Notes on Fallout TV (Return to the Nolanverse complete, Review notes complete)

How many people do you think survived the original Fallout 1, 21 years after the bombs dropped? Shady Sands is a town of like 30 people, there are more Khans in a raiding group than an entire town? The Khans survive game after game and need to be ended already.

I mean, a shit ton more than represented in the game. I'm assuming Shady Sands is meant to be a community of hundreds at least.

The New Khans are already a reformed group compared to the Khans of old, who killed their own fathers as an intitiation rite. Papa Khan is also a reasonable man, and could have been a ready ally to the NCR after losing their dominion in the Mojave. But he can't let the pain of Bitter Springs go. The best ending for the Khans either involves Papa Khan disbanding the group, or the establishment of a Khan empire in Wyoming with consultation from the Followers of the Apocalypse.

Part of the reason I am never on NCR's side is what they do to the Khans if you kill Papa Khan and have his son ally with them.

After the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, the Great Khans returned for a time to Red Rock Canyon. The NCR's pressing need to expand proved greater than its promise of amnesty, and before long the government decided the Khans had to go. The surviving Great Khans were relocated to an isolated, barren reservation, well north of NCR trade routes.
 
I can tell already the notes for this episode are gonna be late. Holy moley. Among one of the things I didn't notice before: the Enclave facility has mysteriously LESS security after the alarm goes off than before.
 
Here's something the chew on. Probably the most important takeaway from episode 2.
GNhUma8WoAA4jhA
 
Also, my sincere opinion on the Bitter Springs Massacre:

The massacre of women and children at Bitter Springs was intentional. Anyone familiar with the geography would know that there would be only one exit through Coyote Pass, yet First Recon was ordered to open fire on sight. Army command has access to all of the government maps they could want. They knew what they were doing. The only thing that stopped the massacre was the Colonel seizing up, operating on the lie that this was an operation on a Khan raiding base; which allowed Dhatri to take command and order a ceasefire. If things had gone according to plan the Khans would have been wiped out down to the last woman and child.
 
Vault-Tec answers to the Enclave and is a part of it. Hasn't this been canon since Fallout 2?

Bethesda knows this and had Vault 101 deliberately refuse the codes that could order them to open up.
 
Also, my sincere opinion on the Bitter Springs Massacre:

The massacre of women and children at Bitter Springs was intentional. Anyone familiar with the geography would know that there would be only one exit through Coyote Pass, yet First Recon was ordered to open fire on sight. Army command has access to all of the government maps they could want. They knew what they were doing. The only thing that stopped the massacre was the Colonel seizing up, operating on the lie that this was an operation on a Khan raiding base; which allowed Dhatri to take command and order a ceasefire. If things had gone according to plan the Khans would have been wiped out down to the last woman and child.

Of course they were ordered to open fire on sight, it was the base for the massacres and atrocities of the Great Khans that they'd carried out against towns, camps, and soldiers. It just also happened to be their tribal camp.

The incompetence of the commander was that they didn't realize the noncombatants were evacuating as opposed to the actual soldiers. Fog of war happens all the time in real life combat. The Khans notably never bothered to surrender, identify their noncombatants, or attempt to communicate to NCR that they were attempting an evacuation of noncombatants.

Basically, all of the responsibility for Bitter Springs is thrown on NCR when the Khans behaved with incredible arrogance, stupid provocation (almost literal "poking of the bear"), and unwillingness to engage in any formal rules of war.

And if NCR did want to wipe the Great Khans out, they certainly could have. Colonel Moore shows that NCR is willing to do so as the orders to destroy the BOS bunker show. Certainly, NCR could have annihilated the Red Rock Canyon survivors without difficulty or never let them leave in the firts place.
 
Vault-Tec answers to the Enclave and is a part of it. Hasn't this been canon since Fallout 2?
i dont think so. im pretty sure vault tec was meant to be an integral part of a conspiracy it was meant to stay ignorant of entirely but its been a minute.
 
Here's something the chew on. Probably the most important takeaway from episode 2.
GNhUma8WoAA4jhA

The easiest explanation? Because they changed the core theme of Fallout from conflict and its inevitably to haves and have-nots and anti-Capitalism in the TV show, the evil mega corporation Vault-Tec must be the bigger bad guy.
 
Basically, all of the responsibility for Bitter Springs is thrown on NCR when the Khans behaved with incredible arrogance, stupid provocation (almost literal "poking of the bear"), and unwillingness to engage in any formal rules of war.

And if NCR did want to wipe the Great Khans out, they certainly could have. Colonel Moore shows that NCR is willing to do so as the orders to destroy the BOS bunker show. Certainly, NCR could have annihilated the Red Rock Canyon survivors without difficulty or never let them leave in the firts place.

"Native Americans were no angels and committed atrocities too. If the United States wanted to wipe out the tribes they very easily could have. Settlers were provoked."
 
The easiest explanation? Because they changed the core theme of Fallout from conflict and its inevitably to haves and have-nots and anti-Capitalism in the TV show, the evil mega corporation Vault-Tec must be the bigger bad guy.
The conflict between haves and have-nots has been at the root of Fallout from the beginning. The Resource Wars were basically a conflict between resource rich First World countries and the rest of the world who wanted their own shot at industrial development. The Vault Dweller comes from the most secure and privileged population in the wasteland and only pokes their head out to save their own community's ass, and discovers they're existentially threatened by an army of mutated survivalists. The Enclave are the descendants of the American ruling class. The NCR is a bourgeois dictatorship while the Legion is a military dictatorship, with capitalist and martial ruling classes respectively. Those are real, genuine class-driven conflicts. Fallout 1 stands out for being the most immediately survival-driven of the games.

What the TV show presents is not a conflict between haves and have-nots, but the haves deciding to blow up what they do have, to kill all the have-nots, but without any kind of plan for guaranteeing that outcome. So they come back to nuke the have-nots who are now haves, because they want to be the only haves in the no-have zone, even though nuking the hoi polloi didn't work before and won't work now. Plus there's no follow up to Hank's nuking of Shady Sands so they have no idea just how civilized the rest of America could be if Hank already knows about the NCR.

This isn't just going around in circles, it's not an actual "conflict." It's a one-sided conspiracy to commit classicide that the victims aren't even aware of and the perpetrators can't possibly succeed at.
 
Notes for Return to the Nolanverse Episode 2
Return to the Nolanverse Episode 2

It’s been a while since the last one so I’m coming at this with fresh eyes.
- the birth of Dogmeat. She can hear the ink spots in the womb.
- Pups weighing under 10ozs are incinerated, and Wilzig fudges the numbers to spare
Dogmeat. It’s not clear what the dogs are being raised for, but they are being trained. Likely
for a cyber dog program. Dogmeat’s designation is “CX404.”
- Wilzig singles out Dogmeat as an older pup for some purpose. The Enclave facility appears
to be a large warehouse with a glass and steel canopy. It’s significantly staffed. Guard in the
foreground has a fresh uniform, factory condition helmet, and a laser rifle. The Enclave has a
high level of technical capability still.
- Wilzig is stopped at a checkpoint and waved over with some kind of detector. So there is a
lot of security at the facility. Super mutant teased on the gurney.
- Wilzig is personally training and raising Dogmeat like a pet so she lacks the aggressive
conditioning of a dog from the program. Is he doing this in his own office? He hides her in
the wall behind a chalkboard.
- Wilzig is doing some investigation of the cold fusion core, which the Enclave has for some
reason. Wilzig injects the core into his head with a device designed for inserting implants. If
the core is flashing and can shock people through skin, then it’s emitting a massive amount
of energy. Wilzig’s brain should have fried in no time.
- Wilzig naps off the glowing capsule. A colleague walks in on Wilzig as he was hiding and
switches the alarm. Dogmeat attacks and kills him for pushing down Wilzig. So again, what
exactly was Wilzig’s plan? He didn’t intend to leave so what was he actually doing? What
was his plan with Dogmeat?
- So despite the alarm going off and guards buzzing with activity, all the actual security seen
before is nowhere now, and Wilzig reaches the surface without being questioned. Do the
showrunners and Nolan not understand how alarms work? if there’s no actual security then
Wilzig could have left any time.
- Wilzig is shot at by a minimum turret and all the bullets miss both him and the dog. This is if
anything too obviously a joke about the dice roll combat in the Fallout series, but it just looks
stupid and cartoonish in the context of a tv show. This is billing itself as prestige tv, not a
YouTube skit.
- Lucy wanders the Santa Monica coastline. It’s pretty convenient that the Santa Monica pier
has the same coastline whereas elsewhere the coastline has receded and left derelict hulls
baking in the sun.
- Lucy comes across the same abandoned coastal neighborhood that everyone seems to
travel through for desert transitions. She’s bewildered by a tumbleweed and comes across a
dead assaultron.
- Lucy wanders through a house and finds the bodies of a family who died when the bombs
fell. She picks up a brown glass bottle of Vault-Tec Plan B, a commercially available cyanide.
- This is a huge problem for the show’s whole premise because it confirms that Vault-Tec was
in the public consumer market and wasn’t just depending on the vaults. The conspiracy to
start the Great War is pitched based on its necessity for the vaults paying off as an
investment, but Vault-Tec’s market based business model was for consumer products. The
experimentation of designing the vaults and running trial studies spun off innovations in
consumer technology similar to NASA. A better show would be able to tie the commercial
cyanide to Nazi views of suffering and death in prewar America, but here it’s nothing more
than a setup for Wilzig’s joke later about banana flavored cyanide not being more popular.
Or, even more relevant to the show, Cooper could have prepared cyanide for Janey.
- Lucy makes camp for the night without putting out her fire. Wilzig comes across her with
Dogmeat. This has weird implications for the geography of the show. Santa Monica is west
of the Boneyard, but the Enclave facility was in the snowy mountains, which would be north
and northeast of Los Angeles, possibly as far as the Sierra Nevada mountains. If Wilzig is
heading for Moldaver in Griffith Observatory he’d be going north>south and not encounter
Lucy at all.
- Dogmeat saves Lucy from a radroach and Wilzig says a bunch of creepy shit about them.
Wilzig talks about radroach evolution to illustrate to Lucy that she has to adapt in order to
survive.
- Lucy asks about Moldaver and Wilzig ignores the question, even though he should
understand the implications of that. He knows intimate details about vault 33 but isn’t
curious about why a vault dweller is pursuing Moldaver. Does he already know that Moldaver
needs Hank for the code? Wilzig and Dogmeat walk off into the darkness. Lucy asks who he
is and there is no answer.
- The code for the core comes back to a problem I hinted at in the last episode: what is The
Enclave’s relationship to Vault-Tec? Cold Fusion was proprietary vault-tec technology yet
The Enclave is in posession of the core. Why would the Enclave have the core but not the
code? Vault-Tec is a government contractor so it makes sense why the Enclave would have
the core, but Vault-Tec keeping the code secret means that the Enclave and Vault-Tec don’t
share the same goals. If they were the same faction it would also be Enclave officials frozen
in cryo sleep and not Vault-Tec executives. This all implies that the Enclave wasn’t in on the
boardroom conspiracy. So much of the bad ideas in this show would make sense if it was
the Enclave doing them and not Vault-Tec. Even the incestuous eugenics of the management
vaults fits for The Enclave’s Nazi ideology.
- Maximus on the vertibird with Titus. Titus lords over Maximus like a peon. Maximus orders a
set down because he’s “bored” and wants to shoot something. In defiance of a direct order
from the high clerics. Do the Brotherhood only get things done on sheer stupid luck? They
literally stumble across Wilzig’s campsite without even looking for him.
- Titus orders Maximus ahead to investigate the Yao Guai and gets snuck up on. Maximus has
several opportunities to shoot the Yao Guai but doesn’t. He only shoots just before it kills
Titus. Titus correctly blames Maximus for getting him mortally wounded, but threatens to
have Maximus killed before he gets a stimpak.
- Maximus quotes a Brotherhood tenet to excuse letting Titus die. “It is a knight’s duty to
better this fallen world. You don’t deserve that armor.” Maximus thinks the brotherhood
won’t kill him if he returns with the target.
- Lucy encounters the water filter guy. The man too stupid to survive. One of the worst jokes
that people love the shit out of. Water filter guy was planting tatos in his front yard.
- Filly sits at the top of a hill in a patch of verdant forest springing out from the desert. It’s in
view of the San Gabriel mountains. Lucy hasn’t reached the Boneyard yet, which means Filly
is also to the west of The Boneyard. Why would Moldaver plan on transporting Wilzig from
north to southwest and then east to Griffith Observatory? Why not send a team to pick up
Wilzig and take him directly to the observatory? The entire inciting incident from premise to
plan is contrived so that the main characters all converge on Filly at the same time. This
script feels like a rough draft.
- Maximus climbs into the T-60 and goes on a power fantasy trip.
- Maximus encounters the chicken fucker. He accidentally discovers the arm thrusters to
enable Iron Man mode.
- The area around Filly is implied to be a landfill, with derelict cars left everywhere. The trash
forming the construction of Filly was fashioned from other derelicts, including plane parts.
Homes are suitably fashioned from repurposed busses and campers along with patched up
airplane fuselages. The production team had a good concept for what the outer market
would look like. Farmers walk around to sell their produce, including livestock. One shot
features a two-headed Brahmin, which Lucy is totally unfazed by even though she’s never
seen or heard of anything like it. Filly’s downtown is a walled shopping mall, with market
stalls and general stores.
- Cooper was able to hang out and sit in a rocking chair, despite Ma June saying that ghouls
aren’t welcome in Filly. Shouldn’t his mere presence have started an incident?
- Ma June’s Sundries store. A stimpak in the display case is shown in the foreground to the
audience. This show violates the Chekov’s gun rule with the one thing that could have saved
Wilzig’s life. More than that, Lucy sees the stimpak and knows it’s there.
- Dale Dickey gives the best performance for a side character in the show. Ma June is one of
only two characters that got a laugh out of me purely on line delivery.
- Ma June gets hostile when Lucy brings up Moldaver. Ma June is already contracted and
doesn’t want Lucy interfering in the plan.
- Ma June denies the importance of the vaults. “And when exactly were you planning on
saving America? The vaults were nothing more than a hole in the ground for rich folks to hide
in, while the rest of the world burned.
- Lucy acknowledges her privilege.
- Ma June pulls out a rifle, “Fuck the vaults.”
- Wilzig arrives with Dogmeat. Ma June has ground meat ready for Dogmeat’s arrival. Wilzig
tells Lucy to go home but then gives her a reason to follow him by dropping intimate
knowledge of vault 33. This guy has no idea what he’s doing.
- Ma June uses Wilzig’s name in public even though the contract is supposed to be secret.
This of course tips off Cooper if he hadn’t already recognized Wilzig from the poster.
- Filly is known to be a dangerous location where deadly incidents happen regularly, yet there
are no laws and no sign of any enforcer class to maintain order in the market. Filly has no
apparent ruler or government. An impossible libertarian fantasy. No real life human being
would want to risk their inventory in such a violent and dangerous marketplace. Sorrell
declared himself president yet there are no cops in Filly. Nothing about this world is
consistent with itself. Just bearing in mind: Diamond City in Fallout 4 has a militia who wear
baseball catcher gear as armor. Bethesda’s empty wastelands are more civilized than the
TV’s Boneyard.
- Cooper announces that the bounty on Wilzig came through “all six agencies.”
- Cooper immediately blows Wilzig’s foot off so he can’t be transported.
- Ma June offers a thousand bottle caps to whoever kills Cooper, when realistically everyone
with a gun should know about the Enclave’s bounty, which is substantially higher. It would
have been a far more novel scene if the whole town started shooting at each other for the
chance to claim Wilzig’s bounty instead of just Cooper tanking shots with the ghoul’s new
Wolverine healing factor.
- Cooper’s primary weapon is a cool concept for a Fallout handgun. It’s a 4-shot revolving
cylinder shotgun with a pistol grip handle and a barrel sawed down to pistol length. Instead
of buckshot Cooper uses solid slugs, with an armor piercing sabot variant featured in the
finale. A genuine hand cannon. Of course, Cooper ends up shooting more than four shots
without reloading.
- Cooper shoots Ma June through the knee. Dogmeat picks now long adter Wilzig was injured
and with the firefight to attack Cooper. Cooper sticks Dogmeat with a knife.
- Lucy is looking through Ma June’s ledger for information on Moldaver, but feels compelled to
help when she hears Moldaver.
- Lucy looks at a rack of weapons and the camera pans up to hold on a junk launcher, but
Lucy doesn’t take any of them and goes out with her tranq pistol. That’s two Chekov’s gun
violations with literal guns now. This show lives wasting the viewer’s time and attention.
- Lucy tries engaging Cooper with conflict resolution methods. More HR woke jokes. “Fucking
Vault Dwellers, Jesus.”
- The tranq doesn’t affect Cooper. Now Maximus flies in. Maximus runs in T-60 armor to
intercept a bullet. At no other point does anyone use this dashing feature for the power
armor that can outrun bullets. Maximus doesn’t know how to handle a firearm with the
power armor and fumbles. He tries punching cooper to death. Cooper shoots blindly with
his repeating rifle to no effect. Cooper climbs up the stairs knowing power armor is too
heavy to follow on rickety wood planks.
- Ma June and Barv “treat”
- Wilzig without using a stimpak, even though it’s what they’re paid to do. The prosthetic foot
grinds off Wilzig’s stump with no tourniquet or cauterizing. This almost certainly made him
bleed out faster.
- Lucy asks if Maximus is a knight. She just so happens to conveniently be right to assume
that. Wilzig has Lucy transport him. Ma June reluctantly agrees and pitches Lucy on the
prospect of finding Moldaver. Lucy agrees and Ma June puts the coordinates into the pip-
boy.
- Maximus is tossing cooper like a rag doll. He flies little and gets stuck in a wooden plank.
The power armor should be powerful enough to wrest free of the floorboards but Maximus
doesn’t know what he’s doing. Cooper floats about “not reading the manual” and cuts a
hydraulic pump with his combat knife. Maximus can’t maintain balance and tries flying away.
Cooper hooks him with a tow cable and Maximus loses control, flying off.
- Chickenfucker is hawking serums as Lucy and Wilzig pass by. Has Chickenfucker never had
a customer? Is that why he’s not known as a miracle worker or ghoul maker?
- Cooper investigates and finds Wilzig already gone. He uses the stimpak on Dogmeat so she
can help him track her. This is the first instance where Dogmeat acts out of character for a
dog. From Dogmeat’s perspective, Cooper hurt her master and then hurt her with a knife, yet
she faithfully follows Cooper like she understands what’s happening. She should have
immediately bolted after Wilzig’s blood trail and left Cooper in the dust.
- Dusk has fallen and the town is cleaning up. Nobody seems fazed by the massacre that
happened just an hour ago.
- The satellite where Wilzig died is Soviet in origin, which implies that the Sino-American war
was actually a hot war with the communist world. The Soviet Union existed in the Fallout
timeline but was mostly focused on its own affairs in Central Asia until the Great War broke
out.
- Wilzig dies without revealing anything about his desires and motivations, or his plans. He’s a
walking talking mcguffin reduced to a rotting head. He doesn’t even explain why his head is
so important and she goes along with it anyway. Wilzig says she can change the future but
doesn’t say how or why. “This is the only way to get your dad back. I knew I could trust you,
you’re a vault dweller.” Shouldn’t Wilzig know that vault-tec was trying to repress cold
fusion? Hank McClean’s daughter is the last person in the world he should trust even if he
doesn’t have a choice.

Here’s where all the dumb fucking comedy writing comes in and the show starts falling apart.
So much stupid shit is just a set up to a punchline that isn’t funny. I believe for sure that
Wagner wrote 50 episodes of Portlandia while Robertson-Dworet wrote for the Harvard
Lampoon. This shit sucks ass.
 
Vault-Tec answers to the Enclave and is a part of it. Hasn't this been canon since Fallout 2?

Bethesda knows this and had Vault 101 deliberately refuse the codes that could order them to open up.
No? Vault-Tec was just a government contractor building vaults. The Enclave was just American government remnants. Probably not even called "Enclave" before, or some form of cabal shadow government. They were the Enclave of the old USA, nothing more, hence the name.
 
The conflict between haves and have-nots has been at the root of Fallout from the beginning. The Resource Wars were basically a conflict between resource rich First World countries and the rest of the world who wanted their own shot at industrial development. The Vault Dweller comes from the most secure and privileged population in the wasteland and only pokes their head out to save their own community's ass, and discovers they're existentially threatened by an army of mutated survivalists. The Enclave are the descendants of the American ruling class. The NCR is a bourgeois dictatorship while the Legion is a military dictatorship, with capitalist and martial ruling classes respectively. Those are real, genuine class-driven conflicts. Fallout 1 stands out for being the most immediately survival-driven of the games.

What the TV show presents is not a conflict between haves and have-nots, but the haves deciding to blow up what they do have, to kill all the have-nots, but without any kind of plan for guaranteeing that outcome. So they come back to nuke the have-nots who are now haves, because they want to be the only haves in the no-have zone, even though nuking the hoi polloi didn't work before and won't work now. Plus there's no follow up to Hank's nuking of Shady Sands so they have no idea just how civilized the rest of America could be if Hank already knows about the NCR.

This isn't just going around in circles, it's not an actual "conflict." It's a one-sided conspiracy to commit classicide that the victims aren't even aware of and the perpetrators can't possibly succeed at.
IMG_4317.gif
 
i dont think so. im pretty sure vault tec was meant to be an integral part of a conspiracy it was meant to stay ignorant of entirely but its been a minute.

Well before the retcon of the show, I thought all of the crazy tests the Vault-Tec folk were doing were for the Enclave with the latter being the setting's ultimate big bad.

"Native Americans were no angels and committed atrocities too. If the United States wanted to wipe out the tribes they very easily could have. Settlers were provoked."

Yeah, I wouldn't make that comparison. "Native Americans are drug dealing raiders who engaged in constant unprovoked atrocities against the United States." That's not a sentence I'd want my name associated with.

The Great Khans aren't without sympathy but they're a criminal gang first and foremost.

No? Vault-Tec was just a government contractor building vaults. The Enclave was just American government remnants. Probably not even called "Enclave" before, or some form of cabal shadow government. They were the Enclave of the old USA, nothing more, hence the name.

I mean, the crazy tests weren't made by bethesda. They were made by Fallout 2 and gathering information for the Enclave. While the Fallout Bible is no longer canon, things like the broken door on Necropolis and other "tests" were done for people other than Vault-Tec itself.

So these contractors were directly answering to the people ordering them about.
 
Last edited:
The conflict between haves and have-nots has been at the root of Fallout from the beginning. The Resource Wars were basically a conflict between resource rich First World countries and the rest of the world who wanted their own shot at industrial development. The Vault Dweller comes from the most secure and privileged population in the wasteland and only pokes their head out to save their own community's ass, and discovers they're existentially threatened by an army of mutated survivalists. The Enclave are the descendants of the American ruling class. The NCR is a bourgeois dictatorship while the Legion is a military dictatorship, with capitalist and martial ruling classes respectively. Those are real, genuine class-driven conflicts. Fallout 1 stands out for being the most immediately survival-driven of the games.

What the TV show presents is not a conflict between haves and have-nots, but the haves deciding to blow up what they do have, to kill all the have-nots, but without any kind of plan for guaranteeing that outcome. So they come back to nuke the have-nots who are now haves, because they want to be the only haves in the no-have zone, even though nuking the hoi polloi didn't work before and won't work now. Plus there's no follow up to Hank's nuking of Shady Sands so they have no idea just how civilized the rest of America could be if Hank already knows about the NCR.

This isn't just going around in circles, it's not an actual "conflict." It's a one-sided conspiracy to commit classicide that the victims aren't even aware of and the perpetrators can't possibly succeed at.

I think the show's version, which I defend but not to the level of thinking its particularly genius, has always been the idea of short term gain justification and war profiteering regardless of long term sustainability. The show's argument is that this is not a matter of ignorance but the people involved in climate change and war mongering are not at all ignorant of the end results or humanitarian costs but fully aware but simply do not care as long as they can ride out the apocalypse. Also, the apocalypse is a better alternative than losing money in the short term.

I suspect the primary difference here is the fact I take exaggeration as part of satire while other fans would prefer a literal representation of how this would go.
 
Yeah, I wouldn't make that comparison. "Native Americans are drug dealing raiders who engaged in constant unprovoked atrocities against the United States." That's not a sentence I'd want my name associated with.

The Great Khans aren't without sympathy but they're a criminal gang first and foremost.

A "criminal" gang according to whose law? You're taking it on good faith based on nothing that the Khans were doing things "without provocation." Bud, the Settlers didn't say the natives were provoked either. It was always revenge for some kind of heathen savagery.


I think the show's version, which I defend but not to the level of thinking its particularly genius, has always been the idea of short term gain justification and war profiteering regardless of long term sustainability. The show's argument is that this is not a matter of ignorance but the people involved in climate change and war mongering are not at all ignorant of the end results or humanitarian costs but fully aware but simply do not care as long as they can ride out the apocalypse. Also, the apocalypse is a better alternative than losing money in the short term.

I suspect the primary difference here is the fact I take exaggeration as part of satire while other fans would prefer a literal representation of how this would go.
There are no "short term" or "long term" gains, because they blow everything up and the plan fails before it's even conceived. That's just plain retarded.
 
There are no "short term" or "long term" gains, because they blow everything up and the plan fails before it's even conceived. That's just plain retarded.

Does it fail? Vault-Tec and the Enclave are one of the guiding powers in the Wasteland for 200 years. They live in luxury while just about everyone else is utterly fucked over.

Here's something the chew on. Probably the most important takeaway from episode 2.
GNhUma8WoAA4jhA

I mean, just from the top of my head there's a SHIT ton of assumptions here.

1. The Enclave probably does have the code. Wilzig doesn't have the code, though.
2. Moldaver doesn't have the code, so she kidnaps Hank to torture him into doing it. It certainly is more emotionally satisfying to do this anyway.
3. The people frozen in Bud's Buds are middle management, not high level Vault-Tec executives. It's just Bud preserving the useless TPS report people because he has a trace of humanity.
4. The boardroom conspiracy is probably the birth of the Enclave in the revised timeline. Certainly, it's a collection of the powers behind America in 2070s.
5. Moldaver robs the Enclave of cold fusion and needs Vault-Tec's codes implies they are the same or at least linked.
 
Last edited:
All of your potential explanations are just total nonsense that are ultimately tautological. Yet again. There's no good reason for the Enclave to have the core but not the code. Not unless Vault-Tec and the Enclave are distinct entities with different goals. If the Enclave had the core they'd be using it, not leaving it in a research facility for Wilzig to poke at.

Does it fail? Vault-Tec and the Enclave are one of the guiding powers in the Wasteland for 200 years. They live in luxury while just about everyone else is utterly fucked over.

Leon asks what they're going to do about survivors on the surface with their little blow up the world plan and all Bud has to say is "time." So yeah I'd say the plan fucking failed from inception.
 
All of your potential explanations are just total nonsense that are ultimately tautological. Yet again. There's no good reason for the Enclave to have the core but not the code.

Who says they don't? Especially if they're the same group. Wilzig doesn't necessarily have the code, though. He managed to get the plans for the cold fusion system and Moldaver got Hank. Their plan worked. It just got fucked up by Wilzig getting found out before he could escape freely.

Not unless Vault-Tec and the Enclave are distinct entities with different goals. If the Enclave had the core they'd be using it, not leaving it in a research facility for Wilzig to poke at.

Not necessarily. After all, free energy doesn't help wipe out the rest of the human race any faster. The Enclave has access to plans for massive numbers of things from X01 power armor to vertibirds to fusion reactors. They just lost most of their manufacturing capacity due to getting their two main bases annihilated.

Leon asks what they're going to do about survivors on the surface with their little blow up the world plan and all Bud has to say is "time." So yeah I'd say the plan fucking failed from inception.

The idea of waiting out humanity to wipe itself out was indeed a flaw but they've had several plans to speed that along - FEV for example if we're assuming the Enclave and Vault are the same group.
 
Back
Top