No BOS in FO 3 Please!

welsh

Junkmaster
You guys know all of this, but just for the record-

The BOS does not belong in Fallout 3.

Let me start by saying that I am not against having a bunch of military types in power armor in Fallout 3. I am sure that the Bethesda developers could come up with some good ideas about how to incorporate some form of military faction into Fallout 3 that might look like the BOS but is not. Perhaps such a group might be more machiavellian, more power hungry or predatory, more dangerous.

But the Brotherhood of Steel doesn't belong on the East Coast and therefore doesn't belong in Fallout 3. To put them into Fallout 3 will probably repeat some of the mistakes in Fallout Tactics.

Some history?
What is the BOS-
Well the Vault gives us some idea-

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel

The Brotherhood of Steel (BOS) is a techno-religious organization, with roots in the US military and government-sponsored scientific community from before the war. The BOS is mostly composed of the descendants of those military officers, soldiers, and scientists, but aside from some outlanders among their ranks, the BOS is as close to pure strain humanity (prime normals) as you're going to find outside of a Vault or the Enclave.

The ranks of the BOS is generally recognized as being composed of the best and the brightest... which means the BOS is a relatively small organization, at least compared to the New California Republic (NCR). They make up for this with their frightening arsenal of pre-war and post-war technology: They have laser weapons, Power Armors, surgical enhancements, combat implants, and a squad of Brotherhood Knights who have the ability to erase an entire town from a map without a scratch.

The Brotherhood are generally good guys, but they have their faults as they don't care for mutants, worship technology feverishly, and in many cases, put it above human life. also they don't like to share their choicest technological bits, despite the obvious benefits their technology could bring to the wasteland. It's commonly accepted within the Brotherhood that the people of the wasteland are not responsible enough to use (and maintain) all of the technology the BOS has at their disposal. They are known for trading some of their technologies with frontier communities and NCR states, but they keep the more sensitive technologies to themselves.

Unlike the chivalrous knights of old, members of the Brotherhood are not interested in justice for the obviously weaker and less fortunate around them, but instead in keeping their secrecy and preserving and developing technology. Their motives are often unclear, and Brotherhood members are not people to be trifled with. It is safe to say, however, that if a group of Brotherhood knights appears to be helping some less fortunate people, their motives are not altruistic.


A small, semi religious organization, monastic in organization and focus. they are not simply a military group. Good guys, but not great guys. They don't trust people and are more interested in survival than justice.

Where do these guys come from?
In fallout 1 we learn a lot about the Brotherhood of Steel through the holodiscs-

The origins of the Brotherhood of steel can be learned through the holodiscs you pick up in Fallout 1.

# *** Military Base Disk***
• Oct 10, 2077
I, Roger Maxson, Captain, serial number 072389 have started this log because it doesn't look good for any of us, and I'd like for people to know what really happened here.
**END-PAR**
# -
All hell broke loose when we finally discovered what those scientist bastards were up to. The Colonel has locked himself in his office and seems to be having some sort of breakdown. The men are screaming for blood. They're looking to me for answers, and I'm not sure what to do. Someone has to do something, though, before this place sinks into an anarchistic bloodbath.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct. 12 2077
Every time we get a report from higher up things get worse here. The war is going in a very bad direction and this place is about to go into full mutiny, with all the chaos it brings. I stopped one of the men from executing a scientist today, and demanded that we interrogate them to find out what their orders were.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct.13 2077
I killed a man today. I was interrogating Chief Scientist Anderson and he was giving me the full details of their inhuman experiments. He said his orders came from the government, but I didn't buy it. He started screaming about how he was following orders, how he was a military man, and I just shot him. I tell myself it was to keep him from causing a full mutiny among the men, but I'm not so sure.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct.15 2077 I tried again to speak to the colonel through the door, but he seems to have completely lost touch with reality. I broke down the door with several of the men just in time to watch him blow his head off. Right before he pulled the trigger he said he was sorry.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct. 18 2077
By killing the egghead, I seem to have confirmed my position as leader of the men. They follow me without question now. The interrogations invariably end up being executions. Shellman held out the longest, but the end result was the same. Her arguments about orders were a bit too specific to be completely made up. I'm getting a real bad feeling in my gut about how this is all going to end up. I don't even lie to myself anymore about my reasons for executing the scientists.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct.20 2077
I finally replied to the outside world over our radio. I don't know why they never sent anyone here to see what was happening when we stopped responding to their transmissions. It doesn't make any sense. Well, they'll come now. I declared ourselves seceded from the union. Jefferson Davis, eat your heart out.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct.22 2077
What the hell is going on? We declare ourselves to be in full desertion from the army and no longer under the Government's command and what happens? Nothing. Something bad is coming down.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct. 23 2077
I can't believe those bastards finally did it. Damn them all to hell. They finally let the A-bombs fly. We were right in the middle of trying to pry the real story out of von Felden when we completely lost contact. I have a feeling the research center was hit hard. I don't know why, just call it a gut feeling. It seems inconceivable that we were not targeted. I'm sure China will make up for that oversight real soon. Luckily, we had moved our families from outside into the facility the day before yesterday. We do not yet know if the fallout has reached this area.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct. 25 2077
Sgt. Platner volunteered to go outside today to take specific readings on the atmosphere. It seems the radiation has not spread this far. Since he was wearing his power armor, there was no threat to him from radiation, but if he had been exposed he would have had to be exiled. We don't have adequate decontamination facilities here.
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct. 26 2077
I convinced the men that we should bury the scientists. I don't know why... perhaps it was to ease my conscience. I finally started to believe their stories when the last one was dying.
**END-PAR**
# -
My God, what have I become?
**END-PAR**
# -
• Oct. 27 2077
We're leaving this godforsaken place today. I'm leading the exodus to the old government bunker at Lost Hills. I'm leaving this log behind to be buried when this place goes in the next exchange. Who knows, maybe someone will find it someday.....
**END-DISK**



So what does our man Maxson do?

# *** Maxson Disk ***
By my orders, as active commanding officer following the untimely death of Colonel Robert Spindel during this time of crisis, the full base security team has been deployed to the security bunker at Lost Hill.**END-PAR**
# -
This directive also includes the families of the officers and enlisted men.
**END-PAR**
# -
Unless otherwise directed, from a proper representative of the War Department, this order will stand as written.
**END-PAR**
# -
Operative 1: All military personnel, and their families, are to vacate the base by 0800, 25 Oct 2077. All personnel, travelling under command, will make their way to Lost Hill base. No leave has been granted.
**END-PAR**
# -
Operative 2: All civilian personnel are directed to remain at base, pending orders from their legal command structure.
**END-PAR**
# -
Operative 3: Equipment deemed necessary to the survival of base military personnel is to be immediately drawn from stores. Proper authorization will follow, time permitting.
**END-PAR**
# -
Operative 4: All codes of military justice will be harsly enforced, on military personnel and civilian personnel in joint military operations.
**END-PAR**
# -
Operative 5: Until such time as consistant and authorized communication can be established with the War Department, these orders will have precendence over any previously established orders.
**END-PAR**
# -
Captain Maxson
24 Oct 2077
**END-DISK**


We get something of the BOS history before Fallout 1 in the story of the Honor Code and where the BOS gets its name.


*** Brotherhood of Steel Honor Code ***
# *** Maxson's History ***
My father was a security guard at a secret military base in the desert of southern California. A typical MP, I remember mostly his strength. When it came time for the revolution, I respected his convictions. He stayed behind, to help those who were disabled and wounded, even the scis. He put the well being of myself and my mother into the hands of his best friend, and ordered us into the desert with the other rebels.
**END-PAR**
# -
We, very few, marched into the wastes. The only thought on my mind was that I would never see my father again. He knew that to stay behind was death. And still, he stayed. He respected the flag, the CIC and the badge that he wore.
**END-PAR**
# -
What an idiot.
**END-PAR**
# -
He died for the sins of others. That will never happen again to us. We will become self-sufficient. We will become keepers of knowledge and lore. We will survive the end of civilization. We will take responsibility for our actions, and we will hold accountable the actions of others.
**END-PAR**
# -
This I pledge to you, Maxson, my son. The Brotherhood of Steel is justly named. We are a Brotherhood. Unlike my father, we will stand back to back with those that share our convictions and beliefs. We are Steel. We are hard. We have been sharpened to and edge.
**END-PAR**
# -
Always remember the fires that we were forged in. Never forget. The motto from a previous time, and our motto now.
**END-DISK**


And then what happened?

*** Sophia Disk ***
The Exodus from the accursed base was a trying time for the men and their families. While there was no radioactive fallout to contend with, they were frequently beset by the fallout of humanity. Roving bands of psychotic marauders attempted several attacks on that noble group.
**END-PAR**
# -
The company itself was in no danger, for they wore the Armor of Power. Members of their families were not so lucky. Once the vermin found out they were easily repelled, they began to fire on the unarmed civilians from a distance.
**END-PAR**
# -
They took a great many casualties, yet for every member of the Exodus that was struck down in this way, our noble brethren took two lives from the wasteland.
**END-PAR**
# -
Finally, the forefathers came to the safety of the bunker. Capt. Maxson, the great deliverer, decreed this to be our new home, and all was well.
**END-PAR**
# -
In the fullness of time the bunker became our home, our temple and our salvation from the terrors of the outside world. We began to build and shape our fortress into something glorious, the beauty of which the technologically bereft world had never seen before.
**END-PAR**
# -
Yet there were those who sought still more. These restless souls demanded we look to the southeast for the advanced technology that was supposedly housed there.
**END-PAR**
# -
Capt. Maxson warned these impetuous youths that the research facility was doubtlessly destroyed when we were spared, but they would not hear his words. They took their sanctified armor and headed off to find their Holy Grail, but not before they spoke the Deliverer's name in vain, questioning his very bravery!
**END-PAR**
# -
These men were never heard from again.
**END-DISK**


Note that the BOS is monastic and dedicated to technology, but not solely a military organization. Furthemore, they are isolationist in Fallout 1.
Doubts- check Chris Avellone's fallout bible #6-
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Bibl...erhood_of_Steel

I realize some folks might have missed this, but its back in the game. You just have to play through carefully and you get the story. Really.

SO lets go over the big points-
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Steel

The founder of the Brotherhood was captain Roger Maxson. He was a member of a military team commanded by colonel Robert Spindel, originally sent to the West Tek research facility on January 3, 2076 to monitor the experiments in the interest of national security. On January 7, 2077, all West Tek research was moved to the newly constructed Mariposa Military Base, along with Spindel's team.

On October 10, Maxson and his men dicovered to their horror that the scientists at Mariposa were using military prisoners as test subjects in their experiments with the Forced Evolutionary Virus. Morale in the base broke down, and Spindel suffered a mental breakdown, eventually commiting a suicide 5 days later. Maxson's men turned to him for leadership.

After interrogating Robert Anderson, the chief scientist, and learning about the extent of their actions, Maxson executed him, and the other scientists soon followed. Maxson, now in control of the entire base, declared himself to be in full desertion from the army via radio on October 20. Strangely, he got no response, as the rest of the army was busy fighting the Chinese threat. Three days later, the bombs were launched, and the Great War ended two hours after it started.

Summary:

Exodus
The Mariposa Military Base survived, the soldiers within protected from the radiation and FEV flooding the wasteland. Two days later at Mariposa, a scout in Power Armor (Platner) was sent out to get specific readings on the atmosphere. He reported no significant radiation in the area surrounding the facility. After burying the scientists in the wastes outside of Mariposa, the soldiers sealed the military base, then headed out into the desert, taking supplies and weapon schematics with them. Captain Maxson led his men and families to the government bunker at Lost Hills, and this event was later called the Exodus. In November, Maxson and his men, and their families, arrive at the Lost Hills later, suffering many casualties along the way, including Maxson's wife (but not his teenage son). The Lost Hills bunker became the headquarters of the newly formed Brotherhood of Steel.

Early years
Not much is known about the early years of the Brotherhood. In 2134, a faction led by Sergeant Dennis Allen gained strength, and they urged the Elders to let them explore the southeast ruins of West Tek, called the Glow after being hit by a nuclear bomb, for artifacts. The Elders refused, so Allen and his divisionist group split away from the Brotherhood of Steel, taking some technology and weapons with them. Despite that, under the leadership of Roger Maxson, the Brotherhood grew in strength, developing their technology, and the orders of Knights, Scribes and Paladins were formed. In 2135, Roger Maxson died of cancer, and his son took over as the High Elder of the Brotherhood.


SO we see a great reluctance to go exploring.

In the 2150s, the Brotherhood established its control over the areas surrounding the bunker, becoming one of the major powers in the region. Around the early 2150s a raider group known as the Vipers began to establish a power base in the badlands to the South of the Lost Hills Bunker. Driven by a religious frenzy (and the need to provide for their much larger numbers of soldiers and disciples), they began raiding more frequently than before, eventually attracting the attention of the Brotherhood of Steel.

In 2155, The Brotherhood sent out a few squads of scouts to track the Vipers down. This was more of a training exercise conducted by the High Elder than anything else, as the Brotherhood was convinced that a small detachment of troops in Power Armor would be sufficient to deal with a group of raiders, no matter how large. One Brotherhood squad, led by Maxson, found the Vipers. Expecting the raiders to break and run, Maxson didn't take into account the religious zeal and ferocity of the Vipers . . . or their poisoned weapons. A single arrow nicked him while his helmet was off, causing him to die a few short hours later. John Maxson, the grandson of Roger, took up the role of Elder, and Rhombus became the new head of the Paladins.

The Paladins, now led by Rhombus, began a full scale campaign against the Vipers, tracking them down and wiping out almost all of their members within the span of a month. Some of the Vipers were able to flee north and east into the mountain range.

During the campaign, the Brotherhood sent a few scouts and emissaries to the Hub to track down Vipers members, and from these beginnings, the Hub and the Brotherhood began full trade relations (caravans had delivered to the Brotherhood before, but not long after the destruction of the Vipers, caravan trains ran directly from the Hub to the Brotherhood on a regular basis).

Summary:

Super mutant threat

Several years later, the Brotherhood were to face an enemy far greater than any band of raiders. In October 2161, a Brotherhood of Steel patrol came across a dead super mutant in the badlands. They took the corpse back to the Scribes, and Head Scribe Vree began to study it. After several long examinations, it was shown to be completely sterile.

In February 2162, a man known as the Vault Dweller came to the Lost Hills bunker, wanting to join the Brotherhood. Not taken seriously, he is told to go to the ruins of the West Tek facility, which was now called the Glow, after being hit by a nuclear bomb during the Great War. When, after some time, he returned alive, and brought with himself a holodisk with the record of a lost expedition of several Brotherhood Paladins to the Glow, he was the first outsider in a very long time to be accepted as a member of the Brotherhood of Steel, even though some prominent members of the BOS resisted his joining the organization.

It was from the Vault Dweller that the Brotherhood learned about the Master's army and his plans to turn everyone into a super mutant. With the support of John Maxson, he managed to convince the Council of Elders to send a squad of paladins to the Mariposa Base (which had been, ironically, where the BOS originally came from, although by that time even John Maxson didn't remember it), where the Master's FEV vats were located. With the help of the Brotherhood, the Vault Dweller eventually managed to defeat the Master, and was never seen again in the Lost Hills bunker.


So we have an organization formed in Southern California that originate from a secret military base that they abandoned after they had already mutinied. They then formed the organization we know as the BOS. In Fallout 1, the BOS is reluctant to get involved- this is why Maxson sends the Vault Dweller looking for the Mutant military base and has problems challenging the other leaders to take more action. Those same leaders are willing to support the Vault Dweller's expedition because it might discredit Maxon. But only after sending the VD on a death mission to the Glow- so its not like they are taking new members even in the face of an invasion.

So what became of the BOS?


After the death of Maxson, Rhombus, head of the Paladins, became the new High Elder. After the death of the Master, the Brotherhood of Steel helped the other human outposts drive the mutant armies away with minimal loss of life on both sides of the conflict. Without the ability to create more mutants and enforce their harsh brand of justice, the majority of the mutant armies fled to the east, beyond the no-man's land.


By Fallout 2 the Fallout is in decline, barely able to keep small outposts scattered throughout the wasteland and concerned that the rise of the Enclave which is superior in numbers, technology and with a nasty attitude.

After the defeat of the Master, the Brotherhood had become a shadow of its former self. No longer the sole custodian of advanced technology in the wasteland, the Brotherhood was struggling to find a new identity. After they first encountered the Enclave, they started to raise small bunkers in various cities throughout Northern California, and in 2242 they eventually came across the Chosen One, the granchild of the Vault Dweller who, with Brotherhood's help, destroyed the Master in 2162. They sent him to Navarro to retrieve the vertibird plans for them, but it is not known if they eventually got them.

Then you get Tactics-

And Fallout Tactics screws the pooch-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_Tacti...erhood_of_Steel

Remember the intro to Tactics-

War, war never changes. It was the inevitable result of the path humanity had chosen. Everyone who entered into the conflict expected victory. Everyone was optimistic. But as the hostilities escalated, optimism faded and society began to collapse.

(Note to Bethesda, just because the game starts with "war, war never changes." with Ron Pearlman, doesn't make it a Fallout game.)


The great Vaults were built to house the wealthy, the powerful, the influential and those due necessary for their survival. Inside resources and technology were stockpiled, a final defense against the coming holocaust. With the past behind them, the present destroyed. They looked to the future.

This sturdy Vault Zero was to be the nucleus of the vault network housing the greatest leaders, artists and scientists. The inhabitants of Vault Zero were to reunite the vaults and lead the people to a new life and a new world. Then after the bombs, the world would be a harsh one. To ensure the creation of a post-nuclear utopia, the vault dwellers will need help. Machinery was constructed to tame a land hardened by the ravages of war, then tempered by nuclear winter. The plans were barely in placed when the first missiles left the silos. During the destruction, communications between the vaults ceased. Entire vaults were lost; those that survived were on their own.

Not all vaults succumbed to the machinations of war. On North America west coast, one group of military vault dwellers emerged almost unscathed. They surveyed the wastelands and squared their shoulders for the task ahead. These dedicated survivors salvaged the technology from the vaults. The technology was studied, replicated and fiercely guarded. For they knew while their power came from numbers, their future lay in scientific knowledge. In time, they formed the Brotherhood of Steel.

The brotherhood used their knowledge to drive back the atrocities of the wastelands. They proclaimed themselves as "The Technological Saviors of Mankind". They scoured the land in search of more technology, raiding mutant camps, bandit towns and broken remains of the vaults. Even they could not keep paced with the high toll demanded by life in the wastelands.

The Brotherhood found themselves at odds with their need for new blood versus their code of technological secrecy. The debate went lightly. Finally, the elders ruled against sharing the technology with outsiders, convinced that they would endure what they had before. Further discussion was discouraged and the elders ordered the minority on a mission across the wastes. Super mutants, the foot soldiers of a conquered army had been forced into retreat across the mountainous barrier to the east. The Brotherhood constructed airships and dispatched the minority to track down and access to the extent of the remaining super mutant threat.


Wait a minute? The BOS were survivors of a military base, not members of a vault. Oops.
Military vaults?
Their power came from numbers? What?
They drove back the atrocities of the waste?
Claim the surrounding wasteland? You mean hide out in a bunker and become isolationists?
But the BOS didn't accept many outsiders. How many BOS are we talking about?
Airships? WTF? They can barely man their outposts in throughout Fallout 2 and virtually non-existent.
When did the BOS turn from monastic knights to imperialistic and racist Nazis? You will note in the mission that Barnakey seems to enjoy crucifying raiders, re-education camps, conquest. Is this the same BOS? And if not, why?

(This is the same question we can ask about Fallout 3- do you need the BOS to tell your story, because if you don't there is no reason why you have to screw up the stories told in Fallout 1 and Fallout 2).

However, you should note that even if you accept Fallout Tactics as part of the canon (and most fans and probably a good number of developers don't think of Tactics as canon), you might note that the BOS is going west, not east. They end up in Colorado, not DC. Considering the nature of the war with the Robots (and everyone else) the BOS is suffering badly as it moves west.

What the hell are they doing in DC in Fallout 3?

So Tactics really screws this up.
Tactics suffers for its inconsistences. The problem lay perhaps in developers who wanted to do "the cool" thing and didn't mind botching the story in the process.
We all know about the hairy deathclaws (because apparently the developers misunderstood that Deathclaws come from mixing FEV with lizards), the ghouls that look like goths, beastlords (rejects from the Beastmaster series?) Reavers (because of course all this technology just happens to be there) and then there is the robots (because someone thought- "Oh wasn't the Terminator cool."). A better way to make a tactical fallout game would have been simply to do set up a series of tactical battles involving the California BOS fighting off raiders and mutants and perhaps some other bad faction. No that would have been too easy.

If Fallout Tactics screws the pooch- and thus does poorly in sales as soon as fans realize that the game is a complete mess.

One might take this as caution for Fallout 3.

That's not to say that the post-apocalyptic genre doesn't offer lots of opportunities. Hell you can probably get away with a first person game of Fallout on the East Coast (although Fallout Tactics offers valuable lessons at the price of making compromises in game design as well).

The caution here is simple- don't repeat the mistakes. Do not screw up a history if you don't have too.

Again, the Eastern BOS in Tactics is not like the original in California. The BOS in FOBOS, let's ignore that horror altogether. So why make the BOS? Because it sells? Making a compromises on art because of money is whoring out the game. Ok, you guys have the license. But you can respect what you own, can't you? You don't have to [censored] it out for a buck. Because if you do, than that says a lot about the kinds of developers you guys are. And frankly, I don't be buying your games.
 
Hello welsh,

The simple fact is, Bethesda put the Brotherhood on the East Coast because the Brotherhood appeared in all Fallout games (the main games and the spin off) thus that probably means to them that the Brotherhood should appear in every Fallout game, even if it doesn't make sense according to the lore.

Also, the BOS has already been changed, that GI article seemed to make it clear that the Brotherhood are now mutant hunters.
 
The Dutch Ghost said:
Also, the BOS has already been changed, that GI article seemed to make it clear that the Brotherhood are now mutant hunters.
I suppose that might make a little more sense, if they were wandering, solitary <s>vampire</s> mutant hunters.
 
By the way, the BOS Honor Code holodisk is not canon, since it doesn't actually appear in the game (it can only be found in game files) and contradicts other holodisks and the timeline (it says that Roger Maxson stayed behind, while Captain Maxson's Diary says that he led the expedition to Lost Hills, and the timeline mentions him founding the Brotherhood and dying of cancer, as opposed to his son founding the Brotherhood, like in this holodisk. The only way to reconcile both versions would be to assume that the speaker (Roger Maxson's son and John Maxson's father, first name unknown) is lying.
 
Good pick Ausir.

But don't tell those assholes on the Bethesda forums. They are still debating the logic of Tactics.
 
By the way, if we consider FOT canon, one explanation for the "military vault" in FOT could be that it's simply an in-universe error. Since the intro (and chapter) narration is shown being read from a book, possibly written years after the events in the game, the Eastern Brotherhood, comprised mostly of descendants of Brotherhood soldiers (I doubt they would take any scribes with them in their pursuit of super mutants), simply forgot or distorted much of its early history. Actually, even John Maxson, the High Elder in FO1, doesn't know about the Mariposa origins:

Well that was when my granddad, Roger Maxson, led his soldiers here and started the Brotherhood. He never mentioned where they came from, but it doesn't really matter, 'cause...well, this is our home now.

and Sophia says:

Vree seems to think that the research of new weaponry and the information gathered from Mutant autopsies is more important than our history. She has forgotten that our history is a vital part of our lives. It has gotten so bad that many of the new initiates don't even know who Roger Maxson is or what exactly he did for us.


As for the question whether the BOS in FO3 is the original or the Eastern BOS from Tactics, while the position of the gears in the Brotherhood symbol is the same as in the original Brotherhood emblem, the insignia, instead of being blue, black and grey as in the original Brotherhood, is mono-colored (blue), like the one used by Knights and Paladins of the Eastern Brotherhood, so the question is still unclear.
 
Personally I really never minded stuff such as the Beastlords (there were psychic mutants in FO1) or the Reavers who went so far with technology that they worshipped it and its manufacturers literally, of course it remains open where they got all that technology from.

Even Vault 0, the robots ane the Calculator are not that much of a problem though Vault 0 would have to be located in a different part of the Cheyenne mountain range as the Iron Mountain complex was hit by bombs during the War.

I still see the Calculator and its robots as the Enclave's original plan to retake the mainland.

What is a problem is, is how the situation was resolved without the Midwest Brotherhood becoming to powerful, suddenly controlling an army of robots, a 'super' Vault and a series of towns and bunkers.

In most of the endings of Fallout Tactics almost everything ended happily while the usual Fallout endings show that the player has some impact on the wasteland, improving things here and there but that the struggle to rebuild civilization continues. (thanks to the player who stopped the main threat that would otherwise wipe out all these settlements).

The best option would be that the Midwest Brotherhood choose to destroy Vault 0 and the Calculator to prevent it from carrying out its task.

However I am not a Bethesda apologist and I don't care about talking their Fallout screw ups 'right', the Brotherhood (either West coast or Mid west) shouldn't be at the East coast and neither should the Super Mutants.

Bethesda simply added both because they are recognized groups from Fallout 1 and 2.
And I am going to be severally pissed when we see an Enclave trooper which probably also appears together with a fleet of vertibirds.
 
I agree that Bethesda had to add BOS in to F3, to keep the same atmosphere but I personally never liked the whole crusader knights in shiny power armor thing. 1 I don't like the original power armor all that much. and 2 I wish they would make the game as realistic as possible even if that means taking out the whole laser gun thing. But I seem to be straying from the topic...so yah I really don't like the whole idea of having BOS in F3, but they kind of have to in order to keep the F1 and F2 theme. :roll:
 
Killian Darkwater said:
1 I don't like the original power armor all that much. and 2 I wish they would make the game as realistic as possible even if that means taking out the whole laser gun thing.
Are you serious?
 
Killian Darkwater said:
I agree that Bethesda had to add BOS in to F3, to keep the same atmosphere but I personally never liked the whole crusader knights in shiny power armor thing. 1 I don't like the original power armor all that much. and 2 I wish they would make the game as realistic as possible even if that means taking out the whole laser gun thing. But I seem to be straying from the topic...so yah I really don't like the whole idea of having BOS in F3, but they kind of have to in order to keep the F1 and F2 theme. :roll:
No they don't. The Brotherhood was in no way essential to Fallout's setting.

Also, your remarks clearly show that you have not understood even in the slightest what Fallout's setting is based on. Retro-future science-fiction, not realism.
 
So? Basically you are saying that you want to play non Fallout game without the Fallout setting. Which is completely irrelevant to this forum.
 
Killian Darkwater said:
Yes, I understand the whole science fiction type theme that goes with that era. I am just stating my personal opinion... :(
So, your personal opinion is that Fallout 3 should not have the turn-based combat, or the setting, or the perspective of the original?
That's a neat but extremely useless personal opinion you have there, pal.
 
No, sorry to disagree but I LOVE the Fallout Setting and perspective of the original but I could live with F3 not being turn based. That’s all I wanted to get across so get off my back ok. :?
 
Killian Darkwater said:
No, sorry to disagree but I LOVE the Fallout Setting
Yet you insist on abandoning that setting and going for more 'realistic' approaches, such as taking out 'laser guns'?
Pft. Don't make me laugh.
 
Killian Darkwater said:
No, sorry to disagree but I LOVE the Fallout Setting and perspective of the original but I could live with F3 not being turn based. That’s all I wanted to get across so get off my back ok. :?

Umm, if you REALLY liked Fallout you'd understand that turn based combat is essential to the franchise, as well as keeping consistency with the first game's canon. Go back and play the first Fallout again, since you seem to have missed the point.

Jeez give the guy a break.

Giving people breaks just leads to more junk posters and idiotic clutter.
 
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