"Oh, you just need the right build!"

PlanHex said:
Both Daratan and Aurelian can lead into the Crassus line (amongst other things, like being guildless), you can't really start out with the Crassus stuff, probably since it's all in the final city so it wouldn't work with the 3 act/city structure of the game. It's just a defection really.

I'm not sure what you're referring to here at all.
Save Gaelius?
Catacombs? You mean the tomb with the helmet? I'm pretty sure you don't need to fight there, though I may be remembering wrong.
I googled a bit and found this: http://i.imgur.com/nQ73Ny8.png https://steamcommunity.com/app/230070/discussions/0/496879865902458882/
0 bodycount and Aurelian Praetor, though not really clear which path he took to get there. But looks to be at the very end judging by all the skill points and his insanely high rep. Wonder how he got that single combat skill point though. Maybe there's a single mandatory battle where he just hid in a corner.


I mean the one where you start out as a Daratan Praetor. The small stuff where you sorta-kinda join him with other characters doesn't really count.
I think it's a perfectly fine quest-line. What happens in Maadoran is one of my favourite parts of the game, especially the Act2 ending slide card that goes "clearly you're not being paid enough".
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Saving Gaelius -->
If you're Daratan Praetor, you get house arrested by Gaelius when you talk to the guy in Maadoran. After a while, two strange guards enter your quarters. If you just ignore them, Gaelius dies due to the Commercium conspiracy. If you want to save him, you'd have to attack them. (either without provocation, or if you have 8 PER, you can notice something off about them) There's this guy afterwards who briefs you on what happened, saying that Gaelius is on the other side of the Styx now. (if you do nothing)
You need to be a Praetor to get house arrested. Most other classes get summoned to Gaelius, but end up getting dismissed after a stern warning that old stuff is dangerous. You can join Aurelian peacefully, but I don't know if that'll get you the Praetor title. (Pretend to be *a* loremaster (not Sohrab) and succeed in fully repairing the Smelter)

As for the tomb.. I may be misremembering, but IIRC you can talk your way into the tombs, but when you find the secret chamber, the raiders tell you they got dibs on the loot and you should go away. You either have to fight them, or you can fool them into touching a booby trapped pillar saying it's gold, if you have high enough Lore. Most of them touch the pillar and die, but there will be a few that you have to kill.

My main problem with Daratan Praetor is that it's not really as polished as the other Houses. It's just a fancy title that you get, with no unique quests or any of that. You do get a unique ending if you "fail" to find the Temple
(Imperial Guards attack, you fight valiantly, but you are outgunned and outskilled, so you're defeated. You end up getting crucified)
, though.
 
Eh? The entire Daratan Praetor questline is just as unique as the other factions, with a couple of main quests per city of varying length, not available to anyone involved with other factions.
Saving Gaelius is essentially failing the Maadoran part (though you get an equivalent amount of skill points). The fun begins when you let him die, with the quests to gain favour with his nephew.
Later there's other unique stuff like blowing up Al-Akia and maybe some more, I'm not sure.
There's no unequivocally "good" endings though, because Antidas is a bit of a cunt with no real power.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can get through the tomb without having to kill anyone. They touch the pillar and then there's a speech check of some kind to convince them the tomb is haunted or something. I remember it being pretty funny.
And yeah, doing that starts up the Aurelian Praetor line, going to the Ordu and Zamedi and so on. Couple of other ways to get it besides the smelter too. And you get the Praetor title, if not immediately then eventually.
 
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PlanHex said:
Eh? The entire Daratan Praetor questline is just as unique as the other factions, with a couple of main quests per city of varying length, not available to anyone involved with other factions.
Saving Gaelius is essentially failing the Maadoran part (though you get an equivalent amount of skill points). The fun begins when you let him die, with the quests to gain favour with his nephew.
Later there's other unique stuff like blowing up Al-Akia and maybe some more, I'm not sure.
There's no unequivocally "good" endings though, because Antidas is a bit of a cunt with no real power.

Also, I'm pretty sure you can get through the tomb without having to kill anyone. They touch the pillar and then there's a speech check of some kind to convince them the tomb is haunted or something. I remember it being pretty funny.
And yeah, doing that starts up the Aurelian Praetor line, going to the Ordu and Zamedi and so on. Couple of other ways to get it besides the smelter too. And you get the Praetor title, if not immediately then eventually.
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Oh, OK. I'll try it out, then. I tried playing as it, but I found it just the same when I reached Maadoran. Didn't know that there were quests to gain his nephew's favor. And yeah, Antidas is weak and really gullible so it's a bit of a doomed quest line.

I was wrong. I checked it, and yeah, you can talk your way through all of it. Sorry about that. It's been a while.
 
No worries. Just made me fire up the game again. Think I'm gonna try going for that full speech no combat Gaelius route, haven't done that before. :P
 
I haven't read through the four pages of this thread yet so sorrry in advance if this has already been said but
"Oh you just need the right build" is a much, much better advice than "Git Gud."

At least with with telling someone they need the right build, you're actually telling them a first step to consider in their game whereas it doesn't matter how "Gud" you "Git" sometimes in a game where RnG is involved. For RPGs, that 1 point in [Attribute] could be enough to draw the odds in your favor.
 
Danuis said:
Is this a snag on RPGs or is it a feature? Should a player have to consciously build a character one way to simply advance through the game rather than just having a bit of a rougher time at it? Shouldn't RPGs - especially open world ones - allow alternate paths to get around such bumps?
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Yes and no.

You should have different builds able to do different things, but the game should be harder for some then it is for others build-wise.

RPGs shouldn't be all about making every single build viable, they should be about simulating how a world would realistically respond to different things, and give you choices based on that. For example, a repair character might find a part easy that a gun wielding mercenary wouldn't, and vice versa.

It shouldn't be about making each character build equally viable, it should be about making character builds viable when it makes sense for them to be viable.
 
PlanHex said:
No worries. Just made me fire up the game again. Think I'm gonna try going for that full speech no combat Gaelius route, haven't done that before. :P
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I did the Daratan Praetor one just now. It's pretty unique and good, thanks. First time, I finished it 100% to the end. Got the "Island outta nowhere" ending. It's better than getting crucified, I guess.

Second time, I wanted to see what happens if you do not blow up Al Akia, and do not talk to Meru, instead, just going straight to the Temple.

It's.. well, it's pretty unique ;)

393b20c594.jpg
 
Mohamed2001 said:
Yeah, but in AoD, isn't that supposed to be the point? I mean, the all talker playthrough is basically you doing diplomatic stuff. Even in the "go get an army!" part of Ganezzar, you don't actually command the army (unless you fuck up in dialogue), unlike if you play as Praetor/Imperial Guard. It's not a good example imo, because in AoD, the all talker playthrough is unique, while in other RPGs, all talker is basically the same, but with less fighting overall. Also, AoD is a bit unique because you can't really get the full experience/idea of what's going on in only one playthrough.
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I know, but my original point was that all the talkings and checks didn't feel like 'proper' gameplay mechanics, like combat, you get what I'm saying?

Anyway, I was reading a thread in the Codex asking for tips on playing Baldur's Gate for the first time and one of the reply mentioned rolling a Dwarven Fighter for first character and it hits me... kinda. I guess that's what it means to play with 'the right build', or rather first time build. AoD, for example, (iirc) actually recommend doing a full-combat playthrough for first timer instead of going full-talker to get the feel of what the game has to offer. Before you start delving deeper into the game's mechanics and content, it's best to get used to the mechanics as what they are.
 
This is often a hinderance to a game. The perfect RPG should be designed so that basically every build is viable and fun to play. Yeah, I may get flak for not adhering to "choice and consequences" and what not, but I feel C&C should apply primarily to the story and what happens because of what you do, not what you play as. That said, because games have to be designed and balanced and tested, certain builds will naturally become "better." A Guns - Speech - Science/Lockpick build in New Vegas is super OP, especially mid-game onwards, while an Unarmed - Survival - Repair build will have some serious issues getting off the ground.
 
I've done it. I'm at level 25. The Institue of Tchort is trembling. CAU sends me off to get those mutagen tanks.

Here's my character in Underrail:

Level 25 invictus.

Strength: 8
Dexterity: 7
Agility: 7
Constitution: 6
Perception: 6
Will: 6
Intelligence: 6

Feats:
  • Aimed shot
  • Burglar
  • Expertise
  • Gunslinger
  • Hunter
  • Nimble
  • Pack Rathound
  • Paranoia
  • Quick Pockets
  • Snooping
  • Interloper
  • Full Auto
  • Spec Ops
  • Commando
Skills:
  • Guns 135
  • Throwing 40
  • Dodge 60
  • Evasion 130
  • Stealth 106
  • Hacking 85
  • Lockpicking 75
  • Pickpocketing 20 (I regret this)
  • Traps 46
  • Mechanics 101
  • Electronics 20
  • Chemistry 28
  • Biology 31
  • Tailoring 52
  • Persuasion 90
  • Intimidation 40
  • Mercantile 15 (Also this).
Most of the high stuff goes into 100/200 with clothing or w/e.

Am I fucked? Can I finish the game?
 
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Boy, your stats are really all over the place. But if you've made it that far, you should be able to finish it.
The question is really whether you'll ragequit beforehand, because the last part of the game is notoriously annoying.
 
Not necessarily hard in the sense of what kind of enemy you're fighting, except the final boss of course. But absolutely tedious and mindbogglingly lots of backtracking. I'm not sure if you're gonna be able to pass one of the big fight with that Persuasion, but you sure as hell won't get another piece of dialogue with that Hacking.

Anyway, why is your stats so all over the place like that? Haven't you spent the extra points you get for leveling every 4 level? Don't tell me you're putting those all over the place, too......
 
I mean, I hack and persuade at 100 due to bonuses. My stats - I didn't know what I wanted to be. At first I wanted to be a sneaky thief, but that's relatively easy to due skill-dumping, so I veered towards a Juggernaut route, along with crafting to make good assault rifles and super steel armor.
 
Jogre said:
Wait, you beat Carnifex at level 16-18?

Yeah, sounds like you've got this in the bag.
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I had to run back to buy some steel armor and even then I had to savescum, but eventually I evaded that damn net, set the fucker on fire with molotovs, blasted him with rounds, put my shield up, caltrop'd the bridges, all that.
 
I think it doesn't really matter if you're level 10 or 25 when you fight Carnifex; the damn jerk had pumped up Initiative, it's like he's cheating, so you would definitely rely on savescumming a bit to finally gain that upper hand and one turn to turn the tides.

Danuis said:
I mean, I hack and persuade at 100 due to bonuses. My stats - I didn't know what I wanted to be. At first I wanted to be a sneaky thief, but that's relatively easy to due skill-dumping, so I veered towards a Juggernaut route, along with crafting to make good assault rifles and super steel armor.
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It's still pretty low if you want to make the most out of DC, but I think you can make due anyway.

What the hell, initially wanting to be sneaky thief, but steered toward Juggernaut route instead? Sounds very unfocused, if you ask me. Should've stick to sneaky thief instead, or make a whole new character if you want Juggernaut. A hybrid like that doesn't seem to really work because they're on an opposite spectrum (sneaky thief = light, Juggernaut = heavy). If you have taken the perk, it's gonna be a complete waste whenever you switched to sneaky thief mode. If you think you're having fun with this kind of build, tho, imagine what kind of fun you gonna have if you make a focused character.
 
I have plans to do a full Juggernaut-crafting run when the Expedition DLC comes out. Maybe. I dunno. Something from the build videos. Sneaky Thief really doesn't have much out for it UNLESS I make it an assassin run, and Melee is a real bitch due to psionics and stun/immobilization effects. I came into underrail blind; so unfocused sums it up.

Speaking of the DC: Super Steel or Riot Armor? I just have a galzanied overcoat that has kept me alive through the game, but I'm this close to making a Super Steel set.
 
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Danuis said:
I have plans to do a full Juggernaut-crafting run when the Expedition DLC comes out. Maybe. I dunno. Something from the build videos. Sneaky Thief really doesn't have much out for it UNLESS I make it an assassin run, and Melee is a real bitch due to psionics and stun/immobilization effects. I came into underrail blind; so unfocused sums it up.
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I don't know about thievery since I haven't really tried making a thief build, but being sneaky in Underrail is so fucking fun. I'm not just talking in the sense of navigating the populated caves and metros in real time, but also planning what you gonna do when ambushing an encounter. And it doesn't have to be melee, you can utilize crossbow/snipers/traps and even psionics (My most recent finished playthrough was a Stealthy Psionics). Also, I'm not berating you for not focusing your build; my very first playthrough was also kinda all over the place, but I'm just surprised you managed to get to lvl 25 while having the build still all over the place.

As for the armor advice, I can't say much because I haven't tried medium/heavy armor runs, but from taking a glance at the wiki Super Steel Armors should worth it if you want good defense.
 
Black Angel said:
I don't know about thievery since I haven't really tried making a thief build, but being sneaky in Underrail is so fucking fun. I'm not just talking in the sense of navigating the populated caves and metros in real time, but also planning what you gonna do when ambushing an encounter. And it doesn't have to be melee, you can utilize crossbow/snipers/traps and even psionics (My most recent finished playthrough was a Stealthy Psionics). Also, I'm not berating you for not focusing your build; my very first playthrough was also kinda all over the place, but I'm just surprised you managed to get to lvl 25 while having the build still all over the place.

As for the armor advice, I can't say much because I haven't tried medium/heavy armor runs, but from taking a glance at the wiki Super Steel Armors should worth it if you want good defense.
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Sneaking is very fun.

I might go for a Assault-Crafting run, especially when shotguns come out. It just fits the setting, IMO. I don't touch psionics with a 50 meter pole.
 
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