Nuka World should have been its own game

[CT Phipps]

I

Ah. This would be the argument of someone with nothing to back up their claim. Look, I too enjoyed fallout 3. But the story is full of plot holes and shit that just makes no sense and because of that it is inferior to NV. I also don't consider fallout 3 canon. Oh and if any DLC should have been a full game then I'd vote either Honest hearts or the Pitt. Honest hearts has more to work with.

I could talk about Fallout 3 and why I like it but why would I in a thread about Nuka World and how awesome it was. But yes, I know about all of its flaws. They don't in any way impede my love of the game.

Honest Hearts is fine for a DLC but it wouldn't have been great if it was a full game because it was just the size it needed to be.

It's a park, it's got some characters, a central dilemma.

Done.

 

[R.Graves]

Source of change? Don't make such a statement without proof.
Also, the NCR had proper tech at hand. They could keep historical records of such events even if the Vault Dweller's gender is not remembered (by the way, the canonical gender was male).

Tandi refers to the VD as "he" and the statue is clearly that of a male. Fo1 even states that your actions are well documented and that the only unknown is what happened to you.

@CT Phipps

I wouldn't say shit if my mouth were full of it.

 

[Vergil]

why I like it but why would I in a thread about Nuka World and how awesome it was

Because if we didn't do that this thread would be empty because Nuka World is shit.

 

[CT Phipps]

...

You've once again missed the forest for the trees. The Legion is another method of creating civilization in a post-apocalyptic world where instead of using modern societal standards and norms, Sallow used an ancient civilization's standards and norms to pacify a region of hostile and savage tribals. The Legion is essentially a newly born nation following practices from ancient civilization. It's not a "religious fueled terrorist organization based around the charisma of a single man playing God ". Something tells me you weren't actually trying to play Fallout New Vegas properly and only took everything at face value.

Whether this is the best method to create civilization is up to debate. Personally, I think it would not be as effective in the West Coast since the society there uses modern societal standards and norms that wind up causing the people there to view the Legion as savage barbarians.

Caesar is uninterested in actually creating civilization, though and has actually gone out of his way to make the organization into one which is dependent on his cult of personality to function. We see this with Legate Lanius as the Legion degenerates into nothing more than another band of Raiders after his death, which is inevitable due to the lack of modern medicine for Caesar to get his brain tumor treated by. Even then, that's just a delay as Caesar's successor lacks all of the abilities which allowed him to build it. It's a play to his ego and all of the individuals agree with Caesar's death, the Legion is doomed.

The quotation of Arcade isn't me making a joke, it's me saying that the Legion has no resemblance to Rome. It's more akin to Sparta and even then, lacks some of that region's more egalitarian and cultured qualities.

Source of change? Don't make such a statement without proof.
Also, the NCR had proper tech at hand. They could keep historical records of such events even if the Vault Dweller's gender is not remembered (by the way, the canonical gender was male).

Only the Vault Dweller knows what happened in the Master's cathedral as the events at Shady Sands are just one of his many adventurers. It's very easy for historical details to get obscured by legend and truth telling. See Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, and so on.

Don't care, 4 is still bad.

Who gives a shit about 4? I'm talking about Nuka World.

 

[CT Phipps]

Because if we didn't do that this thread would be empty because Nuka World is shit.

Which would require you to actually talk to it. Share your opinion and reasoning.

 

[R.Graves]

I could talk about Fallout 3 and why I like it but why would I in a thread about Nuka World and how awesome it was. But yes, I know about all of its flaws. They don't in any way impede my love of the game.

Honest Hearts is fine for a DLC but it wouldn't have been great if it was a full game because it was just the size it needed to be.

It's a park, it's got some characters, a central dilemma.

Done.

Nuka world needed to be bigger but honest hearts was about the size it needed to be... The fuck dude? Zion doesn't make sense with its current size but you want a theme park to be blown up to have a map size of a full game?



But seriously a land which Caesar left behind being terrorized by raider groups has infinite more potential than a shitty theme park that has raiders for no reason.

 

[CerberusGate]

Caesar is uninterested in actually creating civilization, though and has actually gone out of his way to make the organization into one which is dependent on his cult of personality to function. We see this with Legate Lanius as the Legion degenerates into nothing more than another band of Raiders after his death, which is inevitable due to the lack of modern medicine for Caesar to get his brain tumor treated by. Even then, that's just a delay as Caesar's successor lacks all of the abilities which allowed him to build it. It's a play to his ego and all of the individuals agree with Caesar's death, the Legion is doomed.

The quotation of Arcade isn't me making a joke, it's me saying that the Legion has no resemblance to Rome. It's more akin to Sparta and even then, lacks some of that region's more egalitarian and cultured qualities.



Only the Vault Dweller knows what happened in the Master's cathedral as the events at Shady Sands are just one of his many adventurers. It's very easy for historical details to get obscured by legend and truth telling. See Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, and so on.



Who gives a shit about 4? I'm talking about Nuka World.

I don't care about Nuka World but you've been throwing a lot of unresearched bullshit around here so I'm derailing your thread to handle them.

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Caesar:

"The Kaibabs surrendered, then the Fredonians, then all the remaining tribes. Caesar was acutely aware that the root cause of all the problems were tribal identities, leading to internecine conflict and preventing any substantial recovery. He knew what had to be done. He had to erase all traces of tribal identities and replace them with a single, monolithic culture"

For Caesar, this wasn't just petty ambition. He sees himself as Caesar returning from his conquest of Gaul and the NCR as the corrupt Roman Senate. It's a textbook example of Hegelian dialectics, where the thesis and antithesis conflict, creating a synthesis when the conflict is resolved.[15]When the Legion conquers the NCR, it will be transformed from a republic crippled by bureaucracy, corruption, and gridlock into a highly efficient military dictatorship. The Legion will become a standing army protecting all the citizens of the new empire and the absolute power of its dictator.[16][17]

So, no. He was not some simplistic cult leader. His conquest of New Vegas is his attempts to create a foothold for the Legion as a legitimate nation.

From what I can tell, the Legion won't falter into a band of raiders that quickly. Sallow forced discipline on them whether they liked it or not and much of it stayed with them. Even Lanius still follows the practices of the Legion so the falling apart would not be immediate. At the very least, there would be a civil war between individual leaders on the will of Caesar.

As for the Cathedral, people knew of the Master and his plans. Some of the surviving mutants reintegrated into society and the smart ones like Marcus would clearly remember those times. It would not devolve into mere legend in such a time-span since people are still aware of the events of the past.

As an aside, you remind me of a rather dickish apologist I met on r/Fallout who tried to approach Fallout in a superficial manner. It may work there but here, you'd better be ready to deal with the consequences of being so superficial.

 

[CT Phipps]

Nuka world needed to be bigger but honest hearts was about the size it needed to be... The fuck dude? Zion doesn't make sense with its current size but you want a theme park to be blown up to have a map size of a full game?

Honest Hearts is my 3rd favorite DLC after Old World Blues and Nuka World.

But seriously a land which Caesar left behind being terrorized by raider groups has infinite more potential than a shitty theme park that has raiders for no reason.

It has Raiders because...Raiders took it over?

It's basically a giant-sized Paradise Falls, which I felt was one of the best creations of Fallout 3. Paradise Falls got expanded a little on with the events of the Pitt but the moral ambiguity there is one which I haven't seen often repeated and was restricted to one story beat. Paradise Falls was an evocative place but boiled down to massacring one little place. I wanted to get into Nuka World and the intricacies of how Raider culture would function when it's large enough to be a full-sized kingdom.

 

[Vergil]

It's basically a giant-sized Paradise Falls, which I felt was one of the best creations of Fallout 3.

 

[CT Phipps]

So, no. He was not some simplistic cult leader. His conquest of New Vegas is his attempts to create a foothold for the Legion as a legitimate nation.

Arcade already covered how he's attempting to turn New Vegas into Rome so he can replicate Caesar's life more closely by turning the Hoover Dam into his own personal Rubicon.

From what I can tell, the Legion won't falter into a band of raiders that quickly. Sallow forced discipline on them whether they liked it or not and much of it stayed with them. Even Lanius still follows the practices of the Legion so the falling apart would not be immediate. At the very least, there would be a civil war between individual leaders on the will of Caesar.

Caesar destroyed the local culture of individual tribes in order to instill his artificial culture and religion which emphasizes toxic masculinity, rejection of technology, the inferiority of women, and the delusion that Caesar is the Son of Mars.

I'm aware Caesar is a genius at enslaving people and minds. Nor do I doubt his tactical ability.

As for the Cathedral, people knew of the Master and his plans. Some of the surviving mutants reintegrated into society and the smart ones like Marcus would clearly remember those times. It would not devolve into mere legend in such a time-span since people are still aware of the events of the past.

Exaggeration of tales and history is a simple fact. Remember, the Vault Dweller was almost named a Saint before Tandi shot it down.

As an aside, you remind me of a rather dickish apologist I met on r/Fallout who tried to approach Fallout in a superficial manner. It may work there but here, you'd better be ready to deal with the consequences of being so superficial.

I've devoted years of my life to the game and its lore. Disagreement is not insult. Albeit, when people put me down, I tend to throw back.

I understand it's all in good fun, though. If I couldn't take it, I wouldn't be here.

 

[Vergil]

Caesar destroyed the local culture of individual tribes in order to instill his artificial culture and religion

What the fuck? How is it "artificial". Also are you really arguing that the local tribals who couldn't even maintain their weapons and spent their existence getting into petty strifes with one another were better than Caesar's unified Empire?

emphasizes toxic masculinity,

Holy fuck and I thought you couldn't get any more retarded.

 

[R.Graves]

Honest Hearts is my 3rd favoI wanted to get into Nuka World and the intricacies of how Raider culture would function when it's large enough to be a full-sized kingdom.

... So... You want to nuka world to be
... Caesar's legion.

 

[CerberusGate]

Arcade already covered how he's attempting to turn New Vegas into Rome so he can replicate Caesar's life more closely by turning the Hoover Dam into his own personal Rubicon.

Again, modern biased standards vs ancient biased standards. Neither are completely accurate so you using Arcade as a source is not accurate.

Caesar destroyed the local culture of individual tribes in order to instill his artificial culture and religion which emphasizes toxic masculinity, rejection of technology, the inferiority of women, and the delusion that Caesar is the Son of Mars.

I'm aware Caesar is a genius at enslaving people and minds. Nor do I doubt his tactical ability.

Ancient value dissonance. What better way to emulate the culture you are copying than to adapt almost everything about it? And way to be very sensitive to about masculinity...

Remember, the Vault Dweller was almost named a Saint before Tandi shot it down.

Source? You make these claims but I doubt their veracity.

I've devoted years of my life to the game and its lore. Disagreement is not insult. Albeit, when people put me down, I tend to throw back.

I understand it's all in good fun, though. If I couldn't take it, I wouldn't be here.

How simplistic of you to presume that we merely disagreed on Reddit. The apologist actually insulted me directly before bringing up points I could take down easily.

 

[CT Phipps]

... So... You want to nuka world to be
... Caesar's legion.

View attachment 5624

There seems to be a weird idea that I can't love to hate Caesar's Legion. They're the best villains in Fallout since the Enclave.

I TOTALLY would love Nuka World to have had as much history as Caesar's Legion.

Just because they're bad, doesn't mean they're not fun.

 

[CerberusGate]

I TOTALLY would love Nuka World to have had as much history as Caesar's Legion.

The fact still stands, it does not.

 

[Vergil]

There seems to be a weird idea that I can't love to hate Caesar's Legion. They're the best villains in Fallout since the Enclave.

>implying the Enclave were ever good
Even I admit they were fucking shitty 2D cartoon villains since Fallout 2.

 

[CT Phipps]

Again, modern biased standards vs ancient biased standards. Neither are completely accurate so you using Arcade as a source is not accurate.

Evil is a values judgement which varies by culture. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just exists in the opinion.

Ancient value dissonance. What better way to emulate the culture you are copying than to adapt almost everything about it? And way to be very sensitive to about masculinity...

I'm confused as my point is that Caesar's Legion has nothing to do with Rome.

How simplistic of you to presume that we merely disagreed on Reddit. The apologist actually insulted me directly before bringing up points I could take down easily.

I'm not talking about your conversation with them. I'm sure you were very polite to them.

The fact still stands, it does not.

Yeah.

Which is why I wish they'd made Nuka World its own game and given it the attention it deserves.

 

[R.Graves]

They're the best villains in Fallout since the Enclave.

The enclave were never that interesting a villain. The master was the better villain. Honestly were it not for the institute the enclave would be the worst villain fallout has had to date.

 

[CerberusGate]

I'm confused as my point is that Caesar's Legion has nothing to do with Rome.

That's actually a point worth debating. Whether the Legion would become more like Rome if they win at Hoover Dam? Whether the Legion would argue over whether to emulate more of Rome's practices based on what Sallow taught them or be more pragmatic about it?

The Legion is nuanced enough to bring up such discussion. Nuka World's raiders do not.

 

[R.Graves]

Yeah.

Which is why I wish they'd made Nuka World its own game and given it the attention it deserves.

No IP could ever have done enough wrong to deserve bethesda's attention.