NCR vs mr house

brfritos said:
- Have an self-sufficient economy that bolst the NCR first and then the inhabitants of Mojave IF there's something interesting in their communities.
- Feed their citizens and their citizens only
- Defend their citizens and only their citizens
- Accept imigrants, but only if they don't get in the way
- Abide by a rule of law, unless the law needs to be bend (they even hire mercenaries and criminals)
- Outreach to their neighbors IF it's interesting. Novac is defended by whom? NCR it isn't. Goodspring happens to be in the middle, otherwise...
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- Have a self-sufficient economy. OF COURSE it bolsters the NCR first: THAT'S KINDA THE POINT. To argue that such shouldn't be the case is kinda like arguing that America is wrong for putting American interests ahead of non-Americans.
- Except if you smooth relations between them and the Kings, that's patently untrue. Also, the Followers - an NCR-born faction - help just about everybody with a pulse.
- Again, not true. They're the ONLY force keeping the fiends (and the Legion) at bay, which helps all of outer Vegas and all the townships up to the border.
- Who doesn't abide by the "don't get in the way" rule? They pretty much accept anybody who isn't a psychopath. Walk in from the wastes, you're certain to be a citizen in ten minutes.
- YOU'RE said mercenary/criminal.
- Novac isn't defended by NCR? Its sheriff is NCR, its two guards are ex-NCR snipers, and it's right on the road between an NCR radio outpost and an NCR base. Walk two minutes in any direction and you see NCR patrols taking out the primary threat to the town: The Legion.
- They're the only ones outreaching AT ALL. Everybody else seems to prefer the scorched earth scenario.
 
Nalano said:
As for the NCR, their corruption may as far as we know be rampant, but at least they make a spirited attempt to:

- have an self-sufficient economy.
- feed their citizens.
- defend their citizens.
- accept immigrants.
- abide by a rule of law.
- outreach to their neighbors.
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1. So does Vegas?

2. So does Vegas?

3. So does Vegas?

4. So does Vegas? Also the NCR forces immigration on people.

5. So does Vegas? The NCR also tends to bend their own laws when it suits their needs.

6. Only point you have, but it's not a big one.
 
I argued here once that House was the "best" choice. Now I'm not so sure after some time has passed since my playthrough.

One thing is obvious, NCR isn't what some people picture it. THey aren't the daddy cool savior of the wastes, much like BoS aren't goody two shoe Paladins of the wasteland. NCR is as "dirty" as every modern country is. I still think that once they acquired something like nuclear weaponry, they wouldn't hesitate one bit - Legion's fort would be nuked to oblivion. That kind of attitude destroyed the world once. Besides, NCR's policy is to annex everything they see. Even the epilogue states that once Legion was defeated, NCR quickly annexed everything House has worked for for hundreds of years.

House pictured bureaucrats pretty well - if you pursue his dialogue. Their little president too obsessed about his career, and he has a great line about the modern ways "want to see how modern civilizations end? look out the window".

It's all true. However, I started to doubt House is really a good alternative. The more I think of it, the more I'm certain ALL of NV's endings are "bad endings".

So, role-playing wise, I'd pick the one that gives the most to the Player character. House gives him luxury and wealth, so why not. Being a "hero of the republic" means less than getting a penny, since a penny at least is worth something; Legion doesn't even allow you to become a member; Yes Man - well, hinted he wants to become assertive aka become another Skynet.
 
cogar66 said:
Nalano said:
As for the NCR, their corruption may as far as we know be rampant, but at least they make a spirited attempt to:

- have an self-sufficient economy.
- feed their citizens.
- defend their citizens.
- accept immigrants.
- abide by a rule of law.
- outreach to their neighbors.
Click to expand...

1. So does Vegas?

2. So does Vegas?

3. So does Vegas?

4. So does Vegas? Also the NCR forces immigration on people.

5. So does Vegas? The NCR also tends to bend their own laws when it suits their needs.

6. Only point you have, but it's not a big one.
Click to expand...

with just casinos ? A weak way of doing that. Also House cares only for the strip ~ Freeside, even the player mentiones at some point that its a dump and shit-hole. If people outside of it starve or prosper doesnt really matter much. Not to mention that the people inside the strip also just do what house tells them (more or less).

And as BN (dunno how many times ...) mentioned. Without the NCR there would be probably not much of Vegas economy left considering they do most of the farming there, provide most of the guests for the strip AND provide energy with the Dam ~ while the Dam was occupied by House before the NCR showed up there they did a lot in fixing it.

DForge said:
. NCR is as "dirty" as every modern country is.
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If its just that, truth is that its (how they are shown in Vegas at least) the best alternative you might have.
 
An interesting note from House's death note:

"Leadership: Mr. House survived the war, of course, and would later recruit the Three Families, negotiate the Treaty of New Vegas, and rebuild the Vegas Strip. While these achievements yielded many immediate benefits, they were all part of House's master plan to re-ignite mankind's quest for technological advancement, a plan without which the human race has nowhere to go, and nowhere to turn."

but also

"Will revise and finish this up later. Have set the age at death to update automatically. Obit makes salient points but "pearls before swine," of course. Let's hope the ingrates never have cause to read it. Who knows how many of them are even literate! "

Arrogant, isn't it? ;)
 
Nalano said:
- Novac isn't defended by NCR? Its sheriff is NCR, its two guards are ex-NCR snipers, and it's right on the road between an NCR radio outpost and an NCR base. Walk two minutes in any direction and you see NCR patrols taking out the primary threat to the town: The Legion.
Click to expand...

This I have to disagree more than the others. Boone and Many Vargas defend Novac because of their idealism and because is their town, not because the NCR has an interest in the city.
Ranger Andy portraits himself as a Sheriff also because his beliefs, not because the NCR ordered him to do it.
He was retired from the corp, remember?

Forlon Hope and Ranger Station Charlie also are protecting the Legion advance over Vegas and Camp McCarran, not Novac (if you look on the map, after them is a straigh line until this locations)


Nalano said:
They're the only ones outreaching AT ALL. Everybody else seems to prefer the scorched earth scenario.
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It's like Sunny Milles said, they are shaping Nevada on their own and protecting the roads because of the merchant caravans, not from the kindness of their hearts.
The locals are benefited because they are in the middle.

It's not prefering the scorched earth scenario, is reconigzing that the NCR is not a saint that helps everyone.
I said it before and I will say it again: if I couldn't choose the "Independent Vegas" scenario, clearly I will choose the NCR one.
Is the lesser of the evils, like McNamara said it once.

The real-life McNamara, BTW. ;)


DForge said:
It's all true. However, I started to doubt House is really a good alternative. The more I think of it, the more I'm certain ALL of NV's endings are "bad endings".
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Is not that all endings are "bad endings", but like life, not everything will be allright in the end.
No country is perfect, nor his intentions, you have many alternatives of government in the real world.
Some are bad, some are good.

There are pros and cons in every ending in New vegas, is up to the player choosing what he believes is the best for the Mojave.
 
I just think the game is making a rather poor job in showing the advantages of the other factions sometimes. Like with House or most important the Legion. As much as I agree that the NCR is not perfect and has as well a lot of downsides I tend to miss the point in the Legion as "gray" faction to speak so. It seems they dont have a real benefit to the wasteland. Except that they provide a lot of safety in their area. But thats what I mean, the game is doing a very bad job in showing that part while you can very easily see the bad AND the good part in the NCR. And its similar with House. One could argue that he saved the town, but what he created wasnt that great either. Its more a dump with lots of casinos. Not much more. I wish they would have shown at least a location done by House similar in how Vault City was done for example.
 
Crni Vuk said:
I just think the game is making a rather poor job in showing the advantages of the other factions sometimes. Like with House or most important the Legion. As much as I agree that the NCR is not perfect and has as well a lot of downsides I tend to miss the point in the Legion as "gray" faction to speak so. It seems they dont have a real benefit to the wasteland. Except that they provide a lot of safety in their area. But thats what I mean, the game is doing a very bad job in showing that part while you can very easily see the bad AND the good part in the NCR. And its similar with House. One could argue that he saved the town, but what he created wasnt that great either. Its more a dump with lots of casinos. Not much more. I wish they would have shown at least a location done by House similar in how Vault City was done for example.
Click to expand...


Regarding your lasts thoughs, remember that the engine of Fallout and NV are very limited.
For portraiting a huge city with lots of nuances and showing the difference between the regions would require something more advanced, like Unreal Engine, Valve Source or iDTech for the size the devs planned. Imagine how Vegas will be with Source, lots of people, lots of buildings, a huge area and so on.
That's why I don't like Vegas too, it's too small for representing the capital city or hub of the area, unlike the concept art.

They succeed in my opinion showing the difference of Goodsprings and Nipton, for example, but I hardly see the difference between Novac and Primm, they are dumps in the middle of nowhere.
And yet, Novac is portraited like an important city (but Goodsprings have clean water and Novac don't, go figure).

And this is direct linked to the game engine. The graphic portrait of the world influence our decisions, is not only "cosmetic" or "graphically beautiful".
I don't know if I'm making sense. :lol:

As the nuances of NCR and House, I have to agree in part, the game do a very good job making the player think regarding the major factions like them, but not the smaller ones.
And with the exception of Legion, of course.
No matter how many times Obsidian say it, the Legion is pure "black and white" and they are "the evil".
This is lame.

I didn't liked the way the relationship between some smaller factions are portraited, for example, clearly the BoS won't allow high-tech weapons to be in the hands of another, but this is only showed if the player refuse to destroy the BoS bunker when persuing the Independent Vegas end (remember what Yes Man say?).
And why only with the NCR you can forge an alliance with the BoS?

And the Boomers are not a faction, they are there only to serve the player.

[ ]'s
 
brfritos said:
Regarding your lasts thoughs, remember that the engine of Fallout and NV are very limited.
Click to expand...
A very inteligent person (Gizmo for those who know him) told me once

"Its the artist who makes the tools, not the tools the artist"

If you know about the engine limitations then you have to work around it and find ways to either show it in a different way or simply not make a "epic" location afterall. Particularly that boring end fight at the dam ...

Stanislao Moulinsky said:
Novac is located along the main road to New Vegas, Goodsprings isn't.
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But he has a point. By the way Goodsprings is just 50m away from Novac, yet Novac is called the "center" (which is pathetic actually ...) while goodsprings has a source of clean water which is even used by travelers and merchants.

I like the feeling of the Vegas desert. But I think they should have made it much much biger and concentrate on less settlements but making them more important. Like merging goodsprings and novac in one place for example.
 
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