NCR Railroad System

Discussion in 'Fallout: New Vegas Discussion' started by Lone Cat, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat It Wandered In From the Wastes

    147
    Apr 8, 2012
    As you can see. the NCR tried to Annex the Vegas and its surroundings and they're so serious'bout it. they even constructed Railroad systems protrounding from California, parralleling what used to be the I15 Highways, and also used the indentured prisoners as primary sources of labour, This railroad also saw Freight usage by the Quarry. in the game itself. the train doesn't changed much from 1950s, Boxcars still being used, the locomotive is exactly F-Unit.

    Questions
    1. Who runs the Railraod System throughout the NCR? is it state owned (as in Europe, and other undeverloped countries), or private companies like the pre-war USA?
    2. In the Fallout universe, were these events occur?
    - Class 1 Railroads tossed out Passenger train services to the governments (Long-route Passenger services given to the Federals, eventually became AMTRAK, Commuter services given to the States governments, later belongs to the State Authority of Mass Transit of each states, In California, commuter trains given by Class 1s (especially Southern Pacific) became Caltrain
    The reasons were because Class 1s can no longer compete with either Airlines or Private motoring, the two industries sprung up once the WW2 is over, and even worse. the Federal government prevented these Class 1s any attempts to run Highspeed Trains (and thus the World's first true HST is in Japan, the Shinkansen. and it's quite a pain that the Shinkansen looks VERY close to many American streamliners).
    - Southern Pacific merged by its big rival, Union Pacific in 1996.
    - Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe merged with Burlington Northern and became BNSF.
    3. If Class 1 did indeed gave up its passenger services to the States, and Federals. Were these passenger services returned to Class 1s in the years leading to the Great War? as the oil shortage became a REAL crisis, private motoring were no longer feasible (and maybe even Airlinings).
    4. Did nuclear powered train exists in Fallout universe? How did F-Units seen in the game ran? if by 2281 the Internal combustion engines became obsolette due to the access to petroleum were lost forever (By the end of Fallout2, the last Oil Rig, controlled by the Enclave. is destroyed by the Player character). is it Fission-powered or Fusion ones? And are those F units newly built locomotives or salvaged ?
    5. The NCR backstory also said that it has a good network of Railroads ran throughout the republic (and effectively forced Caravans to work outside the Core region). Is it a salvage of Pre-war railway networks built by three Class 1s? or are these rail lines brandnew routes?
    6. Is there any Real Life rail lines paralleling the I15 Highway all the way to the Vegas? if so
    - Is it ATSF lines? The Santa Fe did serve Vegas from the beginning, and there were another smaller Railroads that serves the Vegas too!
    - Does it goes through the Cajones Pass?
    7. Is Barstow-Strong Express pre-war or post-war Railroads?

     
  2. Alesia

    Alesia It Wandered In From the Wastes

    196
    Mar 3, 2013
    #6.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Railway_Express this is a service set to open next year, it mentions needing rights to travel over BNSF trackage. The BNSF line goes from L.A. to Fullerton, over the Cajon Pass, and in to Barstow where it splits. Eastbound traffic follows I-40 through Daggett and Ludlow into AZ while NB traffic somewhat parallells I-15 into Vegas.
     
  3. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    240
    Jan 11, 2008
    This is my guess, purely speculation.

    Considering the NCR used prisoners to do the hard work, with troopers guarding them in NCRCF, i must say this is a state project. Specifically. a military project than a commercial one.

    nuke-powered train can exist in fallout universe, since the application is bloody straight forward. the question is does an engine like that exist in West coast region. Fallout 1/2 lore mention nothing about such, which mean it's either very rare or non-existent inthe region. In that case, the possiblity to acquire expertise to run the engine and maintain it is minuscule, even if we could find one unit.

    The railroads are the key. the engine (steam, electric, etc...) is nice, but in a pinch teams of brahmin can drag wagons on the rails prettty damn quick. so yeah, I dont think you have to worry about train engine.

    Post war west coast and mojave are howling wasteland, so there's no one to develop such railroad system. prewar, there might be, BUT, it's been 200 years from the war. The rails would have been eroded to nothing during that time. More than that, the roadbed that the rail lying on would have been eroded away in a few years.
     
  4. Lone Cat

    Lone Cat It Wandered In From the Wastes

    147
    Apr 8, 2012
    ^ Yep postwar westcoasts (Core region) and the Mojave are wastelands but by 2281 the Core Region is now 'overcrowded' (as Ron Perlman narrated in FNV intro), and the Wikia said that by then the NCR has a nice deal of railroad networks, Though early rairoads (by 1877 and by the days of Napoleon I) were originally operated by draft animals (oxen/brahmins, horses, and possibly, water buffaloes and mastodons) along with 'high pressure' steam engines (Richard Trevitick Pennydaren and The Stephensons inventions)... up 'till the 1840s. the steam engines evolved to the point that it vastly outperformed a pack of draft animals. (and much cheaper to run) and thus the draft animals were quickly replaced by machines. While the railroads didn't shown up in F1 and F2 , Trains were scheduled to appear in Van Buren as a pilotible vehicle, and a small fleet of F-Units did shown up in a 'restored' tracks (Miners even cited that their dug-up stones were shipped by train,) seemed to appear functional (only a nice details of weatherings, no traces wastelanders vandalizations shown up there), while you cited that the NCR RR systems are likely ran by draft animals, and you said that the railway seen in FNV are lileky 'state corporates' (as seen in real-life Europe and Third-World countries).
    1. IF NCR Army troops were shipped by train (between Vegas and California), speeds needed to rotate fresh troops into--and the 'worn-out' troops out of-- the Vegas are far beyond the capabilities of draft animals.
    2. Backstory also said that the NCR Army maintains a good deal of salvaged trucks, isn't it possible for them to run Fusion-powered F-Units too?
    3. Many RRs built in the USA after the Civil war were built by the workforce of indentured prisoners. OK y'all know that American railroads are largely ran by business sectors and not the governments (except the 1917-1920 USRA, the modern AMTRAK, the eastcoast CONRAIL, some shortlines since 70s through states government of the certain states but not operated by the Federal Govt. and city commuters throughout states) but it doesn't mean they don't use these convicts. The John Henry lore mentioned that the contractors used indentured prisoners workforce to dig tunnels, the same lore mentioned the possible two RR companies involved in the John Henry's 'contests' against a steam drill. the Chessie (Meow) and the Norfolk & Western (Boths are eastcosts). Though there's no additional lore sayin' who owned the railway in FNV, the Powder Gangs history cited that the gang members were once prison gangs indentured by the government to lay tracks. but it doesn't say who actually runs the RR.
    Historically, there were ONLY TWO Instances in the US History that the governments directly oversee the railway constructions themselves (the Transcontinentals RR was spurred by the Federal Governments, the constructions however, were 100% private sectors, the governments served as a referee)
    - The Civil War. I think the Union Engineer Corps built many military railways from the existing Northern rail lines to the fronts, possibly aiding the Siege of Petersburgh. Also throughout the course of the War, many Railroads belonged to the Confederate-supporting enterprises were seized by the Army once the Union troops got there, the lines were quickly linked to the Norths by the Union Engineer Corps.
    - First World War. US Army Engineer Corps built networks of 60cm-gauge trench railways in France (added to the existing French and Brits ones), the Railroads and its equipments later transferred to frenchs. (and served civilian purpose) too bad only a few lines survive the postwar competition against automobiles )
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brVR7xi3jdQ
     
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Hello there

    While trains were not mentioned in Fallout 1 and 2 I don't think that means we should exclude them either. It was simply not a subject that was handled during those games and probably wasn't relevant.

    I think it is save to speculate that the NCR during or before Fallout 2 was already working on restoring railroads and fixing up the trains (and these were probably powered by fusion cells as gasoline had become to precious before the war to be used for general transportation)


    Little correction here, the Poseidon Oil Rig had already stopped 'producing' oil before the great war.
    I am also pretty sure there are other oil rigs but that these are pretty useless as all known oil fields have already been exploited.


    I am not sure it was ever mentioned that the NCR used trains to transport goods and troops to and from the New Vegas region, would make sense though.


    Where is this mentioned? I think the caravan houses are alive and well in the Core region during the events New Vegas.
    Some of the caravan runners you meet even tell about the big and small 'circle' than runs through the Core Region.
     
  6. laclongquan

    laclongquan Boned Hunter of Sister

    240
    Jan 11, 2008
    Actually it's not sensible.

    The trouble of moving army is not about moving human cargo. troopers have feet after all. The trouble is to supply troopers with foods, water, spare parts, etc... And THAT require a system of moving enormous bulks.

    The only way to do so into Mojave is by railroads, because nothing else make sense or feasible: no water route, air is fraught with peril, and using land caravans limit army size.

    like I said, first put down a railroad. If you have brahmin, great, you can use a team of them to pull wagons fast. If you dont have brahmin (impossible with ncr strong point is their herds), you can use a car and a group of human to pedal it. That design has been available in 19th century. Moving stuff on railed wagon is much more efficient than on road.