Am i the only one who was pissed off at NCR for how they treated Arcade in his "Fight At The Dam" ending if they win? Treating him as a war criminal for basically only being a citizen of the Enclave? I wonder how many Powder Gangers were once former Enclave citizens who were imprisoned and use as slave labor (oh, sorry, "work release") and eventually embraced the criminal lifestyle, if only to get revenge on the NCR who oppressed them. Perhaps Moreno was right to hate the NCR. It was probably that vindictive b***h Moore's idea to hunt down Arcade. And this is coming from someone who really supports the NCR.
NCR's Treatment of Arcade In "Fight At The Dam" NCR Ending
- Thread starter X12
- Start date
Emperor
Simplesmente Rajuma
I highly doubt Powder Gangers had an ex- Enclave members among them. Even if they had the lowest Enclave personnel they would be more organized and more efficient because of the training they would receive. As for hunting down Arcade, one of the most hatred enemies of the past shows up in full clad armor and machine gun in hand, even when he helped them against the Legion, veterans and more ''informed people'' would put him in jail or just kill him for the ''imminent danger'' that him would represent.
No Man
Gore Bag > Meat Bag
Apparently 'I couldn't have commited any of those crimes, I wasn't even born for most of the war' is not a good enough alibi for the NCR. Doesn't an accusation of war crime require a war crime to be accused of?
Seriously though, Arcade is hunted when NCR wins, but escapes. This is understandable, since he was a member of the Enclave, but likely of unknown status. He's been keeping it a secret and ran afterwards, which doesn't add to his good name.
When NCR loses, he's caught, tried and imprisoned. Probably as a distraction for the public. You know, the old 'we are incompetent morons, who wasted countless lives and resources and gained nothing in return. Also, thanks to our dipshit general, there is a powerful army, that wants to kill or enslave us all headed our way, but look - Enclave guy and we captured him ourselves! Let's talk about that from now on' trick. Everyone hates the Enclave, so he makes a perfect scapegoat.
Seriously though, Arcade is hunted when NCR wins, but escapes. This is understandable, since he was a member of the Enclave, but likely of unknown status. He's been keeping it a secret and ran afterwards, which doesn't add to his good name.
When NCR loses, he's caught, tried and imprisoned. Probably as a distraction for the public. You know, the old 'we are incompetent morons, who wasted countless lives and resources and gained nothing in return. Also, thanks to our dipshit general, there is a powerful army, that wants to kill or enslave us all headed our way, but look - Enclave guy and we captured him ourselves! Let's talk about that from now on' trick. Everyone hates the Enclave, so he makes a perfect scapegoat.
And yet they dont bother hunting down the other Remnants, who WERE active during the war. Also I theorize that the Enclave, like most fascist countries and organizations, had strict gun control laws so that only the police and military had access to guns and training, better to control their citizens. Im talking about ex-Enclave citizens, not ex-Enclave millitary.
BigBoss
Your Local Scrub
People assume too often that just because there is someone who is trained or knowledgeable in an organization, that means the entire organization should be trained/knowledgeable. Whose to say that if someone in the Powder Gangers was indeed an ex-Enclave member, as soon as the riots started they bailed with their own group of Powder Gangers instead of running military drills with Powder Gangers in the court yard. And I highly doubt any Ex-Enclave Member is trying to stick around and listen to Eddie's bullshit. People don't always get up and "take the initiative". My guess is they probably struck out with his/her own friends (if they were an Ex-Enclave Member) and just harassed NCR citizens to scratch out a living.
Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
You're wrong.
Why Henry has to move from Shady Sands to Jacobstown in Mojave?
Especially when looking at hint from FNV:
So next time just check your info.
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Um, im not refering to current America, im refering to countries such as Nazi Germany. Please dont assume im trying to have a political agenda. I was just trying to put an explanation why the Enclave citizens wouldnt have the same training as Enclave soldiers.
Also, in those facist countries you dont have the option to vote on it (like in America), if they said "strict gun control laws" that means theres going to be strict gun control laws, no ifs, ands, or buts.
I meant why didnt they bother hunting them down after they fought at the dam and made their presence quite clear?
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Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Only americans think that gun control means Fascism lol.
I am prett ysure that, as stated above, the Remnants weren't in the Mojave just for shits and giggles, they have been escaping since Navarro fell, by the end of New Vegas the NCR can potentially be allied with the Mojave Chapter of the BOS and one thing they would have in common is their mutual enemity with the Enclave, the BOS would probably not take kindly to them letting someone with that level of technology and history to be running around by himself. There is also the thing about the NCR military not being that keen on international laws (what with not being any after the apocalypse), I mean you can participate in what amounts to prisoner torture for them, even if Arcade told them he wasn't even born when the organization did it's worst they could just choose to not believe him, I mean what proof does he have? The Followers are also not on good terms with the Republic so he also has no witnesses they are willing to take into account.
I would have liked an addition to that ending were the old Remnants bust Arcade out and he escapes into another region. But then again almost all of Arcade's endings are pretty sad, the best he can do is being profoundly dissapointed with his own goals but still hardworking.
I am prett ysure that, as stated above, the Remnants weren't in the Mojave just for shits and giggles, they have been escaping since Navarro fell, by the end of New Vegas the NCR can potentially be allied with the Mojave Chapter of the BOS and one thing they would have in common is their mutual enemity with the Enclave, the BOS would probably not take kindly to them letting someone with that level of technology and history to be running around by himself. There is also the thing about the NCR military not being that keen on international laws (what with not being any after the apocalypse), I mean you can participate in what amounts to prisoner torture for them, even if Arcade told them he wasn't even born when the organization did it's worst they could just choose to not believe him, I mean what proof does he have? The Followers are also not on good terms with the Republic so he also has no witnesses they are willing to take into account.
I would have liked an addition to that ending were the old Remnants bust Arcade out and he escapes into another region. But then again almost all of Arcade's endings are pretty sad, the best he can do is being profoundly dissapointed with his own goals but still hardworking.
When did i say gun control = fascism? I didnt. Please stop putting words in my mouth. I said that fascists countries tend to have strict gun control laws, NOT that gun control is inherently fascist.
Im not some loon who thinks "da gobnint is gonna take mah gunz away" I just read a lot of history and most fascist countries tend to take guns away so the people are helpless.
Kilgore Trout
Gyro Captain
This is why I almost never side with the NCR.
BigBoss
Your Local Scrub
Only non-Americans assume that Americans assume some bullshit that foreigners read on the internet.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. No offense...
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Yeah, could we let that part drop, guys? No offense, X12, but you were a bit unclear in your phrasing. As to the rest of youse mooks-- I do not theenk he was saying what you want to theenk he was saying.
As to Arcade, The Enclave were (are, to a degree) a highly advanced, highly dangerous organization who managed to exist and operate unnoticed right under the noses of some of the most developed and populous societies in the California wastes. The NCR are still, understandably, a little paranoid about them. They have to suspect they didn't, couldn't, have succeeded in wiping them all out, and any sign of their existence could mean that they're still alive and operating in numbers, or even that they have designs on the territory where they're sighted. To NCR, Arcade is an operative, the advance guard of a potential second wave invasion that's had four whole decades to prepare. I don't like the NCR any more than the next guy for how they treat him, but that's the wasteland, baby. It's ugly and it's pragmatic and, if you don't happen to be the player character, you usually have to be too if you don't want to be lunch for the guys that live just over the next rise.
It probably also bears remembering that they're currently in a costly guerrilla war with The Brotherhood, yet another powerful, advanced, ideologically-opposed organization, which I'm sure doesn't help their stress levels or their confidence that they've gotten the job done with the Enclave, who were obviously even more widespread and well-provisioned. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the NCR didn't just outlaw power armor and try to enact controls on advanced technology sometime in the next decade or two, or if there was some hawkish colonel who'd already organized a recon squad specifically dedicated to seeking out old tech sites just to make sure they weren't hosting a paramilitary infestation.
As to Arcade, The Enclave were (are, to a degree) a highly advanced, highly dangerous organization who managed to exist and operate unnoticed right under the noses of some of the most developed and populous societies in the California wastes. The NCR are still, understandably, a little paranoid about them. They have to suspect they didn't, couldn't, have succeeded in wiping them all out, and any sign of their existence could mean that they're still alive and operating in numbers, or even that they have designs on the territory where they're sighted. To NCR, Arcade is an operative, the advance guard of a potential second wave invasion that's had four whole decades to prepare. I don't like the NCR any more than the next guy for how they treat him, but that's the wasteland, baby. It's ugly and it's pragmatic and, if you don't happen to be the player character, you usually have to be too if you don't want to be lunch for the guys that live just over the next rise.
It probably also bears remembering that they're currently in a costly guerrilla war with The Brotherhood, yet another powerful, advanced, ideologically-opposed organization, which I'm sure doesn't help their stress levels or their confidence that they've gotten the job done with the Enclave, who were obviously even more widespread and well-provisioned. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the NCR didn't just outlaw power armor and try to enact controls on advanced technology sometime in the next decade or two, or if there was some hawkish colonel who'd already organized a recon squad specifically dedicated to seeking out old tech sites just to make sure they weren't hosting a paramilitary infestation.
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Languorous_Maiar
A Smooth-Skin
How?
According to ending:
DISAPPEARED
They still were incognito after the events of F:NV and have vertibird, so how do you expect NCR to hunt them down?
BigBoss
Your Local Scrub
They've done a pretty damn good job so far. They can go as far East as they want, but the NCR will keep expanding. What happens when they've stretched all the way to the East Coast and NCR frontier territory is just miles behind them?
What then? Go to Canada? Mexico even? I might even dare say fly to one of the Caribbean Islands. They could fly across the Atlantic, but I doubt there are any Enclave outposts in Europe, and if they'd even have enough fuel.
But we've got to face the fact that sooner or later, if the NCR doesn't collapse then they will just keep expanding until they hit the Atlantic.
What then? Go to Canada? Mexico even? I might even dare say fly to one of the Caribbean Islands. They could fly across the Atlantic, but I doubt there are any Enclave outposts in Europe, and if they'd even have enough fuel.
But we've got to face the fact that sooner or later, if the NCR doesn't collapse then they will just keep expanding until they hit the Atlantic.
Kilgore Trout
Gyro Captain
I think this rationale makes sense from the NCR's perspective. I always thought of it as akin to the hunting down of Nazis after World War II - even in the present day, geriatrics who served as prison guards in concentration camps half a century ago are being prosecuted. You can imagine if somebody showed up on American or Soviet turf in the 1970s or 1980s with a Panzerjäger (first WW-II equivalent of "power armor" I could think of) painted with an Iron Cross or a Swastika that they might have responded along similar lines.
Mohamed2001
HATE NEWSPAPERS
Ehh, I think that a Panzer III/Panzer IV would fit more. Although there were Panzer IV Ausf. Gs and StuG IV Ausf. Gs being used by the Egyptians and Syrians (along with STG 44s) in the 70's against Israeli. (there were also modified T-34s with 100mm guns, and ISU 152s and T-54s and IS 3s, Israeli had 105mm L7 armed Shermans though)
Anyway, the NCR are most likely afraid of them, since it's been 40 years or so since their downfall and they think they might have an army. I mean, it's like today and Neo Nazis, you don't want them to take control and start another war, right? So you get paranoid about them and continue to hunt them.
Legatus Nuntius
First time out of the vault
Itwould be the equivalent of going after someone in their 30’swho shows up with aGerman uniform. The NCR seems to suffer from horrible levels of ignorance abouttheir surrounding area and neighbors. Think of the stoner they have to workingon the solar array weapon or the naive attempts to negotiate with either theFamilies of Vegas or the Legion. The NCR were a decent wasteland city state,much like New Vegas but they fail at empire, the NCR or its leaders just don’thave the skills/knowledge to affectively deal with the different wastelandpowers or factions.
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You're not wrong about the NCR overall, but I don't think the reasoning holds up where it applies to their attitudes about Arcade or The Enclave in particular. WWII analogies aren't a great fit because there never really WAS a hot war with the Enclave.
Nearly every aspect of Nazi Germany's rise, war effort, and the anatomy of their organization were highly visible, even self-publicized. No one in the wasteland knows anything about The Enclave except that they're frighteningly advanced and that no one really noticed them the first time around until they were getting ready to make their move. There was no fuhrerbunker to destroy, no codebreakers listening in on Enclave transmissions, not even any real idea of who they were. This is an enemy the NCR only knows enough about to make them afraid.
Also, Nazi Uniforms weren't bulletproof walking tanks. Arcade is more the equivalent of an armored Spanish musketman showing up on the shores of some new-world tribe 40 years after the last bunch sailed off.
Nearly every aspect of Nazi Germany's rise, war effort, and the anatomy of their organization were highly visible, even self-publicized. No one in the wasteland knows anything about The Enclave except that they're frighteningly advanced and that no one really noticed them the first time around until they were getting ready to make their move. There was no fuhrerbunker to destroy, no codebreakers listening in on Enclave transmissions, not even any real idea of who they were. This is an enemy the NCR only knows enough about to make them afraid.
Also, Nazi Uniforms weren't bulletproof walking tanks. Arcade is more the equivalent of an armored Spanish musketman showing up on the shores of some new-world tribe 40 years after the last bunch sailed off.