R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
"But his PR statements"
OK. Actions speak louder than words. His games and TV show he let happen have shown no respect to it and in fact trample on it maliciously.
My first post since 2018 and the fallout tv series
- Thread starter Shiozaki
- Start date
OK. Actions speak louder than words. His games and TV show he let happen have shown no respect to it and in fact trample on it maliciously.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I mean destroying NCR was following Van Buren's script. So its fidelity to the original creators.
Avellone has been quite vocal in his desire to destroy it.
R.Graves
Confirmed Retard
I really really cannot express how little this matters because I guaran-fucking-tee they weren't gonna offscreen it in some random spinoff that isn't even a mainline game. Who would do that? That would be crazy.
Maybe avellone would've been able to make a cool story out of the fall of the NCR likely even. But the odds it would be unceremoniously deleted offscreen for no story reason at all is basically 0
Going "well we almost got a better version done by competent people" is no way to justify the shit we got shoveled on us
Last edited:
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
It was the officially planned Fallout 3 and they were ABSOLUTELY losing off screen to the Brotherhood of Steel.
This isn't even in dispute.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Who cares? That doesn't matter. Bringing up Van Buren and Chris Avellone is irrelevant. None of it changes how fucking stupid it was to nuke Shady Sands and then act like the NCR and the original games never happened.
Hardboiled Android
Vault Fossil
Whether or not they were LOSING is actually highly disputable. While we learn from Hoover Dam that things are going poorly back in California, we learn the exact same thing at Maxson Bunker for the Brotherhood. Both are struggling, cut off from supplies, and don't know exactly what's going on back home, just that it's not good.
In both cases, neither organization was said to be destroyed. Moreover, the arc of each group and their history leading up to that point, and what their future would, should, or could look like was actually a major part of the writing, whereas in the show the consequences of the NCRs (pre-existent) destruction served 1) to reset the area to "Generic Bethesda Style Wasteland" and 2) to give Hank and Vault-Tec something evil to do and 3) to have some vague resonance with the childishly conceived and presented theme of "Factions fight to save the world but they tear the world apart over disagreements how"
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
You know how Disco Elysium makes fun of you for being a fence-sitting centrist and despises liberal moralism for being a status quo ideology of control? Fallout TV is the kind of programming Moralists would write. Its anti-politics are eminently political, and a lack of ideology is itself ideological.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Disco Elysium also makes the ironic point no other faction can accomplish shit while the Centrists rule the world.
Which is its own argument.
Norzan
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Can this garbage die? Who cares what Van Buren was gonna do, drop that shit already.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Your argument is, "Shady Sands fall shouldn't have caused NCR to collapse" as essentially "acting like it never happened." Right? You expect there to be a unified culture and identity so the idea of wiping out their (former) capital forced a division among the people and reversal of them to random Wastelanders is ridiculous.
Last edited:
Hardboiled Android
Vault Fossil
In Van Buren, despite Hoover Dam being largely cut off from contact with the rest of NCR, it still maintains an NCR identity. It didn't revert into Goofy Wasteland Town #42 as the show would have it. Because the manner of the NCR's decline in Van Buren would have been fundamentally different (and better) than it was in the show, even if they share the same general principal.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
There are no "factions" in Disco Elysium, only people and their ideologies, historiographies, sociologies, and etc. The politics don't play out as if there is some extant opposition, people hold on to their ideologies as a coping mechanism for living in the wake of Communism's failure and the victory of Old World Power. The people of Revachol live at the intersection of every contradiction in the world system. You wake up from a self-destructive stupor in the middle of a class conflict for which there is no way to resolve as an individual actor. You can only minimize the damage. The best thing you can possibly do is live to serve others, not your self or an abstraction like nations, or the sclerotic vestiges of old powers.
What's accomplished are the consequences of your actions. How your life impacts others. Love and selflessness are what plant the seeds of a better world. The best people want a world that's good to everyone. Not a world that manages itself by being "good enough" at the expense of society's fringes. That's the point of Disco Elysium.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
Eh, I'd summarize it far more that you can get deep into politics and ideology more than every other game out there but in the end it's all one alcoholic cop trying to hold his brain together after a failed suicide attempt (be it tie on the fan or trying to drink himself to literal death or drown himself with a car). As Casablanca says, none of the problems of individuals means a hill of beans to the larger issues but the reverse is true as well. You can't do shit about the failure of communism and the fact Revachol is under a colonialist occupation but you can solve this murder.
It's too bad the creative team got screwed out of their own game.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Bro, the developers are all Marxists. The game is a Marxist critique of the neoliberal world system we live under RIGHT NOW. You'd know that if you knew anything about Marxism, which I don't blame you for since earlier you said you're an anarchist.
CT Phipps
Carbon Dated and Proud
I will prove my political knowledge to you about this subject with two sentences.
"I know they're Marxists because the game spends the entirety of its time shitting on Marxism. Just as only Marxists can."
Or I can just quote the game if you complete the quest
0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin. All he has managed to do is make himself *sad*. He is starting to suspect Kras Mazov *fucked him over* personally with his socio-economic theory.
Last edited:
Hawkwing74
It Wandered In From the Wastes
No one killed more people than Marxists. Love and selflessness indeed.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Liberals have had a 400 year run of slavery and genocide, but ok. I recommend Losurdo.
Hawkwing74
It Wandered In From the Wastes
And who abolished slavery? Liberals.
100 million+ in 100 years.
100 million+ in 100 years.
I for one advocate communist revolutions whenever possible. Nothing kills more communists than a good commie revolution and the party cleansing that inevitably follows.
Eh, but most of those were communists, so it doesn't really count.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
And who abolished slavery? Liberals.
100 million+ in 100 years.
The Black Book of Communism also ranks Nazi camp guards as "victims." Practically speaking it's counting every fatality that happened as a result of communism's mere existence rather than who was shooting whom and why, and extrapolating numbers based on bad data to jack up the numbers as high as possible. That's why estimates for communist fatalities range between 10-20 million and 110 million; whereas estimates for famine victims of the late Victorian era alone are between 30-60 million, at a time when those fatalities were proportionally greater.
[e: I tried linking to the book Late Victorian Holocausts but this forum breaks url links as media embeds every time, even when i use the url code]
Arguing over body counts is also a pointless utilitarian exercise that only makes sense to liberals and their conservative hangers-on. If liberalism and communism are morally equivalent in terms of a willingness to engage in lethal violence and radical social upheaval then they have to be evaluated by their consequences. The victory of liberalism in the Cold War hasn't led us anywhere towards peace or prosperity, we've just recreated the wars of the 20th Century in Ukraine and Gaza for the same reasons the World Wars were fought a century ago. There's a ceiling to what's capable within a Liberal framework, and the inability to move beyond it creates historical cycles of reactionary violence.