NOTE: Before reading, I'd like to point out "Fallout Fans" and "NMA members" is used as a general term. There are exceptions to every rule and everybody has a different opinion.
If you have any suggestions, corrections, or additions for the guide please pm me.
A Newbs Guide to No Mutants Allowed and Fallout 3
V 1.8
Why is everyone so negative about Fallout 3?
First, everyone is not negative about Fallout 3. There are more then a few users who are more optimistic about the game then they appear. It is simply the negative stuff that is more frequently discussed.
For the rest, it's a complicated question. The simplest answer is that most of the members on this forum have been huge fans of Fallout for a decade, and in that decade have not seen a decent follow-up to Fallout 2. Adding insult to injury, a promising attempt at a sequel ("Van Buren") was scrapped in favour of the excruciatingly bad Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel.
So, these guys are basically whiny fanboys who hate anything different.
Fallout 3 is not disliked because it's new. While alot of cynical comments about "Shiny graphics, nukular catapultz and 1mm3rshUn" may make it seem that way. The truth is over the years long time Fallout Fans have managed to deduce what it really is that makes Fallout, what it's about, and what made it uniquely "Fallout". Given recent previews, many fans feel that Bethesda is missing the point of Fallout. That the emphasis on swearing and gore and nuclear explosions (cars, the fatman. megaton quest) contradicts the original games.
Whats the big deal about turn based and isometric veiw?
It would be easy to say that it's simply because the first two games where like that, but that leaves alot unsaid. It's the idea that if Fallout 3 is a true sequel (and not a spinoff), it should maintain the core elements of the original games. While there has been some debate over setting vs. gameplay, the consensus is that turn based combat sits at the core of the Fallout experience.
But It's first person and next gen, it's got all new graphics and everything. Isn't this an evolution? A step forward?
Yes and no. Yes, it is an evolution, but not necessarily an evolution for Fallout. An evolution for Fallout, in the opinion of most members here, would be a full 3-D ISO (Isometric) game that evolved the system (environmental affects, more weapons/perks etc...) rather then change it. This is what the cancelled Van Buren project set out to do, and is currently held as the standard any future verison of Fallout should be measured against.
Let's put it this way: Fans want an evolution from monkey (Fallout 1&2) to Caveman (Van Buren). What there getting is an "evolution" from Monkey to Martian. It may be more advanced in it's way, but it becomes something totally different in the process.
But don't Fallout fans want to experience their beloved world in First Person 3-D?
Yes, actually, most Fallout fans would, but they would rather do it in a "spinoff" game. A game that changes the core dynamics of the game while maintain the setting.
Fallout 3 is changing many of the core dynamics while billing itself as a direct sequel. If it was Fallout: Vault 101 or Fallout: the FPS, it would likely be treated with more optimism.
I posted saying "I actually liked where Bethesda was taking the game/that everyone was too negative/The Fatman is cool" and got flamed to hell. I thought these guys where supposed to be fair and reasonable.
Most NMA members are reasonable, but not all. In any forum community you will find people who are quick tempered, angry, or just plain mean.
Of course, it helps if you use proper grammar, know what you're talking about, and don't make stupid comments. If you post saying "OMG teh Fatman is the shizt and ur all lame losers for not liking it lol". Then don't be surprised if your verbally eviscerated. On the other hand, If you post a reasonably intelligent comment about your opinion then most users will refrain from flaming. You're opinion will probably be debated, but that's what happens and it's generally not a sign of hostility.
Why does everyone hate Bethesda so much?
This might seem like an obvious question, but it goes deeper then "because their making Fallout 3 and the fans don't like it." In the past, Black Isle Studios (the original developers) had an open and personal relationship with the fans. Development information was shared thought the process, and suggestions and criticism was paid attention too and often addressed by the developers. In fact, there is a random encounter in Fallout 2 where a village full of "The Unwashed Villagers" is plagued by a character named Grim. This is a reference to the first major Fallout fan community and their issues regarding a spammer named Grim. Bethesda has been very secretive about their development up until now, and the relationship between fan sites like NMA and Bethesda has generally not been less then great.
Bethesda is also, thanks to Morrowind and Oblivion, a fairly large and successful company. As such, the company is seen by some as a big arrogant corporation that's out to make a quick buck there way, and that doesn't really care about adhering to the Fallout legacy. There are also fears the game will fail to live up to it's building hype, as some feel Oblivion did.
Okay, but why all the really mean comments about Todd Howard himself?
A) He's the producer.
B) He's also at the front of the hype machine surrounding Fallout 3.
C) He goes on and on about some of the features fans hate the most. Talking about how "violence is funny like Jackass" and seemingly totally missing the point about
D) Listen to the stuff he says and how he acts some time. He does not seem like the brightest of people.
Why is the "Fatman" nuclear missile launcher picked on so much?
Because, to many long time fans, it represents everything some fans feel is wrong with Fallout 3 so far. Many feel It doesn't fit with the Fallout universe, and just seems like something added to make nice graphics and please twitch gamers who love big explosions. It just comprises everything perceived to be wrong with Fallout 3 and Bethesda's attitude.
Why does everyone care so much about killable children? What are all these guys monsters?
Far from it. Bethesda's removal of killable children represents the overall problem that is seen with Bethesda's development process. Which is removing core elements of Fallout's design in favour of more "mainstream" or "popular" game design concepts (FPP, etc..).
Fallout is a "Role"playing game. The point of which is to play a certain type of character, and for the game play to facilitate any type of character you want to play. The Fallout games allowed for someone to, if they where clever, play the game as a pacifist, killing few if any human NPCs. Conversely, if a player wanted to play as a ruthless thief or raider, they had that option. Not allowing the player to kill children interferes with the ability to play as a truly ruthless character. This violates the spirit of Fallout's design, which was to emulate the nearly unlimited role playing freedom of a PnP game.
At the moment it is unclear whether or not Bethesda will have immortal children, or remove children from the game entirely. Either way, it is extremely unlikely that the children will be killable.
I notice everyone really hates Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. I liked it.
I suppose there's no accounting for taste, is there? Still, if your wondering why a mediocre Baldur's Gate: DA clone is so loathed it's because it raped the Fallout: Universe. While Tactics is somewhat forgiven (it's actual gameplay was good), BoS treated the universe like a big dumb joke and managed to have poor gameplay.
Alec.
That is all.
Glossary of Terms
There are a few words or phrases that see common use on these forums that a new user may not be familiar with. Yes, some of these are obvious, but I included them for the sake of completeness.
Van Buren: The codename for the original Fallout 3 that was being developed by Black Isle. It was rumored to have been 90% complete before cancellation.
Black Isle Studios (BIS) The studio that developed Fallout 2 and consisted of many developers from the origional Fallout. Also developed Baldur's Gate and other Forgotten Realms games. The studio was closed in 2003.
Jefferson: The codename for Baldur's Gate 3. After it's cancellation, the engine was used for Fallout 3.
Interplay: BIS publisher, sold the Fallout license to Bethesda in 2004. Considered responsible for the demise of BIS.
Tim Cain: Black Isle game developer. Considered the father of Fallout.
PnP: Pen and Paper games, such as Dungeons and Dragons.
GURPS: A PnP gaming system on which Fallout was originally built before licensing deals fell through.
SPECIAL: The Roleplaying system devised to replace GURPS for Fallout.
ISO/TB: An ISOmetric game with Turn Based game play. The original Fallout games where played like this.
Bethesda: The company that is currently developing Fallout 3. Previously developed Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.
Todd Howard: Producer and personal hype machine for Fallout 3.
Emil Pagliarulo Lead developer on Fallout 3.
Fatman: The Fatman is a portable nuclear missle launcher to debut in Fallout 3. It is almost universally hated here at NMA.
Glittering Gems of Hatred: A term coined on the Something Awful forums to describe Fallout Fans. Some fans have adopted it as a personal motto or description.
Fallout: Tactics: A tactics game set in the Fallout Universe that was developed outside of BIS. Provided solid tactical gameplay but did a poor job of translating the Fallout world.
Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel: A Fallout game based on the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance engine. Almost universally hated for it's rape of the Fallout world and poor game play.
Suggested Reading
The following is a collection of articles and features from NMA that every new user should read at some point.
NEWBrother None and SuAside preview Fallout 3!
Fallout 3: Who is this for?
History of Fallout
Glittering Gems of Hatred (About fallout fans)
Fallout 3 FAQ
About Fallout
About Van Buren
Okay, I read the articles and this thread. Any more advice?
Yes, lurk. This is a community with strong roots and alot of unique members and opinions spanning every spectrum. The only way to really get comfortable with the forum and the community is to surf and read the forums. This thread should give a good idea of what your going into, but nothing is better then reading the actual discussions that have made this community what it is.
Get to know the forum, know the people, and know the situation. Only then can you post without looking like an Asshat.
Welcome to the wasteland.
If you have any suggestions, corrections, or additions for the guide please pm me.
A Newbs Guide to No Mutants Allowed and Fallout 3
V 1.8
Why is everyone so negative about Fallout 3?
First, everyone is not negative about Fallout 3. There are more then a few users who are more optimistic about the game then they appear. It is simply the negative stuff that is more frequently discussed.
For the rest, it's a complicated question. The simplest answer is that most of the members on this forum have been huge fans of Fallout for a decade, and in that decade have not seen a decent follow-up to Fallout 2. Adding insult to injury, a promising attempt at a sequel ("Van Buren") was scrapped in favour of the excruciatingly bad Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel.
So, these guys are basically whiny fanboys who hate anything different.
Fallout 3 is not disliked because it's new. While alot of cynical comments about "Shiny graphics, nukular catapultz and 1mm3rshUn" may make it seem that way. The truth is over the years long time Fallout Fans have managed to deduce what it really is that makes Fallout, what it's about, and what made it uniquely "Fallout". Given recent previews, many fans feel that Bethesda is missing the point of Fallout. That the emphasis on swearing and gore and nuclear explosions (cars, the fatman. megaton quest) contradicts the original games.
Whats the big deal about turn based and isometric veiw?
It would be easy to say that it's simply because the first two games where like that, but that leaves alot unsaid. It's the idea that if Fallout 3 is a true sequel (and not a spinoff), it should maintain the core elements of the original games. While there has been some debate over setting vs. gameplay, the consensus is that turn based combat sits at the core of the Fallout experience.
But It's first person and next gen, it's got all new graphics and everything. Isn't this an evolution? A step forward?
Yes and no. Yes, it is an evolution, but not necessarily an evolution for Fallout. An evolution for Fallout, in the opinion of most members here, would be a full 3-D ISO (Isometric) game that evolved the system (environmental affects, more weapons/perks etc...) rather then change it. This is what the cancelled Van Buren project set out to do, and is currently held as the standard any future verison of Fallout should be measured against.
Let's put it this way: Fans want an evolution from monkey (Fallout 1&2) to Caveman (Van Buren). What there getting is an "evolution" from Monkey to Martian. It may be more advanced in it's way, but it becomes something totally different in the process.
But don't Fallout fans want to experience their beloved world in First Person 3-D?
Yes, actually, most Fallout fans would, but they would rather do it in a "spinoff" game. A game that changes the core dynamics of the game while maintain the setting.
Fallout 3 is changing many of the core dynamics while billing itself as a direct sequel. If it was Fallout: Vault 101 or Fallout: the FPS, it would likely be treated with more optimism.
I posted saying "I actually liked where Bethesda was taking the game/that everyone was too negative/The Fatman is cool" and got flamed to hell. I thought these guys where supposed to be fair and reasonable.
Most NMA members are reasonable, but not all. In any forum community you will find people who are quick tempered, angry, or just plain mean.
Of course, it helps if you use proper grammar, know what you're talking about, and don't make stupid comments. If you post saying "OMG teh Fatman is the shizt and ur all lame losers for not liking it lol". Then don't be surprised if your verbally eviscerated. On the other hand, If you post a reasonably intelligent comment about your opinion then most users will refrain from flaming. You're opinion will probably be debated, but that's what happens and it's generally not a sign of hostility.
TehSeel said:
Why does everyone hate Bethesda so much?
This might seem like an obvious question, but it goes deeper then "because their making Fallout 3 and the fans don't like it." In the past, Black Isle Studios (the original developers) had an open and personal relationship with the fans. Development information was shared thought the process, and suggestions and criticism was paid attention too and often addressed by the developers. In fact, there is a random encounter in Fallout 2 where a village full of "The Unwashed Villagers" is plagued by a character named Grim. This is a reference to the first major Fallout fan community and their issues regarding a spammer named Grim. Bethesda has been very secretive about their development up until now, and the relationship between fan sites like NMA and Bethesda has generally not been less then great.
Bethesda is also, thanks to Morrowind and Oblivion, a fairly large and successful company. As such, the company is seen by some as a big arrogant corporation that's out to make a quick buck there way, and that doesn't really care about adhering to the Fallout legacy. There are also fears the game will fail to live up to it's building hype, as some feel Oblivion did.
zioburosky13 said:
Okay, but why all the really mean comments about Todd Howard himself?
A) He's the producer.
B) He's also at the front of the hype machine surrounding Fallout 3.
C) He goes on and on about some of the features fans hate the most. Talking about how "violence is funny like Jackass" and seemingly totally missing the point about
D) Listen to the stuff he says and how he acts some time. He does not seem like the brightest of people.
Why is the "Fatman" nuclear missile launcher picked on so much?
Because, to many long time fans, it represents everything some fans feel is wrong with Fallout 3 so far. Many feel It doesn't fit with the Fallout universe, and just seems like something added to make nice graphics and please twitch gamers who love big explosions. It just comprises everything perceived to be wrong with Fallout 3 and Bethesda's attitude.
the4thlaw said:
Why does everyone care so much about killable children? What are all these guys monsters?
Far from it. Bethesda's removal of killable children represents the overall problem that is seen with Bethesda's development process. Which is removing core elements of Fallout's design in favour of more "mainstream" or "popular" game design concepts (FPP, etc..).
Fallout is a "Role"playing game. The point of which is to play a certain type of character, and for the game play to facilitate any type of character you want to play. The Fallout games allowed for someone to, if they where clever, play the game as a pacifist, killing few if any human NPCs. Conversely, if a player wanted to play as a ruthless thief or raider, they had that option. Not allowing the player to kill children interferes with the ability to play as a truly ruthless character. This violates the spirit of Fallout's design, which was to emulate the nearly unlimited role playing freedom of a PnP game.
At the moment it is unclear whether or not Bethesda will have immortal children, or remove children from the game entirely. Either way, it is extremely unlikely that the children will be killable.
Sander said:
I notice everyone really hates Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel. I liked it.
I suppose there's no accounting for taste, is there? Still, if your wondering why a mediocre Baldur's Gate: DA clone is so loathed it's because it raped the Fallout: Universe. While Tactics is somewhat forgiven (it's actual gameplay was good), BoS treated the universe like a big dumb joke and managed to have poor gameplay.
Alec.
Alec said:
That is all.
Glossary of Terms
There are a few words or phrases that see common use on these forums that a new user may not be familiar with. Yes, some of these are obvious, but I included them for the sake of completeness.
Van Buren: The codename for the original Fallout 3 that was being developed by Black Isle. It was rumored to have been 90% complete before cancellation.
Black Isle Studios (BIS) The studio that developed Fallout 2 and consisted of many developers from the origional Fallout. Also developed Baldur's Gate and other Forgotten Realms games. The studio was closed in 2003.
Jefferson: The codename for Baldur's Gate 3. After it's cancellation, the engine was used for Fallout 3.
Interplay: BIS publisher, sold the Fallout license to Bethesda in 2004. Considered responsible for the demise of BIS.
Tim Cain: Black Isle game developer. Considered the father of Fallout.
PnP: Pen and Paper games, such as Dungeons and Dragons.
GURPS: A PnP gaming system on which Fallout was originally built before licensing deals fell through.
SPECIAL: The Roleplaying system devised to replace GURPS for Fallout.
ISO/TB: An ISOmetric game with Turn Based game play. The original Fallout games where played like this.
Bethesda: The company that is currently developing Fallout 3. Previously developed Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.
Todd Howard: Producer and personal hype machine for Fallout 3.
Emil Pagliarulo Lead developer on Fallout 3.
Fatman: The Fatman is a portable nuclear missle launcher to debut in Fallout 3. It is almost universally hated here at NMA.
Glittering Gems of Hatred: A term coined on the Something Awful forums to describe Fallout Fans. Some fans have adopted it as a personal motto or description.
Fallout: Tactics: A tactics game set in the Fallout Universe that was developed outside of BIS. Provided solid tactical gameplay but did a poor job of translating the Fallout world.
Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel: A Fallout game based on the Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance engine. Almost universally hated for it's rape of the Fallout world and poor game play.
Suggested Reading
The following is a collection of articles and features from NMA that every new user should read at some point.
NEWBrother None and SuAside preview Fallout 3!
Fallout 3: Who is this for?
History of Fallout
Glittering Gems of Hatred (About fallout fans)
Fallout 3 FAQ
About Fallout
About Van Buren
Okay, I read the articles and this thread. Any more advice?
Yes, lurk. This is a community with strong roots and alot of unique members and opinions spanning every spectrum. The only way to really get comfortable with the forum and the community is to surf and read the forums. This thread should give a good idea of what your going into, but nothing is better then reading the actual discussions that have made this community what it is.
Get to know the forum, know the people, and know the situation. Only then can you post without looking like an Asshat.
Welcome to the wasteland.
