North Korea has a new toy

welsh said:
I actually suggested that the US be willing to make a credible threat to North Korea of going to war, yes.

Heh, maybe. Not very realistic, though.

welsh said:
My suggestion was to offer a way out. If China wants to help, let them take Kim. He's there ally and it helps resolve the problem.

Either that or it's the only resolution the the problem, in reality.

welsh said:
And if North Korea doesn't budge, yes begin the bombing and begin removing Kim's military ability until he caves.

Ok, good luck with that, because that worked really well during WW II. Oh, wait, no it didn't.

welsh said:
Will South Korea or Japan go for it? I am not sure if Japan or Seoul really want to be subject to nuclear blackmail. Kim has threatened to strike with his missiles- that's a threat.

A nuclear reactor being blown up means a wave of radiation rolling all over the area. That's not a threat, that's a fact. Are you saying Japan and SK will accept that these two are the only existing alternatives? Don't be ridiculous.

welsh said:
Sanctions? China is not going to starve North Korea and if China is willing to turn the blind eye, the North Koreas could move their technology out through China.

*sighs* Look, your unwillingness to read what I write and to read the article I linked to are beginning to get a bit tiring.

welsh said:
As for your comparison with Europe, your comparison was shit to begin with.

That's unsurprising since I never actually made any comparison to Europe to begin with.

welsh said:
What can the US do- it can level North Korea to the ground. But it won't be cheap and it won't be easy. But it can be done.

Sure can. And while you're at it, you could solve the Mexican immigrant problem by levelling Mexico too!

But waking up and getting back to reality might be a more viable option.

welsh said:
Japan and South Korea are defenseless? What are you smoking? Japan's small defense budget (about 1% of GNP) still outstrips most of the world.

Yes, I'm sure China and North Korea feel badly threatened.

welsh said:
There are roughly 150K troops in Iraq. The US Military is over 1 million strong in the US alone, add another 80K in Asia, add nearly . The US marines is larger and more capable than the Israeli military. Check for yourself so you can get your facts straight .

No, you get your facts straight, these numbers are meaningless, you do not have the capability left to deploy a force over an ocean strong enough to beat NK's 1.2 million soldiers. This is not speculation, it is fact, and idle numbers about how many troops you "theoretically" have left are meaningless in the flace that your deployment capability and funds are currently both running on empty.

welsh said:
Oh and if those bases were not useful to anyone, than its ironic that North Korea has been trying to get the US to get those bases closed for years. Apparently they think those bases matter?

You know that logic is false. You're sitting in their back yard, they don't like that. Of course they don't like that, it's only natural. Does that mean they're trembling in their boots? Nope.

welsh said:
Why? Because those forces are a tripwire force for a potential invasion. If North Korea invades, it promises massive US retaliation.

Yes, I know that. Did I state anywhere that North Korea is a viable threat to invade SK? Nope. That's as unlikely and as much of a military impossibility as the US invading NK. That's exactly why I marked it "not a threat". You seem to be agreeing with me, oddly enough.

welsh said:
So what? You're saying Russia would flatten China?

Where did I say that? I'm getting really tired of your putting words in my mouth, welsh, next time you say "you're saying" please actually quote me or shut the hell up.

welsh said:
You're suggesting China would flatten North Korea?

Nope, never suggested that. I suggested Russia could flatten NK, not China. You're confusing quite a lot of things here, please pay more attention.

welsh said:
Excuse me? China is economic competitor with South Korea. North Korea has been an ally of China. You expect China to do what? What the fuck does China care if South Korea and Japan are threatened? Only perhaps if Japan considers arms racing will China take it seriously. And what does China get- more reason to build an army, more reason to be belligerent?

A bit short-sighted Kharn.

North Korea is an unstable and liable ally. China doesn't feel like dealing with all this shit especially since Iran is pulling the same stunt, it has no real interest in a military competition in the area, not when it's starting to beat out everyone anyway, and North Korea's attitude in the area are just isolating it from the rest.

AGAIN, like I said at least 2 times before, the pros and cons-ballance of the Chinese support of NK are starting to lean towards the cons. This is very obvious. Reading the article I linked to, as I have suggested twice, would be a nice start, because I'm really tired of playing the broken record when you refuse to take in what I'm saying.

welsh said:
As for the US 21/2 war doctrine- It's existed for about 40 years in one form or another, begun under Kennedy and followed under Johnson, changed to 1 1/2 war under Nixon, back up to two wars and now is being reconsidered.

Reconsidered but deconstructed, there's no viability left in this post-Clinton and Bush Jr., not with Dick's policies.

welsh said:
But the crux of your argument is-

Considering your inability to absorb what I'm saying, I don't think you're in any position to tell me what the crux of my argument is. Please follow a course in Reading 101 before trying again.

welsh said:
(1) the US is incompetent and incapable of doing anything- which is clearly your typical bullshit anti-Americanism.

Never said it's incompetent. It's incapability is a well-documented fact based on the simple reality of your current military expenditure and capability. A draft is an option, but not a viable option unless NK becomes a more direct threat, as it'll simply lack the popular base to be run through. In other words, you also lack the willpower.

Your anti-Americanist remark is an empty Ad Hominem in no way backed up by reality or earlier statements by me. It's cute, but useless. I suggest you try actually arguing before simply throwing everything into empty demagogery, welsh. I know it's easy to shrug and go "hell, it's just anti-Americanism", but that kind of blind-siding doesn't often lead to the truth.

welsh said:
(2) China should do everything because its the only country that can. Which equals a whole lot of nothin.

Inaccurate assesment of the situation. Also, not what I said. I said China is practically the only country that can do anything (not 100% so, there are other players, including the US, they're just mostly irrelevant). I never made any value statement as to whether or not they should, I just said it's the only option. Apart from Russia flattening NK, but that's not happening either.

welsh said:
(3) The logical conclusion is that the US should just get out of Asia.

Ok, that's it. Fuck you. Seriously. I never said that, I never hinted at it, how dare you even imply that this is the crux of my argument? That is just weak mouthstuffing.

PS: let's quote a bit of Pat Buchanan:

U.S. forces on the DMZ are now as much hostages to the North Korean military as they are defenders of the South. It is less credible today than yesterday that America would launch any pre-emptive strike on North Korea — with our forces in Pyongyang’s nuclear gun sights.

It is also impossible to believe the United States, its forces stretched thin by Iraq and Afghanistan, would send another army of a third of a million men to fight a land war with North Korea, as we did over half a century ago. Why, then, do we keep an army in South Korea?

(...)

China is said to be enraged that North Korea has defied it by detonating a nuclear device. Beijing should be. For the Chinese-Russian monopoly on nuclear weapons in North Asia has been broken. And the democracies there are unlikely to endure a situation where they can be subjected to missile and nuclear blackmail by a backward, bellicose little dictator like Kim Jong-Il.
 
Why do you sound as if China and Russia posses threat to the world ? its not like anyone would want to start a war. Military buildup is normal and every country does it. And yes China probably won't do much about NK because any conflict means unstable economies which is always bad news.

And you sound like your a war junkie ... there are other ways to solve problems apart from military actions. Also you sound like the US Army is undefeatable ..no doubt US spends billions in developing high tech weapons but wars aren't aways won that way
 
Also you sound like the US Army is undefeatable ..no doubt US spends billions in developing high tech weapons but wars aren't aways won that way

Fighting who, the Koreans or the Chinese?

South Korea can ride roughshod over North Korea on its own as it is. NK can't really do anything, but the only power that has the will and the ability to do anything about it is, as Kharn said, China.

NK is only an ally to China in that they're a buffer between American presence in Korea, but if maybe we could negotiate a deal with China and the South Korean government about that, attitudes in Beijing might change.
 
Assuming that shit still even works, and could keep up a constant barrage under South Korean or American air power.
 
Bradylama said:
Assuming that shit still even works, and could keep up a constant barrage under South Korean or American air power.
How many billions of dollars of damage and how many hundreds of thousands of people would be dead by the time we could get our air power and artillery co-ordinated?


Any victory resulting from a first strike by NK would be Pyrrhic. Seoul is the third largest metropolitan area in the world, and among the most densly populated cities in the world.
 
That still doesn't mean they can even hit it, either. They haven't even fired most of those guns since the Korean War. How do we really know if they'll work, let alone whether or not they can hit Seoul. Irregardless of the size of the place, it'd take a lot of lucky first shots to do any damage, and by the time they can zero in, they'd have to hide the guns anyway because of the air response.

Hundreds of thousands is a laughable figure, even assuming that those ancient pieces can even achieve the most optimistic results.
 
That still doesn't mean they can even hit it, either.

They can, that's the conventional deterrent that has been keeping everyone in the diplomatic path until now, making the tie of the Korean War status quo. With nukes on the horizont things get even more serious.


This doesn't happen much, but i agree with John :)
 
Bradylama said:
Assuming that shit still even works, and could keep up a constant barrage under South Korean or American air power.
I hate to brake it to you, but I seem to remember a South Korean missile test that didn't went as well as hopped(by NKs) but still it gave them the potency to threaten the whole neighborhood.(Though not US, as was it's supposed optimum result.)
 
From the Atlantic Monthly, by Kaplan.

The abbreviation for North Korea used by American military officers says it all: KFR, the Kim Family Regime. It is a regime whose demonization by the American media and policy makers has obscured some vital facts. North Korea’s founder, Kim Il Sung, was not merely a dreary Stalinist tyrant. As defectors from his country will tell you, he was also a popular anti-Japanese guerrilla leader in the mold of Enver Hoxha, the Stalinist tyrant of Albania who led his countrymen in a successful insurgency against the Nazis. Nor is his son Kim Jong Il anything like the childish psychopath parodied in the film Team America: World Police. It’s true that Kim Jong Il was once a playboy. But he has evolved into a canny operator. Andrei Lankov, a professor of history at South Korea’s Kookmin University, in Seoul, says that under different circumstances Kim might have actually become the successful Hollywood film producer that regime propaganda claims he already is.

Kim Jong Il’s succession was aided by the link that his father had established in the North Korean mind between the Kim Family Regime and the Choson Dynasty, which ruled the Korean peninsula for 500 years, starting in the late fourteenth century. Expertly tutored by his father, Kim consolidated power and manipulated the Chinese, the Americans, and the South Koreans into subsidizing him throughout the 1990s. And Kim is hardly impulsive: he has the equivalent of think tanks studying how best to respond to potential attacks from the United States and South Korea—attacks that themselves would be reactions to crises cleverly instigated by the North Korean government in Pyongyang. “The regime constitutes an extremely rational bunch of killers,” Lankov says.

Yet for all Kim’s canniness, there is evidence that he may be losing his edge. And that may be reason to worry: totalitarian regimes close to demise are apt to get panicky and do rash things. The weaker North Korea gets, the more dangerous it becomes. The question that should be of greatest concern to the U.S. military in the Pacific—and the question that will likely determine the global balance of power in Asia for generations—is, What happens when North Korea collapses?


O n the Korean peninsula, the Cold War has never ended. On the somber, seaweed-toned border dividing the two Koreas, amid the cries of egrets and Manchurian cranes, I observed South Korean soldiers standing frozen in tae kwon do ready positions, their fists clenched and forearms tightened, staring into the faces of their North Korean counterparts. Each side picks its tallest, most intimidating soldiers for the task (they are still short by American standards).

In the immediate aftermath of the Korean War, the South raised a 328-foot flagpole; the North responded with a 525-foot pole, then put a flag on it whose dry weight is 595 pounds. The North built a two-story building in the Joint Security Area at Panmunjom; the South built a three-story one. The North then added another story to its building. “The land of one-upmanship,” is how one U.S. Army sergeant describes the DMZ, or demilitarized zone. The two sides once held a meeting in Panmunjom that went on for eleven hours. Because there was no formal agreement about when to take a bathroom break, neither side budged. The meeting became known as the “Battle of the Bladders.”

In other divided countries of the twentieth century—Vietnam, Germany, Yemen—the forces of unity ultimately triumphed. But history suggests that unification does not happen through a calibrated political process in which the interests of all sides are respected. Rather, it tends to happen through a cataclysm of events that, piles of white papers and war-gaming exercises notwithstanding, catches experts by surprise.

Given that North Korea’s army of 1.2 million soldiers has been increasingly deployed toward the South Korean border, the Korean peninsula looms as potentially the next American military nightmare. In 1980, 40 percent of North Korean combat forces were deployed south of Pyongyang near the DMZ; by 2003, more than 70 percent were. As the saying goes among American soldiers, “There is no peacetime in the ROK.” (ROK, pronounced “rock,” is militaryspeak for the Republic of Korea.) One has merely to observe the Patriot missile batteries, the reinforced concrete hangars, and the blast barriers at the U.S. Air Force bases at Osan and Kunsan, south of Seoul—which are as heavily fortified as any bases in Iraq—to be aware of this. A marine in Okinawa told me, “North Korea is not some third-rate, Middle Eastern conventional army. These brainwashed Asians—as he crudely put it—“will stand and fight.” American soldiers in Korea refer to the fighting on the peninsula between 1950 and 1953 as “the first Korean War.” The implicit assumption is that there will be a second.

This helps explain why Korea may be the most dismal place in the world for U.S. troops to be deployed—worse, in some ways, than Iraq. While I traveled on the peninsula, numerous members of the combat-arms community, both air and infantry, told me that they would rather be in Iraq or Afghanistan than in Korea, which constitutes the worst of all military worlds. Soldiers and airmen often live on a grueling wartime schedule, with constant drills, and yet they also have to put up with the official folderol that is part of all peacetime bases—the saluting and inspections that fall by the wayside in war zones, where the only thing that matters is how well you fight. The weather on the peninsula is lousy, too: the winds charging down from Siberia make the winters unbearably frigid, and the monsoons coming off the Pacific Ocean make the summers hot and humid. The dust blowing in from the Gobi Desert doesn’t help.

The threat from north of the DMZ is formidable. North Korea boasts 100,000 well-trained special-operations forces and one of the world’s largest biological and chemical arsenals. It has stockpiles of anthrax, cholera, and plague, as well as eight industrial facilities for producing chemical agents—any of which could be launched at Seoul by the army’s conventional artillery. If the governing infrastructure in Pyongyang were to unravel, the result could be widespread lawlessness (compounded by the guerrilla mentality of the Kim Family Regime’s armed forces), as well as mass migration out of and within North Korea. In short, North Korea’s potential for anarchy is equal to that of Iraq, and the potential for the deployment of weapons of mass destruction—either during or after pre-collapse fighting—is far greater.

For a harbinger of the kind of chaos that looms on the peninsula consider Albania, which was for some years the most anarchic country in post-Communist Eastern Europe, save for war-torn Yugoslavia. On a visit to Albania before the Stalinist regime there finally collapsed, I saw vicious gangs of boys as young as eight harassing people. North Korea is reportedly plagued by the same phenomenon outside of its showcase capital. That may be an indication of what lies ahead. In fact, what terrifies South Koreans more than North Korean missiles is North Korean refugees pouring south. The Chinese, for their part, have nightmare visions of millions of North Korean refugees heading north over the Yalu River into Manchuria.


Obviously, it would be reckless not to worry about North Korea’s missile and WMD technologies. In August, there were reports yet again that Kim Jong Il was preparing an underground nuclear test. And the North test fired seven missiles in July. According to U.S. data, three of the missiles were Scud-Cs, and three were No-dong-As with ranges of 300 to 1,000 miles; all were capable of carrying a nuclear warhead. (Whether North Korea has such warheads is not definitively known, but it is widely believed to have in the neighborhood of ten—and the KFR certainly has the materials and technological know-how to build them.) The third type of missile, a Taep’o-dong-2, has a range of 2,300 to 9,300 miles, which means it could conceivably hit the continental United States. Though the Taep’o-dong-2 failed after takeoff during the recent testing, it did so at the point of maximum dynamic pressure—the same point where the space shuttle Challenger exploded, and the moment when things are most likely to go wrong. So this is likely not an insoluble problem for the KFR.

The Seven Stages of Collapse

K im Jong Il’s compulsion to demonstrate his missile prowess is a sign of his weakness. Contrary to popular perception in the United States, Kim doesn’t stay up at night worrying about what the Americans might do to him; it’s not North Korea’s weakness relative to the United States that preoccupies him. Rather, if he does stay up late worrying, it’s about China. He knows the Chinese have always had a greater interest in North Korea’s geography—with its additional outlets to the sea close to Russia—than they have in the long-term survival of his regime. (Like us, even as they want the regime to survive, the Chinese have plans for the northern half of the Korean peninsula that do not include the “Dear Leader.”) One of Kim’s main goals in so aggressively displaying North Korea’s missile capacity is to compel the United States to deal directly with him, thereby making his otherwise weakening state seem stronger. And the stronger Pyongyang appears to be, the better off it is in its crucial dealings with Beijing, which are what really matter to Kim.

To Kim’s sure dismay, the American response to his recent missile tests was a shrug. President George W. Bush dispatched Christopher Hill, his assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs, to the region rather than Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. I was in South Korea during the missile firings, and there were few signs of alert on any of the U.S. bases in Korea. Pilots in several fighter squadrons were told not to drink too much on their days off, in case they had to be called in, but that was about the extent of it.

What should concentrate the minds of American strategists is not Kim’s missiles per se but rather what his decision to launch them says about the stability of his regime. Middle- and upper-middle-level U.S. officers based in South Korea and Japan are planning for a meltdown of North Korea that, within days or even hours of its occurrence, could present the world—meaning, really, the American military—with the greatest stabilization operation since the end of World War II. “It could be the mother of all humanitarian relief operations,” Army Special Forces Colonel David Maxwell told me. On one day, a semi-starving population of 23 million people would be Kim Jong Il’s responsibility; on the next, it would be the U.S. military’s, which would have to work out an arrangement with the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (among others) about how to manage the crisis.

Fortunately, the demise of North Korea is more likely to be drawn out. Robert Collins, a retired Army master sergeant and now a civilian area expert for the American military in South Korea, outlined for me seven phases of collapse in the North:

Phase One: resource depletion;

Phase Two: the failure to maintain infrastructure around the country because of resource depletion;

Phase Three: the rise of independent fiefs informally controlled by local party apparatchiks or warlords, along with widespread corruption to circumvent a failing central government;

Phase Four: the attempted suppression of these fiefs by the KFR once it feels that they have become powerful enough;

Phase Five: active resistance against the central government;

Phase Six: the fracture of the regime; and

Phase Seven: the formation of new national leadership.

North Korea probably reached Phase Four in the mid-1990s, but was saved by subsidies from China and South Korea, as well as by famine aid from the United States. It has now gone back to Phase Three.

Kim Jong Il learned a powerful lesson by watching the fall of the Ceausescu Family Regime, in Romania: Take utter and complete control of the military. And so he has. The KFR now rules through the army. There have been only individual defections of North Korean soldiers to the South. Even small, unit-level defections—which would indicate that soldiers are talking to one another and are no longer afraid of exposure by comrades—have not yet occurred. One defector from the North’s special-operations forces told me that soldiers in the ranks are afraid to discuss politics with one another.

The North Korean People’s Army is simply too big to be kept happy and well fed, so the regime concentrates on keeping the elite units comfortable. The defector I spoke to—a scout swimmer—told me that while the special-operations forces live well, the extreme poverty of conventional soldiers would make their loyalty to Kim Jong Il in a difficult war questionable. Would they fight to defend the KFR if there were an unforeseen rebellion? The Romanian example suggests that it depends on the circumstances: when workers revolted in 1987 in Brasov, the Romanian military crushed them; when ethnic Hungarians did so two years later in Timisoara, the military deserted the regime.

How to Prevent Another Iraq

Stephen Bradner, a civilian expert on the region and an adviser to the military in South Korea, has thought a lot about the tactical and operational problems an unraveling North Korean state would present. So has Colonel Maxwell, the chief of staff of U.S. Special Operations in South Korea. “The regime in Pyongyang could collapse without necessarily its army corps and brigades collapsing,” Maxwell says. “So we might have to mount a relief operation at the same time that we’d be conducting combat ops. If there is anybody in the UN who thinks it will just be a matter of feeding people, they’re smoking dope.”

Maxwell has conducted similar operations before: he was the commander of a U.S. Army Special Forces battalion that landed on Basilan Island, in the southern Philippines, in early 2002, part of a mission that combined humanitarian assistance with counterinsurgency operations against Jemaah Islamiyah and the Abu Sayyaf Group, two terrorist organizations. But the Korean peninsula presents a far vaster and more difficult challenge. “The situation in the North could become so messy and ambiguous,” Maxwell says, “that the collapse of the chain of command of the KFR could be more dangerous than the preservation of it, particularly when one considers control over WMD.”
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In order to prevent a debacle of the sort that occurred in Iraq—but with potentially deadlier consequences, because of the free-floating WMD—a successful relief operation would require making contacts with KFR generals and various factions of the former North Korean military, who would be vying for control in different regions. If the generals were not absorbed into the operational command structure of the occupying force, Maxwell says, they might form the basis of an insurgency. The Chinese, who have connections inside the North Korean military, would be best positioned to make these contacts—but the role of U.S. Army Special Forces in this effort might be substantial. Green Berets and the CIA would be among the first in, much like in Afghanistan in 2001.

Obviously, the United States could not unilaterally insert troops into a dissolved North Korea. It would likely be a four-power intervention force—the United States, China, South Korea, and Russia—officially sanctioned by the United Nations. Japan would be kept out (though all parties would gladly accept Japanese money for the endeavor).

Although Japan’s proximity to the peninsula gives it the most to fear from reunification, Korean hatred of the Japanese makes participation of Japanese troops in an intervention force unlikely. Between 1910 and 1945, Japan brutally occupied not only Korea but parts of China too, and it defeated Russia on land and at sea in the early twentieth century. Tokyo may have more reason than any other government for wanting to put boots on the ground in a collapsed North Korea, but it won’t be able to, because both China and South Korea would fight tooth and nail to prevent it from doing so.

Whereas Japan’s strategic position would be dramatically weakened by a collapsed North Korean state, China would eventually benefit. A post-KFR Korean peninsula could be more or less under Seoul’s control—and China is now South Korea’s biggest trading partner. Driving along the coast, all I saw at South Korean ports were Chinese ships.

Other factors also work in Beijing’s favor. China harbors thousands of North Korean defectors that it would send back after a collapse, in order to build a favorable political base for China’s gradual economic takeover of the Tumen River region—the northeast Asian river valley where China, Russia, and North Korea intersect, with good port facilities on the Pacific. De facto control of a future Tumen Prosperity Sphere would bolster China’s fiscal strength, helping it to do economic battle with the United States and Japan. If China’s troops could carve out a buffer zone in the part of North Korea near Manchuria—where China is now developing massive infrastructure projects, such as roads and ports—Beijing might then sanction the installation of an international coalition elsewhere in the North.

Russia’s weakness in the Far East is demonstrated by its failure to prevent the creeping demographic conquest of its eastern territories by ethnic Chinese. It will be truculent in guarding its interests on the Korean peninsula. And Russia does have a historical legacy here: North Korea was originally a Soviet creation and client state. Keeping Russian troops out of Korea would probably be more trouble for the other powers than letting some in.

Of course, South Korea would bear the brunt of the economic and social disruption in returning the peninsula to normalcy. No official will say this out loud, but South Korea—along with every other country in the region—has little interest in reunification, unless it were to happen gradually over years or decades. The best outcome would be a South Korean protectorate in much of the North, officially under an international trusteeship, that would keep the two Koreas functionally separate for a significant period of time. This would allow each country time to prepare for a unified Korean state, without the attendant chaos.

Following the Communist regime’s collapse, the early stabilization of the North could fall unofficially to the U.S. Pacific Command (PACOM) and U.S. Forces Korea (which is a semiautonomous subcommand of PACOM), also wearing blue UN helmets. But while the U.S. military would have operational responsibility, it would not have sole control. It would have to lead an unwieldy regional coalition that would need to deploy rapidly in order to stabilize the North and deliver humanitarian assistance. A successful relief operation in North Korea in the weeks following the regime’s collapse could mean the difference between anarchy and prosperity on the peninsula for years to come.

If North Korea Attacks

B ut what if rather than simply unraveling, the North launched a surprise attack on the South? This is probably less likely to happen now than it was, say, two decades ago, when Kim Il Sung commanded a stronger state and the South Korean armed forces were less mature. But Colonel Maxwell and others are preparing for this possibility.

Simply driving through Seoul, one of the world’s great and congested megacities, makes it clear that a conventional infantry attack on South Korea’s capital is something that not even a fool would contemplate. So if the North were to attack, it would likely resort instead to a low-grade demonstration of “shock and awe,” using its 13,000 artillery pieces and multiple-rocket launchers to fire more than 300,000 shells per hour on the South Korean capital, where close to half the nation’s 49 million people live. The widespread havoc this would cause would be amplified by North Korean special-operations forces, which would infiltrate the South to sabotage water plants and train and bus terminals. Meanwhile, the North Korean People’s Army would march on the city of Uijongbu, north of Seoul, from which it could cross over the Han River and bypass Seoul from the east.

But this strategy would fail. While American A-10 Warthogs, F-16 Vipers, and other aircraft would destroy enemy missile batteries and kill many North Korean troops inside South Korea, submarine-launched missiles and B-2 Spirit bombers sent from Guam and Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri would take out strategic assets inside North Korea. In the meantime, the South Korean army would quickly occupy the transport hubs, while unleashing its own divisions and special-operations forces on the marauding People’s Army. The KFR knows this; thus any such invasion would have to be the act of a regime in the latter phases of disintegration. North Korea’s lone hope would be that the hourly carnage it could produce—in the time between the first artillery barrage on Seoul and the beginning of a robust military response by South Korea and the United States—would lead the South Korean left, abetted by the United Nations and elements of the global media, to cry out for diplomacy and a negotiated settlement as an alternative to violence.

And there is no question: the violence would be horrific. Iraq and Afghanistan would look clean by comparison. A South Korea filled with North Korean troops would be (in military parlance) a “target-rich environment,” in which the good guys and the bad guys would always be close to each other. “Gnarly chaos,” is how one F-16 Viper pilot described it to me. “The ultimate fog of war.” The battlefield would be made more confusing by the serious language barrier that exists between American pilots and South Korean JTACs, or Joint Tactical Air Controllers, who would have to guide the Americans to many of their targets. A-10 and F-16 pilots in South Korea have complained to me that this weak link in the bilateral military relationship would drive up the instances of friendly-fire and collateral civilian deaths—on which the media undoubtedly would then concentrate. As part of a deal to halt the bloodbath, members of the KFR might be able to negotiate their own post-regime survival.

What Now, Lieutenant?

B ut middle and upper-middle levels of the American military worry less about an indiscriminate artillery attack on the South than about a very discriminate one. My sources feared that in the aftermath of the KFR’s missile launches in July, the Bush administration might actually have been foolish enough to react militarily—which might have been exactly what Kim Jong Il was hoping for, since it would have allowed him to achieve a primary strategic goal: splitting the alliance between South Korea and the United States. How would that happen? After the United States responded in a targeted fashion to the missile launches or some other future outrage, the North would initiate an intensive five- or ten- minute-long artillery barrage on Seoul, killing some Americans and South Koreans near Yongsan Garrison (“Dragon Mountain”), the American military’s Green Zone in the heart of the city. Then the North would simply stop. And after the shell fire halted, the proverbial question among American officers in a quandary would arise: What now, Lieutenant?

Politically speaking, we would be trumped. The South Korean left—which has been made powerful by an intrusively large American troop presence and by decades of manipulation by the North—would blame the United States for the carnage in Seoul, pointing out that it had been provoked by the Americans’ targeted strike against North Korea. The United Nations and the global media would subtly blame Washington for the crisis—and call not so subtly for peace talks. With that, the KFR would get a new lease on life, with more aid forthcoming from the international community to keep it afloat.
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Which is why some of the military and civilian experts I spoke with argue for economic warfare against the North. Stop helping the regime with humanitarian aid, they say. The North Korean population has been on the brink of starvation for decades. The forests are denuded. People are eating tree bark. Stop prolonging the agony. Help the KFR collapse.

Of course, one problem with this strategy is that it could end up making North Korea’s direst military options more likely; as noted, regimes like this one, in the latter stages of collapse, are apt to behave irresponsibly, possibly resorting to WMD. Another problem is that we can’t do much to squeeze the North Koreans economically; it’s China, not the United States, that is really keeping the regime alive. The Chinese are already in the process of gaining operational control over anything in North Korea that has strategic economic and military value: mines, railways, and so on. Thus, any soft landing for the KFR would more likely be orchestrated by Beijing than by Washington, even though the Chinese might not mind saddling the Americans with the short-term military responsibility of stabilizing a collapsed North Korea.

After Reunification

I f the peninsula could be stabilized after the fall of the KFR, this Greater Korea would have an instant, undisputed enemy: Japan. Any Korean politician would be able to stand up in parliament and get political mileage out of an anti-Japanese tirade. The Japanese know this, and it’s helping fuel their remilitarization. (The Japanese navy, in particular, has been emphasizing the latest diesel submarines and Aegis destroyers.) In July, there was a saber-rattling contest between Tokyo and Seoul over disputed islets that South Koreans call Tokdo and the Japanese Takeshima, in what the Koreans refer to as the East Sea and the Japanese the Sea of Japan. Harsh words were exchanged after South Korea sent a survey ship to the area. The United States has a history of underestimating historical-ethnic disputes: in the 1980s, it paid insufficient attention to ethnic tensions in Yugoslavia; more recently, it mistakenly downplayed Sunni-Shiite tensions in Iraq. It should not make the same mistake in Asia.

Here it is useful to review Korean history. In the medieval era, the Koreans fought wars against Chinese dynasties like the Sui and the Tang. But later on, following the rise to power of Korea’s own Choson Dynasty, in 1392, Japan gradually caught up with China as Korea’s principal adversary. There was a brutal Japanese violation of the peninsula at the end of the sixteenth century, culminating in an orgy of rape and murder, and a savage occupation at the beginning of the twentieth, which ended only with the Soviet and American conquests. (The Japanese effect on the peninsula has not been all negative: South Koreans may have trouble admitting it, but Japanese colonialism in the early twentieth century nearly doubled the life expectancy of the average Korean.)

Reunification would provide at least one benefit to Japan. As Park Syung Je, an analyst at the Asia Strategy Institute in Seoul, explained to me, a unified Greater Korea might serve to balance against an even more significant threat to Japan: a rising China. But this Greater Korea would still be a linchpin of China’s twenty-first-century Asian economic-prosperity sphere, a more benign version of Imperial Japan’s Co- Prosperity Sphere of the 1940s. America could be pushed to the margins. Although Korean businessmen would resist economic domination by China, lingering anti-Americanism in South Korea might outweigh that resistance—especially once the generation that still remembers the sacrifices of American servicemen during the 1950s disappears entirely. America’s large troop presence will have granted Korea a free society, just as a similar American presence helped to make Germany a free society. But younger generations of South Koreans may remember U.S. troops only negatively—and what is more indelibly inscribed in the Korean national memory is America’s support for the Japanese occupation of Korea following the Russo-Japanese War of 1904 and 1905. (This was in exchange for Imperial Japan’s support of America’s occupation of the Philippines a few years earlier.)

Greater Korea’s troubled relationship with China may ultimately be determined by what America does, and specifically by the degree to which the United States can get Japan to recognize its war guilt. If Washington continues to maintain a military alliance with Tokyo without Japan’s publicly coming to terms with its past, Greater Korea will move psychologically toward China. President Bush’s recent love fest with Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi at Graceland may have played well in the United States, but it was seen as an insult in South Korea because of Koizumi’s earlier visit to the Yasukuni Shrine, which honors the Japanese war dead—including war criminals. If the United States continues to treat Japan as a golden stepchild, then China and its implicit ally, Greater Korea, will have a tense relationship with Japan and its implicit allies, the United States and India. But because of its own manifold business interests in China, America could only balance against China very delicately.

China Versus America

W ith so many complex and subtle interests to weigh here, what should the American strategy be over the long term? South Korean army Colonel Chung Kyung Yung, a professor at Seoul’s National Defense University, says that after the KFR collapses and the North is stabilized, the wisest thing for the United States to do would be to keep 10,000 troops or so on the peninsula. Such a contingent, he told me, would serve as a statement that the United States is not abandoning Korea to a militarily resurgent Japan. The best way to stabilize Asia, Chung emphasizes, would be to prevent Greater Korea—which would be fragile in the period after the North’s collapse—from becoming a source of contention between China and Japan. Peter Beck, the director of the International Crisis Group’s North East Asia Project, agrees. “Because the United States is the furthest away of all these powers,” he told me, “it should be perceived as the least dangerous—the one power without territorial ambitions.”

Unfortunately, South Korean politics might make it more difficult to keep American troops on the peninsula long term. Yes, it’s true that of the few prominent statues of foreigners in the country, two are of Americans (General Douglas MacArthur and General James Van Fleet, the father of the South Korean armed forces). And it is also true that, because of late-nineteenth-century missionary activity, American-style Protestantism is practically the dominant religion in South Korea. (If North Korea collapses, expect Christian evangelism to quickly replace the Communist regime’s Juche ethos of self-reliance: Pyongyang was once the “Jerusalem of Asia” for missionaries.) And yet despite all this, the South Koreans have largely convinced themselves that they need to be as worried about the Americans as they are about the Chinese—just as they have convinced themselves that they should be as afraid of the Japanese as they are of the North Koreans. The fact is that South Koreans may not want any American troops in their country.

Already the American air and ground troops who would defend the South if the KFR were to attack are facing increasing restrictions on their training, because of South Korean political pressures. The A-10 squadron that would be flying nonstop sorties near the DMZ in the event of a war had to train in Thailand this past winter, because of limitations Seoul placed on its flight patterns. This is all part of yet another frustration that U.S. troops in South Korea must endure: having to be on a war footing in order to defend a government that wants to be defended but publicly pretends otherwise.

The truth is, many South Koreans have an interest in the perpetuation of the Kim Family Regime, or something like it, since the KFR’s demise would usher in a period of economic sacrifice that nobody in South Korea is prepared for. A long-standing commitment by the American military has allowed the country to evolve into a materialistic society. Few South Koreans have any interest in the disruption the collapse of the KFR would produce.

Meanwhile, China’s infrastructure investments are already laying the groundwork for a Tibet-like buffer state in much of North Korea, to be ruled indirectly through Beijing’s Korean cronies once the KFR unravels. This buffer state will be less oppressive than the morbid, crushing tyranny it will replace. So from the point of view of the average South Korean, the Chinese look to be offering a better deal than the Americans, whose plan for a free and democratic unified peninsula would require South Korean taxpayers to pay much of the cost. The more that Washington thinks narrowly in terms of a democratic Korean peninsula, the more Beijing has the potential to lock the United States out of it. For there is a yawning distance between the Stalinist KFR tyranny and a stable, Western-style democracy: in between these extremes lie several categories of mixed regimes and benign dictatorships, any of which might offer the North Koreans far more stability as a transition mechanism than anything the United States might be able to provide. No one should forget that South Korea’s prosperity and state cohesion were achieved not under a purely democratic government but under Park Chung Hee’s benign dictatorship of the 1960s and ’70s. Furthermore, North Koreans, who were never ruled by the British, have even less historical experience with democracy than Iraqis. Ultimately, victory on the Korean peninsula will go to the side with the most indirect and nuanced strategy.

The long-term success of America’s basic policy on the peninsula hinges on the willingness of South Koreans to make a significant sacrifice, at some point, for the sake of freedom in the North. But sacrifice is not a word that voters in free and prosperous societies tend to like. If voters in Western-style democracies are good at anything, it’s rationalizing their own selfishness—and it may turn out that the authoritarian Chinese understand the voters of South Korea’s free and democratic society better than we do. If that’s the case, there may never actually be a Greater Korea in the way that we imagine it. Rather, the North’s demise will be carefully managed by Beijing in such a way that the country will go from being a rogue nation to a de facto satellite of the Middle Kingdom—but one with sufficient contact with the South that the Korean yearning for a measure of reunification will be satisfied.

Keep in mind that Asia—largely because it is so economically dynamic—is politically and militarily volatile. Its alliance structures are not nearly as developed as those in Europe, which has NATO and the European Union. Conflicting nationalisms are expressed in Asia through more than just soccer games. Thus, the question of whether it’s to be the American or the Chinese vision of North Korea’s future that gets realized may hinge on political-military decisions made in the midst of an opaque and confusing crisis.

North Korea and the Future of Asia

B efore I left Seoul, I met with a local military legend. Retired General Paik Sun Yup, now eighty-six years old, was the 1st Infantry Division commander during the Korean War and worked hand in hand with General MacArthur. When we spoke, Paik insisted that crisis-driven political-military decisions here will ultimately determine the balance of power throughout Asia, the most important region for the world’s economy. “This peninsula is the pivot,” he said.

When I reflected on Paik’s words later, it occurred to me that while the United States is in its fourth year of a war in Iraq, it has been on a war footing in Korea for fifty-six years now. More than ten times as many Americans have been killed on the Korean peninsula as in Mesopotamia. Most Americans hope and expect that we will withdraw from Iraq within a few years—yet we still have 32,000 troops in South Korea, more than half a century after the armistice. Korea provides a sense of America’s daunting, imperial-like burdens.

But South Korea also provides a lesson in what can be accomplished with patience and dogged persistence. The drive from the airport at Inchon to downtown Seoul goes through the heart of a former urban war zone. South Korea’s capital was taken and retaken four times in some of the most intense fighting of the Korean War. Korean men and women who lived through that time will always be grateful for what retired U.S. Army Colonel Robert Killebrew has called American “stick-to-itiveness,” without which we would have little hope of remaining a great power.

In the heart of Seoul lies Yongsan Garrison, a leafy, fortified Little America, guarded and surrounded by high walls. Inside these 630 acres, which closely resemble the Panama Canal Zone before the Americans gave it up, are 8,000 American military and diplomatic personnel in manicured suburban homes surrounded by neatly clipped hedges and backyard barbecue grills. I drove by a high school, baseball and football fields, a driving range, a hospital, a massive commissary, a bowling alley, and restaurants. U.S. Forces Korea and its attendant bureaucracies are located in redbrick buildings that the Americans inherited in 1945 from the Japanese occupiers. Korea is so substantial a military commitment for us that it merits its own, semiautonomous subcommand of PACOM—just as Iraq, unofficially anyway, merits its own four-star subcommand of CENTCOM.

The United States hopes to complete a troop drawdown in South Korea in 2008. Having moved into Yongsan Garrison when Korea’s future seemed highly uncertain, American troops plan to give up this prime downtown real estate and relocate to Camp Humphreys, in Pyongtaek, thirty miles to the south. The number of ground troops will drop to 25,000, and will essentially comprise a skeleton of logistical support shops, which would be able to acquire muscles and tendons in the form of a large invasion force in the event of a war or a regime collapse that necessitated a military intervention.

Patience and dogged persistence are heroic attributes. But while military units can be expected to be heroic, one should not expect a home front to be forever so. And while in the fullness of time patience and dogged persistence can breed success, it is the kind of success that does not necessarily reward the victor but, rather, the player best able to take advantage of the new situation. It is far too early to tell who ultimately will benefit from a stable and prosperous Mesopotamia, if one should ever emerge. But in the case of Korea, it looks like it will be the Chinese.
 
As for whether Seoul could be wiped out, yes. Seoul got conquered twice during the Korean War and a lot of people killed in the process.

Let's not forget- that war never officially ended. There is merely a ceasefire based on a DMZ in which two sides are facing each other with guns.

In the meantime South Korea gets stronger and North Korea gets weaker- why? Seoul's economy is much stronger than the North.

This also means that South Korea and Japan have a greater capacity to create not only nuclear weapons, but nuclear weapons capable of a second-strike. North Korea is unlikely to develop that capacity- it can't afford it. But Seoul and Japan might, which means arms race in Asia with China.


Remember- nuclear weapons are essentially good for destroying people and cities. Armies, tank clusters, military targets, other nukes, yes. But nukes were created to do three things-

(1) Terrorize through mass destruction. In otherwords nukes are strategic weapons meant for coercive diplomacy.

That said, against a non-nuclear power (like Japan or South Korea) a nuclear weapon is damned scary as there is no way to deter it.

So if there is a reason why those countries don't develop nukes its because they rely on the US to protect them. That means the US has to maintain a credible capacity to use nuclear weapons for coercive diplomacy.

Both the doctrines of deterrence and compellence rely, in this case, on the ability to coerce.

Deterrrence- you stop someone from doing what you don't want them to do by creating a sufficient probability that you will punish them and your punishment outweighs the gains they might get.

Up until a few days ago the US policy in South Korea was one of deterrence. Holy shit, it actually worked.

The other strategy, compellence, is harder. Here you are telling the other side that they must do something, and if they don't you will hurt them so bad that they will wish they had acted. Furthermore you will continue to hurt them until they do act.

What I have suggested above is a basic strategy of compellence.

No doubt this is very difficult and risky. But it has worked in the past.

For example during the Vietnam War the North Vietnamese left the negotiating tables to end the war. To coerce them to return, Nixon began the Christmas bombings - an escalation of conflict.

The other reason for nuclear weapons?

(2) Reduce the cost of having a military. As strange as it may seem, having an ICBM costs less than the standard costs of keeping men in the field. ICBMs = a cheap way to flatten your enemy. Cheap meaing financially cheap, not politically.

Ok, so what does this all mean?

Admittedly Bush is a dickhead. I dispute with Kharn the ability of the US to fight another conventional war. It would be difficult, but not impossible should the US be willing to pay the costs.

But by going nuclear, this is no longer a conventional issue (war fighting). Rather it is a strategic one- its about political ambitions.

The game is not about the ability to inflict damage, but the ability to terrorize and coerce your enemy to do something.

But there this leads to the third reason for nukes-

(3) Insurance. Having nukes insures that no one will screw with you, but also insures that if you go to war, things will get very nasty, very fast. Against a non-nuclear state, having nukes not only offers you insurance but diplomatic leverage.

Against another nuclear armed nation, you need to have a second strike ability or nukes are actually problematic.

Which comes back to the main point of the argument I have made above.

North Korea has nukes and it has missiles, but so far its ability to deliver nukes onto a target is uncertain. We don't know if they can hit anything with one of their missiles and its possible to prevent them from delivering a nuke by air with sufficent air defence.

North Korea lacks second-strike ability. This is also true of India and Pakistan which makes their situation more tenuous.

Failing to have second strike leads to the "use them or lose them" problem. If you don't deliver the weapon to your target fast, the opposition might be able to destroy your target first. This leads to higher likelihood of preemptive first strikes and a rush to war.

That's were we are in North Korea right now. This is also the problem with Pakistan and India- should things heat up between both and war become likely, both sides will be aware of the risk of losing their strategic edge, and thus more likely to use them.

This didn't happen during the Cold War because both the Russians and the US had a triad and enough nukes that should either receive a first strike that destroyed their cities, society, political systems, militaries- each side could still launch a punitive second strike against the other assuring them that both would be destroyed. That's MAD- mutually assured destruction.

The game here is about taking away North Korea's nuclear capacity.

Given the stakes, it is unlikely that North Korea will give that up unless the Kim regime is at stake from internal groups- probably the military. So you need sanctions to motivate an internal group to challenge the regime. Good luck with that. It hasn't happened yet, and I doubt it will.

So you can try to change the regime from outside.

That can be done two ways-

(1) Threaten North Korea with a credible threat of certain doom should they not disarm.

(2) Motivate North Korea's allies to force North Korea's hand. At present there seems little reason for either China or Russia to do much. They have little reason too take such a hard stand either due to their own disinterest or their gain.

But in either case you have to be willing to play hardball. This is necessary to convey-

(1) Seriousness- the US sees this threat as an existential one. The US means what it says = the probability of violence is high.

(2) Credible response- the US is serious in promising punishment and that punishment will be devestating.

At present the US policy has been-
(A) Rely on regional actors. We also did that in Afghanistan to control the Taliban and get them to give up Osama. Note how well that worked out.
(B) Ignore North Korea- which means that they can still pursue their weapons programs.
(C) Coddle and reassure them- Which would be fine if all North Korea wanted was nuclear insurance.

But if that were the case than North Korea won't be tunnelling under the DMZ, landing commandos on South Korea's shore, assassinating South Korean leaders or a variety of other nasty deeds.

North Korea is in bad shape. Its in such bad shape its relying on some rather criminal activities to sustain itself. That's a mistatement. It's not sustaining itself, but the ruling regime- at the expense of everyone else in the country. It can manage that trick because it is the last Cold War Stalinist state with a personality cult.

So perhaps what Kim wants is to use his nukes so he can maintain his criminal enterprises.

Or perhaps he's using it to convince the US to finally leave South Korea and maybe Japan. Pat Buchanan- the happy Republican isolationist- is fine with that.

And once the US leaves South Korea, than Seoul becomes a victim of nuclear blackmail?

And if South Korea or Tokyo refuse to play, then what? Perhaps South Korea and Tokyo might build their own nukes?

Yes, it is possible to punish North Korea with sanctions. That hasn't worked for Iran, for Iraq and for a number of other cases.

Before looking to the easy answer of sanctions, I think it wise to figure out how and why those sanctions might work. Right now it seems that the call for sanctions is seen as a way to avoid the rather difficult answer.

The real answer is that if you want to compel North Korea to give up the bombs, you have to be willing to communicate a credible and real existential threat to them before they have the capacity to threaten your existence.

North Korea then can decide whether to take its chances or not. A nice big bribe might help- that's also worked before.

If North Korea doesn't decide to play along, than perhaps China and Russia might be more motivated to actually do something constructive for a change.

And if they don't?

Then start hurting North Korea. Because it's better to start hurting them now before they can nuke you, than later when they can.

Ok, morally some of you will say, "this is terrorism! What about all those civilian deaths? How can this be morally justifiable?"

Idealistically and normatively- you're right. This is terrorism. Ideally and normatively, its reprehensible and terrifying.

But that's nuclear strategy- its not for the soft hearted. North Korea has decided to play this game. Deterrence during the cold war was based on what was called "the balance of terror."

You can't play pussy on this and be taken seriously. Sanctions is playing pussy. You've got to play hard and serious and deadly. Otherwise North Korea won't take you seriously and you will not be able to coerce them without using violence.
 
Sanctions is playing pussy.
China has a lot more to loose with a collapse of the economy of South Korea and Japan that would happen as a result of nuclear war then the fall of the KFR. Total/near-total economic sanctions on North Korea by China would result in North Korea not being able to feed itself. They are the third largest food donater in the world as it is (with around 50% of it going to NK).

The only problem with this is that I have no idea what will happen when Pyongyang and the military are no longer able to feed themselves.
 
John Uskglass said:
Total/near-total economic sanctions on North Korea by China
This is quite easy to get, by the USA, by threatening to refusing to bay the the US national debt to China, and buying the exess food that would be delivered to NK, etc.

John Uskglass said:
The only problem with this is that I have no idea what will happen when Pyongyang and the military are no longer able to feed themselves.
Someone in the region will become a man, and kills his so called God, at with point the US can take control of the situation, by removing the weapons of mass-destruction etc. After which they can remove themselves from the whole region. Some might argue that this is a clear backstab on morality, but for me it is what the morality stand for, "the enbetterment of humanity", nah, just better for me and those that are better than I.
 
Goddammit, John, are you doing this to annoy me? There's a link to the article you somehow felt the need to quote in full in a post by me in this thread a few days before.

Pay. Attention.
 
That's your big article? Robert Kaplan- the guy who gave us "the Coming Anarchy?" The same guy who is so alarmist about China as the next big baddie?

If Thomas Friedman is a journalist commentator that argues an idealist liberal view, and if Seymour Hersh is a more cynical journalist that examines political conspiracies and military opaqueness, Kaplan's career is based on being an alarmist prognosticator of an international future- often more than a bit unbalanced and favoring alarm rather than insight.

I read through the article (from your link not from John's posting) just a few minutes ago mostly because I didn't have time to read it earlier.

Kaplan builds on a lot of assumptions.

I would agree that China would want to keep its fingers in North Korea. I would also agree that China would like North Korea to play its historical role as a buffer nation or satellite if it could. A denuclearized North Korea would be in everyone's best interest. I also agree with him that a nuclear armed North Korea would prompt South Korea and Japan to rearm.

This last result is a very bad thing. Arms racing with nuclear weapons- as the US and USSR learned- is an easy problem to get into and a difficult problem to escape.

I am less convinced that China owns the future. Nor am I necessarily convinced that the fall of Kim will lead, immediately, to state collapse although feeding the army does matter.

Some comparisons of regime transition and collapse-

Is North Korea more like Zaire or more like East Germany?

Zaire you have a big damn country, crap for infrastructure, divided ethnicities, a history of internal conflict among its members. In that case you have state collapse- over a period of nearly 30 years. State collapse allowed one strong party (largely subsidized by Rwanda) to quickly seize power and then, when the new figure head leader turned on external allies, it turned into a civil war. This might be where Kaplan gets his ideas. Kaplan, who gained his fame looking at cases of state collapse in Africa, looked at Zaire, Liberia and Sierra Leone.

But key issues there - (1) A very weak military, (2) a highly withered state, (3) little control over local strongmen.

North Korea you still have a very strong military, with clear political lies of authority (or so its eems). A fairly institutionalized state (a one-party state that controls everything apparently), and I think pretty decent control over local strongmen.

I doubt North Korea is like Romania either. Afterall Romania didn't have a West Romania that was keen on reunification.

Is it more like East Germany?
Like East Germany, North Korea is a Cold War creation that lived based on its ties to its bigger allies and its existence as a "frontline" state against the west. Like East Germany it depended on its allies for its survival and for its political structure. Like East Germany, the people there suffered compared to the other side. Like East Germany, one of the hopes of both sides of that Cold War creation was reunification. Unlike East Germany, North Korea has a crap economy.

Kaplan's argument hinges on an assumption- that the South Koreans will be unwilling to bite the bullet and pay for reunification because they are too selfish to pay for it.

I know a few Koreans. They are a pretty tight people. A lot of Koreans have spent a lot of time looking over the border and wondering when families might be reunited. Not unlike between Taiwan and China, there is a lot of desire on both sides to make what was divided whole again.

Kaplan is right to assume that you could have "lesser evil" of a 'benign dictator" or some form of oligarchy. That's possible. But likely? If China takes over North Korea it would have to rely on what's left of the North Korea's political institutions. That would probably lead to more of the same kinds of problems.

But then what?

Would China be able to export its people in North Korea and make it into the satellite buffer that is Tibet? I doubt the North Koreans or the South Koreans would like that very much.

This is not Tibet. Tibet is tragic because its too far away, too isolated and no one really cares. It is a whole in the map that was waiting for China to fill.

(By the way, S, this does not legitimize China's Tibet policy any more than it legitimizes the US wiping out indigenous Indians to take the Western states).

Would the South Koreans be willing to pay the price for reunification? Probably.

Would Japan be willing to help subsidize the costs of that reunification? Yes. Japan has a lot of capital it can spend on this, and the lesson of England in the late 19th Century is that you don't have to invade a country with men to have imperial benefits. England got away with a lot of neo-imperialism by exporting capital.

Would China have a hand in it? Yes. How much a hand? Unsure. Maybe a lot, maybe a little.

Would reunification be peaceful? Maybe.

It is possible that North Korea become a nightmare scenario, divided among competing warlords fighting each other for control. It is possible that an external actor intervene in order to manage the distribution of humanitarian aid and suppress local warlords.

It is a possibility but not a certainty. It is also possible that given the crisis of regime transition should the Kim regime be removed (and how might they be removed?) a replacement regime might take its place that is based on consensus among a coalition of military leaders that wish to avoid the costs of civil war.

This is especially true if those who are likely to engage in that war see that the costs of war outweigh potential benefits (because any state they inherit would be a shell of what North Korea is - a wreck).

And yes, such conflicts have been avoided in the past. Case in point- South Africa.

One of the pivotal points of disagreement between Apartheid South Africa and the ANC was the ANC's commitment to nationalization of White South African assets. It was impossible for the South African's to agree to this as it meant economic ruin (as seen elsewhere among white settler countries). Efforts were made to show to the ANC that nationalization was a policy that would lead to disaster and the ANC commmitted itself to protect White property. That was a critical step in a peaceful transition and helped move negotiations forward.

There have been other peaceful transitions as well. East Germany for instance.

I will concede to Kaplan his point that a regime in domestic trouble is likely to do something stupid internationally to try to shore up its domestic support.

Argentina invaded the Falklands in order to cultivate nationalism and get the attention of the British (which had been dismissing Argentine demands). Had Argentina waited a year, Britian would not have been able to send a fleet to reclaim the islands as that fleet was budgetted to be decommissioned. The Argentine decision led to disaster.

There are other cases as well- Arguably Egypt's wars with Israel helped allow the Egyptian regimes stay in power.

A China "get tough on Taiwan" policy could help keep Chinese nationalism high, and thus support for the Chinese Communist Party.

Iran might be doing the same with its nuclear policy.

How will North Korea go? How will it collapse? I don't think anyone, least of all Kaplan, has the crystal ball to forecast that with certainty. But that's a seperate policy question.


But the question is this- what should we do about North Korea's nuke?

Remmeber the costs-
We should learn a few lessons here from India.

For years we believed India had the bomb. IN order to shore up national support the BJP decided to test a bomb. Feeling compelled to answer that show of force with a displace of its own. That had two results.

First it made the India-Pakistan situation more dicey. Pakistan, which had its ass kicked by India in multiple wars, has been engaged in a war of attrition by supporting muslim insurgents in Kashmir (who were ironically trained in Afghani camps).

Pakistan also wanted to have a safe Sunni state to its North- Afghanistan- so it supported the Taliban.

Taliban- being a bunch of Sunni whackos, wanted to create an empire in Central Asia and to go to war with Iran.

(When asked by the CIA about whether the Taliban were willing to sell their stinger missiles back to the CIA for a nice pay off, the Taliban replied, "Oh no, we're keeping these missiles for Iran").

So what does Iran do? Iran begins to support Shiites and anti-Taliban groups in Afghanistan and begins developing its own nuclear capacity. If Iran is building a bomb- is it for the US or for Pakistan.

Which leads to another problem- if Iran gets the bomb... Will Israel make a preventative strike? Will Saudi Arabia build its own bomb?

This is how one set of dickheads (Kim or the BJP) can set in motion a lot of arms racing based on insecurity which is based on security dilemmas.

Now some might argue, and I think its a good argument, that North Korea having a nuclear weapon doesn't make much difference. They have had biological and chemical weapons before.

But then if North Korea didn't think a nuclear weapon would make a difference, why bother making one at all?

Return to the post above-
Nuclear weapons are primarily made for destroying people in large numbers- they are a strategic asset for coercive diplomacy.

They are used for-
(1) Insurance- to stay in power. Kim's problem though, if Kaplan is correct, is controlling local strongmen, not outside forces.

(2) Keep your army cheap- because nukes are cheaper than tank divisions. But it is unlikely that Kim could use his nukes against his army should he decide to cut military spending or demobilize.

(3) Terrorize by threatening mass destruction- and thus get deterrence or compellence.

Kim doesn't need more deterrence- he already has that. The DMZ has been stable for nearly 50 years.

What about compellence?
Day after testing- Kim's people say- If you threaten sanctions we will attack you with a nuclear tipped missile! That's compellence.

(Frankly, I would prefer if he tested more of his nukes- just fewer in his arsenal).

But what's next?
Why does this asshole get to have the initiative here?

But just because he's being a prick doesn't mean you allow yourself to play pussy. The proper response is to slap him down and put him in his place.

If you want to stop this, than you have to act sooner than later. When you marry a nuke with a viable delivery vehicle, than you really have to worry.

ALternatively, you can wait and see how this turns out.

Either way, you will have to pay for the costs of that decision.
 
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