My Own Theory About Why F4 Is The Way It Is

[Someguy37]

A lot of the reason why the keep the engine is because it keeps the size of the game down.

I recall an interview where someone at Bethesda was asked why don't they switch to something like Unreal, and he said because making Skyrim or Fallout 4 on Unreal would have made the game over 100 gigs in size because of the way Unreal does it data.

 

[whirlingdervish]

Yeah they really care about how much data they use.. Tell that to us when they don't have a system that makes humongous save game files and takes up many gigs of space just to retain the useless position data of every piece of junk in their gameworld.
Or when they release a game on discs instead of making people download 50 gigs over their internet connections.

My skyrim save folder is probably 8 gigs by itself, and I save over the same slots a lot to mitigate it.

I don't believe they know a damned thing about developing on another engine, so their claims and your parroting of them, are worthless.

 

[Someguy37]

Tell that to us when they don't have a system that makes humongous save game files and takes up many gigs of space just to retain the useless position data of every piece of junk in their gameworld.

How dare they devise a system that keeps the game world as you have changed it, instead of resetting it every 5 minutes like GTA, making anything you may have destroyed pointless.

Or when they release a game on discs instead of making people download 50 gigs over their internet connections.

They would have released the game on a disk if PC users actually had blu ray drives. But disk drives have been on the way out for PC users for years now, since most people actually have decent internet connects nowadays.

My skyrim save folder is probably 8 gigs by itself, and I save over the same slots a lot to mitigate it.

How? Do you have like 8 characters at once or something? I'm 113+ hours in my current character, with just as many saves, and its not even 1 gig, and I've done every quest, and visited every dungeon, in the game and its DLC.

 

[whirlingdervish]

Some people in RPG games like to actually play DIFFERENT CHARACTER BUILDS.

Carefully wrap your mind around that concept. I know it is shocking to some.



PS: There is no reason the game needs to save the fact that I accidentally kicked empty tin can #123123 from point A to point B in passing, in order to have a system for retaining item position changes that the character actually intended to make. A simple context menu option to make some pile of loot permanent in it's position, or maybe just making it so stuff inside player owned containers and world spaces were saved would save tons of space and loading time.

You know those atrocious loading times that they persist in giving us in every game...

 

[Someguy37]

Some people in RPG games like to actually play DIFFERENT CHARACTER BUILDS.

Carefully wrap your mind around that concept. I know it is shocking to some.

I know? I was asking if you kept saves for all 8 at one time. I mean, I make a character with a build, beat the game with him, delete all but my last save with that character, store that somewhere else, and then make a new character with a new build.

I was asking if you keep all your saves for all your characters at once.

and holy shit man, you have some serious knee-jerk reaction issues.

 

[whirlingdervish]

and holy shit man, you have some serious knee-jerk reaction issues.

Perhaps if you weren't obviously here for the purpose of trolling people in every part of this forum, people might react differently to you.

Reap what you've sown bud.

 

[KillerBee256]

I think the writing is slightly better then fallout 3, companions particularly. Even the boring ones like Preston Garvey have more back story and character development then companions in fallout 3.

 

[Tom Bishop]

Other devs manage to make reasonably-sized open world games without using such an ancient engine.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Other developers manage to make games with short loading times that run excellent and look excellent too. Other games don't need to store info dumps of data on terminals to tell a story when they use something called NPC dialogue. Fallout 4 sort of looks like a 2008 game and oh boy does it run like one too. That last part was a joke but seriously this game runs like ass and the textures are bad even though graphics don't matter to me considering I still play older games like the original Fallouts and Deus Ex 1.

 

[omegaspruz]

Other developers manage to make games with short loading times that run excellent and look excellent too. Other games don't need to store info dumps of data on terminals to tell a story when they use something called NPC dialogue. Fallout 4 sort of looks like a 2008 game and oh boy does it run like one too. That last part was a joke but seriously this game runs like ass and the textures are bad even though graphics don't matter to me considering I still play older games like the original Fallouts and Deus Ex 1.

To be fair, the best game experience I had was going back and playing the classics. There is something missing in new releases, I'd say the AAA titles dont have as much soul. But those games were done by writers and geeks who happen to be good at computers. Newer games are done with people goot at computers and a few writers.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Other developers manage to make games with short loading times that run excellent and look excellent too. Other games don't need to store info dumps of data on terminals to tell a story when they use something called NPC dialogue. Fallout 4 sort of looks like a 2008 game and oh boy does it run like one too. That last part was a joke but seriously this game runs like ass and the textures are bad even though graphics don't matter to me considering I still play older games like the original Fallouts and Deus Ex 1.

To be fair, the best game experience I had was going back and playing the classics. There is something missing in new releases, I'd say the AAA titles dont have as much soul. But those games were done by writers and geeks who happen to be good at computers. Newer games are done with people goot at computers and a few writers.

I would believe developers making games today were good at computers if today's PC mouse and keyboard controls and interfaces weren't shit. Optimization as well. I miss how the older games were created, with love and care instead of seeing if they can break the record for most units sold and money made. I don't need to dig into ini files to remove mouse acceleration or fix something else in these older games. Wow I sound like an old grumpy person.

 

[whirlingdervish]

Well they used to develop PC games for the PC, on a PC, so having a good mouse and keyboard UI was a focus.

Now we get games made primarily for consoles (because the consoles are the limiting factor), ported to PC with the UI designed obviously to cater to a gamepad, and very poorly translated to mouse and keyboard (because it was an obvious afterthought).

Thanks a bunch Xbox!

 

[Someguy37]

(because the consoles are the limiting factor)

Going by steam hardware surveys, PCs are actually the limiting factor now with the current gen consoles being out.

On top of the smaller install base(at least in terms of game use), there's really no reason to develop for PCs anymore since most PC gamers can't be bothered to stay on par with consoles anymore.

 

[Crni Vuk]

Well they used to develop PC games for the PC, on a PC, so having a good mouse and keyboard UI was a focus.

Now we get games made primarily for consoles (because the consoles are the limiting factor), ported to PC with the UI designed obviously to cater to a gamepad, and very poorly translated to mouse and keyboard (because it was an obvious afterthought).

Thanks a bunch Xbox!

Now I am curious about this, I mean the UI in Fallout 4 will be most probably utter garbage on the PC, that much is a given with Bethesda - sadly. I don't have to even play the game to guess that ... But, is it really so much easier to use the UI with a gamepad? I am genuinely curious.

 

[whirlingdervish]

(because the consoles are the limiting factor)

Going by steam hardware surveys, PCs are actually the limiting factor now with the current gen consoles being out.

On top of the smaller install base(at least in terms of game use), there's really no reason to develop for PCs anymore since most PC gamers can't be bothered to stay on par with consoles anymore.

I shouldn't bother anymore other than to just say "Bullshit" every time you speak.

My old Core 2 Duo rig would shit on any "next gen" console. Steam stats are not indicative of the entire world of gaming PCs, just of people who use steam for any purpose, including buying silly little freeware my little pony games to play on their old shitty laptop.

I could survey GOG users and get even worse average stats, but they would be just as stupid and meaningless as what you're claiming on.

Even with this nonsense put aside, they do not design for the scalability required in PC gaming anymore, since the MAX limits on next gen consoles are still shit compared to a decent gaming rig and they are mostly made with similar stats to each other.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

How dare they devise a system that keeps the game world as you have changed it, instead of resetting it every 5 minutes like GTA, making anything you may have destroyed pointless.

The world (or parts of it) should reset sooner, though. I mean, how many times have you returned to a CLEARED enemy cave/camp in Skyrim/FO4 after an in-game week? Instead the game remembers all that pointless item data for...an in-game month? More? It's especially stupid on console who struggle much more than PCs when the file size gets big.

They would have released the game on a disk if PC users actually had blu ray drives. But disk drives have been on the way out for PC users for years now, since most people actually have decent internet connects nowadays.

 

[MercenarySnake]

Well they used to develop PC games for the PC, on a PC, so having a good mouse and keyboard UI was a focus.

Now we get games made primarily for consoles (because the consoles are the limiting factor), ported to PC with the UI designed obviously to cater to a gamepad, and very poorly translated to mouse and keyboard (because it was an obvious afterthought).

Thanks a bunch Xbox!

Now I am curious about this, I mean the UI in Fallout 4 will be most probably utter garbage on the PC, that much is a given with Bethesda - sadly. I don't have to even play the game to guess that ... But, is it really so much easier to use the UI with a gamepad? I am genuinely curious.

Oh good Lord is it bad, considering that all the UI elements like the pipboy is so weird to navigate on a PC monitor I would say this game was ment to be played on a tv. The FOV is a whole other beast, it's almost like having tunnel vision if you don't manually edit the FOV. Don't forget the dialogue wheel, if you don't get that dialogue mod then the game tells you to use the arrow keys if you decide to avoid using the mouse. The dialogue wheel was meant with a console controller in mind.There is a delay in all of the menus involving the mouse movement too which is still present from Skyrim. I mean at this point the menu navigation would be better with a gamepad I would assume(I wouldn't know as I don't use one).

 

[Khannis]

Well they used to develop PC games for the PC, on a PC, so having a good mouse and keyboard UI was a focus.

Now we get games made primarily for consoles (because the consoles are the limiting factor), ported to PC with the UI designed obviously to cater to a gamepad, and very poorly translated to mouse and keyboard (because it was an obvious afterthought).

Thanks a bunch Xbox!

Now I am curious about this, I mean the UI in Fallout 4 will be most probably utter garbage on the PC, that much is a given with Bethesda - sadly. I don't have to even play the game to guess that ... But, is it really so much easier to use the UI with a gamepad? I am genuinely curious.

Oh good Lord is it bad, considering that all the UI elements like the pipboy is so weird to navigate on a PC monitor I would say this game was ment to be played on a tv. The FOV is a whole other beast, it's almost like having tunnel vision if you don't manually edit the FOV. Don't forget the dialogue wheel, if you don't get that dialogue mod then the game tells you to use the arrow keys if you decide to avoid using the mouse. There is a delay in all of the menus involving the mouse movement too which is still present from Skyrim.

I feel like a broken record, but I could forgive absolute all of Bethesda's atrocious technical mistakes for a GOOD FALLOUT GAME. An ACTUAL Fallout game, damnit. I know that "letting modders fix it" is a horrible thing to live by, but if these were the results of heavily investing development time in writing, choice, world reactivity, diversity, lore, etc. I would be a happy man (see New Vegas shipping status).

 

[MercenarySnake]

Well they used to develop PC games for the PC, on a PC, so having a good mouse and keyboard UI was a focus.

Now we get games made primarily for consoles (because the consoles are the limiting factor), ported to PC with the UI designed obviously to cater to a gamepad, and very poorly translated to mouse and keyboard (because it was an obvious afterthought).

Thanks a bunch Xbox!

Now I am curious about this, I mean the UI in Fallout 4 will be most probably utter garbage on the PC, that much is a given with Bethesda - sadly. I don't have to even play the game to guess that ... But, is it really so much easier to use the UI with a gamepad? I am genuinely curious.

Oh good Lord is it bad, considering that all the UI elements like the pipboy is so weird to navigate on a PC monitor I would say this game was ment to be played on a tv. The FOV is a whole other beast, it's almost like having tunnel vision if you don't manually edit the FOV. Don't forget the dialogue wheel, if you don't get that dialogue mod then the game tells you to use the arrow keys if you decide to avoid using the mouse. There is a delay in all of the menus involving the mouse movement too which is still present from Skyrim.

I feel like a broken record, but I could forgive absolute all of Bethesda's atrocious technical mistakes for a GOOD FALLOUT GAME. An ACTUAL Fallout game, damnit. I know that "letting modders fix it" is a horrible thing to live by, but if these were the results of heavily investing development time in writing, choice, world reactivity, diversity, lore, etc. I would be a happy man (see New Vegas shipping status).

I can agree with that, in my honest opinion Fallout 1 and 2 had a sort of clunky inventory(the list of items) but I could care less because those games were excellent. Fallout 4 on the other hand is a mess.

 

[Mr Fish]

Well they used to develop PC games for the PC, on a PC, so having a good mouse and keyboard UI was a focus.

Now we get games made primarily for consoles (because the consoles are the limiting factor), ported to PC with the UI designed obviously to cater to a gamepad, and very poorly translated to mouse and keyboard (because it was an obvious afterthought).

Thanks a bunch Xbox!

Yeah I don't get this really, why are developers so fucking awful at giving different UI for PC and console versions? Or at the very least including better keyboard short-cut commands? I mean, it's pathetic when modders can create a better UI than a supposedly "professional" studio with a triple-A budget and resources. With some of these games I just end up plugging in my controller so that it doesn't play like arse. It feels less like a choice and more like something I 'have to do' in order to really enjoy the game.

To me it just reeks of incompetence. If you're going to sell X on Y then make sure that it works on Y just as well as it works on Z. I don't give a shit if you developed it with the intention for Z and then decided to port it to Y, if you're gonna port something then port it well. Any console to PC port with horrible UI is inexcusable to me. If you're gonna do something then do it right. Laziness, tight time-schedule, after-through argument; Doesn't matter what excuse one tries to make for the developers. All I see is incompetence.

Look at InXile with Wasteland 2. Wasteland 2 has a different UI on PC and consoles to make sure that it plays as best as it can on either platform. InXile could do this. INXILE! A fucking studio that is practically a semi-indie studio is more competent than triple-a developers. Then again, it seems like indie-studios outshine triple-a developers more and more these days.


[edit]

Reason I'm so mad is because I played through FNV and the amount of times I had to deal with it's fucking UI... If I hit ESC when using a computer or hacking it then it opens up the main menu. If I want to transfer more than 6 items into an NPC's barter window or into a container then my mouse auto-adjusts to the center of the screen and I can't click ENTER or A just to quickly transfer the goods and then I have to manually move my mouse over to the next stack of items to transfer. If there is a pop-up for a quest like whether I want to smash a console, use Science on it or just walk away then I have to move my mouse over to the options real awkward like or I have to move my hand from my mouse to the arrow-keys to click through. (why the hell isn't WASD used for this?)

I was playing Overloard and State Of Decay a bit and those games handle like arse with a mouse to look around with.

And then Hotline Miami 2's level editor got released and I've been playing custom levels with good PC controls and man does it feel good. Sadly the level menu for the editor now handles like shite, oh well, least the gameplay works as fucking intended. This kinda stuff really pisses me off, man.