NY police cleared in 50-bullet wedding day shooting

[SuAside]

Glock 19 in .40 caliber tends to be the standard issue for most police forces in America. Again, it might not take two or three seconds to empty a handgun into something, but someone who is trained to use a weapon (and instructed to use it in self defense) has no reason to empty two magazines worth of .40 into anything. The only time I could ever think of doing that is if I wanted the dude so dead that he would wake the fuck up and die again.

NYPD picked their standard issue before .40S&W had become mainstream. so it's indeed Glock 17 in 9x19mm, i checked.

and Malky, unless you actually ever had to draw a weapon in self-defense or have served in your country in a way where you know you can be attacked at any time, you'll never really know how you'll react in a stress situation.

it happens more than once that a cop pushed over the edge empties a weapon and keeps on pulling the trigger, even though the gun has been emptied.

also remember that NYPD has a lower than 15% hit ratio in gunfights.

(but i'm once again not trying to say the people should be punished. i'm however annoyed that you take the high ground so easily and speak of things you likely have no real experience with.)

 

[Ravager69]

(but i'm once again not trying to say the people should be punished. i'm however annoyed that you take the high ground so easily and speak of things you likely have no real experience with.)

My thought exactly.

I meant that you can never be *sure* of what happened, you weren't in the guy's head, you don't know why he acted this way, not another. Sure he fucked up, sure it's a tragedy for the family, sure it sucks that they weren't punished, but don't go around judging people you've never met.

My point is, as it was from the start, that this whole situation is absolutly not about racism, and that I don't hate them for what they did. I just feel sorry for both the victim's family and the guys that shot him, because it must be an awful feeling knowing that you killed an innocent man (I don't justify them however). No righteous anger and shit.

 

[Malky]

and Malky, unless you actually ever had to draw a weapon in self-defense or have served in your country in a way where you know you can be attacked at any time, you'll never really know how you'll react in a stress situation.

it happens more than once that a cop pushed over the edge empties a weapon and keeps on pulling the trigger, even though the gun has been emptied.

You raise a valid point, but the difference between Joe So-and-So drawing his weapon in self defense and this incident is pretty large. The problem with this situation is that there was no need for the officer to draw his weapon to begin with. Furthermore, all officers go through rigorous mental and physical training in the use of firearms. There's no reason to put your finger on the trigger unless you're going to use the weapon, and there's no reason to do that unless you're fired upon first or feel that you will be. This was a guy in his car driving away from a club. Not a guy on the street with an AK 47 pointed at some lady's back.

I realize it's easy to empty a gun, and takes a matter of seconds, but restraint and caution are the first things that police officers should take into account when they draw their firearms. These police officers considered neither.

 

[Moving Target]

The whole 'racism' angle is dodgy. I mean, c'mon, 20 years ago that would float. Now racism isn't such a big issue..

I disagree with your statement about racism not existing, Madbringer, but I do agree it's gotten much better.

You guys are both being facetious, right?

No, they're being European. Where racism really isn't that big of an issue anymore.

No, I'm being misunderstood, not European.

I'm trying to say that things have been getting better. Not good, not even fair. Still horrendous, actually. Just not AS BAD as it was, say, 25 years ago.

 

[Thrawn]

I like to paint ball. I have this rule. When I see someone, I open fire and I continue firing until they give up. I may fire 15 or 20 shots off in 2 or 3 seconds and if there is any doubt that the threat remains, I continue firing.

That is how you are supposed to do it. As far as I know the difference between firing 1 shot at threat and firing 50 is absolutely nothing and as long as the threat remains, you keep firing.

I hate to say it, but I almost find humor in people’s responses to stuff like this. They hear “Black man shot 50 times on wedding day by police” and they immediately assume racism. Some of them don’t even take the time to look into the story. 2 out of 3 of the police were black, so unless they hate themselves, I am pretty sure it isn’t a matter of racism.

The next response people always have is “The cops didn’t even do X”. Well, actually the cops claim they did identify them selves and tell the deceased to stop or what ever. The friends of the deceased say this never happened. For some reason people always seem to side with the non-cops even though in this case most of them had criminal records, some of which committed violent crimes.

I mean seriously, would you really take the word of the felons over the word of the officers?

 

[SuAside]

You raise a valid point, but the difference between Joe So-and-So drawing his weapon in self defense and this incident is pretty large.

really?

i'm sure they view what they did as self-defense on the moment they acted. turned out they were wrong of course, but still.

Furthermore, all officers go through rigorous mental and physical training in the use of firearms.

haha. wow.

where do you think you live? Perfectistan?

seriously, our cops here have very long and fairly decent pistol training.
yet, all the cops i know personally have said that they had to go out to learn more for themself (talking about things like practical shooting competitions and so on). what they were taught was not enough.

as for the rigorous mental training? i don't even know where to start.

what are you going to say next? how U.S. Marines are continuously assisted by psychologists to cope with the stress and the carnage?

i don't mean to make fun of you Malky, but what you're saying is just so far away from what i've seen and heard.

 

[Malky]

i don't mean to make fun of you Malky, but what you're saying is just so far away from what i've seen and heard.

That's fine, and that's your experience. I have several police officers in my family and a couple of good friends on the force here in town and they all seem to agree with me. I was actually talking to my buddy about a similar subject the other night. So I guess our personal experience with police officers and police training varies a bit.

really?

i'm sure they view what they did as self-defense on the moment they acted. turned out they were wrong of course, but still.

Again, a car brushing up against you is nothing you need a handgun to defend yourself from.

 

[Maphusio]

I should be banned from creating controversial topics... Or dubbed NMA Gossip king... John would not get jealous would he?!

 

[Ah-Teen]

I should be banned from creating controversial topics... Or dubbed NMA Gossip king... John would not get jealous would he?!

You should. We like our little community nice and peaceful. NOW GET BACK IN LINE OR GTFO!

 

[SuAside]

That's fine, and that's your experience. I have several police officers in my family and a couple of good friends on the force here in town and they all seem to agree with me. I was actually talking to my buddy about a similar subject the other night. So I guess our personal experience with police officers and police training varies a bit.

well, Virginia aint NYC. (nor is Belgium USA either, obviously)

Again, a car brushing up against you is nothing you need a handgun to defend yourself from.

no doubt there. but not all people can just wet their pants and swim in it rather than flipping out.

 

[Malky]

well, Virginia aint NYC. (nor is Belgium USA either, obviously)

Richmond has a higher murder rate than New York City. NYC is actually one of the safest big cities to live in.

 

[Ah-Teen]

well, Virginia aint NYC. (nor is Belgium USA either, obviously)

Richmond has a higher murder rate than New York City. NYC is actually one of the safest big cities to live in.

In what way? Don't say crime, cause I'll rattle off how many cities are more dangerous. There wont be alot.

 

[Deleted member 53669]

Umm, NYC is like a eutopia now compared to other U.S. cities.

 

[whirlingdervish]

also remember that NYPD has a lower than 15% hit ratio in gunfights.

If you were unable to drive a car effectively would you expect to be able to get a job as a bus driver? Would it be safe for the people you are serving for you to be an incompetent worker in control of a very deadly device?


That 15% means that on average they can't hit anything with less than 5 bullets from within the short effective range of a pistol.

This tells me that they shouldn't have been armed with pistols in the first place, and this would not have happened.

Don't get me wrong, I believe anyone who is sane and capable of safely using a firearm should be able to do so, but it is their JOB to protect people and safely and effectively use a firearm to do so, in combat style situations.

If they can't do both then they need not be active duty police officers.

We can reach this conclusion without even bringing up that they are supposedly trained to fire 2-3 times and then re-assess the threat potential of the target. (a procedure that only one of the 3 shooters followed)

Competent police officers should be able to carry and use a firearm.

The incompetent ones like these douchebags who had to shoot a car 50 times to kill one man and wound two others, should not be armed with anything but a desk and a pen and possibly a nightstick. (once it had been verified that they could correctly use them, of course)

 

[Ah-Teen]

Umm, NYC is like a eutopia now compared to other U.S. cities.

I highly doubt that. Show me numbers and references. From the little I've seen, it looks like a numbers game to make it look like ny is safer than it has been in the past.

Its really common to do that.

I might add, that the whole nation's crime rate has been consistently dropping everywhere. Since the sixties.

 

[Stag]

I'm not sure if it really is worse in Richmond than in NYC, but I'm aware of several shootings in recent times, and cops patrol my neighborhood nightly. It's not really a great place...

 

[Malky]

I'm not sure if it really is worse in Richmond than in NYC, but I'm aware of several shootings in recent times, and cops patrol my neighborhood nightly. It's not really a great place...

Are you talking about RVA or New York?

Murder rate statistics (as of '05): http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934323.html

Richmond is and has always been one of the most dangerous cities in America for violent crimes. New York City is statistically the safest "major" city to live in. I'll come back and cite some sources later, I kind of lost the website.

 

[SuAside]

jezus! those murder rates boggle my mind...

hard to believe that stuff is real.

 

[Stag]

Richmond, homedizzle.

Kinda funny that two Richmonds are in the top ten.

 

[Malky]

Richmond, homedizzle.

Kinda funny that two Richmonds are in the top ten.

What up! I might be moving there soon.