brandons1313
It Wandered In From the Wastes
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Australian_TV_station_releases_new_Abu_0215.html
Just Keeps getting better and better...
Just Keeps getting better and better...
New Abu Ghraib Torture Photographs
- Thread starter brandons1313
- Start date
It Wandered In From the Wastes
New Order Boardpic:
Offensive material. Call it sensorship, ey, no free press on NMA? Pooey. - Kharn
Offensive material. Call it sensorship, ey, no free press on NMA? Pooey. - Kharn
SimpleMinded
Vault Fossil
alec said:
We don't need to show you what they do, they do it for us. The muslim fundamentalists have no problem broadcasting beheadings of journalists.
Kharn said:
How firstcitizenlynetteian.
Help! I'm being opressed!
DirtyDreamDesigner said:How firstcitizenlynetteian.
Help! I'm being opressed!
Meh, I didn't make the rules, but I think it's retarded to be allowed to hotlink torture pics and not allowed to hotlink porn.
I know which one I'd rather be looking at.
Consistency, though.
Lazarus Plus
The smoovest
Ah, nothing like a few-years-delayed-but-totally-justified wave of Muslim insanity to keep us occupied and feeling guilty.
Let the frenetics begin.
Let the frenetics begin.
Eh. Ew.
That's gotta suck.
Maybe not as bad as having your relatives mutilated in a suicide attack, but still pretty bad.
So what else is new?
That's gotta suck.
Maybe not as bad as having your relatives mutilated in a suicide attack, but still pretty bad.
So what else is new?
Ashmo said:
Dead is dead, and mutilated is mutilated.
I fail to see the difference.
I said mutilated, not killed.
's not my point.
Being mutilated by a bomb explosion doesn't seem all too different than being mutilated by torture.
But hey, mebbe that's just me.
Being mutilated by a bomb explosion doesn't seem all too different than being mutilated by torture.
But hey, mebbe that's just me.
Quantos Leap
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Jebus said:
Any mutilation one would recieve from a bomb is going to generally be much worse than what those detainees recieved. I'm not trying to minimalize the horror seen in those pictures at all, I just think you missed Ashmo's point.
Mingus said:
Sure.
Also, you are the one completely missing Ashmo's point here. I suggest you re-read his post.
It's only three lines, even you could make it.
Hey, I also said MAYBE.
Weighing different types of mutilation against each other to figure out whether one of them is worse than another is highly retarded.
I was stating a POV, not a universal rule.
The one thing that pisses me off is not that the soldiers mistreated the prisoners -- that's human (yes, it's gross and unethical, but humans are like that in uncontrolled situations).
It's the superiors who let them do it. And their superiors who let THEM let the soldiers do it. And so on. Whole fucking command chain.
If it was ordered, the soldiers maybe shouldn't have followed the orders. But that doesn't excuse that orders were given in the first place.
If it wasn't ordered, it's a disturbing example for lack of control. And that's something that should make you think -- if they didn't intentionally let this slip, the people supposed to control the soldiers have proven to be utterly incompetent.
THAT'S what pisses me off. That the army of the self-proclaimed Most Powerful Nation on Earth -- the self-proclaimed Beacom of Freedom, Democracy and all that is well -- is either intentionally treating human rights like they're just something that only applies if you feel like it, or have an utterly incompetent chain of command.
THAT'S what's wrong here. And THAT'S what should have been debated.
But what did we get? The soldiers were prosecuted. After the public heard of it because some of them were too stupid not to wave the evidence around like trophies.
It's a leaders job to be in control. That's how a chain of command works.
And if you fuck up at your job, you loose your job. If you commit a crime, you get punished.
That's how it SHOULD be. And this whole mess has just proven it's NOT that way, no matter how many useless talk shows they can fill with pointless chit-chat about what kind of "monsters" those soldiers must be -- while silently ignoring that everybody who knew them in person really liked them and that they were probably caring mothers and fathers and entirely HUMAN if you ignore the press for a moment.
I'm not saying the soldiers shouldn't have been punished. They fucked up, they get fucked. Simple as that.
But they're just humans. They're not four-armed three-eyed freaks of natures that eat babies for breakfast, they're human. And they acted like humans: Irrational and cruel.
And that's what the public should finally learn to accept. No matter how high we think of ourselves, deep down we like violence and catastrophes and bad things, and that's natural.
It's society's job, and our's as part of society, to control that part. But it's there and there's nothing "monstrous" about it, so stop making a fuss off it.
And again I repeat: I'm not saying they can't be blamed. I'm saying the really BAD thing about this isn't the way the soldiers acted, but the fact nobody seemed to mind until they were forced to act because it went public.
THAT'S where it got out of hand. THAT'S where the problem lies.
As for the suicide bombings -- I wasn't excusing these actions with the actions of Islamist terrorists, I was merely trying to point out that this isn't the only side of the medal.
As much as I hate to say this, the US isn't the only party involved in the conflict that acts inhumane. That doesn't excuse what they do (or, mostly, did), but that helps putting things in perspective.
Also, this isn't the only fucked up situation going on. Look at Israel and Palestine. Look at Africa, that's a whole continent full of bullshit like this. Look at Haiti or South America.
If nothing else, at least this shows (once again) that the US isn't on the moral high ground. They're not the one nation with a white vest. They've got blood on their hands, like everybody else. They're not "in control", or if they are, they're not acting for morally superior reasons alone.
This could have been a wake up call, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that that would've worked. And it didn't -- apart from watching the "special reports" on CNN like anything else, from the latest Michael Jackson child abuse case to the scaremonger "Could we be next?" reports after yet another bombing attack in the Western World, the vast majority of Americans isn't really interested. At least not in the underlying truth.
Whaddayaknow, I'm not blue-eyed enough to believe it would be any different if those were German soldiers, or British (some of them WERE British IIRC), or French, or Spanish.
After several thousand years, we're -- still -- only human. 'bout damn time we learn to accept that.
Weighing different types of mutilation against each other to figure out whether one of them is worse than another is highly retarded.
I was stating a POV, not a universal rule.
The one thing that pisses me off is not that the soldiers mistreated the prisoners -- that's human (yes, it's gross and unethical, but humans are like that in uncontrolled situations).
It's the superiors who let them do it. And their superiors who let THEM let the soldiers do it. And so on. Whole fucking command chain.
If it was ordered, the soldiers maybe shouldn't have followed the orders. But that doesn't excuse that orders were given in the first place.
If it wasn't ordered, it's a disturbing example for lack of control. And that's something that should make you think -- if they didn't intentionally let this slip, the people supposed to control the soldiers have proven to be utterly incompetent.
THAT'S what pisses me off. That the army of the self-proclaimed Most Powerful Nation on Earth -- the self-proclaimed Beacom of Freedom, Democracy and all that is well -- is either intentionally treating human rights like they're just something that only applies if you feel like it, or have an utterly incompetent chain of command.
THAT'S what's wrong here. And THAT'S what should have been debated.
But what did we get? The soldiers were prosecuted. After the public heard of it because some of them were too stupid not to wave the evidence around like trophies.
It's a leaders job to be in control. That's how a chain of command works.
And if you fuck up at your job, you loose your job. If you commit a crime, you get punished.
That's how it SHOULD be. And this whole mess has just proven it's NOT that way, no matter how many useless talk shows they can fill with pointless chit-chat about what kind of "monsters" those soldiers must be -- while silently ignoring that everybody who knew them in person really liked them and that they were probably caring mothers and fathers and entirely HUMAN if you ignore the press for a moment.
I'm not saying the soldiers shouldn't have been punished. They fucked up, they get fucked. Simple as that.
But they're just humans. They're not four-armed three-eyed freaks of natures that eat babies for breakfast, they're human. And they acted like humans: Irrational and cruel.
And that's what the public should finally learn to accept. No matter how high we think of ourselves, deep down we like violence and catastrophes and bad things, and that's natural.
It's society's job, and our's as part of society, to control that part. But it's there and there's nothing "monstrous" about it, so stop making a fuss off it.
And again I repeat: I'm not saying they can't be blamed. I'm saying the really BAD thing about this isn't the way the soldiers acted, but the fact nobody seemed to mind until they were forced to act because it went public.
THAT'S where it got out of hand. THAT'S where the problem lies.
As for the suicide bombings -- I wasn't excusing these actions with the actions of Islamist terrorists, I was merely trying to point out that this isn't the only side of the medal.
As much as I hate to say this, the US isn't the only party involved in the conflict that acts inhumane. That doesn't excuse what they do (or, mostly, did), but that helps putting things in perspective.
Also, this isn't the only fucked up situation going on. Look at Israel and Palestine. Look at Africa, that's a whole continent full of bullshit like this. Look at Haiti or South America.
If nothing else, at least this shows (once again) that the US isn't on the moral high ground. They're not the one nation with a white vest. They've got blood on their hands, like everybody else. They're not "in control", or if they are, they're not acting for morally superior reasons alone.
This could have been a wake up call, but I'm not stupid enough to believe that that would've worked. And it didn't -- apart from watching the "special reports" on CNN like anything else, from the latest Michael Jackson child abuse case to the scaremonger "Could we be next?" reports after yet another bombing attack in the Western World, the vast majority of Americans isn't really interested. At least not in the underlying truth.
Whaddayaknow, I'm not blue-eyed enough to believe it would be any different if those were German soldiers, or British (some of them WERE British IIRC), or French, or Spanish.
After several thousand years, we're -- still -- only human. 'bout damn time we learn to accept that.