NCR Military training

[Languorous_Maiar]

Also, the variant of combat armor used by common NCR rangers are not the First, Second, or Third generations of Combat Armor. First, their is no proof anywhere in the game of them actually being a creation of the US Government or of a US Company, or any company for that matter. Second, the Fallout wiki (Nuka-Pedia) itself says this about the NCR Combat Armor:

Do you realize that I already wrote that NCR is capable of making those armors? I even posted screenshot, so where's problem? They can create those one, but NO DESERT combat armors, from FNV cover.
You're pretty much blind.

First time when I mentioned that NCR is creating those armors

Full-body ranger armors are from Desert Rangers and some pre-war units, while Power Armors from dead BoS member.

It's the best example of NCR tech:
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Nothing impressive.

Second time

Learn lore, NCR can only create poor uniforms seen in FNV and those better ones (which I posted in previous post) but not on mass scale.

You basically repetead, what I wrote before, when it comes to armors, saying by the way, that I said otherwise. (what is lie) not nice

 

[Tagaziel]

How the hell did that confirm your own words? In no way did what SnapSlav say help your argument...

In Fallout 2 Shady Sands confirmed that they were, MANUFACTURING, not scavenging, but, and I stress this to great lengths, so much that I will put it in bold and underline it for you... MANUFACTURING their own weapons. They were mainly doing this with pre-war weapon blueprints.

Also, the variant of combat armor used by common NCR rangers are not the First, Second, or Third generations of Combat Armor. First, their is no proof anywhere in the game of them actually being a creation of the US Government or of a US Company, or any company for that matter. Second, the Fallout wiki (Nuka-Pedia) itself says this about the NCR Combat Armor:

Each model is made by hand in the NCR and features full body armor, a knife sheath on the left chest plate, a camelback style hydration pouch in the back and the Ranger insignia on both pauldrons.

Heres the link: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_armor

The only NCR Ranger armor that was scavenged, was the "legendary" (NCR troops words, not mine) armor.

So, it appears the NCR CAN create something better than the regular troop armor, by scraps, and mass produce it too.

And about the weapons, you pretty much screwed up your own argument their. The NCR purchases all of their militaries standard issue equipment from the Gun Runners or other small weapons contract companies within the NCR who make them by hand from scrap.

Don't claim lore when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

You're better off linking to a proper overview of their technological level I'm set to rewrite with references and moar content relatively soon.

Wait, lower? As in their capacity for industry, or their level of technological prowess?
Because the NCR has all manner of tech, from stripped down power armor to full-body ranger armor, plus the arsenal of weaponry they have... WW2-era USA didn't have these things.

They don't have planes, tanks, a massive number of trucks to give mobility, nor a near-inexhaustible supply of resources. Mobility and logistics were the strength of the US forces in World War II, something the NCR does not and cannot have.

The fact that they have some power armor and advanced combat gear is completely negated by the fact their armies are as fast as a marching soldier. Vertibirds and trucks aren't going to be used in warfare because they're too precious. That's why the NCR is technologically more 19th century than the 20th. People get hung up on guns and armor without looking at the big picture.

 

[BigBoss]

Also, the variant of combat armor used by common NCR rangers are not the First, Second, or Third generations of Combat Armor. First, their is no proof anywhere in the game of them actually being a creation of the US Government or of a US Company, or any company for that matter. Second, the Fallout wiki (Nuka-Pedia) itself says this about the NCR Combat Armor:

Do you realize that I already wrote that NCR is capable of making those armors? I even posted screenshot, so where's problem? They can create those one, but NO DESERT combat armors, from FNV cover.
You're pretty much blind.

First time when I mentioned that NCR is creating those armors

Full-body ranger armors are from Desert Rangers and some pre-war units, while Power Armors from dead BoS member.

It's the best example of NCR tech:
Click here to see the hidden message (It might contain spoilers)

Nothing impressive.

Second time

Learn lore, NCR can only create poor uniforms seen in FNV and those better ones (which I posted in previous post) but not on mass scale.

You basically repetead, what I wrote before, when it comes to armors, saying by the way, that I said otherwise. (what is lie) not nice

I "repeated" what you wrote to show you how you were contradicting yourself.

And your right. I'm either blind, or you have really bad english skills (no offense).

Wait, lower? As in their capacity for industry, or their level of technological prowess?
Because the NCR has all manner of tech, from stripped down power armor to full-body ranger armor, plus the arsenal of weaponry they have... WW2-era USA didn't have these things.

They don't have planes, tanks, a massive number of trucks to give mobility, nor a near-inexhaustible supply of resources. Mobility and logistics were the strength of the US forces in World War II, something the NCR does not and cannot have.

The fact that they have some power armor and advanced combat gear is completely negated by the fact their armies are as fast as a marching soldier. Vertibirds and trucks aren't going to be used in warfare because they're too precious. That's why the NCR is technologically more 19th century than the 20th. People get hung up on guns and armor without looking at the big picture.

I think it matters on what "level" were the NCR technologically advanced. When it comes to vehicular armor and flight capabilities, the NCR does have better technology, but not enough to make a big difference in a way. But still, their tech is more advanced, whether they scavenged it or not.

In the matter of resources, production, and utilization of warfare paraphernalia, and war economy/warfare industry, the NCR does not have unlimited resources or a nearly unlimited workforce to produce an effective war effort by materials and industrialization alone (in such, they are forced to resort to scavenging for what they can't create by hand), so they are less advanced in this matter.

When it comes to weapons and armor, the NCR are obviously much more advanced than WW-II era militaries, and not taking Power Armor and Energy Weapons into though, are about up-to-par with mid-Cold War era Western militaries.

Though it is possible that after the war with Caesar's Legion, the NCR have hit their peak, and their military will their effort to wage war will no doubt decline into an era of decadence. However, they could also come to rely on their own war economy. Just like it is said that without an enemy, Caesar's Legion will fall apart, well after such a large scale war and putting so much effort into the war with the Legion, the NCR has come to create their own war economy, in which their national economy and GDP becomes very dependent on the war economy. A war economy always needs war to stimulate it, or else it falls into large decline, which can hurt and even kill a national economy if it is very dependent on their war economy.

 

[Arden]

Having a couple of vertibirds in an army does not make that army technologically superior. A Vertibird may be used to ferry a general or the president around but certainly not for combat drops, they are far too valuable for that. It's not important what you have, but what you can bring to bear. It is also irrelevant for the employed doctrine if they have gaussrifles or servicerifles, both kill stuff. The Sudanese army for example, isn't worse than the French army because they use old FN FALs or AK47's compared to the French using FAMAS or FN2000. They are worse because they have a disadvantage in communications, reaction time, coordination and can't use combined weapons as efficiently as the French. Buying one Blackhawk chopper won't put em on par with the French.

The NCR has the same problems, theoretically they know of better tech, they even have some samples of it, but they have to supply the bulk of their army with second rate gear (compared to prewar, that is) and have to rely on old doctrines for fighting wars. Move a big load of cheap troops to a predetermined location and hope for the best, which is 19th century warfare in a nutshell. Fast deployment and reaction came only during WW2 with the moto-/ mechanization of troops along with good recon and communication and fast support. The NCR doesn't have the fuel or vehicles for this and they don't have air or artillery support. That's why the BOS and Enclave posed such a threat to the NCR, even if they were outnumbered 100 to 1. BOS/Enclave was able not only to use prewar tech but also prewar strategies and tactics. BOS got eventually too far outnumbered and weren't quite as mobile as the enclave. And the enclave got a nuke where it really hurt. And that's that for prewar enemies, the legion fights on the same level as NCR and that means big masses of infantry moving slowly across huge distances (19th century, unlike 21st century, because that would mean small armies moving all over the place and hitting the enemy where he isn't).

What does that mean for their training?

The training for the basic grunt could very well be just as you described it Alesia. Enlistment, examination, basic personal weapon training, doing drills, lot's of physical training etc. etc. After a month of this you got your basic soldier that knows how to obey orders, salute and hold a gun but not much else. Unlike in prewar training there is far more time and effort spent in survival training like aenemic mentioned already. This is very important since the troops will be far away and often without regular supplies. The assignment to specialist roles would reflect that, instead of artillery spotter, antiarmor specialist and stuff like that, there would be hunters and scouts. Perhaps basic engineering to rig generators and build wells. Maintenance and repair would also be rated higher than prewar.

One important thing in training is to consider if the officers of the NCR are promoted from within the ranks or if they come from academies. I don't know how NCR handles this, but I would suspect the later. A rich ranchers son would train in an academy and enter the army at lieutenants rank or, depending on daddys money as a higher officer (lots of opportunities for a story there). If on the other hand they are chosen from the ranks, screening for possible officer material during training is essential. Giving recruits limited responsibilities and looking how they handle it and stuff like that.

As for the location, I think there are several training camps, not a big single one. I suppose every major settlement has a fairly big one (recruits are also emergency troops, so having them close to important places is handy). After basic training in one of the population centers, the recruits would be sent to an outpost to improve survival skills and also to see some minor action (raiders, monsters). After that they are proper soldiers and get distributed either as replacements into existing units or form a new unit to go where they are needed. But I don't think recruits are transferred directly into crack units like 1st recon. No matter the training, you only find out if a soldier is really capable after he has his first few battles under the belt. The best trained and adept soldier might crack under the pressure. You don't want to find that out in an elite unit in the middle of a critical deployment. During training the capabilities of the recruit are assessed and he gets special training in that field but at first he is an infantryman with a specialist role assigned to a regular unit. Only after some combat experience the best of certain specialists are moved to elite units.

19th century soldiers were trained and deployed in big, often huge, units. Basically NCR follows the same doctrine, but at the same time the NCR army also fills the role of law enforcement and is used to pacify conquered lands. Being spread out like they are, I imagine that NCR troops have far more training in operating in small units for patrol, recon and escort missions. This has an impact on the importance of good NCO's.

It would also be important to know how the NCR sees and treats their soldiers. Are they drafted scum, heroic volunteers, a bunch of useless rabble draining taxes? How is discipline handled? Where do the officers come from and how is the relationship between command and rank and file? And what is the method to train soldiers in the NCR: Easygoing militiaman, broken killer, brainwashed robot?

Jeeesus this got long.

 

[SnapSlav]

The NCR has the same problems, theoretically they know of better tech, they even have some samples of it, but they have to supply the bulk of their army with second rate gear (compared to prewar, that is) and have to rely on old doctrines for fighting wars. Move a big load of cheap troops to a predetermined location and hope for the best, which is 19th century warfare in a nutshell. Fast deployment and reaction came only during WW2 with the moto-/ mechanization of troops along with good recon and communication and fast support. The NCR doesn't have the fuel or vehicles for this and they don't have air or artillery support.

Again, this is all conceptualization of material that the actual material contradicts. In this case, FONV.

Either siding with the NCR or merely talking to enough NPCs will paint the very clear picture that the NCR's current "strategy" of winning through attrition ("Move a big load of cheap troops to a predetermined location and hope for the best", as you put it) is the brainchild of one General Lee Oliver, NOT the total capacity of the NCR's military as a whole. General Oliver gets away with his extremely short-sighted, negligent, inefficient methods SOLELY because he's a war buddy of the current President, not because the rest of the chain of command approves of his methods. In fact, because of how RECENTLY the NCR used far more effective methods (chiefly employed by the Rangers at Chief Hanlon's direction), the troops themselves frown upon the orders they're being given by Oliver. Hanlon's strategies involved misdirection, covert campaigns, and exploiting the military formation of the enemy, as well as combining information gathering and lightning-fast conveyance of intel to adapt and react to their enemy's weaknesses. This is how the first Battle of Hoover Dam was won. With a tiny group of Rangers providing the bulk of the work whittling away at the Legion's officers in their by-the-book formations (due largely to Legatus Malpeis' lack of flexibility) and causing disarray in their ranks, they easily led the advancing troops into a trap, killing off the majority of the present threat and forcing them into a retreat. They didn't just throw troops into the area and hope for their superior firepower to win in the end. Even when the victory at Operation Sunburst was conveyed as JUST the NCR beating the Brotherhood through numbers, this was a large oversimplification of the manner in which they won, because it was told through the perspectives of battle-weary troopers who couldn't make sense of their victory, as well as through the disillusioned recounts of Paladins who couldn't admit to why they lost.

People keep insisting that the NCR is largely scavenging their technology and in doing so they're disregarding all of the evidence to their own prosperity and industry that was established in the first 2 games. The Brotherhood was a part of the NCR up until only recent decades, and with their assistance they were able to build more than just acquire, and such was the case with Vertibirds. Indeed, many Vertibirds in the NCR's possession were acquired from the assault on Navarro and the subsequent raiding of their facilities, but depending on the actions of the Chosen One, the Brotherhood might have acquired the blueprints and begun building their own Vertibirds, and such facilities would have been acquired by the NCR when the Brotherhood seceded and lost most of their establishments in the following civil war.

Again, the NCR forces as depicted in the Mojave ARE NOT representative of the NCR's total capacity for industry. "Ferrying" the President to Hoover Dam on the only NCR Vertibird you ever see in the game doesn't mean the NCR only has a scarce few Vertibirds from scavenging. It only means that, as far as the Mojave is concerned, they have no interest in dedicating such valuable resources. Hanlon said it best when he expressed that the war with the Legion was being conducted with the bare minimum of resources because the leaders back home wanted nothing to do with the conflict. The NCR's presence in the Mojave is a tiny shadow of the actual NCR, and it's openly stated many times. What holds back the NCR's military is NOT their level of technology (though they still remain second and third best due to the BOS and Enclave Remnants, respectively) or their strategies and infrastructure. They're limited by their politics, and this was the major theme regarding the NCR in all of New Vegas. They were a formidable super power, yet crippled by their own power-hungry, self-interested senators, and their own republic foundations. Their military itself, however, is the most advanced, matching all others because of their flexibility and capacity for response time, and handily besting the Legion in most areas.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

The Brotherhood was a part of the NCR up until only recent decades

Any reference for that?
You called me an idiot, but your words are merely bullshit, having no connection to FO lore at all.

Avellone:

I've always imagined that NCR and BOS have maintained an uneasy truce, with barter and (some) technology sharing between the two groups

BoS being part of NCR /=/ NCR and Bos maintaining uneasy truce...

Seriously, bullshit without any references in-game.
Learn lore before posting wall posts based on assumptions.

 

[BigBoss]

The Brotherhood Bunker from Fallout 1 (Lost Hills) was absorbed into the NCR, and there are plenty of Fallout 2 and NV references for that. Therefore, the BoS (essentially Lost Hills), became a part of the NCR.

I think it is you who has know idea what their talking about, and who is spouting the bullshit.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

What? I quoted developer, who clearly said that BoS wasn't part of NCR.
Now, you said that I'm wrong, while providing 0 references, just sayin they exist somewhere.

As for state Maxson, there was never any indications that Lost Hill was part of it, or was part of NCR, (state Maxson isn't Lost Hills), and if you still want to support this thought, give some refs.

Just look at it:

1.

The state of Maxson, in the New California Republic, was built in close proximity to the Lost Hills Bunker, and enjoyed the protection of the Brotherhood of Steel.

Maxson was built close to Lost Hills, due to having protection... not because BoS was part of NCR.

Even this quote clearly distinguishes state Maxson AND Lost Hills Bunker.

2.

2. How was the Brotherhood of Steel involved with NCR after the destruction of the Enclave?
"Unknown. Presumably, they'd already established some level of co-existence with NCR even before the events of F1, judging by one of the states of NCR being dubbed "Maxson" (more on that in a future update except to say that the Lost Hills Bunker was NOT turned into a town in NCR) and considering their pre-existing ties to the Hub, which became a state by the time of F2. I've always imagined that NCR and BOS have maintained an uneasy truce, with barter and (some) technology sharing between the two groups."

Lost Hills Bunker was NOT turned into a town in NCR

Even Avellone himself wrote word "not" using caps, but hey, propably still didn't wokred, since people blindly thinks that BoS was part of NCR.

So you by saying that Lost Hills was "absorbed" or "essentially Lost Hills became a part of NCR", you're clearly wrong, writing everything basing on some wrong assumptions.

It's really pathetic when people thinks they're more rightful than developers... but ignorance about lore in Fallout community is pretty high, so i'm not surprised.

 

[BigBoss]

Well I don't know who the hell you were quoting (as, I won't lie, I didn't even take the time to read most of your argument), but as of New Vegas, Lost Hills is in the center of Maxson state.

After the events of Fallout (2161–2162), the installation became a major research and development house, staying out of the politics of the Core Region and aiding the newly formed NCR, eventually becoming the heart of an autonomous state, Maxson.

Read the part in bold.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lost_Hills

 

[Arden]

You can't build a tank or a chopper just because you got a blueprint. You need materials (steel, aluminium, carbon, plastics, titanium….). For that you need mines, oilwells, refineries and a transportation network to move those goods around. And then you need to process those materials. You need electronic components and software to match, you need to train pilots and groundcrews. You need armaments for the planes and tanks and, most importantly, you need fuel to power them.

NCR has a Population of aprox. 600000 people (old people and children included). They are spread over a huge area. There is the threat of a famine. And yet you think that they would waste all the manpower and resources in producing and maintaining a top notch modern, highly mobile, mechanized army with air support. And having this army, they send hundreds of troops (workers, voters, family members of more voters) on foot to Vegas to hold hoover dam and defeat the Legion? And the reasoning behind that course of action is because Oliver is a clueless moron but bestbuddy with the president?

Yes, there is no evidence as far as I know that the NCR has not a bigass super army somewhere. But to make that work you have to put common sense in a closet and the NCR, or at least it's leaders, would have to be spectacularly stupid. I mean, perhaps they found a blueprint for that ridiculous big robot in FO3 and a plantation crew constructed 1000 of them during their lunchbreaks out of old nails and a spare water chip. They don't get deployed of course, because farmer tom would have a fit if they walked through his fields. So they keep them in reserve and send a dozen volunteers in soft shoes to engage the legion. It could happen, right?

If in doubt, choose what makes sense.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

Well I don't know who the hell you were quoting (as, I won't lie, I didn't even take the time to read most of your argument), but as of New Vegas, Lost Hills is in the center of Maxson state.

After the events of Fallout (2161–2162), the installation became a major research and development house, staying out of the politics of the Core Region and aiding the newly formed NCR, eventually becoming the heart of an autonomous state, Maxson.

Read the part in bold.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Lost_Hills

Again, references from games or words of developers?
Why I should care about what someone wrote in the wikia? Everyone can write there everything, you, me, and all those anons.
I quoted Fallout Bible (Chris Avellone, you heard of him?) and game itself, and you're directing me to fanfiction? Cool story.
Again, give me some REFERENCES, not work of some fans based on assumptions.

It's getting weird, you're still staying by your opinion, but you're no having any confirmations for it.

 

[BigBoss]

That wiki info was taken from New Vegas. And you're right, anyone can post there, but the fact is 95% of the information on Nuka Pedia is verified.

There were many confirmations. I believe SnapSlav knew arguing with you would go nowhere, because you just keep repeating yourself, and thats why he never came back into this thread.

I'd be smart to do the same.

 

[SnapSlav]

I believe SnapSlav knew arguing with you would go nowhere, because you just keep repeating yourself, and thats why he never came back into this thread.

I'd be smart to do the same.

Funny you would say that. I was literally mid-way through another "chapter" just now (in response to someone else, equally worthy of disregard, because they fail to acknowledge counterpoints to their points) when I decided, "No, fuck this. I can type until I'm blue in the face, and they still won't hear reason. Oh well, I tried." It's the overwhelming opinion of the internet that if you get the last word in, that means you've won. But really, as far as I'm concerned, that means nothing. You can get the last word in because you're not worth the time to bother with correcting, and that's how I operate. I'll talk to anyone who has the presence of mind to consider the details of our conversation, but if they're stubbornly opposed to hearing out facts... fuck em.

I'm pretty sure we gave ample response to the OP's request for details on how best to flesh out his story about a trooper going through boot camp. So stopped here is no great loss. =)

 

[Izual]

The best training there is

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

That wiki info was taken from New Vegas. And you're right, anyone can post there, but the fact is 95% of the information on Nuka Pedia is verified.

95%? From what source you got that %? You're must be kidding...
Tagaziel clearly showed that most of Nukapedia info isn't verified. Just look at the Vault, at his corrected articles like Enclave for example, and you will know then, how "verified" article looks.

But again, you provided no evidences to support your opinion...

I never thought that discussion looks this way.
But from what source you would have to take any ref, if Avellone himself written that BoS wasn't part of NCR?

And by the way, state Maxson isn't even mentioned in F:NV (Lost Hills too), so that sentence "That wiki info was taken from New Vegas" makes no sense at all.

 

[Tagaziel]

I think it matters on what "level" were the NCR technologically advanced. When it comes to vehicular armor and flight capabilities, the NCR does have better technology, but not enough to make a big difference in a way. But still, their tech is more advanced, whether they scavenged it or not.

The overall technological level matters. Overall, the NCR is about equal to World War I, minus transportation and flight. The fact that they have small amounts of power armor and Vertibirds doesn't really change the situation.

In the matter of resources, production, and utilization of warfare paraphernalia, and war economy/warfare industry, the NCR does not have unlimited resources or a nearly unlimited workforce to produce an effective war effort by materials and industrialization alone (in such, they are forced to resort to scavenging for what they can't create by hand), so they are less advanced in this matter.

I.e. they are less advanced overall. The nation with the strongest economy wins in a war, not the one most advanced in terms of technology. The Third Reich may have been more advanced than the Soviet Union (though that's debatable, since German tanks used in Barbarossa were very much inferior to the mass-produced T-34s), but the latter's sheer industrial capacity allowed to counter the quality gap, especially when the experienced veteran divisions were redeployed from Asia.

When it comes to weapons and armor, the NCR are obviously much more advanced than WW-II era militaries, and not taking Power Armor and Energy Weapons into though, are about up-to-par with mid-Cold War era Western militaries.

No, they aren't. Their workhorse is a metal-and-wood battle rifle, there is little standardization in terms of weapons, they do not have access to artillery, helicopters, tanks, armored fighting vehicles, satellites, planes, and dozens of other technologies Cold War militaries had.

Again, you need to look at the big picture. You're focusing solely on infantry weapons, completely ignoring the fact that it's just one facet of warfare. If the NCR is on par with Cold War militaries, where are the helicopters providing transport for troops, giving them extreme mobility? Where are the military trucks rapidly delivering food, fuel, weapons, and ammunition? Where are artillery regiments capable of laying waste to enemy fortifications?

Though it is possible that after the war with Caesar's Legion, the NCR have hit their peak, and their military will their effort to wage war will no doubt decline into an era of decadence. However, they could also come to rely on their own war economy. Just like it is said that without an enemy, Caesar's Legion will fall apart, well after such a large scale war and putting so much effort into the war with the Legion, the NCR has come to create their own war economy, in which their national economy and GDP becomes very dependent on the war economy. A war economy always needs war to stimulate it, or else it falls into large decline, which can hurt and even kill a national economy if it is very dependent on their war economy.

Uh, huh. That's how the United States fell into decline after World War II, right? That's a very simplistic and one can even say naive way of looking at the problem of economy and war. There are more factors at work here, way, way more.

That wiki info was taken from New Vegas. And you're right, anyone can post there, but the fact is 95% of the information on Nuka Pedia is verified.

Then how come there's zero references to back that bit up? LM is right to ask for sources, because anyone can post outrageous claims, but few can back it up. So far there's exactly zero references stating that the state of Maxson ever absorbed Lost Hills. All that's known about Maxson is contained in this article. Note how it references the information.

If there are sources indicating that Lost Hills was absorbed by the NCR, please provide them. Otherwise, you're just generating white noise.

 

[BigBoss]

I think it matters on what "level" were the NCR technologically advanced. When it comes to vehicular armor and flight capabilities, the NCR does have better technology, but not enough to make a big difference in a way. But still, their tech is more advanced, whether they scavenged it or not.

The overall technological level matters. Overall, the NCR is about equal to World War I, minus transportation and flight. The fact that they have small amounts of power armor and Vertibirds doesn't really change the situation.

Yes, I agree with you here, the overall technological level does matter. But in this exact paragraph and point we are not talking about overall technological level. We are talking about the individual basis' on which warfare is engaged. If we are removing transportation and flight, then the NCR is equal to Cold War in terms of infantry warfare, not to World War I. World War I was a series of trench-battles because automatic weapons were not produced on a mass-level yet. In fact, the only side that had automatic weapons which could be carried by one man were the Germans, in their "Storm Trooper" (what the Nazi SA organization was subsequently named after).

The infantry/ground basis of World War I was a war fought with first generation chemical weapons, single-shot rifles, hand-to-hand combat, and heavy machine guns which took two or more men to operate. The NCR is more advanced in all of these things, such as they have rifles with load in clips in which you do not need to reload after each individual round, outdating and technologically over-powering the single-shot rifle. They have much more powerful hand-to-hand technology considering that, in World War I hand-to-hand combat was formed around the basis of rifle and trench knife fights, in which the NCR has the technological capacity to utilize Power Fists for this purpose (as shown in Fallout 2). They also have Light Machine Guns which can be operated by one man, and can be carried fast and easily at will, with much better accuracy than the World War I machine guns. Keep in mind, that I've taken the liberty of leaving out the scavenged T-45d Power Armor units and the heavy weapons the NCR utilizes.

In the matter of resources, production, and utilization of warfare paraphernalia, and war economy/warfare industry, the NCR does not have unlimited resources or a nearly unlimited workforce to produce an effective war effort by materials and industrialization alone (in such, they are forced to resort to scavenging for what they can't create by hand), so they are less advanced in this matter.

I.e. they are less advanced overall. The nation with the strongest economy wins in a war, not the one most advanced in terms of technology. The Third Reich may have been more advanced than the Soviet Union (though that's debatable, since German tanks used in Barbarossa were very much inferior to the mass-produced T-34s), but the latter's sheer industrial capacity allowed to counter the quality gap, especially when the experienced veteran divisions were redeployed from Asia.

Here it is the terms of the industry area of economy on how quickly a nation can produce weapons and vehicles, including recruit and train a standing army, not economy as a whole (though no doubt other areas of economy have factors that play in with industry). When your taking in the Soviet Union for example, this is a communist country, and in communist economy free-market policies and companies which are based off profit and capital are illegal here.

Economy is a different factor to play in a war between a capitalist and communist nation, or in this case, a Fascist nation (which utilizes Third Position economics and politics) and Communism. As one is dependent on a combination of free-market companies and factories and state directed companies/factories to produce their arms, while another is entirely a state controlled nation relying on a central, directed economy to develop its arms. When establishing a base argument about the effect economy plays in a war this large of scale, one has to take in the matter that these two economies operate in very different ways, and therefore the economic benefits and downfall that apply to one nation may not always apply to the other.

Also, the Third Reich had undetestable technological advantage over the allies, including the Soviet Union, United States, and United Kingdom (and especially France), but this mainly happened towards the center of the war). The King Tiger I and the notorious King Tiger II Tanks and Panzers I, II, III, and IV were no doubt better than the Shermans and T-34s, including the A13. They had better armor, and a larger gun where at the beginning of the war, some allied states were made with thin steel, where a regular Kar-86 round would go right through the armor, of course this was changed later. The German tanks also operated on the field of battle astonishingly, and were without a doubt the best tanks at the time. German late-war technology was able to compete with Cold War technology.

When it comes to weapons and armor, the NCR are obviously much more advanced than WW-II era militaries, and not taking Power Armor and Energy Weapons into though, are about up-to-par with mid-Cold War era Western militaries.

No, they aren't. Their workhorse is a metal-and-wood battle rifle, there is little standardization in terms of weapons, they do not have access to artillery, helicopters, tanks, armored fighting vehicles, satellites, planes, and dozens of other technologies Cold War militaries had.

Again, you need to look at the big picture. You're focusing solely on infantry weapons, completely ignoring the fact that it's just one facet of warfare. If the NCR is on par with Cold War militaries, where are the helicopters providing transport for troops, giving them extreme mobility? Where are the military trucks rapidly delivering food, fuel, weapons, and ammunition? Where are artillery regiments capable of laying waste to enemy fortifications?

Many historians related that, if conventional warfare (i.e. non nuclear) broke out between the two powers, much of the fighting would be on the ground, and the individual infantry soldier would be the war winner, as he/she is with many wars. And as I recall, we were not talking about general warfare, we were relating it to post-nuclear warfare capabilities.

Also, the United States fell into decline after the Second World War because they will still recovering from a massive World Wide war. The UK had the same problem. You have to look at it this way. During the war, there was a large need for work. Men who weren't fighting (and women at home, not serving as medics) were needed to work factories for supplies and arms, crops for food, etc. There was a surplus of jobs. This was stimulated by what we call today, a war economy. The war was massive, therefore there were many jobs available, as any war of the era needs a workforce behind it to create the things needed for the war. Now look at this picture, after the war was over, there was no longer a need to employ so many people. People were laid off in mass levels. Many citizens of the UK said that post-war time was worse than war-time.

That wiki info was taken from New Vegas. And you're right, anyone can post there, but the fact is 95% of the information on Nuka Pedia is verified.

Then how come there's zero references to back that bit up? LM is right to ask for sources, because anyone can post outrageous claims, but few can back it up. So far there's exactly zero references stating that the state of Maxson ever absorbed Lost Hills. All that's known about Maxson is contained in this article. Note how it references the information.

If there are sources indicating that Lost Hills was absorbed by the NCR, please provide them. Otherwise, you're just generating white noise.

What are you talking about? He asked for a source, and I gave him one. If hes going to complain about the source I gave, well thats his right, but I'm not going to go digging around for his (or anyone elses) behalf.

 

[Languorous_Maiar]

You did not gave me any source, just some words of fan written in some web... that's you calling source? Some fanfiction?
If I will write in Nuka that character X did action X, then it actually happened in Fallout lore? Please, be serious.
Look at Tagaziel link, if there is no reference after the specific sentence, then it isn't confirmed by anything more than just some assumptions of specific fans.

I wonder why it's so hard to understand... to prove that something in Fallout Lore is in specific state, you need to have quotes of developers or materials from official games.

 

[Arden]

Bigboss you are looking far too deep at the tactical level, where it does makes a difference if a platoon is armed with carbines, smgs or assaultrifles. But wars are won or lost on the strategic level and with the use of overarching doctrines. "What if's" modelling what happens if squad A meets squad B and how that plays out is useless if squad B refuses to be there and moves to place C instead, blowing up squad A's high command, taking the government hostage and smirking at squad A saying "I know where you live pal, because I am sitting on your porch".

And that is why you are completely wrong about WW1. You look at the kind of armament there was and why WW2 was different. Because of tanks? Because of smg's? Crew operated Machineguns? No, because the WAY the war was fought changed. Technology does not automatically define how wars are conducted. Better tech gets available before new kinds of warfare are developed. That is why WW1 was so terrible in its death toll and so utterly stupid in the way it was fought: using new weapons (Machineguns, Gas, and the sheer scale of artillery) with old 19th century strategies (engaging enemy army and taking territory). It always takes decades or longer and 100 of thousands of deaths until generals start to adjust the tactics accordingly. Even in WW2 most countries started with old doctrines, just using better tech. Only the germans used new ways at the start: moving battlefields instead of static. The Frenchies had a million troops sitting at the maginot line waiting for a frontal assault, just like in WW1 but better, twiddling their thumbs while german tanks were already rolling into paris. The French army was not beaten, it was avoided and rendered completely useless. And that did not happen because the infantry guns of the germans were better.

The american civil war is another good example of this: at the start using line infantry tactics a hundred years old, engaging enemy armies and trying to hold territory when neither is actually necessary to win a war. Lee actually had the right idea by luring away a union army and then rapidly redeploying his own by train. 15000 yanks where sitting miles away from the actual battlefield. Again, the weapons employed were irrelevant, what won the battle for Lee was a friggin train and the brains to use it.

 

[BigBoss]

You did not gave me any source, just some words of fan written in some web... that's you calling source? Some fanfiction?
If I will write in Nuka that character X did action X, then it actually happened in Fallout lore? Please, be serious.
Look at Tagaziel link, if there is no reference after the specific sentence, then it isn't confirmed by anything more than just some assumptions of specific fans.

I wonder why it's so hard to understand... to prove that something in Fallout Lore is in specific state, you need to have quotes of developers or materials from official games.

Yes, but unfortunately those aren't just "some words written by a fan on a page".

And, since you are being such an asshole about it, I am going to give you the source that you ask for.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/New_California_Republic_Rangers

Their regular patrol armor is hand-made in the NCR, while the elite black armor used by Veteran Rangers come from pre-War LAPD design.

Now, before you flip your shit, this isn't the actual source. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, where it says sources.

The article text comes from J.E. Sawyer's Fallout RPG and from Chris Avellone's Fallout Bible 6.

If you want more information, I suggest you look up the information yourself, or do a quick read-through of the entire Fallout Bible, or play through of Fallout 2 and Fallout New Vegas (they mention the NCR rangers create their own armor in Camp Golf, I believe).

Now, no doubt your going to say some bullshit to which my information was no adequate enough for you, or wrong, but I don't give a damn. This is the finally thing I'm doing, because I'm tired of looking for sources so you can be satisfied. Until then, well, keep acting like an ass I guess, and speaking bad English!