Yes hard from a coding standpoint, I still remember the time when some "genius" at SOE told all of us they where going to Port Starwars Galaxies onto the Xbox....glad to say that failed miserably and that all our laughing wasn't misplaced, Also fallout 3 will probably be a very large game (hopefully not just an empty world like other Bethesda releases) I do own several consoles but wouldn't bother trying to play an immersive RPG on one. hence my statement that it would be to "big"(ok lets just say large) for a port and would have to be dumbed down.
Pete Hines talk more about Fo3
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extarbags
First time out of the vault
Still don't see where you're getting that idea... it might need to go over to two discs, which would make it a pain in the ass for console players, but you're obviously not concerned about that anyway.
Ezekiel RoT
First time out of the vault
Role Player your entitled to your own opinions as am I, the fact that we differ and still love the same game is why Fallout is great.
Also the SPECIAL system can be implemented into real time because its a stat and skill based system, it can make the exchange and still hold up, even though it hasn't been done yet Im sure the original Fo3/ Van Buren was going to have all the kinks worked out if it was able to be finished. Its a really well made system and switching from turn-based to real-time isn't that large of a leap. but these are still only my opinions.
Also the SPECIAL system can be implemented into real time because its a stat and skill based system, it can make the exchange and still hold up, even though it hasn't been done yet Im sure the original Fo3/ Van Buren was going to have all the kinks worked out if it was able to be finished. Its a really well made system and switching from turn-based to real-time isn't that large of a leap. but these are still only my opinions.
extarbags said:
Uh-huh.
Thanks!
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
You haven`t played Lionheart i suppose? And what use Perception will have in first person? I understand some people are trying to take this with optimism, that`s alright, but i`m getting really sceptic.
Role-Player
A Smooth-Skin
Ezekiel RoT said:
Actually, it couldn't. SPECIAL wouldn't work "as is" in realtime. If it accomodated both systems, there wouldn't have been a need for changes to it during VanBuren's development cycle in the first place, now would it?
I think there are some things you haven't noticed.
Suppose you're playing Fallout in a realtime, first-person environment. If you're playing a game as a first-person shooter, then what happens to a character's agility? It's useless, because you have the player's agility controlling it. If you're playing a game as a first-person shooter, then what happens to a character's Perception? Again, it's useless, because you have the player's own perception determining wheter he hits things or no. When you play Quake, you hit things because you aim yourself, not because the character has X value in a skill that determines his chances to hit. And if you have this happening, what happens to those two attributes? Useless. At that point, its no longer SPECIAL, it's SECIL.
If you go outside character attributes, then you also have skills. What happens to your weapon skills in an FPS? Weapon handling skills in an FPS are handled by the player; again, not by the character. Small Weapons, Heavy Weapons, Energy Weapons - all working based on the player's skill to effectively use weapons, specially with Perception out of the picture.
You could make it like Deus Ex. You could have the character need to upgrade his weapon skills to better use them... but there was a reason why they were removed, it's because they removed the immediacy of real time, first person combat. FPSs are usually about twitch reflexes. If you have a system ruled by players' skill (FPS), and you try to place barriers to the players' skill (ie, the need to increase skills), then it crumbles.
Even if you simply place it in realtime but do not change the PoV, again, this causes problems. Combat ends up being hectic and will require the addition of pausing. Which begs the question: if it requires pausing, then why not just include turns and give the players options to speed up the process?
If it switches to a first-person PoV, but maintains the turn-based component, than it could work. But i'm not holding my breath.
Ezekiel RoT said:
Wow...I'm really thankful for one thing. That some development house isn't afflicted by your ignorance. Maybe you should spend a bit more time on understanding how basic mechanics work, and kludging Fallout's system into RT has been done before and has been proven to make a number of the stats useless. Oh! Twice over, if you count both FOT and Lionheart.
Thank you for sharing your ignorance with us, but you're a few years too late.
Role-Player: While a first-person view CAN work with a turn-based combat like Wizardry 8, it would still lose a lot in the presentation of the game, which is important. Part of the presentation of Fallout was to have a pulpish feel and you can see your character move, fight, etc. An over the shoulder or first-person view doesn't really convey that feeling. First-person with TB combat lends to problems like movement during combat, which usually results like Birthright's adventure mode or Wizardry 8. That doesn't fit into Fallout's system too well, and guaging your movement in FP will undoubtedly be a bitch, especially when you get tired of slowly inching forward so that you only use 2 AP to move, so you can fire afterwards.
There's also enough FP and third-person games that claim to be CRPGs out there, action or TB, and we don't need Fallout changed into the exact same thing or mildly different.
Bethesda seems to honestly want to make this the Fallout game we've been waiting for. Here's something for you cynics to consider:
This announcement is proving to be HUGE. Fallout 3 is so early in development that they don't have a feature list or a plan - that's all being hammered out right now. THEY DO NOT HAVE A DESIGN DOCUMENT. Until the document is hammered out, they can't give any definate answers. It's easy to run around promising the world, but if something changes and they can't follow through, then it's treason... and that's even worse.
The good news is that fans like us are whipping up a frenzy - and Bethesda is listening. Because nothing is written in stone just yet, now is the time to make to make a stink and ensure that things start out on the right track. Nevertheless, I would'nt really worry about it. Bethesda is no Troika, but at least they're not Atari.
This announcement is proving to be HUGE. Fallout 3 is so early in development that they don't have a feature list or a plan - that's all being hammered out right now. THEY DO NOT HAVE A DESIGN DOCUMENT. Until the document is hammered out, they can't give any definate answers. It's easy to run around promising the world, but if something changes and they can't follow through, then it's treason... and that's even worse.
The good news is that fans like us are whipping up a frenzy - and Bethesda is listening. Because nothing is written in stone just yet, now is the time to make to make a stink and ensure that things start out on the right track. Nevertheless, I would'nt really worry about it. Bethesda is no Troika, but at least they're not Atari.
Role-Player
A Smooth-Skin
Roshambo said:
Very true, Rosh. As always, a good point.
I am wondering if the addition of a hex-based grid in the first-person scenario would minimize that problem, though.
All things considered, perhaps it should either remain isometric (which apparently it won't), or go with a Silent Stormesque camera, possibly with a more well integrated and developed camera.
Briosafreak
Lived Through the Heat Death
And yet still i have some doubts about this, i remember them snooping around in regards to the Fallout license in December already...we`ll see.
Briosafreak said:
I have some doubts because it makes no sense.
Who would buy a license with such a heavy load as Fallout without having any clear plans as to what to do with it? That's so incredibly unprofessional, I can simply not grasp it. I don't believe it.
Role-Player said:
Unfortunately, that might lead to people getting irritated at having to look at their feet to read the AP cost on the hexes marked on the ground, every time they move. A sniper character would be a very odd mix between Qasimodo and Simo Hayha.
Veraxus: So you think Bethesda just bought the license without thinking about what they're going to do with it first? If they do plan to keep to Fallout's design and proved that they are interested in more than the name, nothing would make the Fallout fans more happy. Instead, they are keeping vauge.
It's a simple value, one that could be expressed in binary form. Either they are going to develop Fallout so it is a faithful sqeuel, or they are not. They could have very well expressed their intent, along with the interviews, which would have gained support instead of the fans seeing a lot of vauge supposition and being told certain things by Bethesda's PR guy.
Roshambo said:Unfortunately, that might lead to people getting irritated at having to look at their feet to read the AP cost on the hexes marked on the ground, every time they move.
Ehehehehe, man...it's funny how people think real-time FP could include SPECIAL
First person view destroys both the hex-based combat system as well as the "tactical play" factor, where you can easily oversee and react to the entire field. Which is what Fallout's combat was written for.
Besides which, a "chance to hit" is a really, REALLY annoying factor in first person. If you click on someone with the target thingy and click, exactly in the middle of the torso, you expect to hit, not to get a "you missed" message.
As for real-time...ehehehehe...SPECIAL's combat skills and modifiers are all written to react to turn-based "first one person shoots twice, then the other does", not real-time or auto-pause "persons shoot at the same time". It'd take quite some recalculating and raping of SPECIAL to change that
Role-Player
A Smooth-Skin
Heh, good one
Kharn said:
But, but..I was told by the guys at the moronwind forums that they made SPECIAL for Real Time combat..
Nonono...Fallout has a stats and skill system, so it's no different from Morrowind and is perfekt for reel time!!!!LOLOL!OL!OL!LOOL!!O
How the fuck do idiots like that ever manage to figure out a dial-up, I'll never understand. Oh, wait. That's right. With the advent of cable and DSL modems that require you to only plug in a CAT-6 cable, the internet doesn't even have protection from those too brain-dead to figure out a dial-up connection.
I think have to shudder as if there's no way anyone would hire them for that kind of "reasoning ability", then that means they are govt-funded morons on the internet.
Irony. Fuck.
How the fuck do idiots like that ever manage to figure out a dial-up, I'll never understand. Oh, wait. That's right. With the advent of cable and DSL modems that require you to only plug in a CAT-6 cable, the internet doesn't even have protection from those too brain-dead to figure out a dial-up connection.
I think have to shudder as if there's no way anyone would hire them for that kind of "reasoning ability", then that means they are govt-funded morons on the internet.
Irony. Fuck.