Oblivion: Actual Mileage May Vary

[Briosafreak]

I don't know Montez, a set of good quests in the midlle of everything that i now profoundly dislike doesn't seem a hopefull prospect to me...

 

[Montez]

Yeah, true enough. I just really want Fallout 3 to be good, so I'm grasping at any straw Oblivion offers that helps me believe it will be.

 

[Roshambo]

Yeah, true enough. I just really want Fallout 3 to be good, so I'm grasping at any straw Oblivion offers that helps me believe it will be.

The same here for wanting Fallout 3 to be good, as I've publicly stated about BioWare and others, I'd like for them to prove me wrong. Nothing would make me happier than if I were proven wrong and somehow Bethesda could develop a good, faithful CRPG, because that would mean that they did things right and actually offered a CRPG.

So far, they seem to be doing anything but that, so I don't see why I should be expecting a pig to lay a golden egg.

 

[TheWesDude]

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The same here for wanting Fallout 3 to be good, as I've publicly stated about BioWare and others, I'd like for them to prove me wrong. Nothing would make me happier than if I were proven wrong and somehow Bethesda could develop a good, faithful CRPG, because that would mean that they did things right and actually offered a CRPG.
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Rosh:

what if they did make a kick ass sequel to fallout thats true to the series...

what does that say about the TES series? purposefully fucked up? made for the lowest denominator?

how could that be explained with the fucked up AI?

 

[Roshambo]

what if they did make a kick ass sequel to fallout thats true to the series...

what does that say about the TES series? purposefully fucked up? made for the lowest denominator?

At that, I would have to come to that conclusion. TES was redesigned for Lowest Common Denominator since Morrowind with the X-Brick development ported to PC (as Daggerfall wasn't really designed that way), and they decided to do a good job to revitalize the core CRPG genre. If they do it right, they could have people talking about the solid design as Fallout was the idol of many designers, with the media notice, they already have word of mouth and already people expect Fallout 3 to be like the previous incarnations, as the sell-outs of Fallout have been known for quite a while.

If they do things right, then it's a success. If they "trendy" it, then they're whores. Simple logic gate equasion, there.

how could that be explained with the fucked up AI?

The troubleshooter in me puts that and many other piece of evidence together with the previous and finds that it likely isn't just their design, it's fundamentally flawed at a technical level designed to offer flash to hide cut corners work. That the Dark Brotherhood and a couple of other quests don't suck ass means that the design was not kept to a standard level, only that it was initially crappy and a few items stand out. The non-scaling of the guards' armor and other effects points out a short-sightedness in their design, as does the "immersion" claim with the wolves leaving to be replaced by bears. Many other issues point to the same indication.

It shows that they spend more attention to designing their hype than designing their game.

 

[TheWesDude]

at least one thing can be said, at least they put this shit out for oblivion so they can actually fix it for FO3.

and they had better fix it for FO3.

 

[SuAside]

or what, TheWesDude?

FO fans will DDoS the Bethsoft webby & forums? FO3 will sell, even if the original fanbase doesnt buy into the cheap propaganda. PR and *shiny* is more important than the actual game, you know.

make a true sequel, catering to the real fans and make a game to remember and a nice amount of cash.

or

make The Elder Vaults: Sellout and bring in the money garbage trucks at a time, all from awesome PR and *shiny* graphics.

 

[Brother None]

as does the "immersion" claim with the wolves leaving to be replaced by bears.

Don't forget the lions!

Oblivion = Kenya. Got lions and tigers!

SuAside, the problem with that is that the interest in Fallout 3 within the current TES fanbase is probably not that high. A lot of PR and hype potentional does lie with the fanbase, it's not as easy to kick it in the nuts as you make it sound. Remember Tactics.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

Not really, Kharn. Fanbois at the TES forum who have never played Fallout (or, indeed, have played it but didn't like it) are creaming their pants at the prospect of Bethesdas "Oblivionzorz wit gunzorz!!".

 

[Tannhauser]

Kotario and anyone else who finished them, I'd be interested to hear your opinions as well. Out of everything in Oblivion they are pretty much the only set of quests and NPC's that give me some hope for Fallout 3 (as far as writing and atmosphere goes, at least).

As a belated response to the question, I found the quality to be inconsistent. The first two thirds of the Dark Brotherhood quest-line mark some of the best quests of the game, while the last third is rather poor.

A spoiler warning for anyone who cares.

The various NPCs in the Dark Sanctuary have some of the best dialogue in the games, the fact that you could ask them for advice on each mission (and receive different answers depending on the personality of the NPC) gives them much more life than pretty much anyone else. I also thought LaChance was a good character, even in a minimalist role ("Brother, I do not spread rumors, I create them." is a good response to the generic rumor dialogue option). After the Cleansing, the quests become much less interesting, the rest of the quests are "Go here, kill him." The only quest of note is where there is the Proto-Lich, where you have to steal the hour-glass to kill him, the rest of the quests are so much more simple. A perfect example is the matron of the Draconis family who unknowingly gives you a list of all the people you need to kill, such a banal device to move the quest along.

In addition, after that point, the entire Dark Brotherhood seems to be insanely incompetent, given the events of the Cleansing on. Which leads me to my greatest peeve about the quests on Oblivion: that you are never presented with real choices. In the final quest for the Dark Brotherhood, you are given the opportunity to discover exactly who the traitor is (if you drop the head of 'Mother' in the farm house, the traitor makes himself obvious), but it doesn't change a thing. You can't kill him until he betrays everyone, nor can you tell any of the other Speakers.

The quest which annoyed me most on this point was the Mages quest to talk to the Count of Skingrad. The fact that the Steward tells you that you had to meet the Count outside of town at one in the morning made the situation obviously a trap. Yet, I snuck into the Count's chambers to talk to him (which didn't work, he won't talk to you). Since there was no other option, I 'fell' into the trap, after it was over the Count starts to berate my character for being so stupid as to fall for the trap. More than anything else in Oblivion, that annoyed the hell out of me.

 

[Montez]

Since there was no other option, I 'fell' into the trap, after it was over the Count starts to berate my character for being so stupid as to fall for the trap. More than anything else in Oblivion, that annoyed the hell out of me.

Same thing here. I was pretty powerful at the point I did it, so the second the trap was sprung I killed the guys before the count even showed up. He showed up after the carnage and suggested that I thank him for saving my life. I was so confused that at first I thought he was thanking me for saving his life but the dialogue got screwed up, then I thought he was joking around..... then I realized that he was supposed to show up and kill these guys and the designers didn't plan for the extremely likely scenario that the player character would take care of things on his own.

Another favorite of mine is talking with people after I've gotten pretty far along in the game:

"Oh my goodness, you're the hero of Kvatch! I saw your fight against the Grey Prince in the arena! You destroyed that Oblivion Gate outside of town! Any friend of Martin's is a friend of mine!"
"Tell me about buying a house/random npc/quest."
"Sorry, but I don't trust you enough to talk about that."
"Oh, that's ok. I mean, I only saved your city as well as the entire world, but I guess I can understand how you could still be suspicious. Maybe 8 gold pieces would prove my trustworthiness?"
"Oh, you're too kind!" *Disposition maxed, gives info*