PC Gamer UK scans

[Sander]

Surely someone will be able to fix it?

What are they going to do? Add random children throughout the map? That's just silly.

It isn't a matter of balls, it is a matter of reality. The world was a different place when Fallout was released; the so-called moral majority weren't allowed to dictate common sense to censors, but unfortunately society as a whole is now hypersensitive in the wake of Columbine, etc, and the censors lack the balls to resist it. Censorship has become a matter of politics, certainly in the UK.

Perhaps, but note that Fallout was released at arguably the high-point of political correctness as well. Doom and Wolfenstein had already been censored in Germany.
The world isn't much different, really. Also note that Fallout wasn't officially censored, but that the UK office of Interplay suggested that having children in the game would be a really bad marketing move. So Interplay's marketing department more or less ordered the team to remove children.

 

[Per]

I'm from the UK, and I have to tell you that I didn't even realise that there was children in Fallout until I found the graphics patch. It didn't detract from the game one bit for me

Compared to what? That's like saying, "I didn't even realize there was Horseback Riding in Civ, so it didn't detract from the game one bit for me." Obscuration seems like a poor excuse for exclusion.

There are two ways to defeat communists. Stoping supporting developers that yield to communists and supporting developers that stand against communists.

The only way to defeat the communists is to protest against communist infiltration of our culture.

Censorship on moral grounds isn't specifically communist. What is it with the influx of political moronity in the News threads?

 

[Sorrow]

It has something to do with politicians putting their filthy hands on our culture.

 

[Muff]

I realised when I was the voices out side the thief's house in the den and when I got the child killer perk from a random encounter that children where meant to be in the game but I found the child patch and burned it to disk so I am never with out it.

Wolfenstein 3D was edited in Germany because of the law regarding swat stickers as far as I understand it if I got it wrong can some one tell me why it was editited.

 

[quietfanatic]

Rather than the concerned mums and dads who 'think of the children', influencing their political representatives? Or poor old Goebbels and Communists who would be most offended to be lumped in with modern politicians?

 

[Sander]

I realised when I was the voices out side the thief's house in the den and when I got the child killer perk from a random encounter that children where meant to be in the game but I found the child patch and burned it to disk so I am never with out it.

Wolfenstein 3D was edited in Germany because of the law regarding swat stickers

...
That's the best spelling of 'swastikas' ever. Swat stickers.

as far as I understand it if I got it wrong can some one tell me why it was editited.

Nope. It has to do with the blood and gore as well.

 

[Sorrow]

Rather than the concerned mums and dads who 'think of the children', influencing their political representatives? Or poor old Goebbels and Communists who would be most offended to be lumped in with modern politicians?

Frankly, I don't care how they are really named. They aren't even humans to me. Simply Communists sound bad enough .

 

[Salkinius]

I'm from the UK, and I have to tell you that I didn't even realise that there was children in Fallout until I found the graphics patch. It didn't detract from the game one bit for me

Compared to what? That's like saying, "I didn't even realize there was Horseback Riding in Civ, so it didn't detract from the game one bit for me." Obscuration seems like a poor excuse for exclusion.

Well, to use your logic then... They should include everything in any game.

What it comes down to is sales. If the game would sell more if it contained the abilty to kill kids or not. I believe that in a world with no censorship, it would sell more if you had the abilty to kill kids. On the other hand, with censorship there will be less sale with the ability to kill kids. It's just sad that it will affect the integrity of the franchise.

 

[Wooz]

What it comes down to is sales.

Sales isn't everything.

To use your logic, we should all sell our immortal souls to the devil, because it's more lucrative!

Seriously now, it's an M rated game, I don't think there should be any censorship, as it's supposed to be a game for "adults".

 

[Salkinius]

What it comes down to is sales.

Sales isn't everything.

To use your logic, we should all sell our immortal souls to the devil, because it's more lucrative!

Seriously now, it's an M rated game, I don't think there should be any censorship, as it's supposed to be a game for "adults".

If someone came up to me and gave me a contract which entitled him to my soul for 1000$ I would gladly sell it to him since I don't believe in the soul, God or the Devil.

I agree, there shouldn't be a censorship. But thinking that Bethesda removes kids from the game out of spite for the fans of the games is rediculous. It's a calculated action from Bethesda's side.

 

[Sander]

If someone came up to me and gave me a contract which entitled him to my soul for 1000$ I would gladly sell it to him since I don't believe in the soul, God or the Devil.

I agree, there shouldn't be a censorship. But thinking that Bethesda removes kids from the game out of spite for the fans of the games is rediculous. It's a calculated action from Bethesda's side.

Yes, and no one disagrees with the idea that it's a calculated action. That's not the point. The fact that they've thought about it and it's profitable for them doesn't in any way mean we have to agree with it.

 

[quietfanatic]

Would it be feasible to merely make kids killable in one version, and invincible in another? It could be worth the extra work to account for more strict laws, but the strictest laws shouldn't screw up the game for everybody else in the world. Then again, any invincible characters are BS.

 

[Salkinius]

If someone came up to me and gave me a contract which entitled him to my soul for 1000$ I would gladly sell it to him since I don't believe in the soul, God or the Devil.

I agree, there shouldn't be a censorship. But thinking that Bethesda removes kids from the game out of spite for the fans of the games is rediculous. It's a calculated action from Bethesda's side.

Yes, and no one disagrees with the idea that it's a calculated action. That's not the point. The fact that they've thought about it and it's profitable for them doesn't in any way mean we have to agree with it.

¨

True, I don't agree to it either. I would rather see kids in the game than not. It's just that I think I understand how Bethesda think about it.

What if they did implement kids... How would that work when you killed one? An instant huge drop in Karma? Couldn't that be exploited to allow you to do quest where you are required to have really bad karma to do?

Hmm... that could work if there isn't some way to take an instant huge leap to positive karma.

 

[Bernard Bumner]

What are they going to do? Add random children throughout the map? That's just silly.

Gads, no! I thought the suggestion was that there might be unkillable children, which might be easier to mod around. Random outbreaks of children-for-slaughter wouldn't be big, clever, or funny...

...Also note that Fallout wasn't officially censored...

Manhunt 2 is the first game to be refused classification since the introduction of the system in 1997. It sets a dangerous precident, but it is one which will probably cause the makers of games with any degree of explicit violence to feel nervous.

With the current state of censorship and rigth-wing moralistic fervour, I can only imagine what would happen if a game with Bloody Mess, Grave-robber, and Child-killer was released in the UK today. Exploding heads is one thing, burgling the dead another, but murdering someone under voting age would definitely lead to letter-writing and the wringing of hands...

Seriously, a game with child-killing in it will not be allowed release in the UK at this point, I am convinced...

Another Rockstar game has given us an equally unpleasant precident; that a game might be censored for content that can only be modded into the game (Hot Coffee and GTA: San Andreas). If Bethesda simply locked content - i.e. undertook regional censorship - then they might still face the same problem.

Compared to what? That's like saying, "I didn't even realize there was Horseback Riding in Civ, so it didn't detract from the game one bit for me." Obscuration seems like a poor excuse for exclusion.

I'm sorry, but I really don't follow your point here. However, I would refer you to my answer below if you thought I was arguing against the inclusion of children.

Seriously now, it's an M rated game, I don't think there should be any censorship, as it's supposed to be a game for "adults".

I absolutely agree with you; I was just pointing out that the lack of children in the UK release of Fallout was not an obvious ommision if one didn't know that they were meant to be in there. Children were not an integral part of the game, but I can see no good reason for not including them. We are all adults, and should be able to separate fact and fiction.

 

[Sander]

True, I don't agree to it either. I would rather see kids in the game than not. It's just that I think I understand how Bethesda think about it.

What if they did implement kids... How would that work when you killed one? An instant huge drop in Karma? Couldn't that be exploited to allow you to do quest where you are required to have really bad karma to do?

See Fallout 1 and 2. Kiling children lowers your karma and gives you the childkiller perk, which limits some of your quests and most of your companion choices.

Gads, no! I thought the suggestion was that there might be unkillable children, which might be easier to mod around. Random outbreaks of children-for-slaughter wouldn't be big, clever, or funny...

Oh, right, sorry. Yeah, there are going to be children. They could probably be made killable through mods, but the problem would probably be the lack of a gameworld reaction to such killings.

Another Rockstar game has given us an equally unpleasant precident; that a game might be censored for content that can only be modded into the game (Hot Coffee and GTA: San Andreas). If Bethesda simply locked content - i.e. undertook regional censorship - then they might still face the same problem.

Only if the content is still present on the regional discs. They can't censor them for something that isn't even on the disc. Although the Hot Coffee ruling is rather odd, the content was present on the GTA discs.

 

[Sorrow]

With the current state of censorship and rigth-wing moralistic fervour, I can only imagine what would happen if a game with Bloody Mess, Grave-robber, and Child-killer was released in the UK today. Exploding heads is one thing, burgling the dead another, but murdering someone under voting age would definitely lead to letter-writing and the wringing of hands...

Hey, why can't we write letters and wringe hands?

Another Rockstar game has given us an equally unpleasant precident; that a game might be censored for content that can only be modded into the game (Hot Coffee and GTA: San Andreas). If Bethesda simply locked content - i.e. undertook regional censorship - then they might still face the same problem.

I think that the best way would be releasing two separate versions of a game - toned down for sale in market chains and a hardcore one for online distribution.

I absolutely agree with you; I was just pointing out that the lack of children in the UK release of Fallout was not an obvious ommision if one didn't know that they were meant to be in there. Children were not an integral part of the game, but I can see no good reason for not including them.

Heh...
That says something about how poorly the family relationships were presented in Fallout XD .

 

[Salkinius]

True, I don't agree to it either. I would rather see kids in the game than not. It's just that I think I understand how Bethesda think about it.

What if they did implement kids... How would that work when you killed one? An instant huge drop in Karma? Couldn't that be exploited to allow you to do quest where you are required to have really bad karma to do?

See Fallout 1 and 2. Kiling children lowers your karma and gives you the childkiller perk, which limits some of your quests and most of your companion choices.

Forgot about that... I really need to replay them.
Well let's hope (if the kids are in and are killable) that there isn't some way to redeme your self, after killing one.

 

[Sorrow]

What do you mean?

Also, the idea of Child Killer karma is stupid. I mean, it's okay to go to Shady Sands and murder everyone except children, but killing children magically makes one a target of bounty hunters?

Also, I really hate the idea of people magically knowing that my character did something if all the witnesses are dead.

 

[Per]

I'm sorry, but I really don't follow your point here.

I was just curious how you could say it didn't detract from the experience, since that implies you feel sure that if you had played with children, it wouldn't have added anything whatsoever.

Well, to use your logic then... They should include everything in any game.

Interesting. If we're going to call that "my logic", I assume "your logic" is that a game shouldn't contain anything? We could subtract noncrucial elements from Fallout to an arbitrary degree - skill-raising books, an NPC character model, a set of death animations, Rocks, a bunch of scenery objects, and so on - and it wouldn't be obvious to a new player that something was missing that "should" be there, but it is obvious from our perspective that the game would be poorer. (And yes, conversely, adding detail in a non-cluttering, non-obtrusive manner would obviously make it richer.)

 

[Bernard Bumner]

I was just curious how you could say it didn't detract from the experience, since that implies you feel sure that if you had played with children, it wouldn't have added anything whatsoever.

Ah, I see. I have patched the children back in, and didn't really find it changed my game experience. They are - at most - a satisfying detail, from my point of view.

(Perhaps, having already developed a playing style, I didn't make enough of an effort to interact with them, although I do remember killing some in at least one playthrough.)