Notch another one up for RA

[Brother None]

Restricted Area has received yet another positive preview. What may interest those that played the demo, this bit previews the demo and full version seperately and has a few things to say on the differences:<blockquote>During the original preview only one of the characters was available for play, now I was able to get my hands on three more characters. When you are picking your character you can see a projected difficulty depending on which character you pick. Apparently it’s hard to be a woman, the two hardest characters are the female characters. Each character has their own skill sets and abilities, and their own back-story. During the opening movie you see your character and hear them telling you their story of where they came from and what drives them. In old school RPG terms you can think of the four characters I had in front of me as a warrior, thief, wizard and ninja. One of the guys likes the weapons and making a big bang, one of the women can hack computers and setup traps and use a probe, the other female uses psychic skills for attack and defense, then the last guy uses his speed to close in and hack enemies to pieces with swords and claws.

There was also an added gameplay aspect in the new preview. I’m not sure what it’s called, so I’m just going to call it the Techno-world. When you find terminals while you are out on your missions, you can tap into them and search around in an artificial world where you can download secret data. I’m not sure what this does for you, but once I find out I will let you know, it will probably give you more cash, secret items, side quests, something fun.</blockquote>Link: RA preview and screenshots on NLG

Spotted on Blue's News

 

[helmutcole]

Hi. First post. Long time listener, first time caller.

Has anyone here played the Shadowrun console games -- from early 90's, two different versions on Sega and Super Nintendo derived from the pen-and-paper RPG? Restricted Area looks to be quite reminiscent of those games, which is not a bad thing 'cause I enjoyed the SR games a lot.

Similarities I picked up on:

(1) From review: "In old school RPG terms you can think of the four characters I had in front of me as a warrior, thief, wizard and ninja." Throw a "decker" character in there, and you have an overglorified SR game.

(2) The "cyberware" references in the screenshots could have been taken directly out of the SR universe. It's true also that SR is not the only universe to carry this concept, however.

Anybody else pick up on similarities? Perhaps in another post I missed?

 

[Claw]

Throw a "decker" character in there, and you have an overglorified SR game.

I think the thief is the decker. Assuming the decker is what I think it is: A console cowboy, a deck jockey. An overglorified hacker. Why did you write overglorified, btw?

(2) The "cyberware" references in the screenshots could have been taken directly out of the SR universe. It's true also that SR is not the only universe to carry this concept, however.

Cyberware tends to look similar in all that is cyberpunk. I don't know what similarities you are referring to, it all looks pretty generic to me.

 

[helmutcole]

I think the thief is the decker... Why did you write overglorified, btw?

By "overglorified" I meant that there were more character-type choices than in the SR console games. If the theif is the hacker, maybe not so glorified after all.

Cyberware tends to look similar in all that is cyberpunk. I don't know what similarities you are referring to, it all looks pretty generic to me.

Yeah, cyberware is pretty typical. Generic? Maybe... I don't have enough games under my belt to know better. In terms of other similarities, I was wondering whether a player would be able to "jack in" to networks and interact within them as in the Shadow Run universe. The RA write-up seemed to alude to that. Maybe I'm reading into things though.

Restricted Area looks like it may be worth playing, despite all the "Diablo-clone" references that are being thrown around the Fallout boards.

 

[Claw]

"overglorified" I meant that there were more character-type choices than in the SR console games.

I don't see the connection.

Yeah, cyberware is pretty typical. Generic? Maybe...

It is in RA. In fact, it's pretty bad. The limbs main if not only purpose seems to be to boost the character's stats through somewhat random modifies. An artificial heart may boost health or regeneration, but so may a leg. Oh well.

In terms of other similarities, I was wondering whether a player would be able to "jack in" to networks and interact within them as in the Shadow Run universe.

It was pretty specifically stated somewhere that yes, there is a representation of cyberspace. It's not in the demo unfortunately.

Restricted Area looks like it may be worth playing, despite all the "Diablo-clone" references that are being thrown around the Fallout boards.

It's probably ok if you can live with the fact that the implants use modifiers very much like magical items in Diablo.

 

[Matt Helm]

Did you ever lose the pilot? I was playing this evening and for the first time I went back to the jet and the pilot was missing.

edit: I just tested it and the only money the pilot gets a share of is the mission payment and cash found in the field. He does not get a share of the money made on selling off loot, which is the majority of the money earned. I don't see a problem.

I think Diablo-clone is a fair description of RA, which is not a bad thing. It just means that the demo makes the game looks like a fast paced action RPG.

 

[Nocturne]

Did you ever lose the pilot? I was playing this evening and for the first time I went back to the jet and the pilot was missing.

edit: I just tested it and the only money the pilot gets a share of is the mission payment and cash found in the field. He does not get a share of the money made on selling off loot, which is the majority of the money earned. I don't see a problem.

I think Diablo-clone is a fair description of RA, which is not a bad thing. It just means that the demo makes the game looks like a fast paced action RPG.

Diablo a fast paced RPG ? Where is the Role playing ?

 

[Matt Helm]

I'm using RPG in the same sense the market does, let's not get into silly semantics.

 

[Claw]

I just tested it and the only money the pilot gets a share of is the mission payment and cash found in the field. He does not get a share of the money made on selling off loot, which is the majority of the money earned. I don't see a problem.

That is the problem. I am curious, though: Your posts sounds like a reply, but I can't seem to find anything you are replying to in this thread or in the preview!?

Anyway, it's just lame. Reducing the cash on ALL your missions by a percentage is meaningless, the devs have to balance that anyway, so they could just make the pilot work for free and adjust the money earned directly. What, style? Bah. It's unbelieveable that the pilot would work for that pittance, quite the opposite would seem likely. That's why I said in the other thread, he should demand an advance fee PLUS the percentage of your profit, forcing you to loan money right at the beginning of the game.

Personally, I feel vaguely annoyed by the game, for I keep seeing it for what it could have been, not what it is. The RPG elements are superficial, the implementation of implants cheap, the only things that intrigued me where the company bonus (although unconvincing, I found it compelling to collect brand-specific gear and see my reflexes go up quite nicely after most of my body belonged to Inventure.

It should have been a deeper RPG and less superficial in everything it does. More NPC interaction, a freer world and a less Diablo-like implementation of the implants with properly justified modifiers rather than a +7 Reflex Cyber Arm. Of course you'd need the doc to attach it, but I imagine he'd accept your old arm as partial payment.


Also, the collision detection is really bad in places. And why the heck doesn't the pilot let you store things while on the field?

 

[Murdoch]

I'm using RPG in the same sense the market does, let's not get into silly semantics.

hmm, obviously you haven't hung around here very long. Semantics are important on NMA.

And unless my WoW starts getting boring (which it hasn't after four weeks, impressively) this game will be on my pick up from the EB bargain bin list. If I wanna hack and slash I'll do Doom, the original.

 

[Roshambo]

I'm using RPG in the same sense the market does, let's not get into silly semantics.

Then you're nothing but a consumer whore, then. Sorry, we do prefer to use the real distinctions of what constitutes an RPG in terms of design, i.e. not what some marketing chimp thinks will make a game sell, by adding in stats and calling it a CRPG. But if design isn't important to you, then by all means, keep on perpetuating the erosion of the market.

Care to post another straw man argument, or are you finished already?

 

[Matt Helm]

Roshambo, why do you keep using the term "straw man argument" incorrectly? Did you read it in a book and think it sounded cool?

Let me enlighten you as to the real definition:

"As a rhetorical term, "straw man" describes a point of view that was created in order to be easily defeated in argument; the creator of a "straw man" argument does not accurately reflect the best arguments of his or her opponents, but instead sidesteps or mischaracterizes them so as to make the opposing view appear weak or ridiculous"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

All I am trying to do is discuss a game that I now perceive is the target of unreasonable hostility here from both forum members and moderators. My sin is clearly having the temerity to disagree with what is obviously the party line here at NMA (this is often the case is isolated low participation forums that don't support a large enough population to foster more than one point of view). I'm sorry that I found the game amusing and am not prepared to nitpick it into oblivion.

Then you're nothing but a consumer whore

Gosh, after a rebuke like that I will have to go shoot myself. How will I ever go on with my life?

But if design isn't important to you, then by all means, keep on perpetuating the erosion of the market.

Perhaps video games are not as central to my life as they are to yours, I just play them for fun and I also have the capacity to recognize when a game is just for frivolous fun mutant blasting and is not intended to reveal truths about reality.

Your only participation in any thread about RA seems to be harassing people who don't agree with you that the game is shit. Well, it's a free country, whatever makes you happy. Does it really upset you that much to see people having a dialogue about a game you don't like?

Your posts sounds like a reply, but I can't seem to find anything you are replying to in this thread or in the preview!?

Claw, weren't you the one complaining about the money split? Maybe it was in another thread. The reason I don't see a problem with the amount he is paid being a "pittance" because the player character has to accept the mission fee which is also a pittance (or you might as well not install the game). The pilot is just flying me out there, he isn't going down into the bunker so he doesn't get a share of what I loot out of there.

It should have been a deeper RPG and less superficial in everything it does.

Why should it have been that? Did you put up the investment money to make the game? No, you didn't. As much as I want a real Fallout 3 that is as good or better than the originals, I am not going around judging other games by what they are not. Judging by the demo, it is pretty clear that the developers wanted to make an action game. If you don't like action games then say "I don't like action games" and move on with your life.

If I wanna hack and slash I'll do Doom, the original

Murdoch, that is a valid opinion, I just happen to like the top down isometric view.

And unless my WoW starts getting boring (which it hasn't after four weeks, impressively) this game will be on my pick up from the EB bargain bin list

I won't have time to pick this up at release either. Between WoW, writing conversation trees for my NWN module, finishing my new AoWSM campaign, and competing against other players in Massive Assault my plate is quite full.

 

[Silencer]

 

[dude_obj]

Matt,

In the other RA thread you said:

They have been overcome by bitterness caused by the continuing lack of Fallout 3, and now any game that isn't FO3 sucks?

Um, no. People said what they thought about the demo. What does that have to do with FO3? Somebody earlier on asked "does this game suck or not?". You saw some answers. The comments about "irrational" and "hostile" are completely groundless.

 

[Roshambo]

Roshambo, why do you keep using the term "straw man argument" incorrectly? Did you read it in a book and think it sounded cool?

Let me enlighten you as to the real definition:

"As a rhetorical term, "straw man" describes a point of view that was created in order to be easily defeated in argument; the creator of a "straw man" argument does not accurately reflect the best arguments of his or her opponents, but instead sidesteps or mischaracterizes them so as to make the opposing view appear weak or ridiculous"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

Exactly, although I noticed you didn't care to include the second part of the definition on that page (or your attention span didn't hold out long enough), else you would probably be looking quite foolish in your own post (well, more than you do already). You just used a bullshit quantifications, twice over now, that ignores the subject at hand and instead goes for a laughable point to feebly attempt to...

... discuss a game that I now perceive is the target of unreasonable hostility here from both forum members and moderators.

Which is bullshit, if you do go back and look at your comments.

My sin is clearly having the temerity to disagree with what is obviously the party line here at NMA (this is often the case is isolated low participation forums that don't support a large enough population to foster more than one point of view). I'm sorry that I found the game amusing and am not prepared to nitpick it into oblivion.

Bullshit.

You first pulled the Fo3 remark out, now the definition of RPG. We are talking about design points, kid. When we want to talk about marketing idiocy, we might honor your fallacy. Until then, stow both the straw man arguments and your laughable "corrections". Both were out of context to the actual discussion and were nothing more than straw man fallacies that you even noose yourself with by your insipid use of a wiki.

Here's a better definition, anyways.

Then you're nothing but a consumer whore

Gosh, after a rebuke like that I will have to go shoot myself. How will I ever go on with my life?

If that is your mental caliber, then the only solution is to take your head off with a bullet of much higher caliber.

But if design isn't important to you, then by all means, keep on perpetuating the erosion of the market.

Perhaps video games are not as central to my life as they are to yours, I just play them for fun and I also have the capacity to recognize when a game is just for frivolous fun mutant blasting and is not intended to reveal truths about reality.

Yet you make bullshit comments about others in a sweeping gesture, and decline to otherwise participate in the thread, within context.

If you're not going to bother talking in context with design in mind, then perhaps you might want to do other things. Like refrain from posting straw man arguments that are wholly bullshit and otherwise devoid of content.

Your only participation in any thread about RA seems to be harassing people who don't agree with you that the game is shit. Well, it's a free country, whatever makes you happy. Does it really upset you that much to see people having a dialogue about a game you don't like?

Funny, now you're putting words into my mouth in another feeble attempt to straw man my position, and I hope you're bright enough to figure the definition of that out, finally. I don't have an opinion of the game either way. I was just telling people to stow the straw man arguments. Seeing as you haven't, how am I supposed to react to that given your attitude?

It should have been a deeper RPG and less superficial in everything it does.

Why should it have been that? Did you put up the investment money to make the game? No, you didn't. As much as I want a real Fallout 3 that is as good or better than the originals, I am not going around judging other games by what they are not.

It's not an RPG, yet you keep trying to call it one, at least in part. So do other people, including the developers. Yet it seems to be lacking RPG elements. On top of that, you decide to defend such by using a really laughable straw man argument that you're using the marketing definition, when that wasn't the point to begin with.

There, have I made your own fallacies clear to even you, or do you just make them and then ignore them out of subconscious reflex?

Judging by the demo, it is pretty clear that the developers wanted to make an action game. If you don't like action games then say "I don't like action games" and move on with your life.

Then it would be called "Action/Adventure", o uneducated market cattle, as it has little to do with role-playing.

I won't have time to pick this up at release either. Between WoW, writing conversation trees for my NWN module, finishing my new AoWSM campaign, and competing against other players in Massive Assault my plate is quite full.

Hopefully a return to the GameSpy forums would also be included into that list.

 

[Matt Helm]

Matt,

In the other RA thread you said:

They have been overcome by bitterness caused by the continuing lack of Fallout 3, and now any game that isn't FO3 sucks?

Um, no. People said what they thought about the demo. What does that have to do with FO3? Somebody earlier on asked "does this game suck or not?". You saw some answers. The comments about "irrational" and "hostile" are completely groundless.

But a careful reading of the thread you are quoting would reveal that I never said the word irrational in either thread, Claw did, in fact he said the following which was quoted by me in the post you quoted out of context (bolding added for emphasis by me):

One reason that finally made me install it were some comments from these disturbing RA-bashers above. I don't know what made these people that hardly ever post crawl out of whatever dark holes they live in, but they seem to posses an irrational disdain for the game.

Obviously someone here who is not me thinks that this community has a bias against RA.

My statement that you quoted was clearly in response to what Claw said, and was intended to be humourous. So, why is it that Claw is not being singled out for expressing these same sentiments that have brought you down on me without cause? I never called anyone irrational. My one comment about hostility was in response to the flaming I got from Roshambo. In fact, the only clearly irrational hostility in the thread is coming from Roshambo. All other aspects of the thread were focussed on the game and how it played until Roshambo decided to step in and take personal offense at the use of a term designating a type of game play.

Let's take a look at the actual facts of what is going on here:

1) Roshambo flames me for using the market definition of an RPG instead of his personal definition and demonstrates obvious hostility in his manner of posting (is calling someone a consumer whore normally the way to open a dialogue on the definition of types of games?).

2) Roshambo fails to add a gloss of erudition to his posts by mis-using the term "straw man argument" when I point out how I am using the term "RPG".

Exactly where is my offense?

 

[Roshambo]

Matt,

In the other RA thread you said:

They have been overcome by bitterness caused by the continuing lack of Fallout 3, and now any game that isn't FO3 sucks?

Um, no. People said what they thought about the demo. What does that have to do with FO3? Somebody earlier on asked "does this game suck or not?". You saw some answers. The comments about "irrational" and "hostile" are completely groundless.

But a careful reading of the thread you are quoting would reveal that I never said the word irrational in either thread, Claw did, in fact he said the following (bolding added for emphasis by me):
(snip rest)

Do you honestly think we have forgotten about your comment in the other thread?

Apparently, you need help using a thesaurus as well.

My one comment about hostility was in response to the flaming I got from Roshambo. In fact, the only clearly irrational hostility in the thread is coming from Roshambo. All other aspects of the thread were focussed on the game and how it played until Roshambo decided to step in and take personal offense at the use of a term designating a type of game play.

No, one and starting on two threads, are being derailed by some chucklehead using straw man arguments.

Let's take a look at the actual facts of what is going on here:

1) Roshambo flames me for using the market definition of an RPG instead of his personal definition and demonstrates obvious hostility in his manner of posting.

It is not a personal definition, it is a design definition. Get it straight.

2) Roshambo fails to add a gloss of erudition to his posts by mis-using the term "straw man argument" when I point out how I am using the term "RPG".

Exactly where is my offense?

Trolling, on top of everything else.

 

[dude_obj]

Let's take a look at the actual facts

Let's not waste anyone's time or bandwidth.
Tip: complaining to moderators about moderators doesn't work.

 

[Claw]

Perhaps video games are not as central to my life as they are to yours, I just play them for fun and I also have the capacity to recognize when a game is just for frivolous fun mutant blasting and is not intended to reveal truths about reality.

You really went out of your way to show Rosh some good Straw Men, didn't you.

Claw, weren't you the one complaining about the money split? Maybe it was in another thread.

Indeed I was, and it was. Anyway, your reply shows a lack of understanding of how capitalism works. The pilot is more valuable than you. His ship is more valuable than your life. You are nothing. Every idiot can try to do the job.
Besides, he should be having high expenses and cannot afford to offer his service for 25% of what might be nothing.
And for the scenario to be believeable, we have to assume there are others (like you) who use Jason's service. He doesn't need to do business with you so badly.

Why should it have been that? Did you put up the investment money to make the game? No, you didn't.

I can't have an opinion because I'm no investor? Whatever.

As much as I want a real Fallout 3 that is as good or better than the originals, I am not going around judging other games by what they are not.

What does FO3 have to do with this cyperpunk game? Nothing. Less, if possible.
This is where you seriously begin to lose me. I am also a cyberpunk fan. Not a huge fan, but enough to care if it's just used as a disguise for magic items.

Judging by the demo, it is pretty clear that the developers wanted to make an action game. If you don't like action games then say "I don't like action games" and move on with your life.

If you hadn't already convinced me you don't care for a serious discussion this would have done the trick nicely.

Obviously someone here who is not me thinks that this community has a bias against RA.

Well, but I was actually referring to a small number of people who I've never seen post before, who either hardly ever posted or were newcomers. This was emphasized by an apparent absence of the regulars in the discussions. It just struck me as odd.
It can hardly be counted against the community, which as I understand it is made up by people who are active, as opposed to AfterShickVibe who made four posts, two about RA, one about kitchen rolls and an introduction post.
If anything I'd call the community disinterested.

 

[Roshambo]

I do believe this calls for an...