Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Brahmins (?)
Antediluvian as Feck
naossano
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
... And profit...
Wasteland Wanderer
First time out of the vault
I don't think Bethesda could create a world big enough for vehicles and at the same time keep it just as detailed
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
FO3 was a lot bigger than it was when it shipped. They cut it down ~ostensibly because the distance wasn't fun to walk in realtime FPP.
One way to achieve this larger world, is to design it as usual (for them), then design the engine to stream in procedural wasteland at a certain distance from town, and then make the map the size of Falliout 1 & 2. Effectively you get the map-travel of the originals, but instead of abstracting the journey with the overland map, it would be a first person walk, or drive. The important thing is that it remain abstracted if so wished. This would allow the player to leave town into the waste, just as in Fallout 1 or 2, and have the random encounters of the originals in realtime ~or not; if they choose abstraction [ie. the inaccurately named "Fast Travel"]; always able ~except in combat to so-called "Fast Travel" at any time during the trip, to resume play once the PC has reached their destination... but always with the risk (as per Fallout 1 & 2) of getting ambushed, or having other encounters along the way.
Last edited:
Wasteland Wanderer
First time out of the vault
I didn't think of it like that though in my opinion for vehicles to even be worth it they would have to either take out the current fast travel entirely, make fast travel available but cost you resources (gas) and tell you how much rads you'll take and all that stuff (think of TES Daggerfall fast travel), or keep fast travel but make it to where you can only go to big citiesFO3 was a lot bigger than it was when it shipped. They cut it down ~ostensibly because the distance wasn't fun to walk in realtime FPP.
One way to achieve this larger world, is to design it as usual (for them), then design the engine to stream in procedural wasteland at a certain distance from town, and then make the map the size of Falliout 1 & 2. Effectively you get the map-travel of the originals, but instead of abstracting the journey with the overland map, it would be a first person walk, or drive. The important thing is that it remain abstracted if so wished. This would allow the player to leave town into the waste, just as in Fallout 1 or 2, and have the random encounters of the originals in realtime ~or not; if they choose abstraction [ie. the inaccurately named "Fast Travel"]; always able ~except in combat to so-called "Fast Travel" at any time during the trip, to resume pay once the PC has reached their destination... but always with the risk (as per Fallout 1 & 2) of getting ambushed, or having other encounters along the way.
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Why?
Good GOSH why? TES 'Fast Travel' is the silliest example I've yet seen in any game, by any developer. It doesn't even account for expiring drug and spell effects! Fallout [FO1 of course, and FO2] did account, and the PC even healed up on the trips, and could lose addictions during those many days or weeks traveling in the mountains and salt flats.
This makes it worse!
**What is the [common?] perception of what "Fast Travel" literally is? It honestly seems like some players actually believe it's a teleport of some kind [?]. All it is (in Fallout, Fallout 2, FO:Tactics, Planescape, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3, FO4?) is an unattended walk*
*(or a drive in FO2 ~which does cost fuel ~because the vehicle hauls equipment, and it does shave time [Days or Weeks] off of the trip... and the car can run out of fuel, and becomes unusable until refueled).
Charging resources for an unattended walk makes no sense. In New Vegas, when you are encumbered... the game [!?] disables the 'Fast Travel' option in the very time when its needed; [dumb]. Why should the player care how long it takes the PC to walk from the NCR outpost to Greenspring. Why [in hell] should they be forced to sit though it in realtime for being overloaded, instead of just advancing the game clock several hours? The PC is taking walking to Greensprings; an uneventful one at that. Overloaded, it should take several hours longer to make the trip; this should of course be entirely transparent to the player, aside from seeing the extra time passed on the clock when the game resumes [upon arrival].
In Fallout (and as should be in FO3/NV/ and the rest), the cost comes from any encounters that might or might not happen along the way. In FO3 & TES, fast-travel is broken; always has been. In those games you cannot be ambushed (until you arrive); and the player can pack their PC with a ton of loot, then use a single strength Buff to march across the continent with that loot, and have it for sale when they arrive. The buff effect should expire minutes into the trip; not miles into it.
In Fallout 1 & 2, encounters can cost ammo and medical supplies by enemies that might not be worth fighting; but in all cases it's just a walk; and the encounters are not guaranteed to happen.
FT costs should come from any unavoided encounters along the trip, not as some sort of ~privilege to walk fee.
Last edited:
Wasteland Wanderer
First time out of the vault
I know it is just an walk that you don't partake in. That's why if you have a car and you want to get from one place to another and you don't wanna do it yourself then you fast travel. Your car in Fallout would take gas and it takes gas to get from place to place. If you get from one place to another with or without you participating in the drive your car will consume gas. That is why if I want to fast travel from city A to city B it should not just be a teleportation but instead it should consume your resources like it normally would if you just took the time to drive.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
My idea for Fallout 5 would be 'FUCKHUGE MAP WHICH IS MOSTLY EMPTY' like Fallout 1-2.
Fast travel would be like the travel in Fallout 1-2, but you can leave and run around if you want to find hidden shit in the obscenely large map.
Cars/Bikes/Brahmin mounts/etc would improve map speed, but you'd need to maintain them.
Fast travel would be like the travel in Fallout 1-2, but you can leave and run around if you want to find hidden shit in the obscenely large map.
Cars/Bikes/Brahmin mounts/etc would improve map speed, but you'd need to maintain them.
Wasteland Wanderer
First time out of the vault
Honestly if Fallout just got more and more like the PNP version I couldn't ask for anything more. Not necessarily the dice aspect but the sheer size of the in depth roleplaying, vehicles, factions, weapons and all that crap
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
Why do you believe this? (Honest question)
There is no teleportation in any of these games ~except FO3 & TES, due to technical defect, not presentation (FO3 does account for travel time). A person walks to town when they cannot afford to drive. Walking to town doesn't consume money and resources; getting mugged on the way does.
The crux here is that traveling from point A to point B in realtime FPP, and via [so-called] Fast Travel ~are the same thing. If the PC encounters nothing on the trip, both should cost them nothing, but time. Traveling with a vehicle should incur fuel costs, but walking doesn't cost anything.
FT is not some kind of a PC service; it's a feature of the game menu.
Last edited:
Wasteland Wanderer
First time out of the vault
That's what I've been saying if you travel in a vehicle even if you fast travel it should cost you fuel. I never said it was teleportation I know that it isn't I know the PC actually travels from point a to point b
Gizmojunk
Antediluvian as Feck
I expected to see this in FO3:
I would like to have seen this:
I at least expected something like this to be in the game:
I was disappointed.
This would have been nice:
And this could have been interesting:
_____
I at least expected something like this to be in the game:
This would have been nice:
And this could have been interesting:
Somehow I missed the gist when replying. This is not a bad idea ~per se; it's ostensibly what we see in Fallout 1 & 2 at a cursory glance; but actually Fallout let you go anywhere, and the distance you chose... and it did its best to represent the arbitrary environs one would see at ~wherever it was they went.
Last edited:
I'd love to see more working vehicles in Fallout. I mean, they canonically exist, so I don't see a problem with a few more makeshift vehicles being around.
As for fast travel, if the game keeps the first person perspective, I also think the way TES II handled it would be nice. The gameworld has to be realistically sized for that, with the settlements far apart. You'd likely use a lot of procedural generation for the stuff in between. Fast travel would be a mixture of TES II and Fallout map travel, where you can choose your mode of transportation (including costs for food, water, shelter, and so on) and then have the computer roll dice for random encounters that you get to play out in first person then. This basically calculates your travel how it would work in real time, only sped up a lot. Having a working vehicle significantly reduces travel time and, for some parts, reduces chances of random encounters, although it might also increase them in other parts.
You could also walk/drive to the next town in real time, but like in TES II that would take a realistically long time, time that gamers would not want to spend on just driving to location. Still possible for exploration, though, where you fast travel to a certain location and then explore on your own in real time to find non-procedurally generated places.
Well, that's how I'd like to see fast travel and map size implemented. Someone up for making a Daggerfall TC?
As for fast travel, if the game keeps the first person perspective, I also think the way TES II handled it would be nice. The gameworld has to be realistically sized for that, with the settlements far apart. You'd likely use a lot of procedural generation for the stuff in between. Fast travel would be a mixture of TES II and Fallout map travel, where you can choose your mode of transportation (including costs for food, water, shelter, and so on) and then have the computer roll dice for random encounters that you get to play out in first person then. This basically calculates your travel how it would work in real time, only sped up a lot. Having a working vehicle significantly reduces travel time and, for some parts, reduces chances of random encounters, although it might also increase them in other parts.
You could also walk/drive to the next town in real time, but like in TES II that would take a realistically long time, time that gamers would not want to spend on just driving to location. Still possible for exploration, though, where you fast travel to a certain location and then explore on your own in real time to find non-procedurally generated places.
Well, that's how I'd like to see fast travel and map size implemented. Someone up for making a Daggerfall TC?
FO3 was a lot bigger than it was when it shipped. They cut it down ~ostensibly because the distance wasn't fun to walk in realtime FPP.
Any source for this? The way the engine works, you can't just start working on a gameworld and then mid-dev decide to scale it down. You'd have to rebuild the whole world for that.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
This reminds me.
I hate how the FPS fallouts are so 'cramped'.
You can't walk three feet without something trying to maul you, or finding a new 'location' or miniature town.
Even NV had this to a degree, but I found that the 'roads' were basically 'safezones', while FO3 had enemies fucking everywhere.
It was lovely finding a deathclaw of all things in the middle of buttfuck nowhere near Megaton.
Although it did then glitch fifty feet into the air and die...
Wasteland Wanderer
First time out of the vault
That's because generally the first person Fallouts are geared more to kids and people that don't like the in-depth part of the old school Fallouts.
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
NV is a rather mature game, detailing rape, disease, slavery, etc...
Wasteland Wanderer
First time out of the vault
And as an eleven year old I personally didn't understand any of that what I did understand though was that guns go boom and its fun. Now though I understand the darker side to it
ThatZenoGuy
Residential Zealous Evolved Nano Organism
I fail to get your point, kids don't get many things.
A kid could go through Fallout 1-2 with not much issue (Kids at least know how numbers work), and never understand the finer details, or what it means to negotiate or talk your way out of issues.
Fallout 3 and 4 are childish because of their retarded plots, not because part of the gameplay is shooting stuff in the face and killing people.
NV especially is quite good when it comes to passing quests without firing a shot, hell, you can talk to every bad guy in the game, and they won't shoot you on sight.
*Cough, Fallout 4*