Name reasons you thought Fallout 3 was better than New Vegas

The cars are one of the worst "detail" in Fallout 3. Electric cars do not explode... Bethesda really didn't understand that in the world of Fallout cars were not nuclear cars, they were just starting to be electric cars (very few had been made by the time bombs fell), most were normal cars that run on normal petrol/gasoline.
Uhh... actually —while I hate the idea that they explode— they are almost certainly based on the Ford Nucleon; I'd be not only stunned, but incredulous if they ever claimed otherwise.

**And in case anyone thought they invented the Fatman... There was the M-29 nuclear gun.

 
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It's an important part of the games. Fallout 1 & 2's isometric appearance wasn't arbitrary.
It should seem strikingly familiar to some...
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But if a user's opinion isn't credible enough to point this out... well recall that Interplay was also publishing FPP and TPP titles too; the same year as they released Fallout, but even two years before that, and (Van Buren aside) the designers did mention it themselves; it was always considered important.
—click image for a larger size—


... and even later at Troika:
(This was doubtless a potential Fallout 3; easily converted to the license.)
 
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I just meant like the design of them, but personally I find the nuclear reactor thing funny and not a bad retcon compared to half the other shit they butchered.
I consider it a very serious retcon though. The whole thing about the resources war was because of oil. The USA had stopped using Tanks and Helicopters because there wasn't enough oil for fuel. But then all of a sudden the entire civilian automobile industry used nuclear engines? Really? Why wouldn't the USA have nuclear tanks and Helicopters then? Fallout 3 makes it so that nuclear engines are common and everyday citizens have cars with them, so why was the USA fighting so hard to possess the last oil deposit in the world, if they weren't using much oil anymore?
Uhh... actually —while I hate the idea that they explode— they are almost certainly based on the Ford Nucleon; I'd be not only stunned, but incredulous if they ever claimed otherwise.
But in the previous Fallout games, the cars were just starting to have alternatives to oil based fuel. The highwayman was the first car not to rely on gasoline, and it was an electric engine, not a nuclear one. And the Highwayman was just recently released before the bombs fell.
It might not seem like a big retcon, but considering the whole Fallout backstory, having cars being nuclear alters such a large part of the pre-war society that make the whole "giant world war for oil that leads to the apocalypse" very implausible.
**And in case anyone thought they invented the Fatman... There was the M-29 nuclear gun.
Yes, and there is a reason why it is considered a failure and was decommissioned only after 7 years of it's construction (and only really used a couple times on the field). It just doesn't work as intended and can cause more problems than solve. Also the Davy Crockett could launch a warhead from 2 to 4 km, the Fatman can launch it for maybe 20 meters or so? :V
 
But in the previous Fallout games, the cars were just starting to have alternatives to oil based fuel. The highwayman was the first car not to rely on gasoline, and it was an electric engine, not a nuclear one. And the Highwayman was just recently released before the bombs fell.
...But it wasn't a misunderstanding; they made that mistake on purpose.

Yes, and there is a reason why it is considered a failure and was decommissioned only after 7 years of it's construction (and only really used a couple times on the field). It just doesn't work as intended and can cause more problems than solve. Also the Davy Crockett could launch a warhead from 2 to 4 km, the Fatman can launch it for maybe 20 meters or so? :V
It's the same as with the cars; rule of cool.

*I didn't have a problem with the Fatman being in the game per se, I had a problem with there being more than two shots for it, and that it did not wipe the target area off the map—permanently. The original respected nuclear weapons; and even offered the PC a chance to save the world with the weapon that destroyed it.

But in FO3 the nuclear weapons were always a toy.
 
...But it wasn't a misunderstanding; they made that mistake on purpose.

It's the same as with the cars; rule of cool.
Which is really disappointing. Because the classic games were cool a lot, without the need to retcon large parts of them. :roffle:

Anyway. I do believe Fallout as an IP will never go back to being a RPG series. I only have Fallout 4 because it was a gift and I know (ever since Skyrim) that I will not be buying any Bethesda "RPGs" anymore. Unless they go back to their roots, which I am old enough to know they will not :lol:.

I have another thing Fallout 3 had better than Fallout New Vegas. The ambient sound system. Fallout New Vegas broke the ambient sound system.
But to compensate, in Fallout 3 the radio system is really idiotic though, so not all sound systems are better.
 
I wonder how to interpret the thread title? It would seem to me that it's not asking for what FO3 did better than NV, but for observations [proving] why FO3 is better than NV.

In this case I have none to speak of... other than that it was more commercial.
 
Foremost, (like FO3) it lacks the series' combat mechanics. It's not turn based. It's not 3D-isometric. Its skills are mostly threshold (instead of percentile) based. This means that the PC is guaranteed to succeed, or guaranteed to fail.

Skills like lockpick are manual actions of the player, and can be gamed; just like the shooting mechanics... and so neither of these hinges on the character's own personal abilities. The reverse is true: The player can fail where the skilled character should have succeeded.
They can break all of their lock picks by ineptness... yet the skilled PC would never break a lock pick. Lock-picks don't break (unless horribly abused)—bobby-pins don't break either. In Fallout you didn't even NEED lock picks, they just helped greatly; it was a mechanic of the games that tools aided skill checks; not enabled them*. If you didn't have a lock pick, you used anything handy; like a bobby pin, or a spring, or anything suitable.

The whole point of the lock pick minigame is player agency—when there should be none. Player agency in an RPG is to develop the character to handle certain situations...the ones they are skilled in. Handing it over to the player for direct input is taking it away from the character, and having the player do it. Think about the player doing what the character's skill is supposed to decide.

Crippling injuries. Fallout made the ability to correct crippling injuries a character development path. First Aid didn't cut it, the PC had to BE a doctor, or go find one. FO3 and NV allow the character to fix concussions and broken limbs with an injection, and the medical skill magically improves the effect of drugs.

Lastly... it HAS ironsights. Throughout the Fallout series—until FO3, it has always been that the character attacks the selected target—personally. They aim, and they use their skills and aptitude to do it—and they can fail. The difference between a critical hit, and a knick, is the character's aim, but the later games all use the player's own aiming and timing to make the attacks. This means that knick & scratch wounds that the player makes at point blank with the gun centered on the target's head appear ludicrous. They are aiming better than the character is capable of; shooting faster than the character is capable of... And this works in reverse too. The skilled character can miss their shot because the player didn't point the barrel at the target.
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Peeves: NV prevents map-travel when overloaded or crippled... this is the most useful time in the game to ever use map travel—and you can't.
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Wild Wasteland is an optional trait instead of being the world as it is; and so it actually costs a personal trait to opt-in. In Fallout, the world outside civilization was a scary place (more so than inside settlements). Because you really couldn't know what to expect.
And even with all of that, i still prefer New Vegas on several things over Fallout 1 and 2 (Mainly characters, story and setting, even though there's some i prefer more in Fallout 1 than in New Vegas and vice-versa).

I'm also one of those who doesn't mind the shift to FPS. Yes, it removes a lot of the strategy. Yes, it makes some of the skills player-dependent and not character-dependent. But to me, it doesn't fail on principle. Fallout, to me at least, has always been about moral choices, exploring, characters, setting and story much more than gameplay.

The FPS shift could have worked far better than it did with some tweaks. But it didn't because Bethesda just didn't care. I think the lockpicking is hard-coded into the engine or Obsidian just didn't had the time to overhaul it to make it character-dependent. There's still Force Lock which is character-dependent, which is better than nothing.
 
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I consider it a very serious retcon though. The whole thing about the resources war was because of oil. The USA had stopped using Tanks and Helicopters because there wasn't enough oil for fuel. But then all of a sudden the entire civilian automobile industry used nuclear engines? Really? Why wouldn't the USA have nuclear tanks and Helicopters then? Fallout 3 makes it so that nuclear engines are common and everyday citizens have cars with them, so why was the USA fighting so hard to possess the last oil deposit in the world, if they weren't using much oil anymore?

They already figured out how to miniaturize cold fusion though, so honestly the entire resource war being over oil is kind of dumb anyway. If it was simple enough to implement that the government was using microfusion cells to power guns, the technology was far enough along not to warrant fighting other countries over oil. Uranium would make more sense given this development.

for you. It's an important part of the games for you.

While I think camera angle is somewhat arbitrary to this kind of game, the fact that New Vegas isn't turn based does seriously affect the strategy.
 
They already figured out how to miniaturize cold fusion though, so honestly the entire resource war being over oil is kind of dumb anyway. If it was simple enough to implement that the government was using microfusion cells to power guns, the technology was far enough along not to warrant fighting other countries over oil. Uranium would make more sense given this development.
That only happened during the war already, and wasn't implemented on vehicles. Not to mention that the microfusion cells were very inefficient and run out of charge too fast to be used as a good power source (as a matter of fact, IIRC the USA energy weapons and related research was quite outdated compared with the European ones). It was also during the war that the USA started to look into nuclear power plants too. But that never went very far because the apocalypse happened.
The fact was that oil was still very important for the USA because they were very late in looking for alternative power sources. This is explained in the Fallout Bible IIRC.
 
for you. It's an important part of the games for you.
Why would that matter? It was an important part of the game for them, and they designed it. I merely perceive that it is so.

Anyone can like (and not like) whatever they wish, but, that doesn't make it important or unimportant to the design. Fallout was quite literally built around the combat engine, and Tim Cain speaks at length about designing the games, in his GDC talk about the origins of Fallout.

It was intended (and developed for years) as a GURPS adventure; and even after that fell through, it was still the game they intended to make.

The FPS shift could have worked far better than it did with some tweaks. But it didn't because Bethesda just didn't care.
I really like first person view in games, but generally not in RPGs. First Person inherently swaps the player for the character, and RPG systems that dictate the response and results of the character, can tend to interfere with what gets shown on the screen.

We have all seen the videos from irate players... shrieking about trivial damage done from obvious headshots (when their PC was not skilled enough to be making headshots). It's an artifact of vestigial RPG systems that are determining results that the player thinks they are determining for themselves. They shoot where they want, when the weapon is actually (almost) just for show.

The FPS aspect in FO3 doesn't belong in a Fallout 3, but —since they were hell bent on including it anyway... IMO they should have fashioned it to be rather a lot like the combat that was later seen in the game Superhot; (preferably with APs, akin to FO:Tactics Continuous turn mechanics). This at least evokes a similar impression of combat, as imagining the Fallout's fights in first person—as the character.

 
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That only happened during the war already, and wasn't implemented on vehicles. Not to mention that the microfusion cells were very inefficient and run out of charge too fast to be used as a good power source (as a matter of fact, IIRC the USA energy weapons and related research was quite outdated compared with the European ones). It was also during the war that the USA started to look into nuclear power plants too. But that never went very far because the apocalypse happened.
The fact was that oil was still very important for the USA because they were very late in looking for alternative power sources. This is explained in the Fallout Bible IIRC.

Yeah, you're right. Nuclear power was more a desperation thing. I guess it's really the abundance of these cars that kills Fallout's tragic irony. One exploding nuclear concept car in the factory show room would have been perfect in my eyes. Just like how there should have just been a single Fat Man in the game located in place of the nonsensical, useless, and wasteful Experimental MIRV. Unfortunately, since Todd Howard has no concept of progression and/or patience, we get fucking power armored Deathclaw fights 15 minutes into today's Fallout entries.

The FPS aspect in FO3 doesn't belong in a Fallout 3, but —since they were hell bent on including it anyway... IMO they should have fashioned it to be rather a lot like the combat that was later seen in the game Superhot; (preferably with APs, akin to FO:Tactics Continuous turn mechanics). This at least evokes a similar impression of combat, as imagining the Fallout's fights in first person—as the character.

Gizmo you are a fucking genius.
 
the fact that New Vegas isn't turn based does seriously affect the strategy.

Change it.

http://www.nma-fallout.com/threads/...er-the-glory-that-is-doc-mobius-glove.215029/

Fallout was quite literally built around the combat engine, and Tim Cain speaks at length about designing the games, in his GDC talk about the origins of Fallout.

It was intended (and developed for years) as a GURPS adventure; and even after that fell through, it was still the game they intended to make.

indeed Fallout ONE and TWO were designed that way.
 
indeed Fallout ONE and TWO were designed that way.
And so should they all be, in a direct numbered series... anything else is a spin-off. Spin-offs are fine; look at Fallout Tactics, and FO3 & FO4... There is nothing wrong with either of those games other than the latter two being called numbered sequels to a series they have nothing in common with except their title, (and a few cherry picked names like Enclave, and Power Armor, and Jet).

*Would you accept a Witcher, or Far Cry, or Gears of War —numbered sequel... that played like Hearthstone, Trine, or Little Big Planet? How about a FO5 that played like Frayed Knights? Or an Elder Scrolls 6 that played like Riven? Mechanics define the series' experience as much (or more) than the fiction its wrapped in.

Lack of certain mechanics can make it impossible to provide for the kind of game associated with the series name. I liked Spacemarine a lot, but I would never accept it as a Dawn of War sequel; despite them being both set in the Warhammer universe. They are both great games, and they are both mutually exclusive experiences, where their best features are detrimental to each other.

Edit: @Norzan
I fixed the quote tag.
 
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*Would you accept a Witcher, or Far Cry, or Gears of War —numbered sequel... that played like Hearthstone, Trine, or Little Big Planet? How about a FO5 that played like Frayed Knights? Or an Elder Scrolls 6 that played like Riven? Mechanics define the series' experience as much (or more) than the fiction its wrapped in.

Like this ones?

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But the problem is just the numbers right? If it is, well, lol lol lol
 


From that thread:

Hilarious, I will definitely be using this glove next time I get a chance to play New Vegas. More importantly, the Compliance Regulator is a holdout weapon? Oh, the possibilities...

I don't even understand why unique weapon effects were brought into this conversation. You plan in a turn based game. You react in an action game.

Misquote. Cobra Commander said that. Don't know how my name ended up on that.

Wow dude why would you say that? :P
 
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