Muties in Fallout 4

Someguy37 said:
Mr Fish said:
Right, robots, fair enough. But are they equipped to deal with the Super Mutants though?
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-The synths fight super mutants in Boston sometimes, and I've seen them win.
-As for how they knew it was there, same way they knew about Vault 111, old pre-war records. Vault-Tec was sloppy as all hell when it came to "hiding" their grand experiment.
-And the synths would have gotten into Vault 87 over 100 years ago, why would any evidence of that be left? The super mutants would have scrapped any of the destroyed synths ages ago.

Mr Fish said:
Yet in Book 1 it was never alluded to at all. All of the sudden it's brought up like this huge thing that they've been struggling with for a while and it makes no sense with the first book. In FO3 there is nothing what so ever that says this happened and in FO4 with the information we have of The Institute we are to believe they managed to get a sample of FEV from Vault 87 without leaving a mark?
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And nothing in Fallout 1 hinted that the Vaults were secret experiments by a shadow government from before the war that survived in an off shore oil rig...... and that's a pretty big deal about Vaults in general. Every long running game series has those sort of things because the developers don't know every single thing they would want to do in the future when making their first game.

Mr Fish said:
Kinda like the Enclave appearing in Vault 87 through plot convenience.
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BoS members in Fallout 3 do state The Enclave has far better anti-rad tech. They just used the front door. You can even go back to Vault 87, and the door Autumn came in from is still open, and it leads into the main entrance chamber of Vault 87, which has a perfectly functional vault door. They literally just walked in with their advanced tech.
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1a. Yeah but that's synths, we're talking about events 100 years prior to that.
1b. I don't get that. Nothing in Fallout 1 and 2 from as far as I've seen has implied that Vault-Tec was sloppy with hiding the vaults away from one another. I mean that's one of the big reasons why it is so difficult for your character to find vaults in either of the games.
1c. Because... Dude... There are still skeletons from the nuclear war that have been in fixed positions for 200+ years without anyone interfering with them. It's about being consistent.

2. Why would there be anything like that? There is no reason for Vault 13, 15 and 8 to have information on terminals or whatever that explicitly go "I am Mr President and I condone these psychological experiments that are super secret." There would be no hints for this to be the case for these vaults. And I dunno what the vault was but the one where the door wasn't meant to close did indicate that, didn't it? That it wasn't meant to close properly.

3. Wait, they did? I never went back there and checked anything like that out. Even so, it is still plot convenience and poor writing. And super rad medicine is just stupid as well. In Fallout 1 we can pump ourselves full of Rad-X and go into The Glow but we can't reach 100% rad resistance in Fallout 3 and go through the main door? We have to go through Little Lamplight? Uh-huh. But Enclave doesn't. Cause they got deus ex machina and gets to go through main door. Poor writing just so that they could have the Enclave abduction scene.

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As to the super mutant experiments; It is idiotically mind-numbingly bad writing. I mean, ok, let's say they did get a hold of FEV. Let's say they did manage to replicate it because they're the mothafucking Institute, marvel of the wasteland and the envy of Big Mountain. Fine. Why the flying fuck would they create enough super mutants to allow them to break out? I mean, they're scientists, they should have figured this shit out. Only create enough super mutants to experiment on and nothing more. Once you've run your tests and you want a new batch you destroy the previous batch first. You don't let them out. The numbers of super mutants in Fallout 4 is absurd. How the hell did they reach such numbers? They ain't got any FEV. And why haven't they been killed off yet? I mean, in Fallout 4's setting a feral ghoul can outrank a super mutant because it is legendary. Again, consistency is important. Super Mutants can't reproduce so they'd be a finite number that would have died out or been in extremely reduced numbers, like half a dozen taking refuge somewhere and trying to avoid armed conflict at all costs. Instead we get suicide mutants...
 
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Hardboiled Android said:
Speaking of teleportation technology, they would need to use that to remove those hundreds of mutants... and they're always going on about how much power it takes... Wouldn't it be more effort to send them to the surface than to just... y'know... kill them and dissect them?
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Just to build off of this, in the FEV lab, all subjects are mentioned to be deceased. So... how are they getting to the surface?
 
Mr Fish said:
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1a Gen 1 synths have been around for long before the Institute kidnapped Shaun. We see them in Kellogg's flashbacks, from before 60 years ago.
1b. Fallout 1 and 2 took place mostly in the middle of the desert. Yeah, theres really not going to be a lot of pre-war records from that time left in areas that never had them in the first place.
1c. But those skeletons have nothing to do with Vault 87. That no one picked up some skeletons inside some buildings or cars no one uses has nothing to do with the super mutants trashing some robots.

2. Because the overseers would have to have been in on the "secret" in order for them to work properly. Indeed, its said the overseer in Fallout 1 banished you because your return would have disrupted the experiment. 80+ years of passing down master plans would have left some trace. Like the kinds we find in 3/NV/4, were the overseers terminals usually have an *eyes only* message for them detailing "the plan".

3. Games have been doing that kind of thing for decades. Many RPGs, FPSs, and the like have doors only NPCs can use for various reason. The "this wooden door is locked and needs a key, but I can't simply blast through it with my rocket launcher because PLOT!" is a trope for a reason.

4.
-The Enclave was able to replicate FEV, you don't need to be Big MT level to do it.
-Who says they broke out? The Institute could have very easily just LET them out for any number of reasons. They might have let them out to see how they would perform on the surface world, and to gather data from that so they could make changes needed to improve the FEV strain they were working with.
-They have the numbers they do because The Institute was making super mutants for over 100 years in an attempt to make a strain of FEV that didn't suck. They had 100 years to kidnap people and transform them, and we can see how many synths they were able to make in just 60 years time. Its not like they only did the FEV experiment for 5 years then stopped.
 
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Also, the Minutemen defended Diamond City from Mutants in 2180, 87 years before the Institute began work on FEV. So it's literally impossible that the Institute is producing them.
 
Someguy37 said:
As I have said before, if you had played the game, you would know the answer to those questions.

Vault 81 is largely sealed off, they rarely trade with outsiders, so The Institute wouldn't have a chance to infiltrate it and capture everyone. And by the time they found out about Vault 111, they had already decided the FEV project was largely a failure, and so used it for their synth project.

And, again, all of those people are people that already exist in the world, they don't appear out of thin air. Which is the difference to The Institute making a farm out of fake people no one has ever met or heard of before. Is English your second language or something?
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Yeah, imagine if vault 81 asked for something like 3 fusion cores or something stupid like that to allow the institute agents inside.
If a synth agent would get in, for killing 10 molerats and getting a cure, he would get a nice residence too!
 
Empty09 said:
Yeah, imagine if vault 81 asked for something like 3 fusion cores or something stupid like that to allow the institute agents inside.
If a synth agent would get in, for killing 10 molerats and getting a cure, he would get a nice residence too!
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As I recall, that deal was only offered because you have a pipboy
 
Hardboiled Android said:
How and why do you think the Mutants are getting to the surface, someguy?
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The Institute is sending them up there for whatever reason.

Likely to see how much better/worse they fare compared to previous versions of the strains they are working on, so they can gather data on what they need to change/improve.

They don't exactly have a lot of room down there to run each super mutant through the gambit of tests and situations needed to see how they perform at various functions. As I recall, they only had a few holding cells barely large enough to keep one super mutant in them each.
 
Walpknut said:
Where did the Institute even get so many people to turn into Super Mutants? THere are enough of them to keep a sizable population after 100 years even tho there are some of them who just run into enemies to kill themselves with mininukes even close to some of their own friends....
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Not to mention even getting out of the Institute is physically impossible unless you use the teleporter or blow a massive hole in the ceiling. So unless the Institute purposefully released them into the Commonwealth for some reason (which would be a gigantic dick move that utterly annihilates any moral grounds they could possibly have in their ''humanity, redefined'' shtick), how did so many of them make their way out? Did entire warbands fight their way to the teleporter, activate it (despite being morons) and escape? If so, why didn't they just take over the place anyway?

Besides, we see the Mutant creation labs, and they consist of 3 tanks. Not a massive vat like those in Mariposa or those implied Vault 87. Despite this, the Commonwealth is filled with the damn things. Either they have some secret way of reproducing, or their presence makes no sense. And you know what, I'm going to apply Occam's Razor and assume Bethesda failed at building a coherent world in favor of giving the player things to shoot, because it's what they do most of the time.
 
Someguy37 said:
Hardboiled Android said:
How and why do you think the Mutants are getting to the surface, someguy?
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The Institute is sending them up there for whatever reason.

Likely to see how much better/worse they fare compared to previous versions of the strains they are working on, so they can gather data on what they need to change/improve.

They don't exactly have a lot of room down there to run each super mutant through the gambit of tests and situations needed to see how they perform at various functions. As I recall, they only had a few holding cells barely large enough to keep one super mutant in them each.
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They also don't have enough room to be producing all these mutants, do they?

And won't it take a metric shit ton of energy to be beaming them up to the surface?
 
Hardboiled Android said:
They also don't have enough room to be producing all these mutants, do they?

And won't it take a metric shit ton of energy to be beaming them up to the surface?
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And Boston is only what, 1.5 miles across in-game? and The Institute itself has what, 15 scientist total + like 30 synths? Its a game, and its abstracted.

Probably, but we see how many synths they manage to beam up to the surface on a daily basis, and that seems not too overtaxing for them.
 
Someguy37 said:
Empty09 said:
Yeah, imagine if vault 81 asked for something like 3 fusion cores or something stupid like that to allow the institute agents inside.
If a synth agent would get in, for killing 10 molerats and getting a cure, he would get a nice residence too!
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As I recall, that deal was only offered because you have a pipboy
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Imagine if the Institute accessed vault 111 and got one! Oh wait, snap...SHAON!
 
Empty09 said:
Imagine if the Institute accessed vault 111 and got one! Oh wait, snap...SHAON!
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The only person with a pipboy in Vault 111 was the guy you took yours from.

None of the Vault dwellers were given pipboys because, you know, they were meant to be frozen, and thus didn't need one.
 
fakeangel said:
What if there was only that one pipboy because the institute picked all the others?
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Or maybe there was only one for the same reason none of the dead vault dwellers in Fo3, NV, or Fo4 had ones on their arms.... because they weren't given any.

Only Vaults where the people were supposed to stay alive for extended periods of time were seemingly given enough pipboys to give to everyone.
 
Someguy37 said:
Hardboiled Android said:
They also don't have enough room to be producing all these mutants, do they?

And won't it take a metric shit ton of energy to be beaming them up to the surface?
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And Boston is only what, 1.5 miles across in-game? and The Institute itself has what, 15 scientist total + like 30 synths? Its a game, and its abstracted.

Probably, but we see how many synths they manage to beam up to the surface on a daily basis, and that seems not too overtaxing for them.
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Most Synths are small, especially without skin, or human-sized. Muties are almost twice as tall, must have close to thrice the mass of a human if not more (remember, square/cube law) and thus would take even more power to teleport I'd assume.

It also begs a logistical question. So the Institute takes the time to kidnap someone, which takes three teleports (for the Synth getting out, and the same coming back with its quarry), keep them locked up and fed, stick them in a vat until they are pumped full of FEV and grow into a Mutant, restrain them somehow once transformation is complete, cart them to the teleporter and hit the switch again to send them back.

Among other things, this consumes their admitedly dwindling reserves of power no less than four times for each mutant. For a complete dead-end project that they have no need of whatsoever. And given the vast numbers of mutants, they have been doing that for a long time with quite the diligence. And this adds even more dangers to the Commonwealth for no reason whatsoever beyond ''here guys, have our extremely dangerous failed projects, by the way we totally care about humanity's greater good''.

So what I'm gathering is, the creation of Super Mutants makes the Institute wasteful, amoral and inept, all in one, if we accept the premise that they created and released every single Mutie out there.
 
Ilosar said:
So what I'm gathering is, the creation of Super Mutants makes the Institute wasteful, amoral and inept, all in one, if we accept the premise that they created and released every single Mutie out there.
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That was sort of the point of The Institute.

Its even mentioned in the FEV logs that basically the entire FEV project team concluded that continued work on the FEV project was a waste, yet the directorate at the time kept them doing it, and even after Shaun became the director, he STILL had them doing it until just a few months ago when Vigil was supposedly "killed". The scientists in The Institute working on the project said it was a waste 50 years ago, and they were still forced to keep doing it.

And Shaun says himself that The Institute doesn't care about the surface world, they see it as broken and unsaveable, and want to dig deeper underground to get away from it. Despite the fact it was The Institute themselves who sent synths to kill everyone at the meeting between settlements trying to form a new government to bring some sort of stability to The Commonwealth.

The Institue is supposed to be like the Fallout 2 Enclave, or the scientists at Big MT., they are so caught up in their own shit they can't see that THEY are the problem they constantly complain about.
 
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