No DLC for FFXIII

[UncannyGarlic]

I felt like gameplay-wise, sidequests were fun, some offered cool battles akin to what you'd find in the main quests; others are obvious fillers. The writing though...

Just like any Square Enix game, you could beat it in under 40 hours or spend 100+ hours on it; the difference from other Square games I've played is that they've actually bothered to make quests rather than having you simply explore the terrain, battling RE monsters all the time.

I haven't played it but I thought that it looked fun. My brother is taking a break from it since he just got worn out from beating the huge clump (I think all) of sidequests in the middle of the game (he's on the start of disc 2). To me, that's the problem with a lot of sidequests in JRPGs, they are fun for awhile but they usually aren't as good as the main quest (writing, or lack thereof, is a factor) but they simply add a lot of unnecessary filler that damage the experience in the end.

I was using it as an example of a game that literally half of it's content was sidequests. I'd say that while you can spend huge amounts of time with a lot of the more recent FF games in order to beat the post game content, most of the time is spent on grinding rather than the content.

I never got around to playing IX... I own a copy of it, and plan on beating it this summer.

I still haven't gotten around to beating it. I got pissed off at my brother years ago for saving over 6 hours of progress that was the least enjoyable part of the game for me and haven't bothered to pick it back up (I'm like halfway through disc 3). I really like it's system and making characters truly different is a good thing in my mind, all of these systems where every character can be anything with two or three times as many characters as you need bother me (I love FFVI for using 3 [?] parties at the end).

Final Fantasy X was my absolute favourite FF game, so it was really neat for me to see the world / story continued in X2. The writing was so-so, but the overall story was pretty cool, and I liked the ending.

I liked X's sphere grid but the game would have been greatly improved by giving all characters full experience without having to switch them in (something all JRPGs need to do but it was particularly annoying in X).

I loved the job system. FF:Tactics is an awesome game, and the job system was quite cool. I'd like to see it return to FF.

I love FF:Tactics and it's job system and I think that probably added some taint to my experience with V since it was much more simple.

I never got through XII, as I ended up in an area that I was too low level, and didn't want to grind it out. I plan on finishing it sometime. I liked the characters in it... the bunny eared girl was cool.

XII could have been fine had they went with their original plan of having Basch as the main character and not added Vaan and Penelo to try to appeal to japanese preferences. That said, the rare monsters are far too much of a pain to lure out, the story is too spread out, the gameplay isn't very interesting (the further you get the more you program gambits and basically just move, so "gameplay" is very passive), and not having access to all of the gambits and a sufficient number of gambit slots from the start still hurt the game pretty bad. It also has a lot of throw away sidequests and some retarded lost forevers (Zodiac Spear). I honestly liked the rest of the cast and thought that the plot was fine, the gameplay just bored me and the "protagonist" is lame, stupid, and completely superfluous to the plot, which got to me. Also, the post game bosses have stupid amounts of hit points and are simply about sitting through hours of minor adjustments. I haven't bothered to beat it yet.

Some JSRPG's have been awesome (Cross Edge, Disgaea 3, and Valkyria Chronicles) but in terms of a real JRPG, you're right...

Yeah, the TRPG genre has been where most of the excitement has been for the past while and tends to be under appreciated but I honestly haven't played anything very recent.

XIII seems cool, and the production value looks to be through the roof. Also, it doesn't look like it will be a "teenage melodrama" at all.

Agreed, it looks like it could be very good and the battle system interests me.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Funny you mention it, that's exactly what happened to me with Last Remnant. I got stuck on some drawn-out sidequest in Disc 2, going around mining for a rare material I needed to upgrade my weapon. I may or may not get back in the mood for playing the game again. I guess part of the problem is that the storyline transition between the two discs was kinda abrupt, so there's no story to return to at this point.

But well, I'd take extra side-quests over grinding any day.

As for job systems, iirc FFT was the next step in adding complexity to the job system. FF3->FFV->FFT->FFTA->FFTA2 I personally prefer the Tactics Advance job system because it adds the "race" into the equation... FFIX is basically a nostalgic throwback to FFIII, minus the job system flexibility. Which is OK I guess, but I usually appreciate the ability to develop my characters the way I want. The issue with both FF3 and FFV systems for me was that at higher levels (end-game) the range of useful classes was really small, so you pretty much got stuck using that one super-class that beats all others.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

But well, I'd take extra side-quests over grinding any day.

Grinding is a trademark of crap design, I'd rather have neither. FFVI's approach to optional content was a good one though, it basically took the main story and split it up with optional stuff (ignoring the Gau's crap in the Veldt and the Coliseum).

As for job systems, iirc FFT was the next step in adding complexity to the job system. FF3->FFV->FFT->FFTA->FFTA2 I personally prefer the Tactics Advance job system because it adds the "race" into the equation...

The jobs (aka sidequests) in TA pissed me off to no end and I honestly felt that there was a wider variety of jobs in Tactics. Add more jobs to TA and I have no complaints about the system, but what I played of the game seemed inferior to Tactics, though it doesn't help that it's inferior in every way outside of mechanics to Tactics so that almost certainly taints my opinion. I haven't played any of TA2 so I can't speak for that.

FFIX is basically a nostalgic throwback to FFIII, minus the job system flexibility. Which is OK I guess, but I usually appreciate the ability to develop my characters the way I want.

I disagree, what IX did was force diversity, thus ensuring that every character had different strengths and weaknesses and that they wouldn't all become basically the same (a problem to varying extents in V, VI, VII, VIII, XII). Sure, there's variety at the beginning but the longer you play the less variety there tends to be. Hell, if you do all of the optional content in XII you max out the license grid with every character about 1/3-1/2 of the way through the game, that's some fucking bullshit design. Classes only work well if you either get stuck with them or there are enough of them that there isn't huge amounts of overlap (FFT did a fairly good job, TA forced it even more).

The issue with both FF3 and FFV systems for me was that at higher levels (end-game) the range of useful classes was really small, so you pretty much got stuck using that one super-class that beats all others.

Yeah, there are some jobs that are just plain useless, which is another reason I wasn't a big fan of V.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

The jobs (aka sidequests) in TA pissed me off to no end and I honestly felt that there was a wider variety of jobs in Tactics. Add more jobs to TA and I have no complaints about the system, but what I played of the game seemed inferior to Tactics, though it doesn't help that it's inferior in every way outside of mechanics to Tactics so that almost certainly taints my opinion. I haven't played any of TA2 so I can't speak for that.

FFT has 22 jobs plus a bunch of character-specific special jobs. FFTA has a lot more, although they're split up by race. I personally preferred the more restrictive system of FFTA, since races have their strengths and weaknesses you have to think about when you develop your party. Overall, the system feels like a superior and more polished version of FFT. I'm willing to bear its GFX inferiority for this (I don't think anyone could expect a GBA game look better than a PSX game), and as far as I'm concerned the story and writing quality sucks in both, so I'd rather have less useless text to scroll through. I happen to like the FFTA/FFXII world setting more than I like the cliche pseudo-medieval FFT setting. I'd say the music is a lot more catchy, too.

FFTA2 adds two minor races and a few new classes for the old ones. It also finally explicitly links FFTA with FFXII.

 

[fireb0rn]

They've become more-so that way since VII. Gameplay wise, IX or X has the best (VIII has a fucked magic system and XII is pure crap, the rest are fine). Story wise I'd say VI, VII, and IX are tops, with different focuses (VI certainly isn't a teen melodrama, I'd say that neither are the other two but they are more arguable, especially VII). They are good JRPGs (some for their time, others period) with the exception of XII, which was a shitty singleplayer MMO. I liked their characters up until X, when they decided to put in a stupid, whiny lead character with a 2D love interest and XII where they added two characters (one of them the "lead"/narrator) who were complete garbage and added for the single reason of appealing to the Japanese (they are completely irrelevant to the plot).

That said, the Final Fantasy series as a whole gets more hype than it deserves. Chrono Trigger is probably the best JRPG ever made and Super Mario RPG is second in terms of TB JRPG gameplay. Final Fantasy combat is better than any flash game I've played though.

I was going to post my opinion, but you've pretty much summed up what I would have said.

Oh, and FFT was great, if a little easy. Actually, it's one of my favorite games. The gameplay was really fun, the story was great, characters likable, and so on.

Not expecting much out of FF13, though.

 

[rcorporon]

Kotaku posted some screenshots from the xbox 360 version, and it looks terrible. Guess porting from a blu-ray to a DVD means some serious video / audio compression.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

IIRC, it wasn't a port per se. Wasn't it developed on XBAWKS and THEN ported to PS3?

 

[UncannyGarlic]

IIRC, it wasn't a port per se. Wasn't it developed on XBAWKS and THEN ported to PS3?

No, it was originally a PS3 exclusive that they decided to make multi-platform (I'm still pissed that they haven't released a FF game for PC since VIII, XI doesn't count). The PS3 is the more powerful of the two systems, it just seems that it's also a much bigger pain in the ass to squeeze the juice out of.

 

[Surf Solar]

Normally I liked the FF games very much, spent dozens of hours with them. Especially the IV, the VI the VIII and the X were my favorites. But when I played XII they lost me completely. Such a terrible combat system, way to big areas full of nothing and grinding etc. It was the first full price game where I don't went through it.

No I see FFXIII is about to release and I'm confused. Shall I buy it or not? I mean, from the things I've seen, I already hate the combat. Come on, you're only able to command 1 character active all the time? I don't want to give my teammates orders, I want to control them like my main character. Hm... :/

 

[UncannyGarlic]

But when I played XII they lost me completely. Such a terrible combat system, way to big areas full of nothing and grinding etc.

The Sandsea is high on my list of the most ill conceived area in any RPG. XII might be a fun game if you basically do a speed run of it, I know that my roommate at the time was doing that and having a good time, though he sucked at games (he couldn't figure out how to change Garment Grids [had to look up the name] in X-2, a game I'd never played [still haven't] and found it in the menu in about 30 seconds) and I'm skeptical of his taste.

I already hate the combat. Come on, you're only able to command 1 character active all the time? I don't want to give my teammates orders, I want to control them like my main character. Hm... :/

Oh yeah, I forgot about that, that really sucks. I don't know why they decided to do that because there they had ATB games in the past that let you control your entire party. Hopefully they'll release a demo disc, but I'm guessing if they do it will be packaged with another game like XII's was (Japanese demo was released with Advent Children Complete, there is a gamespot review of it on youtube but, as usual, I hate the commentators).

 

[Surf Solar]

Maybe there will be demos available on the Playstation Network or Xboxlive etc. I will never make this mistake again, I want to play it before I buy the game (a demo), don't want to be disappointed like the last time...

Maybe the ATB System with 3 characters to control is too much for younger players so they threw it out? Anyway, I find it silly. I wonder if there'll ever be a FF with traditional Combat System.

 

[Ausdoerrt]

EDIT: Oh yes, here is the scene in question, with awesome commentary from the Spoony One. Skip to 4:30 to see the idiocy happen.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OgtQg_VZ4Y[/youtube]

Pff, the crappy review from an incompetent guy who spends like 30 minutes dissing the junction system which imo was the best thing to happen to FF since FF3's job system. I'm sorry to hear that his brain is too small to figure it out (it's REALLY simple like all things FF), but it somehow brings down the credibility of the rest of the review which sounds like an angry FFVII fanboy rant anyway.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that, that really sucks. I don't know why they decided to do that because there they had ATB games in the past that let you control your entire party. Hopefully they'll release a demo disc, but I'm guessing if they do it will be packaged with another game like XII's was (Japanese demo was released with Advent Children Complete, there is a gamespot review of it on youtube but, as usual, I hate the commentators).

I dunno, I'd say a sign that they're trying to do SOMETHING with the outdated and plain boring ATB system is a GOOD sign. Although, they went in the wrong direction - rather than making it a bit more complex and realistic, they dumbed it down further.

 

[rcorporon]

I like the ATB... Lost Odyssey was awesome for having the balls to keep it in.

 

[UncannyGarlic]

Pff, the crappy review from an incompetent guy who spends like 30 minutes dissing the junction system which imo was the best thing to happen to FF since FF3's job system.

Junctioning was fucked just like drawing was fucked. The junction system encourages characters not to use magic because it makes them weaker and you have to go through the pain of drawing more of it. Granted, that guy is a moron who thinks himself hilarious (I've seen another of his videos, didn't watch all of this), but that doesn't mean that he's completely wrong. I honestly enjoyed the plot when I played it (granted, it was when it was released for PC) but it's gameplay is full of significant problems.

I like the ATB... Lost Odyssey was awesome for having the balls to keep it in.

Honestly I think that ATB is pretty stupid and that regular turnbased (like FFX) is superior. Granted, FFXIII (which seems to be taken in part from Chrono Cross) utilizes it much better than most other games but I prefer FFX's method of handling turns.

 

[rcorporon]

I don't mind either system. The ATB has been used to great effect in games like Chrono Trigger, but the turn based is fine too.

I don't get why western gamers are so anti-JRPG at times... everything has to be all Mass Effect and shooting.

 

[OakTable]

EDIT: Oh yes, here is the scene in question, with awesome commentary from the Spoony One. Skip to 4:30 to see the idiocy happen.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OgtQg_VZ4Y[/youtube]

Pff, the crappy review from an incompetent guy who spends like 30 minutes dissing the junction system which imo was the best thing to happen to FF since FF3's job system. I'm sorry to hear that his brain is too small to figure it out (it's REALLY simple like all things FF), but it somehow brings down the credibility of the rest of the review which sounds like an angry FFVII fanboy rant anyway.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, the Spoony One, an idiot? Pssh, he just bashed a stupid ass game and you can't accept that. He doesn't make fun of it for being complicated; he makes fun of it for NOT BEING FUN. "WOOO! I sure I am having a blast fucking around with my stats every ten minutes!" Please.

And what's even worse is that piece of shit probably overshadowed Planescape: Torment. "OMG FF VIII!!!111! Look at those bishounen fighting OMG SO COOL. What's this? Planescape? EUUGH, that guy looks so ugly! And where are the giant swords? Lame."

EDIT: He's a pretty funny guy to me, Garlic. What don't ya like about him?

 

[Ausdoerrt]

Uhh, sorry I had 60 hours of fun with that game. How could I have possibly done that? Oh woe me, all the stats, they're too complicated! You opened my eyes man! We don't need stats! Fuck d20, fuck SPECIAL, they're not fun!

And admittedly, PS:T's battle sucked balls. Also, pretty much everything overshadowed PS:T because it's a niche game. However much we PS:T fans rage about it, the fact will not change. Diablo 2 overshadowed PS:T. Oh noes! Every game that overshadowed PS:T SUCKS!!!

The junction system encourages characters not to use magic

Ummm, no? You can junction certain types of magic and use the ones that aren't junctioned? Or cast the magic you draw directly from the enemy? In the end, using a magic card or two in the battle isn't going to have an abyssmal effect on your stats. And well, it's a sci-fi game that isn't magic-heavy.

But I like junctioning cause it's one of the few FF systems that made your stats relevant, and actually gave you a reasonable amount of freedom in customizing your characters.

The plot is typical teenage melodrama like pretty much all FF plots after FF7, but I enjoyed it back in the day a lot, too, because of the well-done character development and characterization.

 

[Stanislao Moulinsky]

Ummm, no? You can junction certain types of magic and use the ones that aren't junctioned? Or cast the magic you draw directly from the enemy?

You'd have to waste a command from your action menù. And why use magic when GF were more powerful, could be used for free, the more you used them the faster they appeared and -unlike 99% of magic spells- hit every enemy at once? Why use magic when the Junction System lets you make powerful combos just with normal attacks and commands?

 

[Ausdoerrt]

You still only use one command - "Draw and cast" - iirc it doesn't take an extra turn.

But you have a point - the game as a whole isn't very magic-friendly (except Rinoa's limit break), but I don't see that as a problem in general.

 

[rcorporon]

My main beef with FF8 (my brother bought it for me for Xmas that year) was that the characters were, IMO, hard to relate too. I didn't really like any of the main characters, and in an RPG, that's going to kill any game.