Muuuuuuuslim Baaaaaan! But don't call it that!

[CT Phipps]

Which, again, is the problem. If the people in power aren't of the agenda, nothing gets done. The DNC is not going to change, nor will the Democrats - Schumer and Feinstein and Pelosi will die with Neoliberalism implanted into their bodies before bowing their heads to a SocDem. By the time the Berners get into power, we're talking about 2030, 2040 at the earliest.

The corruption of the DNC is nothing shocking and has been a problem for some time. However, we're already seeing a move leftword and Bernie was a candidate who had a serious chance to achieve his position. I'm not saying it's going to happen but it's not an insurmountable problem. Trump, for all my dislike of his policies, does represent the Dark Horse candidate's potential.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Speaking of which, a new decree by Trump says that for every new regulation two other regulations should be eliminated, or something like that I would have to look in to the the details, which as far as I can tell is the follow up to a meeting he had with some leading managers of the US, where he promised that he would get rid of 75% of the regulations, maybe even more, and I think he was talking about regulations in general.
I mean hey, who needs clean air and water, right? A bit of lead or fine particles hasn't killed anyone.

Also, fake news:
Almost immediately, various news outlets and political figures depicted the shooter as Muslim. Right-wing nationalist tabloids in the U.K. instantly linked it to Islamic violence. Fox News claimed that “witnesses said at least one gunman shouted ‘Allahu akbar!’” and then added this about the shooter’s national origin:


Suspect in Quebec mosque terror attack was of Moroccan origin, reports show https://t.co/oRzxGHEXDm pic.twitter.com/aEsEtccMvi


— Fox News (@FoxNews) January 30, 2017

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30...as-a-moroccan-muslim-hes-a-white-nationalist/

 

[Dr Fallout]

Muslim guy shot Muslim mosque.

Anyone BUT a white European Christian.

 

[CaptJ]

Why did the Left do this to itself? Very few in the mainstream media are willing to condemn openly racist groups like BlackLivesMatter. The store owner affected by the riots are brushed off to the side as if they were just collateral damage. It feels like people are more loyal to their political parties than their principles.

 

[MutantScalper]

Why did the Right do this to itself? Very few in the mainstream media are willing to condemn openly racist groups like alt-right, tea party, KKK, etc. The ethnic groups affected by the right wing policies are brushed off to the side as if they were just collateral damage. It feels like people are more loyal to their political parties than their principles.

 

[CT Phipps]

Why did the Left do this to itself? Very few in the mainstream media are willing to condemn openly racist groups like BlackLivesMatter. The store owner affected by the riots are brushed off to the side as if they were just collateral damage. It feels like people are more loyal to their political parties than their principles.

My view on the subject that there's an inordinate number of Black men killed by police violence for no damn good reason makes me inclined to think a group focused on stopping that specifically isn't a bad thing.

Then again, your example makes me remember Do the Right Thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_the_Right_Thing

One thing which I always remembered about that movie was Spike Lee made it clear burning down the pizza shop owner's store was an expression of rage which did nothing good but ruin an innocent man's life.

 

[CaptJ]

Very few in the mainstream media are willing to condemn openly racist groups like alt-right, tea party, KKK, etc.

"Nazi" frogs memes given life by overreaction, annoying stupid but ultimately harmless protesters, an old fossil that people keep digging up for discussing contemporary politics or drawing heavy handed political cartoons, and some unspecified groups which would be used in this argument regardless.

My view on the subject that there's an inordinate number of Black men killed by police violence for no damn good reason makes me inclined to think a group focused on stopping that specifically isn't a bad thing.

Then again, your example makes me remember Do the Right Thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_the_Right_Thing

One thing which I always remembered about that movie was Spike Lee made it clear burning down the pizza shop owner's store was an expression of rage which did nothing good but ruin an innocent man's life.

They are pretty awful at picking their martyrs. Besides, good intentions isn't enough. The "end justifies the means" isn't a moral code because it relies too much on certainty of future outcomes. It is gambling on your soul. How does one redeem oneself from evil actions done for the greater good if he fails? A sin of pride can't be washed off by good intentions.

 

[CT Phipps]

They are pretty awful at picking their martyrs. Besides, good intentions isn't enough. The "end justifies the means" isn't a moral code because it relies too much on certainty of future outcomes. It is gambling on your soul. How does one redeem oneself from evil actions done for the greater good if he fails? A sin of pride can't be washed off by good intentions.

The transformation of history is rarely peaceful, bloodless, or without suffering on both sides. History, however, has the benefit of simply moving on with or without society. The killing of young black men is nothing new in America, it's practically a national pastime but how that changes will be ugly rather than happy.

Let's face it, Rodney King, Ferguson, and Trayvon Martin are just a long string of the issues being confronted with no resolution in sight.

 

[CT Phipps]

Oh, Quebec is pissed at Fox....well, lying.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trudeau-quebec-mosque-shooting-fox-news-tweet-2017-1?

 

[CaptJ]

The killing of young black men is nothing new in America, it's practically a national pastime

I really can't understand how you can just say. That is very heavy accusation. It is like the word institutional racism. The word institutional is just added there to make things worse. Also, a White Supremacist country generally doesn't elect a Black President and this isn't a foot race. It is pretty easy to rig the system without people knowing.

Oh, Quebec is pissed at Fox....well, lying.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trudeau-quebec-mosque-shooting-fox-news-tweet-2017-1?

Fox News being Fox News. Also, I thought you should know this by now but you are suppose to use the edit button when the last post is also yours.

 

[Dr Fallout]

The killing of young black men is nothing new in America, it's practically a national pastime

CT Phipps, please don't become a brainwashed, hate filled Black Panther who believes all of white society was made with the sole purpose of killing and oppressing Black people. Killing them was never a national pastime. Only a minority of Americans would want to kill a black guy for the sake of their skin. Call them niggers, not show them the same respect they would to a White man, sure but killing?

Don't make me lose respect.

 

[Jogre]

The "end justifies the means" isn't a moral code because it relies too much on certainty of future outcomes. It is gambling on your soul. How does one redeem oneself from evil actions done for the greater good if he fails? A sin of pride can't be washed off by good intentions.

I disagree here.

Consequentialist based morality almost always takes the chance of the consequences being worse than anticipated in to account. Jeremy Bentham, the founder of Utilitarianism took probability into account.

I'm sure if there were a situation in which you'd risk potentially catastrophic outcomes because you are fairly sure you could get a potentially good outcome, most forms of consequentialist morality would probably suggest not to do it because the risks of causing harm would be too high

As for "how does one redeem oneself from evil actions done for the greater good if he fails?", I'm guessing try and solve all the problems you cause, try and notice where you went wrong, and make sure you improve in future. If you don't believe any actions are universally bad, sins of pride and redeeming yourself from evil actions aren't necessarily a problem.

I mean, I accept there are a lot of issues with this type of approach, but absolutism isn't much better, as being inflexible about your moral code when you could potentially change the world by breaking it doesn't seem like a good way to go about it to me.

 

[CT Phipps]

CT Phipps, please don't become a brainwashed, hate filled Black Panther who believes all of white society was made with the sole purpose of killing and oppressing Black people. Killing them was never a national pastime. Only a minority of Americans would want to kill a black guy for the sake of their skin. Call them niggers, not show them the same respect they would to a White man, sure but killing?

Don't make me lose respect.

Being a white person, I'm aware of this. However, that doesn't mean

A:] Systematic racism doesn't exist.
B:] Shouldn't be opposed

I grew up in Kentucky so I also know the different kinds of racism.

 

[CaptJ]

Being a white person, I'm aware of this. However, that doesn't mean

A:] Systematic racism doesn't exist.

That is a very serious allegation. Do you have any proof? I assume that you mean in America because I know that it exist in Zimbabwe.

 

[GonZo_626]

Being a white person, I'm aware of this. However, that doesn't mean

A:] Systematic racism doesn't exist.
B:] Shouldn't be opposed

I grew up in Kentucky so I also know the different kinds of racism.

Systematic racism does exist, through affirmative action (which people think is not racist) which actually holds people of Asian descent in the states down. White privilege does not exist either as it appears the top earners are again people of Asian descent.

As far as cop shootings in the states, yes people of African descent do get shot at way to much by cops, some of the shootings may be justified, others are not and although I do think a cop should be able to protect themselves from people attacking them, they also need to find ways to talk these people down. Also don't shoot at kids with pellet guns.

 

[CT Phipps]

That is a very serious allegation. Do you have any proof? I assume that you mean in America because I know that it exist in Zimbabwe.

Given we're in a thread called Muslim Ban...

 

[CaptJ]

Given we're in a thread called Muslim Ban...

1. Muslim isn't a race. No one says that they are part Muslim or have Muslim genetics.
2. It doesn't apply to Muslims that are Americans.
3. Being able to travel to a foreign country isn't inalienable right.

Besides, those countries were a list of countries compiled by the previous administration.

 

[DarkCorp]

Racism exists but nowhere near what CT was saying previously. CT makes it sound like cops go around and fuck with blacks for shits and giggles and kill them like the Nazis did to the Jews.

Dude, if racism was that bad, black people would just huddle in masses inside their homes and not go to work or buy food, etc. We wouldn't have had a black president. We wouldn't have bi-racial couples or schools with all races attending. If racism was so 'systemic', OTHER races would also be picked on just as badly. I mean, there ARE other dark skinned people other than blacks.

We have a few bad fucking apples and the liberals scream to the high heavens and start rolling out the fear mongering.

You want to know racism? Being in the SW, there are government forms in TWO languages, English, which makes sense, and SPANISH. Oh BTW, people of other ethnicities, FUCK YOU. You are not Hispanic/Mexican so you can figure the forms out yourself, only Mexican and latinos get special treatment here.

Edit:

Even if Bernie was elected, he wouldn't be able to get much done. He gives no favors and so, he has none in return. We are talking real life politics here, not some pie in the sky utopian dream. Have you seen his popularity in DC? He gives speeches where he is the only person in the room.

I wouldn't call it setting the bar too low. Bernie is clearly, a sneaky as fuck, opportunist. He realized that he would have NO chance running as an independent so he pimped himself and sold his soul to the democrats for political power. He attached himself to a party, that in his words, were, 'Morally and intellectually bankrupt'. Against the wishes of his primary support base, the progressives, as they are calling themselves now, he continued to support and go out and speak for Hillary Clinton. Clearly, this is a man that would stoop to any level, if the proper incentive was there.

If he could get away with it and it served his interests, I can see a Bernie taking a more militant/communist stance. But we are talking about the U.S. so it would be political suicide if he took a more extremist route.

Say what you want about the GOP, but atleast you know what one is getting.

 

[CT Phipps]

The issue of racial profiling in the United States is tied to a larger issue of poverty and police militarization. It's a complicated issue but boils down to the fact, "It's not that police are making death squads to hunt down and kill Black men. It's the fact that there's a disproportionately higher number of killings of young Black men due to expectations of violence by the police as well as police training designed to use lethal force first."

Police brutality is nothing new as a fear and bluntly is something the United States is actually better at than in many countries. One of the things you'll encounter when talking to many of the immigrants who are fleeing from their home nations is a distrust of the police--not because of how they were treated in America but how they were treated in their home countries. The poor, minorities, and disadvantaged are ALWAYS treated with excessive force unless monitored closely.

Improvements and work to make things better aren't bad things to ask ourselves about. On my end, I believe we should remove Internal Affairs from local police forces and have investigations conducted by a separate office in the Governor's Office. I'm also of the mind the camera systems on cops and in cars benefit both the police as well as suspects since they avoid the "he said, she said" sort of problems which have emerged.

Development of nonlethal weaponry is aso something we need to focus more on. The Taser has been used brutally before but when a man gets hit with that, he gets burns. When he gets shot, he gets dead.

 

[DarkCorp]

Being an immigrant usually means arriving to the U.S. poor. That is why, as part of your immigration agreement, you have a valid sponsor to take care of you financially while one gives themselves time to set up.

Asians come here poor, Jews, Pakistani, Iranians, etc. The whole poverty equals crime is a fallacy that ignores numerous other factors that cause crime to happen.

In general practicality, I agree with body cams, and really wish departments would be faster in their total adoption.

We have less than lethal alternatives but sometimes they do not work.

Those folks who go straight to the gun, need to be handled on a case by case basis. Cop or not, if some stupid ass kid was carrying a weapon, painted black and with the orange tip removed, and was pointing it at strangers or you, you would should be worried.

If black men are being killed more, proportionally, then these problems need to be addressed on a by department basis. To just scream 'Fuck the police' or otherwise blanket judge all police for the actions of a few is detrimental to the very change one wishes to happen.