OOC- Zombie Apocalypse Chapter 2- General Discussion
- Thread starter Mr. Handy
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No problem. Yes, the M249 SAW uses the Machine Gun skill, rather than Rifle or SMG. You'll notice on Justin Hockey's character sheet that his Rifle skill is 65% but his skill with a SAW is 80%. Definitely a heavy weapon, much like the LSW in Fallout 2 (also .223, but with a 30 round magazine cap in the game). The M249 can take magazines or belts of varying sizes, but in this case you only have the 100 round belts and 30 round magazines. If you ever get more ammo later, then that might come into play.
I'd never heard of a Saw's'all before, but I'd classify it as a chainsaw, though I might reduce its damage to 2d6. The chainsaws in David's truck are the full-size variety.
The choppers have crew-served M-240 7.62mm machine guns. The gunship also has a fixed forward 19-shot rocket pod and a pair of GAU-17 7.62mm machine guns. Here's the link Welsh sent me with the specs on the UH-1N: http://www.afspc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3657
I'd never heard of a Saw's'all before, but I'd classify it as a chainsaw, though I might reduce its damage to 2d6. The chainsaws in David's truck are the full-size variety.
The choppers have crew-served M-240 7.62mm machine guns. The gunship also has a fixed forward 19-shot rocket pod and a pair of GAU-17 7.62mm machine guns. Here's the link Welsh sent me with the specs on the UH-1N: http://www.afspc.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=3657
you dont really need gloves to change the barrels Stompie (and certainly not special ones). this is belgian engineering, my good chap, not suckass M60-style fuckups. 
ahhh, Comeon, SuAside; We all know nationalism has no place in Armoury. The M-60 killed all the same.
I have to say. I trust Austrian, and German armoury more than some of the shit that has been developed in the U.S. (Cough - Cough - Eugine Stoner's aborted Fetus, the A.R. 15 )
I have to say. I trust Austrian, and German armoury more than some of the shit that has been developed in the U.S. (Cough - Cough - Eugine Stoner's aborted Fetus, the A.R. 15 )
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Ahhh... Weapons discussion. If you are looking for good machine guns you might want to check out the MAG light machine gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_MAG#Variants), a relative of the SAW in 7.62 variant, currently in use by many countries as Great Britain and Argentina. Even the US have a variant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M240_machine_gun) wich it is curiously called the M240 instead of M249 SAW wich the US Army actually describes more as an automatic rifle than as a light machine gun.
Also, more info about the M249: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_Squad_Automatic_Weapon
Also, more info about the M249: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_Squad_Automatic_Weapon
M240B; the replacement for the M-60. (Happy, SuAside? Belgain weapon replacing the M-60) The us has made quite a few armourist Fuckups in the last 40 years. (M-16, M9, Agreeing to N.A.T.O's Hate regulations, and so fourth.)
To be honest; I wish the U.S. would Drop the M-16 already, and either take up the M8, or H&K G-36. Marines are dropping the M9 as their standard sidearm, and using the Colt 1911 Government. good news, good news.
Btw, Lt. Col; Is that a G3/H&K-21 in you're avitar?
To be honest; I wish the U.S. would Drop the M-16 already, and either take up the M8, or H&K G-36. Marines are dropping the M9 as their standard sidearm, and using the Colt 1911 Government. good news, good news.
Btw, Lt. Col; Is that a G3/H&K-21 in you're avitar?
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Nop. It's an Argentine locally produced licence of the FN FAL (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as24f-e.htm.), one of the best well made FN FAL's in the world (for example: Chile's military purchased a few Brazilian FAL's wich had several design issues not present in Argentinian FAL's)
Also, it is said that the Argentine Military has preferred the the 7.62 caliber for too long, and it is time for them to change to the 5.56 caliber for assault rifles. There was a 5.65 assault rifle being developed in Argentina, but it was dropped due to lack of budget (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as85-e.htm).
Nevertheless, Argentine Army main rifle is still the 7.62 FN FAL and curiously some european countries are considering returning to 7.62 calibers for assault rifles due to the same advantages most Argentine Military have defended all this time: better accuracy (the deviation effects caused by wind and other obstacles like leaves from trees and other vegetation are considerably lessen compared to its 5.56 counterpart), a better stopping power, a better armor penetration, the ability of causing more damage at greater ranges and most importantly the assured one-shot-kill capability of the 7.62 mm round.
By the way: Are we going to see any FN FAL's during this roleplay?
Also, it is said that the Argentine Military has preferred the the 7.62 caliber for too long, and it is time for them to change to the 5.56 caliber for assault rifles. There was a 5.65 assault rifle being developed in Argentina, but it was dropped due to lack of budget (http://world.guns.ru/assault/as85-e.htm).
Nevertheless, Argentine Army main rifle is still the 7.62 FN FAL and curiously some european countries are considering returning to 7.62 calibers for assault rifles due to the same advantages most Argentine Military have defended all this time: better accuracy (the deviation effects caused by wind and other obstacles like leaves from trees and other vegetation are considerably lessen compared to its 5.56 counterpart), a better stopping power, a better armor penetration, the ability of causing more damage at greater ranges and most importantly the assured one-shot-kill capability of the 7.62 mm round.
By the way: Are we going to see any FN FAL's during this roleplay?
FN-FAL's are all arround good guns. My only problem with the weapon is its barrel length. I would like to see a Bull-pup variant of a FN-FAL.
Fabrique National makes good firearms; along side of Glock and H&K.
(Glock's great. Who gives a shit if their pistols are devoid of a saftey!)
I'm actually surprised. DaeWoo actually makes some pretty good licenced weapons, and The Peoples Republic makes some pretty decient rifles & Pistols.
I would like to see the U.S. to switch to a modernized M-14.
Fabrique National makes good firearms; along side of Glock and H&K.
(Glock's great. Who gives a shit if their pistols are devoid of a saftey!)
I'm actually surprised. DaeWoo actually makes some pretty good licenced weapons, and The Peoples Republic makes some pretty decient rifles & Pistols.
I would like to see the U.S. to switch to a modernized M-14.
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Stompie said:
Actually if you check on the link I provided in my las post you will see two variants of the FN FAL that might meet that requirement:
The one modified for SWAT teams
And a shortened paratroopers version that is also locally produced and widely used by the Argentine Army, not only by paratroopers.
Frankly I am not convinced at all by the Idea of a bull-pup version of the FN FAL.
Soldiers here do not yet rely so much on that kind of weapons and prefer to use the Steyer AUG (the official 5.56 rifle used here) for parades than for combat. Although not disregarding the well known capabilities of the gun (otherwise we wouldn't have acquired any of those rifles in the first place).
I have fired the FN FAL and it is one accurate and powerful gun. I held the paratroopers version once and it is a very well balanced and versatile weapon.
nationalism? well, that's only part of it...Stompie said:
if you take a step back you'll see the M60 was barely adequate for it's mission. 'quick' barrelchange was hard, hot (gloves needed) & tricky, full sustained fire was impossible because the weapon would overheat and jam repeatedly, craptic firing pin design...
the supposedly enhanced version of the M60 was even worse, even more fragile. (which is why the US then addopted the M240 MAG in small numbers)
who could blame a belgian to be proud of FN Herstal?
FN FAL ('50s)
FN MAG ('50s)
FN FNC (late '70s)
FN Minimi / SAW (early '80s)
FN/Browning HP BDA ('83)
FN P90
FN F2000 (2001)
FN SCAR (2004)
that's pretty much hit after hit after hit. (there are others as well, just listed the most reputable ones)
light is but a word, the mofo weighs 12kgLt. Col. Gonzalez said:
but the tradeoff is that it's the most reliable 7.62mm support weapon in the world
the MAG is the granddaddy of the SAWLt. Col. Gonzalez said:
why curiously named? Mxxx is a standard designation for a squad support weapon. you cant name 2 weapons the same. i don't get what you're trying to say.Lt. Col. Gonzalez said:
how about FN F2000, FN SCAR-L and FN SCAR-H ?Stompie said:
the SCAR's are in the SOCOM project as we speak.
DSA variants at best i'd say. but those would probably be with the nazi muffinsLt. Col. Gonzalez said:Also, it is said that the Argentine Military has preferred the the 7.62 caliber for too long, and it is time for them to change to the 5.56 caliber for assault rifles.
Nevertheless, Argentine Army main rifle is still the 7.62 FN FAL and curiously some european countries are considering returning to 7.62 calibers for assault rifles due to the same advantages most Argentine Military have defended all this time: better accuracy (the deviation effects caused by wind and other obstacles like leaves from trees and other vegetation are considerably lessen compared to its 5.56 counterpart), a better stopping power, a better armor penetration, the ability of causing more damage at greater ranges and most importantly the assured one-shot-kill capability of the 7.62 mm round.
By the way: Are we going to see any FN FAL's during this roleplay?
and yeah 7.62mm is imo far superior to 5.56mm. i hope our army soon adopts the FN SCAR series the -H variant being 7.62mm. it is also able to accept 'battlepickup' 7.62mm russian btw.
our spec ops use the FNC, FN P90, FN F2000 and FN SCAR depending on the mission requirements.
you have to remember the FAL was first released in the '50s. back then, there was 1 bullpup rifle, which failed misserably.Stompie said:
as for striving for bullpup: the F2000 is bullpup, but the FN SCAR's aren't because the US Army said it would not even consider buying them if they had been bullpup.
go figure...
simply shortening the barrel is no solution Gonzy. it decreases accuracy and power.Lt. Col. Gonzalez said:Actually if you check on the link I provided in my las post you will see two variants of the FN FAL that might meet that requirement:
The one modified for SWAT teams
And a shortened paratroopers version that is also locally produced and widely used by the Argentine Army, not only by paratroopers.
and with good reason. a bullpup FAL wouldnt be a FAL. the technology of the FAL is now 50 years old, remember? rather turn to newer techniques, like the SCAR's which are extraordinarily resillient and have a huge amount of interchangeable parts inbetween the 4 versions. (and has special features such as being fully ambidexterous, which also includes being able to change the side where the bullet cartridge jumps out of the gun)Lt. Col. Gonzalez said:
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Actually I am very impressed with the MAG. During Malvinas War (falkland for the brits) our ground forces shot down two british helicopters using the MAG machine gun.
Of course the brits would most likely deny this, but hey, I even saw on a documentary on The History Channel a dumbass saying that the british did not lost even one single Harrier fighter and I personally know first hand a pilot that shot down one in during dog fight, the first one of the war, ending up with two Harrier shot down and one argentinean Mirage shot down with his pilot ejected and landing on the argentinean controlled island.
Of course the brits would most likely deny this, but hey, I even saw on a documentary on The History Channel a dumbass saying that the british did not lost even one single Harrier fighter and I personally know first hand a pilot that shot down one in during dog fight, the first one of the war, ending up with two Harrier shot down and one argentinean Mirage shot down with his pilot ejected and landing on the argentinean controlled island.
pretty much everyone that has ever used a MAG is impressed. it's reliability and relative ease of use are still unparallelled. Belgians, Brits and Americans admit it's probably still the best 7.62mm system out there to be mounted on ground vehicles and for assignments requiring little movement. its weight however (almost twice that of a FN MINIMI/SAW) makes it impossible to use if you need to be very mobile (like spec ops). that's why now there is a spec ops 7.62mm version of the M249. which is lighter, smaller (but also less accurate than the MAG ofc).Lt. Col. Gonzalez said:
for the belgian army, it's still the reference for every vehicle that doesnt have an M2B-QBC .50 cal.
It would work well for 'Roomclearing', or street to street fighting though. that cartridge has alot of power.
Remember the MG-42? The German standard MG? The M-60 is nearly a carbon copy of the MG-42. You have to remember that technology had only advanced so far, and the properties of materials had neither not been truly realized, or were too expencive.
FN's made some pretty good firearms, Most of which are fairly spendy though, Right?
New Weapons.
METALSTORM
http://www.metalstorm.com/
Over a million rounds a minute possible, practically 0 chance of Jam, and no possibility of mechanical failure. Being tested in San Diago California.
They come in 40mm Grenade, 9mm, 7.62, and ect. All caseless, and electronically ignited.
40mm is fired at 4000 rpm, instead of the 1,000,000 rpm though
which is obviously why they call that a swat variantStompie said:
that's maybe an excuse for the original version, but the following versions E1 til E3 were total suckass & they all came out after the FN MAG was created, so you cant blame the technology or the materials for those fuckups.Stompie said:
also, the MG42 was more reliable than the M60
for reference: the original barrel could take 200 bullets in moderately rapid fire. the E3 could only take 100 bullets in rapid fire before it needed to be replaced. if you didnt, and fired twice the listed amount, your barrel was fucked & you had a good chance of a cartridge blowing up the barrel in your face.
you do the math
sure, but you're paying for a weapon that'll last you and that can be totally relied upon
Steyr, Browning (well that's actually relabled FN weapons), HK, Walther, etc, they're all pretty expensive as well.
welsh
Junkmaster
Hey Handy-
heads up Laraqua from play@yog-sothoth.com is interested in joining. She said she's interested in
Ellen Cody
Sally the Nurse,
Kerry the lunatic
Airman Alexandria Mikhalin
Personally, considering Kerry's rather traumatic state, I think we should keep her as a Keeper only character for now.
I have advised Laraqua to review Chapter 1 for Ellen and Sally.
heads up Laraqua from play@yog-sothoth.com is interested in joining. She said she's interested in
Ellen Cody
Sally the Nurse,
Kerry the lunatic
Airman Alexandria Mikhalin
Personally, considering Kerry's rather traumatic state, I think we should keep her as a Keeper only character for now.
I have advised Laraqua to review Chapter 1 for Ellen and Sally.
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
More meat for the grinder. This only seems to get better and better.
This is wonderful news! Laraqua is a great player and Keeper, and will be a welcome addition to our game. I think she decided to join after I posted in her thread on the Yog-Sothoth forums about distinguishing NPCs when there are over thirty of them about how we worked it in Zombie Apocalypse.
Stardreams is already playing Alexandria Mikhalin, so Laraqua may need to choose another character instead. Stardreams still intends to join us and she has a very good reason for not having done so yet, and she said she is trying to keep up with the story. I also already sent her the secrets for Alexandria Mikhalin and her other characters. Welsh, will you be sending Laraqua her characters' secrets, or should I?
Ellen and Sally are now Laraqua's for certain. I think she can pull off playing Kerry properly, considering her experience and Keepering skills. I'll let you make the final call, though, Welsh.
I don't have time tonight to update, so I'll probably do it some time over the next few days. It'll be a major update, since almost all of the players have posted and there's no need for a minor one. It might be best for me to hold off for a little so Laraqua and Stardreams have a chance to get started first.
That new Keeper reference thread for characters has a problem: it ends partway through Justin Hockey's listing. This is because posts here have a maximum size (probably 64K or something). I bumped up against the limit myself when I tried to edit the new characters into the initial post of the Character thread. I resolved it by separating the new characters and giving them their own post. You may want to do that in your thread, Welsh.
@Steve:
Alice does have the Persuade skill (check her secrets ), so that roll you made was really a success. You may want to edit your post.
@Gonzalez:
Michael is rolling Spot Hidden to detect a possible place to land the chopper, so what he sees is not a bad thing.
@Stompie:
The M-60 can kill all the same, but sometimes it could end up killing the people using it (even if just by jamming too often). Soldiers' lives depend upon their weapons, so they should have the highest quality possible. The FN series is well worth the extra cost.
Stardreams is already playing Alexandria Mikhalin, so Laraqua may need to choose another character instead. Stardreams still intends to join us and she has a very good reason for not having done so yet, and she said she is trying to keep up with the story. I also already sent her the secrets for Alexandria Mikhalin and her other characters. Welsh, will you be sending Laraqua her characters' secrets, or should I?
Ellen and Sally are now Laraqua's for certain. I think she can pull off playing Kerry properly, considering her experience and Keepering skills. I'll let you make the final call, though, Welsh.
I don't have time tonight to update, so I'll probably do it some time over the next few days. It'll be a major update, since almost all of the players have posted and there's no need for a minor one. It might be best for me to hold off for a little so Laraqua and Stardreams have a chance to get started first.
That new Keeper reference thread for characters has a problem: it ends partway through Justin Hockey's listing. This is because posts here have a maximum size (probably 64K or something). I bumped up against the limit myself when I tried to edit the new characters into the initial post of the Character thread. I resolved it by separating the new characters and giving them their own post. You may want to do that in your thread, Welsh.
@Steve:
Alice does have the Persuade skill (check her secrets
), so that roll you made was really a success. You may want to edit your post.@Gonzalez:
Michael is rolling Spot Hidden to detect a possible place to land the chopper, so what he sees is not a bad thing.
@Stompie:
The M-60 can kill all the same, but sometimes it could end up killing the people using it (even if just by jamming too often). Soldiers' lives depend upon their weapons, so they should have the highest quality possible. The FN series is well worth the extra cost.
Gonzalez
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Woops! I'll make the corrections right away.
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