand. I basically snark at his immaturity and him being too childish and stupid to realize that it was unintentional spelling error. I hate people who take these sort of cheap shots when even they don't even understand the words that they type. Prior to that, I tried correcting him on what the term "misnomer" actually was, because apparently, things have to be either one or the other, and not be simultaneously be both, according to his warped logic.

Anyway, thanks for pointing it out without being obnoxious about it, like some people would.

A while back I discovered that a fan had remade the first game but also had created a new map with the same assets.
The modder also modified the physics somewhat, added a inventory screen like in Super Metroid and onwards, and an ingame map.

https://forum.metroidconstruction.com/index.php/topic,4952.0.html
Looks really cool. I might have to check out, sometime.

Here is a link to that post I made on gamefaqs.
I would actually have to read it again myself because I have lost some of the details.
I feel I may have been focusing more on how I wanted the lore to be like. I also primarily focused on the main 2D games as I rather like the Prime games' lore in general.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/211389-metroid-prime-4/79948539
I took a good look at your thread over GameFAQs, and while I do find Samus' sharing Raven Beak's DNA to be a bit much, even for Metroid, I don't have much to comment on Dread in regards to its story because it's mostly carried by its cutscenes — and they don't tell us a lot of information.

I should also mention Samus' backstory of being orphaned and raised by Chozo — giving her their DNA and their armor was something we saw back in the comic for Super Metroid; the manga just borrowed those elements. There's still some things I disagree with, however, and I ended up being more convinced with the other poster said. The one thing I can't agree however, is that...

GameFAQs Poster said:
The story of Metroid has always been over the top and ridiculous.
Not really, since the first two games didn't have a story that wasn't tied to a manual, and Super Metroid only has one because it's the third of a trilogy of games, even then, it's minuscule and straight-forward. You could argue the story is contrived and muddied by plot conveniences and cliches, but every story has at least one of these. It doesn't make it "over-the-top", nor does it make "ridiculous".

With that said, I still agree with the other points they said, because not every franchise named after a particular thing has to have every entry focused on said namesake, and I feel the hate Sakamoto received because he wrote a bad story and made several questionable decisions in one game in the franchise he's been working on since 1986 to be really stupid. That last is directed towards you, but I've seen utterly curse his name based just on the interviews surrounding Other M. It was pretty ridiculous.

Hmm, sometimes I get the feeling that Metroid's lore may have been a team effort rather than just a single producer/writer. But I can be wrong.
Even if it was, I think it'll still be something several people spent time thinking about, rather than it being done by just one person.

Maybe but there would not have been this requirement like with Metal Gear/MGS to bring the titular creature back in every game in some form or reference.
Why does this need to be a requirement? Metal Gear might've done that for every game, but what about Halo? Wars, and the last two Halo games Bungie made was a side story as an aftermath of the Battle of Earth from Halo 2, and Reach was a prequel to Combat Evolved. I don't think any of the Halo rings were mentioned in those games, aside from a Black Box from Halo: Wars. As I said, the namesake doesn't need to be referenced or appear in every entry of a series. As long as it retains much of the franchise iconic imagery and lore, then it's fine. It's only a requirement if the franchise in question is lacking in world-building and/or lore.

Any games after Dread will no longer feature Metroids, well I think it is safe to assume there will not be any more Metroids based on what Sakamoto said in that interview.
Canonically, we might never see a Metroid after Dread, but we still have prequels and spin-offs that can take place in between or before it. I know Sakamoto said this, but I can't be too entirely sure this statement won't be contradicted in the distant future.

I think Hunter's control system could probably be modified to be more like the Wii titels, if Nintendo is going to handle that system for any trilogy remaster.
But changing the graphics of Federation Force, I think that would be such a major overhaul that it would almost be like making the game from the ground up again. Nintendo is probably not going to bother with that.
Since the only Wii titles for Metroid were Corruption and Other M, it's probably best to just stick with tradition FPS controls for Hunters if it ever gets a remaster/remake.

As for FF, it shouldn't be that much work to make the character models actually look like character designs from a Metroid game. I'm not talking about anything else but the characters; everything else can stay the same for all I care. The Tony Hawk games up until Underground 2 had characters who were realistically pro-portioned (perhaps because the skaters you play as were real-life pros themselves), yet even with the childish, cartoonish art style of both T.H.U.G. 2 and American Wasteland, they still function almost exactly similar to previous installments.

I have the feeling that I probably have read that post or posts similar to it as well, and it is a rather stupid conclusion.
My own criticisms are not because I want to go against the crowd and show my 'individuality', but because I feel that a franchise I care about is not being handled well any more.
It can still change should I decide to play a criticized game because I still want to see for myself what it is like.
Heck I played Fallout 3 despite that I knew it was nowhere near the level of Fallout 1 and 2, and I genuinely did not like it because of my own experiences.
I really detest this garbage attitude newer audience harbor towards veteran players who grew up and have played the series for decades. No one decides to just hate something for the simple fact that it's different from what preceded it. I don't know why people just don't ask why others hate a thing before mouthing off baseless assumptions to make it seems as if there isn't any valid criticism to be have with newer installments of a franchise. It's right I don't frequent many forums; I've seen so much of this idiocy that I'm surprised it hasn't imploded on to itself. Christ...

Well I did like the designs for the pirates, the FF dropship, and most of the pirate warships. I would not mind those being, hmm... upscaled or enhanced to fit the regular Prime series more.
That's exactly what I think the remaster should, and probably will be.

Oh I pretty much know what type of thread and poster you are talking about. I have seen sort of similar reactions in some of the Gamefaq threads in the Metroid Dread forum, especially in threads of people who like me posted their doubts about Metroid Dread as they did not enjoy the experience that much and just want to talk about why they feel this is not a good Metroid title.
Some of the posters in that forum are downright assholes towards any dissenting voice.
A LOT of the posters there are assholes, but there are handful of them that have their heads screwed properly. They are bit hard to find, though — like searching for gold.
 
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I loved the way Retro Studios went out of their way to make the worlds of both games feel lived in and detailed.

That is why I find it a bit of a disappointment that events such as the creation of the Metroids, Chozo living on Zebes is so 'recently' rather than centuries in the past as it really gives the player the feeling of the 'weight of centuries', or the distant past still having an impact on the present.

Hopefully, you're still at least in contact with your mom.

Sadly she passed away in 2006. I did not have so much of a fight with her, she simply could not care for me any more as she was dealing with so many issues of her own.

Gaming was my escape of that all at the time, so Metroid Prime 1 and especially 2 came out at the right time.

Anyway, thanks for pointing it out without being obnoxious about at it, like some people would.

"Haha you made a grammar mistake, you are an idiot whose opinion is just based on self delusion and limited intelligence and not truth like mine."

That is rather low and usually done by people who can not come up with a better arguement for their own opinion or thoughts on a subject.
They can't meet you on the intellectual level so they go for the low punches.

There's still some things I disagree with, however, and I ended up being more convinced with the other poster said. The one thing I can't agree however, is that...

Well some of it is based on what I would liked Metroid to have been.
I felt for a while that the other poster was sort of telling me that I should not play Metroid games because I had criticism on the development direction of the series since Metroid Zero Mission and Metroid Prime 3, but that was not the case.

It doesn't make it "over-the-top", nor does it make "ridiculous".

I never had the idea that Metroid was over the top like for example the level of Metal Gear Solid with its retcons.
The Phazon plotline, though not any basis in reality, is still something found in soft science fiction.
Same goes for the X parasites that take inspiration from various sources such as The Thing.

and I feel the hate Sakamoto received because he wrote a bad story and made several questionable decisions in one game in the franchise he's been working on since 1986 to be really stupid. That last is directed towards you,

That I question the guy's writing and more current ideas is not because I still blame him for Other M, I stopped caring about that game ages ago. But I feel he is just not improving in Metroid Dread.

but what about Halo? Wars, and the last two Halo games Bungie made was a side story as an aftermath of the Battle of Earth from Halo 2, and Reach was a prequel to Combat Evolved. I don't think any of the Halo rings were mentioned in those games, aside from a Black Box from Halo: Wars.

I just thought it would make a help a franchise to be more, hmm... less 'restrained', not creating certain expectations.

Like how Star Trek does not require captain Kirk and mr Spock, or Star Wars Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Leia Organa, or the galactic war between the Empire and the Rebellion to appear.

I would not know how to change the name of the Halo franchise to make clear that it takes place in the Halo universe but does not require the eponymous rings to appear in a story.
But that characters from the UNSC and members from the Covenant species could appear as could places from that universe.

For example I did not think that the Metroids had to appear in Metroid Prime 2 seeing as the story was a sort of follow up story to the Phazon plot in MP1, but the primary focus being on the aftermath of the conflict between the Luminoth and the Ing.
Even in Metroid Prime 3 the Metroids kind of felt like they were included as they previously also had played a role. The main plot was about Dark Samus spreading Phazon corruption.
It does not play easily of the tongue but I would perhaps have called it something like The Tales of Samus Aran to indicate that these are games about the missions she undertakes which can include a variety of different places and antagonists.
Of course that limits spin offs that don't revolve around her missions such as Federation Force.

As I said, the namesake doesn't need to be referenced or appear in every entry of a series. As long as it retains much of the franchise iconic imagery and lore, then it's fine. It's only a requirement if the franchise in question is lacking in world-building and/or lore.

Eh, how do you mean?
If a game is made that feels it is barely connected to the franchise that a Metroid, space pirates or Ridley appears?

Since the only Wii titles for Metroid were Corruption and Other M, it's probably best to just stick with tradition FPS controls for Hunters if it ever gets a remaster/remake.

I can be wrong but didn't the Wii U version have that?

I really detest this garbage attitude newer audience harbor towards veteran players who grew up and have played the series for decades. No one decides to just hate something for the simple fact that it's different from what preceded it. I don't know why people just don't ask why others hate a thing before mouthing off baseless assumptions to make it seems as if there isn't any valid criticism to be have with newer installments of a franchise. It's right I don't frequent many forums; I've seen so much of this idiocy that I'm surprised it hasn't imploded on to itself. Christ...

Well it is a recurring problem with fandoms as they grow older, especially when newer entries cause a lot of division among the fanbase.
A lot of new fans may actually like the changes and this is the reason why they decided to become fans of the franchise. But when they meet up with older fans who do not share their enthusiasm for the new entries and its changed lore or gameplay, they start to dismiss these older fans' opinions.
It is not so much about what the fans have in common any more, instead what part of the fandom is more superior. And the newcomers usually see themselves as falling under that category.

That's exactly what I think the remaster should, and probably will be.

Well I wouldn't not mind if Nintendo did this upscaling or model replacement if it is not too technically problematic.
 
That is why I find it a bit of a disappointment that events such as the creation of the Metroids, Chozo living on Zebes is so 'recently' rather than centuries in the past as it really gives the player the feeling of the 'weight of centuries', or the distant past still having an impact on the present.
That could've worked — it'd probably could've been better than what we got, but what we got was still pretty good. I don't think the series needed this particular theme. With Fallout, it's crucial, but having Metroids being created, and Chozo living on Zebes while raising Samus makes her, and by extension, the audience, all that more relevant to the going-ons in the galaxy. I don't think this could be convey in the same way with they were created long before she was born.

Sadly she passed away in 2006. I did not have so much of a fight with her, she simply could not care for me any more as she was dealing with so many issues of her own.
My condolences.

"Haha you made a grammar mistake, you are an idiot whose opinion is just based on self delusion and limited intelligence and not truth like mine."

That is rather low and usually done by people who can not come up with a better arguement for their own opinion or thoughts on a subject.
They can't meet you on the intellectual level so they go for the low punches.
To be fair, though, I did have an aggressive tone before we argued. I don't want to get to specific with this, but it was on abortion... on YouTube, of course (because that's always a great site to have civil debates).

Regardless, I am guilty of doing this exact thing. The only difference is that the people I belittled blatantly misspelled things on purpose, and mostly, the way people respond deters how I will respond to them. Be an asshole, and I'm gonna return the favor. If I'm being an asshole and you don't make any jabs about my attitude, I'll calm down.

That I question the guy's writing and more current ideas is not because I still blame him for Other M, I stopped caring about that game ages ago. But I feel he is just not improving in Metroid Dread.
Fair enough, but I still think we have very little to go on after Other M, and I still have to credit him for directing Super and Fusion, and his guidance of Retro Studios on Prime.

I would not know how to change the name of the Halo franchise to make clear that it takes place in the Halo universe but does not require the eponymous rings to appear in a story.
But that characters from the UNSC and members from the Covenant species could appear as could places from that universe.
The name "Halo" wouldn't need a change name, anyway, because its iconography is familiar and distinct that the one thing that everyone agrees on about Infinite is how it resembles the art style from the original trilogy more than any of main games since Reach.

Eh, how do you mean?
If a game is made that feels it is barely connected to the franchise that a Metroid, space pirates or Ridley appears?
This wording of this question has me confused. Dread had none of these things, yet still carries the Metroid moniker proudly because of what it accomplishes. That's what I'm getting at it. As long as the game is still designed as a Metroid game, plays like a Metroid game, still has the style of a Metroid game. That's all I really want.

I can be wrong but didn't the Wii U version have that?
I didn't know about Hunters being ported to Wii U until I read this. From what I was able to gather, it simply replaces aiming with the stylus with face buttons — none of which will allow the player to lock on enemies.


Well it is a recurring problem with fandoms as they grow older, especially when newer entries cause a lot of division among the fanbase.
It's a damn shame to see the Fallout community as fractured as it because of this.
 
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Triforce Heroes was better received than Federation. Mostly because Zelda gets plenty of games.
 
Hello 5545Trey,

I did not mean to make you wait for so long for another response. My mind was rather all over the place and not where I wanted it to be.

That could've worked — it'd probably could've been better than what we got, but what we got was still pretty good. I don't think the series needed this particular theme. With Fallout, it's crucial, but having Metroids being created, and Chozo living on Zebes while raising Samus makes her, and by extension, the audience, all that more relevant to the going-ons in the galaxy. I don't think this could be convey in the same way with they were created long before she was born.

I don't know. It reeks so much of 'small universe' to me in which everything needs to be connected and nothing can have developed in isolation from each other.
It it something I have often detested in science fiction franchises as they grow older. Not everything needs to be connected like how Weyland Yutani is revealed to have always had some kind of connection with the alien and the Space Jockeys.
I may have written it to you before but it feels like something a fan fiction writer would do, one who really doesn't have any ideas of his or her own or has some kind of obsession to connect everything with another.
It also kind of eliminates the mystery.

I am not sure if it makes the Samus, Chozo, Metroid connection more relevant. It feels more 'convenient' to me. That is probably not the right word.
But there is not much that I can change about it any more. It is now an established fact that needs to be worked with in the future.
I guess the lesson I can take from this is that it is something I would avoid when I should make up various ideas set in the same setting and never had a connection between all of them in the first place.
I just hope it won't go the whole convoluted MGS route in which absolutely everything needs to be connected in the future when new ideas are made up for new species, plot devices, etc.

My condolences.

Thank you but it has been a very long time ago and sometimes these days I am very angry at my mother for having me, or leaving me a share of issues that still trouble me today.
Of course I also had a hand in some of those myself.

To be fair, though, I did have an aggressive tone before we argued. I don't want to get to specific with this, but it was on abortion... on YouTube, of course (because that's always a great site to have civil debates).

I did feel a little of "How dare you have an opinion that is counter to mine and the majority of the fandom" feeling, and that tends to send me into a defensive mode as it makes me feel that whatever I say or write, unless I back it up with iron clad arguments which I find difficult to think up and write, it will be torn down or disregarded because the majority is always right.
Then I also feel like "why should anyone ever try to talk with you guys, you basically treat every change and new addition as being unquestionable and good.", or "if you are willing to swallow this now and disregard the opinion of other people because you like it, even being nasty to them because they feel different, then who cares about your opinion when eventually something like a game franchise takes a turn you decide you don't like. Shut up and keep swallowing, you used to do it pretty well before so why can't you now anymore?"
So that really does not start me on the right foot either, especially when I don't seek to start a conflict about opinions that could get nasty and personal, but just want to talk about why I feel the direction a story, a setting, or a franchise has taken is in my opinion not a good one.

BTW, what I just wrote was not intentionally targeted at you 5545Trey, these are more thoughts and feelings I have in general when I experience such situations.

Abortion is a difficult subject and I don't have a clear opinion on it either. I feel that a woman's body is their own, but I have been sort of coming back on my opinion on abortion, especially after I heard about the decline of Western population numbers.
I don't believe in abstinence as enforced by religion as I dislike how religions and their leaders want to decide how you should think and feel, and they themselves often not sticking to these rules or guidelines themselves.
It also makes people unnecessary uncomfortable and leaves them in the dark about sex because they never got any education on it and what the possible consequences can be if people are not careful.
But I also don't like a lot of the irresponsible behavior of that everything should be allowed as long as long as it does not hurt anyone and is pleasurable.
People often want the rights but not the responsibility that comes with it. And as for not hurting, quite some stories about people who did things because it was pleasurable for themselves but not for their partner or partners.
But now I rather digress. A very difficult topic I wish I was wiser in.

And Youtube is a cesspool. I hate that I am so addicted to the place.

Fair enough, but I still think we have very little to go on after Other M, and I still have to credit him for directing Super and Fusion, and his guidance of Retro Studios on Prime.

I don't know how big his role was on the development of Metroid Prime other than perhaps a lore consultant.
I understand that Shigeru Miyamoto and Kensuke Tanabe played a much bigger role in the Metroid Prime series.

The name "Halo" would need a change name, anyway, because its iconography is familiar and distinct that the one thing that everyone agrees on about Infinite is how it resembles the art style from the original trilogy more than any of main games since Reach.

The funny thing is that I that like 343 went back to the original Halo because their own efforts to expand beyond it fell flat.
Several times the direction of the series has changed because people working on it got replaced by someone else who has their own vision and ideas on how the series should progress. And of course executive meddling from above by people who have barely any idea about the franchise's content and design and think that a return to old formulas will result in new entries getting the same success as older games and make even more money.

What annoyed me in the main campaigns of the last three games is that the plotlines kept changing.

Halo 4 seemed to be all about the Forerunners and learning more about them and the possible threat they could pose if they should suddenly return to the galactic scene and decide to rebuild their empire.
Not very original but it works.
I am not sure about all the revelations in the Forerunner book saga about the ancient Forerunner Empire, an ancient human empire, the involvement of the Precursors, and the connection with the Flood, but I am not as invested in Halo as some people are.

Then Halo 5 was all about Cortana who has become rampant and decided that she and the other 'created' are the most suitable inheritors of the Forerunner's legacy and that they should govern the galaxy and rule over organic species.
We have Master Chief who is apparently on some quest to save Cortana and a new group of Spartans who are after him.

I found out later that the main villain of Halo 4 was quickly killed off in a sequel comic series to Halo 4. It actually makes me question why he was introduced in the first place.

And then we came to Halo Infinite.
Apparently the Created, the Prometheans, and other new elements in Halo 4 and 5 had not been so well received, so 343 decided to go back to the plot of Halo 1, putting Master Chief on a Halo fighting the 'not Convenant'.
This was a faction of renegade former Convenant members that were first introduced in Halo Wars 2 which opens yet another plot thread that seems to go nowhere. Well not unless a Halo Wars 3 is made which I highly doubt, I put my money on this being 'resolved' in a book.
And now we have the threat of the Endless, a species that is apparently even worse than the Flood, and that survived the previous firing of the Halos to deprive the Flood of a food source.
They are so much of a threat that the Forerunners locked them up on Halo 07.

At this point I feel 343 just throws things against the wall to see what actually sticks.
That I know all of this crap makes me feel that I wasted a good deal of my time that I could have spend on something more productive.

I did not even mention all the books and comics yet.
I feel for the Halo fans who try to stick with the franchise despite all the twists and turns it has taken, MS expecting them to come back and buy the games, season tickets, and the spin off media which keeps dragging on and on.
I can fully understand if some fans only care for the multiplayer gameplay and don't give a shit about the lore any more.

This wording of this question has me confused. Dread had none of these things, yet still carries the Metroid moniker proudly because of what it accomplishes. That's what I'm getting at it. As long as the game is still designed as a Metroid game, plays like a Metroid game, still has the style of a Metroid game. That's all I really want.

I actually had to think about this one myself as well as I had forgotten my original thoughts when I wrote this.
I think what I meant was; if a new game in the franchise feels so disconnected from the other Metroid games because of gameplay and world design, that Metroids or Space Pirates should appear to make clear that this is still a Metroid game?

Well as I told you before, Metroid Dread might as well have been called Space Hunter Samus Aran if all the references to previous games had been removed.
I guess it comes down to what makes a Metroid game feel like a Metroid game, what makes it clear this is a Metroid game.

The design philosophy behind the series is not unique any more as we now have had dozens of new games that copied how a Metroid game plays, the path of progression, puzzles, etc.
Not to mention games that copied its sci fi aesthetics.

I am now actually trying to determine for myself what makes a Metroid game feel like it belongs in the series.

It's a damn shame to see the Fallout community as fractured as it because of this.

Yeah, I am also very deeply unhappy about it, especially when I read in other threads such as the Chris Avellone one that he felt that direction the franchise has been going is a fine one as it now attracts more audience and sells better.
I still intend to write a response in that topic as well.

I can then understand why Toront wants to completely disassociate himself from the franchise at that point.
Why should you still give a fuck about the lore and gameplay of the franchise when these can be changed on the whim of whatever developer is handling it at the moment and it is considered logical progression by some.

If you want a PA game with different lore and gameplay, create a new IP.
Should it turn out decent because the developers really put effort into it and have passion about their ideas, it would be a welcome addition to the PA games library.

I don't hate spin offs with different gameplay because the company owning the IP wants to expand in different genres and bring in a different audience.
Fallout Tactics in general worked fine. I would only have some of the lore modified and removed things like the human level thinking and talking Deathclaws.

With FOBOS the problem was that it wanted to do Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance in the Fallout setting, but without the effort that was put in that game, mangling the lore, and doing it quick and cheaply. When I played BGDA2 it made me think of what a team could have done with a Fallout version if the team had the time, the resources, and was more true to the lore.

An action-rpg FPS like FNV would also have been a fine spin off set between Fallout 2 and Fallout Van Buren. It setting up the starting situation such as the recent war between the NCR and the Legion, the NCR having won but having become weakened in the process.
Of course some other lore would also have to be modified.
I still have to accept that FNV is the follow up to Fallout 2 and not Van Buren.

Sorry, I keep straying from the main topic because I keep thinking of other ones, my mind somewhere seeing a connection and then deciding to follow that path of thought.

Anyway, I don't think this is a problem that can be avoided.
I have experienced the same in Star Trek and Star Wars.
I have also lost a lot of my respect and adoration for the people who work or used to work on these IPs.
 
Triforce Heroes was better received than Federation. Mostly because Zelda gets plenty of games.

Yeah, Zelda has always been a better seller.
I don't think that Nintendo should use Zelda as an example for Metroid games even if both IPs share some creative seeds with each other.
But who knows, while a Metroid take on a Zelda multiplayer game failed, perhaps a Metroid version of Breath of the Wild would be successful.

What I wonder is how Sakamoto would want to implement a plot like as in Dread as in such a Metroid game as BotW was much more 'free form', the players themselves being able to choose what path of progression to follow.

I have been proven wrong before. A couple of years ago I found out about a Sonic fan project that actually made a Metroidvania style Sonic game I acknowledged as being good in both gameplay and storyline.
This showed that spin offs can be done well, it is the effort that goes into them.
Of course it helps if an IP is also well established with a fandom that is interested in spin offs.
 
Hello 5545Trey,

I did not mean to make you wait for so long for another response. My mind was rather all over the place and not where I wanted it to be.
No worries. My computer crapped on me thrice (third time in the last 12 months, almost), so I'm also guilty of this, as well. I just got a new PC, yesterday, but I still need to extract loads of data from my two HDDs.

I don't know. It reeks so much of 'small universe' to me in which everything needs to be connected and nothing can have developed in isolation from each other.

I may have written it to you before but it feels like something a fan fiction writer would do, one who really doesn't have any ideas of his or her own or has some kind of obsession to connect everything with another.
It also kind of eliminates the mystery.
I guess it does make the canon seem less epic in scale, though I feel Metroid is in a unique position in which while it seems confined and plain, I think the mystique is still strong. The series was birthed in an era when games were beats-'n'-boops — in which everything relating to story was on a manual and/or a strategy guide. I don't think the director is necessarily trying to make every single facet of the Metroid lore connected, but the lore is pretty straight-forward, and it doesn't take newcomers a long time to figure it all. This was always the case with the series.


I did feel a little of "How dare you have an opinion that is counter to mine and the majority of the fandom" feeling, and that tends to send me into a defensive mode as it makes me feel that whatever I say or write, unless I back it up with iron clad arguments which I find difficult to think up and write, it will be torn down or disregarded because the majority is always right.
I think we've all felt that way at some point. I know I did, and to tell you the truth, I still do it on occasion.


Then I also feel like "why should anyone ever try to talk with you guys, you basically treat every change and new addition as being unquestionable and good.", or "if you are willing to swallow this now and disregard the opinion of other people because you like it, even being nasty to them because they feel different, then who cares about your opinion when eventually something like a game franchise takes a turn you decide you don't like. Shut up and keep swallowing, you used to do it pretty well before so why can't you now anymore?"
So that really does not start me on the right foot either, especially when I don't seek to start a conflict about opinions that could get nasty and personal, but just want to talk about why I feel the direction a story, a setting, or a franchise has taken is in my opinion not a good one.

BTW, what I just wrote was not intentionally targeted at you 5545Trey, these are more thoughts and feelings I have in general when I experience such situations.
I understand. This is something I've seen way too often on internet, and I'll elaborate further in the next paragraph.


Abortion, Religion, and Irresponsibilty of Sexual Freedom

People often want the rights but not the responsibility that comes with it. And as for not hurting, quite some stories about people who did things because it was pleasurable for themselves but not for their partner or partners.
But now I rather digress. A very difficult topic I wish I was wiser in.

And Youtube is a cesspool. I hate that I am so addicted to the place.
Couldn't have said better, myself. There really is some great content on YouTube, but it's marred by cringe-inducing reaction videos, tired and lame memes and trends, out of touch commenters, aggressive, insult-laden debates, some of the most hostile politics I've ever seen, and generally stupid decisions regarding the platform's structure and layout.

To add on to not being able to accept the opinions of others, I think the fact that so many people have this warped, negative perception of nostalgia as something to be embarrassed of, rather than a longing for the good memories you had, is so disheartening to witness. People are willing to tell you how "blinded" you are by nostalgia, even if it's something that you didn't particular grew up with. Just a few hours ago, I clicked on a thread I took part in before in a video that dismantles this fallacious ad honinem of an "argument" (it's the first post you see when you scroll through the comment section, and you'll find my alias, "Arena1999, there), but I saw a bunch of people missing the point of the original comment (in the thread) and the video were trying to convey. I initially only wanted to respond to the person who replied to my comment, but I ended responding to several other comments not relating to me, because these idiots were seriously trying to justify this BS with a ficitious group of people who just unabashedly hate on everything that's "new". Even if those people existed (which they don't, because no one just decides to hate on stuff that's new; that's absurd), it doesn't change the fact that people use the term to dismisss an opinion. Not out of the fact that the recipient of this attack hates everything new, but because they stated an OPINION on something. It's something that happens way too often, just for having a preference in something older.

I don't know how big his role was on the development of Metroid Prime other than perhaps a lore consultant. I understand that Shigeru Miyamoto and Kensuke Tanabe played a much bigger role in the Metroid Prime series.
They did, but he's still credited as being "very helpful" and "available" during the development of the first two games — supervising the backtracking and the story. It's a small role, but I feel the Prime games would be more than different if he wasn't there to check up on Retro every now and then. Honestly, if you look at the hatred people harbored over Sakamoto after Other M, it makes all the bashing he received just for having a bad video game script and strange design choices ridiculous in hindsight.


The funny thing is that I that like 343 went back to the original Halo because their own efforts to expand beyond it fell flat.
Only in aesthetics, though. 343 needed to also observe what made CE, specifically, as great as it was. Still the best Halo game by a long shot. Should also mention that I meant "wouldn't" in my last post.

Campaign in the last few Halo games being very inconsistent in terms of cohesion, being more or less self-contained stories than chapters of a new saga

At this point I feel 343 just throws things against the wall to see what actually sticks.
That I know all of this crap makes me feel that I wasted a good deal of my time that I could have spend on something more productive.

I did not even mention all the books and comics yet.
I feel for the Halo fans who try to stick with the franchise despite all the twists and turns it has taken, MS expecting them to come back and buy the games, season tickets, and the spin off media which keeps dragging on and on.
I can fully understand if some fans only care for the multiplayer gameplay and don't give a shit about the lore any more.
I stopped caring about the story when Halo 5 was released. When a game assumes you've already read supplementary material so you can grasp its own narrative, then it's a failure of story-writing. Period. There's no argument for this; there's no reason why people should a read book just to understand a game's story. It needs to stand on its own.


I actually had to think about this one myself as well as I had forgotten my original thoughts when I wrote this.
I think what I meant was; if a new game in the franchise feels so disconnected from the other Metroid games because of gameplay and world design, that Metroids or Space Pirates should appear to make clear that this is still a Metroid game?

Well as I told you before, Metroid Dread might as well have been called Space Hunter Samus Aran if all the references to previous games had been removed.
I guess it comes down to what makes a Metroid game feel like a Metroid game, what makes it clear this is a Metroid game.
I still stand by my argument that Metroid doesn't necessarily need familiar iconography such as its namesake and Space Pirates to be Metroid. It just needs Samus, and desolate planet to collect items, and some lore for good measure.

The design philosophy behind the series is not unique any more as we now have had dozens of new games that copied how a Metroid game plays, the path of progression, puzzles, etc.
Not to mention games that copied its sci fi aesthetics.
But no game does it better than Metroid. Besides, its design philosophy is still the series' DNA, and as long as it adheres to that philosophy while keeping it fresh, I think it'll continue to prosper.

Yeah, I am also very deeply unhappy about it, especially when I read in other threads such as the Chris Avellone one that he felt that direction the franchise has been going is a fine one as it now attracts more audience and sells better.
I still intend to write a response in that topic as well.
Yeah... that's something I strongly disagree with, because the developers that owns the IP hasn't done a good job trying to build upon it in a meaningfully since they brought back in mid-2000s. It attracted people and sold better as a result; both of those apply to Fallout 3 and 4, but 76 is a different story.

Don't mean to skip the rest of your post, but I don't have anything to add, since I agree with just about all of it. I still do care about the first two games, as well as New Vegas, and would love to see a follow-up to the latter someday, even if it seems like wishful thinking at this point. I never had a problem accepting NV as a follow-up to FO2. It was, and I didn't need a number to tell me that it was "Fallout 3, But Better".
 
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