"Oh, you just need the right build!"

Tagaziel said:
what

Hacking is pretty much <3 throughout the game and essential for stealth. Are you sure you're talking about Human Revolution?
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Yes, Human Revolution.

Every important hacking thing can be bypassed, either punching through walls, or simply killing the braindead AI.

Stealth in that game is a self imposed challenge, the starting handgun can 2 hit headshot Ogres.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Every important hacking thing can be bypassed, either punching through walls, or simply killing the braindead AI.
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Yes, it's called "giving the player options," rather than forcing them to either pick the correct build or go fuck themselves. It's been a staple of Deus Ex games since the very first one.
 
Tagaziel said:
Yes, it's called "giving the player options," rather than forcing them to either pick the correct build or go fuck themselves. It's been a staple of Deus Ex games since the very first one.
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This reminds me of another (somewhat) related argument I've heard, particulary from Rich Evans and Jack from Pre-Rec, particulary in Dishonered - that since the combat route doesn't really incur any penalties, the stealth route becomes a chore and can be bypassed. I played HR myself, I never got the wall thing, so I don't know. It could all amount to the counter to this very thread subject that 'too many paths with no real distinctions blurs into one path' in the end.
 
Tagaziel said:
Yes, it's called "giving the player options," rather than forcing them to either pick the correct build or go fuck themselves. It's been a staple of Deus Ex games since the very first one.
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Except that HR FORCES a combat build, due to the bosses only being killable by shooting them.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Except that HR FORCES a combat build, due to the bosses only being killable by shooting them.
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Anyone not playing the Director's Cut at this point only has themselves to blame.

Danuis said:
This reminds me of another (somewhat) related argument I've heard, particulary from Rich Evans and Jack from Pre-Rec, particulary in Dishonered - that since the combat route doesn't really incur any penalties, the stealth route becomes a chore and can be bypassed. I played HR myself, I never got the wall thing, so I don't know. It could all amount to the counter to this very thread subject that 'too many paths with no real distinctions blurs into one path' in the end.
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I replayed Human Revolution about three or four times (still love it) and the paths have a very distinct feeling... The problem might be the fact that options designed to reward unconventional thinking are misinterpreted as hand-holding or frictionless gaming. Curiously, if you apply that same logic to the first DX, then it is also a bad game with no distinct paths, from the very first map.
 
Tagaziel said:
Anyone not playing the Director's Cut at this point only has themselves to blame.
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I bought HR on the PS3, in good faith that it'd be a good game.

HR put the company on my gaming blacklist.

I then pirated Directors Cut, and the game is STILL trash.

No, hacking a turret to kill the boss isn't stealth, its still flat out murder.

What are their motives? Who are they?

The game basically goes "here's an enemy who is immune to headshots and has ten times as much health, have fun".

Sure they appeared in the beginining, but fuck if I know who they are, Tyrants or some shit.

Expecting people to pay money for something they SHOULD HAVE GOT IN THE FIRST PLACE is ridiculous.

Its why I hate gaming, there's no responsibility for developers anymore.

"Game is shit, obviously the consumers didn't throw enough money at it"

"Game is good, obviously consumers need to throw money at it"
 
You think the game it's trash. It's not trash.

Big difference.

That said, the boss fights are much better in Mankind Divided, because the company didn't have to outsource them.

Now... Are you seriously complaining that a group of mysterious assassins leaving you for dead is mysterious? You not knowing who they are is kind of the point. Do you also whine about not immediately knowing who the killer is in novels?
 
Tagaziel said:
You think the game it's trash. It's not trash.
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Braindead AI.

Artificially influenced difficulty. (No, giving enemies infinite ammo, drop 1 ammo on their corpse, and make a street thug take 5 shots to the chest to kill is not difficulty, its blatant cheating, even then the game is piss easy)

Endingtron 3000 (HAHAHAHAHAHA).

Pathetic bosses.

Nothing has consequences, you can punch out the entirity of detroit and nothing happens.

Etc.

Trash.

Into the garbage it goes.

Tagaziel said:
That said, the boss fights are much better in Mankind Divided, because the company didn't have to outsource them.
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Moar shekels for muh fav game company plz, I promise it will be good this time!

Nah, I might pirate it in the future though.

Oh wait, its also trash.

Microtransactions and exclusive day 1 DLC.

Tagaziel said:
Now... Are you seriously complaining that a group of mysterious assassins leaving you for dead is mysterious? You not knowing who they are is kind of the point. Do you also whine about not immediately knowing who the killer is in novels?
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For fuck's sake, you NEVER find out anything about the cunts.

Just at the end of every level they stand there going "Plz kill meh to continue the plot", and they die even if you non-lethal them to 0 HP.

They had massive potential to have dialogue with them, to have benefits to taking them out non-lethally, or even with stealth.

But noooope, shoot them until they die, ded.

I fucking hate most novels because they are also trash.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Except that HR FORCES a combat build, due to the bosses only being killable by shooting them.
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So does first DX expect you to kill bosses (lame killphrases or not) if you put it that way, you just run away from them until the end where you have to kill an ebil wizard who doesn't do anything (endingtron 228 with running around the map) that much and his sidekick you ran from previously. Not that it's a good argument but still so you know, it's a staple mistake in DX gamedesign.
The only game in a series that did give you freedom in your actions is Invisible War, and guess what? It's a pile of shit.
 
0wing said:
So does first DX expect you to kill bosses (lame killphrases or not) if you put it that way, you just run away from them until the end where you have to kill an ebil wizard who doesn't do anything (endingtron 228 with running around the map) that much and his sidekick you ran from previously. Not that it's a good argument but still so you know, it's a staple mistake in DX gamedesign.
The only game in a series that did give you freedom in your actions is Invisible War, and guess what? It's a pile of shit.
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And? Who would have guessed the original DX has not aged well?
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
And? Who would have guessed the original DX has not aged well?
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No, it have aged quite well, better than Thief. (at least if you overlook the action-figures look-alikes for a characters)
Your argument about HR's bosses just didn't age quite well, or to say the truth, invalid.
 
0wing said:
No, it have aged quite well, better than Thief. (at least if you overlook the action-figures look-alikes for a characters)
Your argument about HR's bosses just didn't age quite well, or to say the truth, invalid.
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The bosses and combat of the original DX has massively dated badly.

Great game for its time, nowadays its showing its age.

I can look past its graphics, but when the gameplay becomes more and more clunky, I cannot say I am a fan.

Great story, but the bosses SUCK.

I love the kill codes though.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
The bosses and combat of the original DX has massively dated badly.
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It's realistic. The unspent EXP and a sheet of untrained skills is a numeric equivalent of a student who spent his 5 years in the academy catching flies and staring at a ceiling and the overall inability to learn. In a brute but working way. This is one of the few spots where original DX beats HR and MD design.
And don't expect to run away from responsibilities even if in a video game.

But to be completely true, GMDX v9.0 makes the game even better.
 
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0wing said:
It's realistic. The unspent EXP and a sheet of untrained skills is a numeric equivalent of a student who spent his 5 years in the academy catching flies and staring at a ceiling and the overall inability to learn. In a brute but working way. This is one of the few spots where original DX beats HR and MD design.
And don't expect to run away from responsibilities even if in a video game.

But to be completely true, GMDX v9.0 makes the game even better.
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It breaks my suspension of disbelief when a nanoaugmented supersoldier supposed to be grossly superior to even mechanical augmented people, needs to learn how to operate a fucking firearm or SWORD.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
It breaks my suspension of disbelief when a nanoaugmented supersoldier supposed to be grossly superior to even mechanical augmented people, needs to learn how to operate a fucking firearm or SWORD.
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Deus Ex is not fucking Nier: Shitomata or Matrix, nor Prey 2017, you can't just install a chip or an upgrade to suddenly know how to professionally operate the GEP GUN or whimsical Plasma Rifle. You have to LEARN first. If anything, your concept of upgrades should break the immersion.

And have you ever played the game not on Youtube? Nanoaugmentations basically better in a way that the host don't need to cut off his limbs to have ones.
 
0wing said:
Deus Ex is not fucking Nier: Shitomata or Matrix, nor Prey 2017, you can't just install a chip or an upgrade to suddenly know how to professionally operate the GEP GUN or whimsical Plasma Rifle. You have to LEARN first. If anything, your concept of upgrades should break the immersion.
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Dude.

Not talking about plasma rifles and future rocket launchers.

A sword.

Literally a sword.
latest


Its not even a complex weapon, a basic on and off switch.
 
ThatZenoGuy said:
Dude.

Not talking about plasma rifles and future rocket launchers.

A sword.

Literally a sword.
latest


Its not even a complex weapon, a basic on and off switch.
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You can swing a sword even if you are untrained. Literally speaking you might also swing a sword, but do it as a professional swordsman? I don't think so.

BTW, nanoswords are bit more complicated weapon, since it's more akin to a nonexistent lightsaber and different techniques must be applied.
 
0wing said:
You can swing a sword even if you are untrained. Literally speaking you might also swing a sword, but do it as a professional swordsman? I don't think so.

BTW, nanoswords are bit more complicated weapon, since it's more akin to a nonexistent lightsaber and different techniques must be applied.
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The skills for the uber advanced on and off switch dragon sword is the same as the humble baton.

This is what makes me like Fallout, and not Deus Ex.

Sure, make skills make you more accurate, more easily hitting targets.

But damage is damage.

Whacking someone upside the head with a brick will do the same amount of damage no matter how many times you've done it in the past.
 
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