Nuka World should have been its own game

[Jogre]

This is giving me PTSD Flashbacks to the time this was posted on Reddit, and I shit you not somebody actually commented:

"Y'Know, if parallel universes exist, there's a parallel universe where Tim Cain just made a new Arcanum Game, and announced settlement building and a voiced protagonist. How cool would that be?"

 

[CT Phipps]

Maybe im being melodramatic, but, I view Bethesda's purchase of the Fallout IP as one of the great tragedies of video game history. Just imagine what we could've had by this point, two iterations deep, if Fallout 3 & 4 had been developed by people who understood and respected the setting...

Its like we're living in the fucked up timeline.

By contrast, I think Fallout was basically dead as a franchise and has been restored to being one of the most popular games currently in production.

 

[DR_LaZer]

By contrast, I think Fallout was basically dead as a franchise and has been restored to being one of the most popular games currently in production.

How in the hell was it dead as a franchise?! It was still popular, last I checked. At least popular with the people who enjoyed it for what it was. The devs still wanted to make more of it. The only problem was when Interplay kicked the bucket the rights were auctioned off and sold to Bethesda because they had deeper pockets.

And even then, if all of what I just said is wrong, Fallout is still dead to me. It died the second Bethesda bought it. This is no longer Fallout, it's Rage lazy edition. Sure, it had a sweet swan song with NV, but it's finally given up. The franchise that we all know and love has been killed. And now it's a weekend at Fallouts situation with Bethesda toting around the dead body trying to convince us that it's still alive.

 

[CT Phipps]

How in the hell was it dead as a franchise?! It was still popular, last I checked. At least popular with the people who enjoyed it for what it was. The devs still wanted to make more of it. The only problem was when Interplay kicked the bucket the rights were auctioned off and sold to Bethesda because they had deeper pockets.

And even then, if all of what I just said is wrong, Fallout is still dead to me. It died the second Bethesda bought it. This is no longer Fallout, it's Rage lazy edition. Sure, it had a sweet swan song with NV, but it's finally given up. The franchise that we all know and love has been killed. And now it's a weekend at Fallouts situation with Bethesda toting around the dead body trying to convince us that it's still alive.

It was a classic game but the simple fact that its audience were those people who had played it on PC when it was out. Like Planescape Torment, it was a classic game which wasn't going to have any sequels. I think Bethesda introduced it to a new audience and had many other people check out the original games.

But that's just me.

Obviously, we disagree because I love the new games as well as the old.

 

[Crossfire]

By contrast, I think Fallout was basically dead as a franchise and has been restored to being one of the most popular games currently in production.

As far as I'm aware, there was a bidding war for the franchise and other interested parties lost to Bethesda. It makes you wonder what could of been.

 

[DR_LaZer]

It was a classic game but the simple fact that its audience were those people who had played it on PC when it was out. Like Planescape Torment, it was a classic game which wasn't going to have any sequels. I think Bethesda introduced it to a new audience and had many other people check out the original games.

But that's just me.

Obviously, we disagree because I love the new games as well as the old.

Wasn't going to have a sequel?! Are you high!?! What about the REAL Fallout 3 that was in development before Bethesda stole the rights from them?! Did you completely forget about that!?

 

[Crossfire]

It was a classic game but the simple fact that its audience were those people who had played it on PC when it was out. Like Planescape Torment, it was a classic game which wasn't going to have any sequels. I think Bethesda introduced it to a new audience and had many other people check out the original games.

But that's just me.

Obviously, we disagree because I love the new games as well as the old.

Fallout didnt need to be changed to bring in new fans. It needed to stay true to itself and build upon what made it so successful. Its like saying that the talented as fuck chef at xyz restaurant needs to start pumping out shitty fast food because McDonalds has the biggest mass appeal. How about NO. The games that appeal to Bethesda fans are a dime a fucking dozen. What WE love is rare and getting rarer mostly due to that shitty reasonong. A fallout sequel was in development. The franchise was far from dead. We were THIS close.

You really should have done your research before stepping into what is essentially the lion's den of pedantic fallout fans.

 

[3160b0]

You can even talk JHE to death in the same way as the Master and force him to destroy his home and forces.

Just because you can perform this action in both games doesn't mean they're the same in any way. Any idiot can pass the dice roll speech check in fo3 with low charisma and speech and literally just tell Eden "You need to destroy yourself and this base", and then he does. When I first did this I thought they were trying to say "look at the Enclave, they're so dumb they put a faulty AI in charge", but no, I'm supposed to take this seriously. It's not the same as The Master, neither is the BoS carbon copy. If you seriously think Bael is in any way similar to Cabbot other than where they stand relative to the BoS base, you're out of your mind.

 

[CT Phipps]

Fallout didnt need to be changed to bring in new fans. It needed to stay true to itself and build upon what made it so successful. Its like saying that the talented as fuck chef at xyz restaurant needs to start pumping out shitty fast food because McDonalds has the biggest mass appeal. How about NO. The games that appeal to Bethesda fans are a dime a fucking dozen. What WE love is rare and getting rarer mostly due to that shitty reasonong. A fallout sequel was in development. The franchise was far from dead. We were THIS close.

You really should have done your research before stepping into what is essentially the lion's den of pedantic fallout fans.

I'm aware of Van Buren. Whether it would have been completed, whether it would have made the splash as big as Fallout 3, or whether it would have remained a niche sequel is all in the air. Frankly, a lot of the elements in the game from being the Frozen Prisoner to the more neutral Caesar's Legion weren't ones I felt would have worked as well as F3.

I think Bethesda's experience with Fallout is unique. This is a debate over taste and enjoyment, though. I'm sorry you don't enjoy Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 or the gunslinger gameplay but I doubt either of us would be able to persuade the other of its enjoyment factor so I won't try to press the issue.

 

[cordelionreaver]

I also think Bethesda's experience with Fallout is unique.

So is being buried alive.

 

[Crossfire]

I'm aware of Van Buren. Whether it would have been completed, whether it would have made the splash as big as Fallout 3, or whether it would have remained a niche sequel is all in the air. Frankly, a lot of the elements in the game from being the Frozen Prisoner to the more neutral Caesar's Legion weren't ones I felt would have worked as well as F3.

I think Bethesda's experience with Fallout is unique. This is a debate over taste and enjoyment, though. I'm sorry you don't enjoy Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 or the gunslinger gameplay but I doubt either of us would be able to persuade the other of its enjoyment factor so I won't try to press the issue.

Ah, the old "quality is subjective" argument. Let me just be clear that I dont have a problem with the gameplay. FNV is on my top 5 and it shares an engine with FO3. What I don't enjoy about bethesdas iterations is the fanfic-tier writing, lack of true roleplaying and disrespect of established lore.

 

[CT Phipps]

Ah, the old "quality is subjective" argument. Let me just be clear that I dont have a problem with the gameplay. FNV is on my top 5 and it shares an engine with FO3. What I don't enjoy about bethesdas iterations is the fanfic-tier writing, lack of true roleplaying and disrespect of established lore.

In the case of Fanfic, I stand by the statement that F3 felt like a remake of 1 and 2 for new audiences. Certainly, it got a lot of fans interested in the game and while I'd played Fallout before, it reminded me how much I loved the original games and got me back into the fandom.

I also loved the DLC which were very much their own thing.

Fallout 4? Flawed but I think it showed a lot of willingness to experiment, which is something they're ironically crictized against.

 

[Crossfire]

In the case of Fanfic, I stand by the statement that F3 felt like a remake of 1 and 2 for new audiences. Certainly, it got a lot of fans interested in the game and while I'd played Fallout before, it reminded me how much I loved the original games and got me back into the fandom.

I also loved the DLC which were very much their own thing.

Fallout 4? Flawed but I think it showed a lot of willingness to experiment, which is something they're ironically crictized against.

If that's all Bethesda wanted to do with the Fallout franchise, they should've left it alone. Their bad fanfic of a game came at the cost of what could've been a worthy successor.

 

[CT Phipps]

If that's all Bethesda wanted to do with the Fallout franchise, they should've left it alone. Their bad fanfic of a game came at the cost of what could've been a worthy successor.

Frankly, I think New Vegas ended up much superior to Van Buren and reached a bigger audience.

 

[DR_LaZer]

In the case of Fanfic, I stand by the statement that F3 felt like a remake of 1 and 2 for new audiences. Certainly, it got a lot of fans interested in the game and while I'd played Fallout before, it reminded me how much I loved the original games and got me back into the fandom.

I also loved the DLC which were very much their own thing.

Fallout 4? Flawed but I think it showed a lot of willingness to experiment, which is something they're ironically crictized against.

First of all, if it's a reboot, then it shouldn't be called Fallout 3. That's dumb, soft reboot or not. Why even use the IP if you're going to change it so much to appeal to dumber audiences for more money? Just make your own thing. Stop ruining what was once good to get more money!

Secondly, what experimenting? The poor implementation of settlement and crafting systems to appeal to the crafting and building craze that started with minecraft? The poorly thought out Institute being their first completely new major faction, along with the minutemen and railroad, who're also poorly thought out?

Just because something is an experiment doesn't mean it's OK.

 

[DR_LaZer]

Frankly, I think New Vegas ended up much superior to Van Buren and reached a bigger audience.

I hate this phrase you're using "reach a bigger audience" in my mind, all I'm hearing is "casualized to get more money."

Things shouldn't appeal to everyone. That's not how it works. It needs to appeal to a certain demographic of people. And if other people don't like it, then fine. They shouldn't like it. Because it's not trying to make them like it. It's like saying R rated shows should tone themselves down to a PG rating so they can "appeal to a bigger audience." No one should do that.

 

[Crossfire]

Frankly, I think New Vegas ended up much superior to Van Buren and reached a bigger audience.

That's a meaningless statement as Van Buren was never finished and reached zero people.

 

[CT Phipps]

That's a meaningless statement as Van Buren was never finished and reached zero people.

I'm just judging from fan reaction and what I think of the writing of Van Buren as I've seen. Pretty much the majority of the game ended up in NV, Fallout 4, or Wasteland 2.

 

[Izak]

It was a classic game but the simple fact that its audience were those people who had played it on PC when it was out. Like Planescape Torment, it was a classic game which wasn't going to have any sequels.

Yes, who has ever heard of classic video games getting sequels after they've had their time in the sun? Especially Planescape Torment, no sequels for that one, no siree.

I think Bethesda's experience with Fallout is unique. This is a debate over taste and enjoyment, though. I'm sorry you don't enjoy Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 or the gunslinger gameplay but I doubt either of us would be able to persuade the other of its enjoyment factor so I won't try to press the issue.

Enjoying gameplay is irrelevant, Bethesda (and Interplay before them) took Fallout out of its element.

Frankly, I think New Vegas ended up much superior to Van Buren and reached a bigger audience.

Well, aside from some design documents and a buggy demo, we never saw Van Buren so I don't know why you'd say that.

Pretty much the majority of the game ended up in NV, Fallout 4, or Wasteland 2.

Literally none of the main plot is in any of those games (except maybe Wasteland 2, which I haven't played) and, for the most part, characters that originated in Van Buren but appear in New Vegas are wholly unrelated.

 

[Hassknecht]

@CT Phipps: For fuck's sake, use the goddamn edit button already instead of double-posting all the time!