Notes on Fallout TV (Return to the Nolanverse complete, Review notes complete)

CT Phipps said:
Let's face it, fucking morons thought, "oh, no one would actually pollute and destroy the environment if they could make just as much money sustainably."

Dipshits.

Thankfully, we're finally waking up to the realization that no one actually gives a shit about doing the right thing and will do it because they can.
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Not necessarily. The whole "sustainably" thing isn't as easy as some make it out to be. And yeah, people don't want to give up their bottom lines for that.
 
Hassknecht said:
Not necessarily. The whole "sustainably" thing isn't as easy as some make it out to be. And yeah, people don't want to give up their bottom lines for that.
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There's also the fact, and this should have been obvious but lots of so-called progressives don't fucking understand basic human psychology so they think otherwise, a lot of people in power don't give a shit.

"Oh, this will destroy the world in two hundred years. Whoop de fucking do."

Ditto pollution from their factories having more direct effects.

It's the most human thing in the world to go, "Not affecting me, not my problem."
 
Capitalists are ok with destroying the environment because that's a long term consequence proposition that they're betting on not having to deal with personally. One way or another they believe they can insulate themselves from the consequences behind their walled gardens and resort destinations while everyone else is left to clean up their mess.

What capitalists are not ok with is global thermonuclear war so they can live like communists underground. That's blowing up the walled garden and everything inside of it. There are no other ways to illustrate this point, it's inarguable. It's literally too stupid for Captain Planet villains.
 
Don't you see Brady that Capitalism is bad because COAL. I'm from *area* that means I am an expert on the subject.
 
TheGM said:
Don't you see Brady that Capitalism is bad because COAL. I'm from *area* that means I am an expert on the subject.
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Sure my EVIL schemes have rendered my sums of material and fiat wealth completely useless. Because I will use Human Suffering as the currency now! See the biggest investment of this new capital was the war itself because despite having all the money, wealth and power with no government oversight, if I reset everything back to year zero I can end up in a worse situation than I was before but IT MAKES SENSE IN CONTEXT!

Also I will ignore the fact the Sierra Madre and Big Mt have matter replicators totally ending my resources needs.

I will also ignore the fact that Vault-Tec has the Genesis device from Star Trek II.
 
TheGM said:
Don't you see Brady that Capitalism is bad because COAL. I'm from *area* that means I am an expert on the subject.
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I say EXPERIENCE means NOTHING in a loud voice on INTERNET. Thus FUNNY and satire means guy wrong!

Seriously, though, the assumptions of people giving a shit are kind of hilarious.

But I conceded anyway. There's not enough world building for explaining Vault-Tec;s reasoning even if I find RL corporations fully capable of burning the forest to save it.
 
CT Phipps said:
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All the other stupid shit he did like start 2 MIC-profit wars and shred privacy with the Patriot Act and the like and you're going to bash him for that? I am not even sure how you would quantify that statement. Which pollution are we talking about? Meme idiocy.
 
Hawkwing74 said:
All the other stupid shit he did like start 2 MIC-profit wars and shred privacy with the Patriot Act and the like and you're going to bash him for that? I am not even sure how you would quantify that statement. Which pollution are we talking about? Meme idiocy.
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I can bust him for everything stupid he did. What I'm saying is that rich powerful oil heir and politician don't give shits about environment.

Not exactly a revelation of the Lovecraftian SAN blasting variety.
 
CT Phipps said:
But I conceded anyway. There's not enough world building for explaining Vault-Tec;s reasoning even if I find RL corporations fully capable of burning the forest to save it.
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You just don't understand the objectives of capital. Burning the forest to save it is a common method of forestry to help control forest fires before conditions get too bad to control. When capitalists burn forests it's to clear it for cultivation or land development. Most importantly, capitalists don't live in the forest like squirrels, so it's not as if they're burning their own homes down. Which is the literal thing that Vault-Tec is doing in the TV show.

You're trying too hard to make sense of a system inherently at odds with itself. You think that capitalists collude with each other as a class rather than as cartels, and that the conflict capitalism operates on means that individual capitalists act against their own interests. No. Basic Marxist theory states that capitalists are at odds with each other because they act consistently in their individual interests. This results in an acceleration of contradictions within capitalism, not the resolution of contradictions through some kind of class collaboration. The fascists tried forcing class collusion between proletarians and capitalists, and it failed. Those contradictions can only be overcome through a revolutionary restructuring of society.

What we see in the show is not capitalists acting consistently in their own interests under competitive pressure to overcome their market rivals, what we see is capitalists destroying capitalism so they can do Nazi experiments in metal caves. You keep harping on everything that extractive industries have done to Appalachia, but you don't understand that at the end of the day the coal and oil companies are reproducing capitalism. Everything they do reifies the system, whereas starting a thermonuclear war is as unreproductive as it gets.
 
TheGM said:
It is actually an acronym. Capitalists Oppressing American Liberties.
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I think shitty capitalism is a major problem in America because people destroy the restrictions that make it profitable. They're too worried about high stock prices versus sustainable growth and actually building something valuable in the long term.

Trade and economics need the government as an intermediary.

Bradylama said:
No. Basic Marxist theory states that capitalists are at odds with each other because they act consistently in their individual interests.
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Which reflects the heart of our disagreement: I think Marxism is fucking stupid.
 
If something is stated by "basic Marxist theory", you can just assume it to be wrong.
 
Bradylama said:
That's funny, because you're not disagreeing with it.
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One, because I haven't even said anything about it, and Two, well, it's not really a Marxist observation, it's just what capitalism is. I guess even Marxist theory can't get basic definitions wrong (not for lack of trying, but I guess when it suits them they're occasionally at least not lying). Glorious. Now, yes, I do want fries with that.
 
Hassknecht said:
One, because I haven't even said anything about it, and Two, well, it's not really a Marxist observation, it's just what capitalism is. I guess even Marxist theory can't get basic definitions wrong (not for lack of trying, but I guess when it suits them they're occasionally at least not lying). Glorious. Now, yes, I do want fries with that.
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Marxism is ultimately nothing more than the study of actually existing capitalism.
 
Bradylama said:
Marxism is ultimately nothing more than the study of actually existing capitalism.
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When are we getting our proletarian revolution followed by classless society? Seems always some distance out just like the end of the world from climate change.

As if any humans could ever have a classless society.
 
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