NY police cleared in 50-bullet wedding day shooting

[Maphusio]

Yesterday police involved in the fatal shooting of Sean Bell were cleared of manslaughter charges. For those not familiar with the story...
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN2538183120080425?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0

So just remember those of a different ethnicity. If you are not aware an undercover cop is trying to stop your car and then pulls out a gun... He and his troopers will probably shoot you 50 times... Yes this includes reloading and firing again. One officer really wanted to make sure he was safe by firing over 20 rounds into the car.

So I ask, has the riot started in N.Y. yet? An interesting photo from yesterday.

 

[SuAside]

Yes this includes reloading and firing again. One officer really wanted to make sure he was safe by firing over 20 rounds into the car.

you shouldn't be so surprised.

belgian police even has a term for that: "Glocking".

two factors play in this:
1) police officers are unsure about how effective a 9mm bullet actually is. to be sure, they'll shoot several times.
2) psychological effect that says that while another policeman is firing, there must still be a threat, so you continue to fire as well. this happens in a split second. but in 2 or so seconds a 17 round magazine is empty, if fired quickly.

these factors have caused officers to empty full magazines and even reload and fire again into a perceived threat.

now, the problem with this particular shooting isn't that they shot over 50 times combined. hell, if the Bell dude was a dope dealer with 20 k's of H in his trunk, we'd all be cheering them on.

the problem is that they failed to make themself known as police officers and that their actions could easily be misinterpreted.

 

[Ravager69]

So all of this racism bullshit is going on again. Black folks are racist too, you know. And unfortunatly, situations like this happen from time to time, there's nothing to be done about this, no matter how fucked up it is. The thing that disgusts me are the people that are trying to use such tragedy to fuel their own agenda, be it fight with racism or anything else. Do any of you think that these cops were cold-blooded racists intent on slaughtering innocent black kids? This Sharpton guy seems suspicious to me.

 

[MrBumble]

Come on guys...

Three New York City detectives were found not guilty on Friday in the shooting death of an unarmed black man killed in a hail of 50 bullets

Don't you think that there's like a sort of problem in that statement ? Isn't it like, say, a little disproportionate ?

 

[Ravager69]

Yeah, but you can't count to understand the situation as you weren't there. Only thing we can do is assume what happened.

Plus, the moron in KKK hood in the picture pisses me off, he's a perfect example of a firestarter - people like him make black people believe the police is against them, trying to murder them all the time. Human race is a prejudiced specie, so there'll always be mistrust of diffrently looking\behaving people. Acceptation is a slow and difficult proccess and such riots and protest only fuel the hatred many black people feel for white people, in the end doing something entirely diffrent than it was meant to do.

 

[SuAside]

Come on guys...

Three New York City detectives were found not guilty on Friday in the shooting death of an unarmed black man killed in a hail of 50 bullets

Don't you think that there's like a sort of problem in that statement ? Isn't it like, say, a little disproportionate ?

the amount of bullets, matters none.
nor the fact that he is unarmed.

would it have been less of a tragedy if he had been shot on his wedding day, with a single shot to the head?

would it have been less of a tragedy if he had been shot 50 times, while Concealed Carrying (legally) a firearm, but totally innocent none the less, as he was getting his papers from his pocket, not his gun.

i don't find these scenarios any less tragic.

as long as we arm HUMANS with GUNS to protect us, there will be fuck ups like these. policemen are not superhuman. they get scared, they misinterpret movements, they are driven by emotion.

but i'm not saying that these people should be let off the hook for shooting an innocent man, in totally wrong circumstances...

 

[Ah-Teen]

LOOK AT THIS BLACK MAN! HE"S A DIRTY TRAITOR TO HIS RACE AND OBVIOUSLY HATES HIS RACE SO MUCH BECAUSE HE"S THE POLICE!!!!11!!!11!

Yeah, I'm tired of this oppressed black man bs. Yes it does happen every once in a while. I highly doubt that bigotry is anything compared to the bigotry toward some of us....

 

[MrBumble]

the amount of bullets, matters none.
nor the fact that he is unarmed.

would it have been less of a tragedy if he had been shot on his wedding day, with a single shot to the head?

would it have been less of a tragedy if he had been shot 50 times, while Concealed Carrying (legally) a firearm, but totally innocent none the less, as he was getting his papers from his pocket, not his gun.

i don't find these scenarios any less tragic.

as long as we arm HUMANS with GUNS to protect us, there will be fuck ups like these. policemen are not superhuman. they get scared, they misinterpret movements, they are driven by emotion.

but i'm not saying that these people should be let off the hook for shooting an innocent man, in totally wrong circumstances...

You are right, he's dead. One bullet or fifty = same result. The problem is, as you said, that the amount of bullets fired shows that these cops really lost their temper. It's true that this kind of things inevitably happen when you give weapons to the people you put in charge of your protection but how these cops got cleared of manslaughter charges is beyond my understanding. Yes, they were driven by emotion but manslaughter usually happens when you are driven by your emotions instead of your brain. 50 bullets is long enough to realize that you are doing something wrong.

 

[Ravager69]

Let's see....50\3 = 16.6 bullet per policeman (there was 3 of them, right?), that's a one magazine and a bit of a standard policeman 9mm weapon. Emptying a clip is a matter of seconds. Plus, we DON'T KNOW THESE GUYS. We have no idea what's their personality or temper like or why did they loose their temper. Of course it sucks that they were *cleared* of charges (no penalty at all for killing an innocent man?), but shit, slandering the whole police AND white people for a fuck up like this?? E.T. go home, goddamnit. Blame the police for corruption\incompetence, not racism.

 

[Wooz]

I read somewhere that two of the three cops that shot the dude are black.

 

[Madbringer]

The whole 'racism' angle is dodgy. I mean, c'mon, 20 years ago that would float. Now racism isn't such a big issue.. even in backwater countries like Poland, you'd be hard pressed to find a real racist nowadays. It's sad that people still play that card, that only makes people think and keep in their minds, this whole train of thought.

 

[Moving Target]

I disagree with your statement about racism not existing, Madbringer, but I do agree it's gotten much better.

This case just highlights the absurd amount of legal protections police have in this country. If police officers shoot someone who wasn't doing anything, or even get a bit twitchy on the trigger with someone who, it turns out, was doing something, there's never any legal repercussions for the officers. It's not just, and it's not right.

This case, I think, is a police issue, not a race issue. Come on, people, some of the cops were black too.

 

[Madbringer]

I disagree with your statement about racism not existing, Madbringer, but I do agree it's gotten much better.

Whoah, there. Ain't saying it does not exist (and if i made it sound like i meant that, let me be clear: it wasn't what i meant). What i did say, and what i meant, was, racism is not really that big of an issue. You get a bigot here and there, but people no longer give a toss about them, and that's the point.

 

[Malky]

Yeah, but you can't count to understand the situation as you weren't there. Only thing we can do is assume what happened.

Seriously? Are you retarded or something? The dudes fired FIFTY rounds into a car for absolutely no reason other than the fact that a black dude leaving a club might have been going to his trunk for a gun to shoot someone else. But then instead of going back inside the club, he got in his car and started to drive away, when the officer got in the fucking way and was sideswiped. There's no excuse for that, especially when a police officer is trained only to fire his weapon in self defense or the defense of another. To simply empty a gun that holds 17+1 and then reload only to do it all over again (while your buddies are lighting up the car as well) is just absurd, unless you're trying to take out Tony Montana. A car scraping up against your fucking pants is no reason to fire fifty shots.

Plus, the moron in KKK hood in the picture pisses me off, he's a perfect example of a firestarter - people like him make black people believe the police is against them, trying to murder them all the time.

Uh, do you live in America? That's really not too far off from the way things are.

Human race is a prejudiced specie, so there'll always be mistrust of diffrently looking\behaving people. Acceptation is a slow and difficult proccess and such riots and protest only fuel the hatred many black people feel for white people, in the end doing something entirely diffrent than it was meant to do.

"Acceptation" isn't a word, and to make a point that we should simply lie down and be "okay" with discrimination is an absurd and irrational point to make, especially when we're talking about people who get paid to serve and protect the innocent, regardless of race or creed. I'm not saying the killings were necessarily inspired by race, just making a point that you're... well, an idiot.

You are completely right about the "black people can be racist too" thing. I have seen plenty of instances of black police officers being complete and total dicks to other black folks both in my day to day life and on the news.

This Sharpton guy seems suspicious to me.

^^^ Quoting for posterity.

Again, I'm not trying to say that this was a racism inspired murder, as Wooz pointed out - two of the police officers were African-American. It just blows my mind that you actually think what they did is reasonable.

The whole 'racism' angle is dodgy. I mean, c'mon, 20 years ago that would float. Now racism isn't such a big issue..

I disagree with your statement about racism not existing, Madbringer, but I do agree it's gotten much better.

You guys are both being facetious, right?

 

[Ravager69]

Malky, just what the hell are you trying to say?? In a minute you'll say I approve of what they did....perhaps it isn't me who is retarded here.

All I'm saying is that we can't hope to understand the situation (WERE you there?), because it always seems diffrent when someone else describes it than it was in the reality. Grotesque situations happen all the time. I've seen no video of the accident and all I have is this news from prejudiced pricks trying to pin "RACISTS" lables on the cops that were responsible. Trust me, sometimes the right words can change the outlook of the whole situation.

Isn't it unfair to use such tragedy to fuel a war against white people?? The cops are responsible for killing an innocent human being because they overreacted, not of slaughtering a black man because they are blood-thirsty racists, goddamnit, and the court is guilty of not doing it's job right, but it's nothing about skin colour. Of course I think that it isn't right for them to get away with it, but that's a completly diffrent story. I am not justyfing them in any way, I'm saying that passing judgement here is a tricky thing, because there will always be people trying to manipulate others using such situations.

And no offense, but fuck you for the "acceptation". I'm not a native speaker nor do I have the desire to check *every* word in the dictionary (even though I do it often), so I may make mistakes. I wonder how well would you fare trying to speak *my* language.

 

[Madbringer]

You guys are both being facetious, right?

No. Are you?

 

[Sander]

The whole 'racism' angle is dodgy. I mean, c'mon, 20 years ago that would float. Now racism isn't such a big issue..

I disagree with your statement about racism not existing, Madbringer, but I do agree it's gotten much better.

You guys are both being facetious, right?

No, they're being European. Where racism really isn't that big of an issue anymore.

 

[SuAside]

Let's see....50\3 = 16.6 bullet per policeman (there was 3 of them, right?), that's a one magazine and a bit of a standard policeman 9mm weapon.

if i recall correctly, standard issue for NYC cops is a Glock 17 (or was it 19?)
so 17 rounds minimum.

Emptying a clip is a matter of seconds.

it's called a magazine.

a clip is what you use to (fast)load a detached magazine, or an internal magazine.

and in panic, it's really not much of a feat to empty such a pistol in 2 or 3 seconds flat.

I read somewhere that two of the three cops that shot the dude are black.

and judging by the picture of 2 of them i saw, seriously potbellied donutmunching deskjockeys.

 

[Malky]

All I'm saying is that we can't hope to understand the situation (WERE you there?), because it always seems diffrent when someone else describes it than it was in the reality. Grotesque situations happen all the time. I've seen no video of the accident and all I have is this news from prejudiced pricks trying to pin "RACISTS" lables on the cops that were responsible. Trust me, sometimes the right words can change the outlook of the whole situation.

Again, I'm not trying to claim the racist angle, but to simply write off the incident by saying "well, we weren't there" is absolute bullshit. It's pretty obvious what happened via eyewitness accounts and the testimony of the officers in question.

One of them had a hunch. He got in the way of a drunk guy driving and was apparently grazed by the vehicle. He opened fire. This is where the problem comes in. At no time was his life in danger, and at no time did he identify himself as a police officer. He fired on the vehicle and it's passengers regardless, and then two other officers opened fire without any knowledge of what was going on aside from the fact that one of their own was shooting at something. The incompetence of the officers is unbelievable, and it's ridiculous that their case should be dismissed when they're clearly and without a doubt murderers. Race is a non issue. The shot defenseless people for no justifiable reason.

I really do wonder how the outcome of this trial would've been altered had it been decided by a jury.

And no offense, but fuck you for the "acceptation". I'm not a native speaker nor do I have the desire to check *every* word in the dictionary (even though I do it often), so I may make mistakes. I wonder how well would you fare trying to speak *my* language.

Probably pretty well, I'm awesome.

if i recall correctly, standard issue for NYC cops is a Glock 17 (or was it 19?)
so 17 rounds minimum.

Glock 19 in .40 caliber tends to be the standard issue for most police forces in America. Again, it might not take two or three seconds to empty a handgun into something, but someone who is trained to use a weapon (and instructed to use it in self defense) has no reason to empty two magazines worth of .40 into anything. The only time I could ever think of doing that is if I wanted the dude so dead that he would wake the fuck up and die again.

 

[Ah-Teen]

if i recall correctly, standard issue for NYC cops is a Glock 17 (or was it 19?)
so 17 rounds minimum.

Glock 19 in .40 caliber tends to be the standard issue for most police forces in America. Again, it might not take two or three seconds to empty a handgun into something, but someone who is trained to use a weapon (and instructed to use it in self defense) has no reason to empty two magazines worth of .40 into anything. The only time I could ever think of doing that is if I wanted the dude so dead that he would wake the fuck up and die again.

Trained means you don't fire unless you feel your life is in danger. Trained means you don't stop firing until you feel your life isn't in danger.

Fallacy of training argument is that somehow training makes the police gods right hand with their pistol. The truth is 5 shots miss for every shot that hits fired from a policeman's sidearm statistically.

Consider that they are trained that if they need to shoot, they will shoot to kill. IE until they stop twitching.

If they aren't constantly training for shooting, they will tend to spend far more bullets, say a whole magazine.

We all like to think the police are gods of enforcing the law. Guess what, they are human. Subject to poor decisions and mistakes and panicking.