Is it possible that the NCR traded Navarro scientists their lives for helping them create Vertibirds and other advanced tech? I believe that they did, the NCR clearly wouldn't know how to build or maintain vertibirds because they didn't have the technology. (Unless they got it from Shi, which could be another discussion) I think the possibility of such an action is possible and would be incredibly interesting if it were true.
Project Paperclip
- Thread starter Jamesbo
- Start date
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
Sigh...
Shi, Hubs, and BOS needed the plans because they weren't going to procure a whole Vertibird. NCR TOOK Navarro. Even presuming that it only EVER held 1 set of plans (which is silly), they had many intact Vertibirds claim.
So, no. Considering how fiercely they hunted down every last remnant of the Enclave? No that would not be possible.
Shi, Hubs, and BOS needed the plans because they weren't going to procure a whole Vertibird. NCR TOOK Navarro. Even presuming that it only EVER held 1 set of plans (which is silly), they had many intact Vertibirds claim.
So, no. Considering how fiercely they hunted down every last remnant of the Enclave? No that would not be possible.
Although there were multiple sets of plans, and even though the BoS had the plans they definitely wouldn't share it with filthy commoners (Like the NCR). The Vertibirds require OIL and unless the NCR found a new source in 40 years (Maybe the Shi, if the bio-oil worked in vertibrds which it might), the reserves at Navarro would've run out long ago. The only people that COULD replace the Vertibirds with an energy pack would be the Enclave scientists. The NCR also would have no idea how to operate the vertibirds effectively (And no, they don't have VR to help them, they don't have VR for power armor). You're also forgetting the real life project paperclip in which Americans scooped up all the nazi scientists they could in order to help them beat the Russians.
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TorontoReign
Guest
It is entirely possible that something like that happened, but there is no evidence to suggest such a thing. I doubt the scientists would have been executed upon taking the Enclave bases. Aside from the fact that Bethesda acts as if Vertibirds were flying all over the place according to Fallout 4 anyway.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
There wouldn't be any need forsuch a treaty when they can just take over the base and use their resources and information themselves. The NCR does have scientist among them, and they had full support of the Followers of the Apocalypse and potentially the Shi and Vault city, so they weren't scrapping by to get techno specialists. They also seem to regard any Enclave affiliate as a criminal no questions asked, just look at Arcade's NCR ending if you convince him to fight in the Battle of Hoover Dam with his dad's armor. Doubt they have much tolerance for the group that basically tried to cause a second Apocalypse.
They do have a good number of Vertibirds under their power, but they are mostly only used within their territory, you can see crashd Vertibirds if you nuke them at the end of Lonesome Road.
They do have a good number of Vertibirds under their power, but they are mostly only used within their territory, you can see crashd Vertibirds if you nuke them at the end of Lonesome Road.
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TorontoReign
Guest
My thinking on this is much like with the Nazi's. Maybe they coerced some scientists into working for them. You are right though about there being other scientists to do the job.
Walpknut
This ghoul has seen it all
Well, if they were sparing any Enclave Personel or forcing them to work for the then the Remnants, specially Dr Henry and Johnson, wouldn't have any reason to flee from NCR territory.
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TorontoReign
Guest
I thought of that as well, but I'm not sure enough to completely discount it. I think there might be a few reasonable people at the NCR who might consider amnesty to a select few talented individuals. Granted it is a long shot. Sure, a lot of details on certain projects would be available on Holodisc's. I think it ultimately comes down to how you view the Enclave. I look at the BoS and how they have been portrayed - for better or for worse - each one of them may hold individual views separate from the group. Veronica for example. Were all of the Enclave bad? Xenophobic perhaps but not much more than the BoS initially. It makes for an interesting topic at least.
SnapSlav
NMA's local DotA fanatic
Not all of the Enclave being bad (the gossip-loving cook comes to mind) has absolutely zero bearing on whether they're targeted for a blanket slaughter. NCR had no cause to spare any, historically it's been shown that they had no interest in leaving any alive, so clearly that's what they did. Only one of the Remnants encountered in FONV was outright hostile to the NCR, and he was not incidentally the evil psychopath of the group. The rest would've settled down or even helped the NCR if they could, but the option just wasn't there. Daisy Whitman alludes to her past in a manner vague enough for her previous allegiances to be perceived as NCR in order to avoid any unnecessary suspicion, and she's about the nicest possible incarnation of a personality that you could expect to come out of that bunch. And yet she was on the run, too.
Whether it was from sacking Navarro or from their joint efforts with the Brotherhood before the war began, it doesn't really matter. But clearly the NCR didn't need to spare any Enclave scientists to acquire the tech.
Whether it was from sacking Navarro or from their joint efforts with the Brotherhood before the war began, it doesn't really matter. But clearly the NCR didn't need to spare any Enclave scientists to acquire the tech.
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TorontoReign
Guest
Before Fallout 3 we would have also thought the BoS would never give a shit about the Wasteland or those living in it - unless you consider Tactics which strayed too much from the lore in parts. The BoS was more about self preservation than anything else. When answering this question I think to myself "What would Bethesda do?"
As stupid as that sounds. Because that is really what it comes down to. Would they think it plausible for an ex Enclave scientist to work for the NCR or other factions? Would the NCR known that the scientist was from the Enclave? Maybe their past is a mystery to the NCR? You name off a bunch of lore reasons that Bethesda would most likely ignore. You are 100% correct in your statement despite that.
It would be no different than Arcade going to work for the Followers. I wouldn't automatically dismiss something that is plausible. When determining what would happen in future games you have to be a little more open minded. Blindly adhering to what happen in the past is a bit boring. I'm not saying disregard lore. I'm saying add to it when appropriate. Based off the information we currently possess we could assume most of the Enclave members were killed, yet the Remnants showed me that there are still plenty of those guys in hiding, most likely integrating with the rest of the Wasteland in the process, whether that be joining up with various factions or not.
So we know there are at least 1 or 2 separate Enclave bases elsewhere besides the ones in the original games. One in Chicago possibly. Hopefully not too many more because they have been overdone to death, but that isn't the question. If we work off the assumption that one scientist wasn't the hugest fan of the Enclave, he was a member nevertheless, they get destroyed, Remnants are scattered across the Wasteland, with many Enclave members gong into hiding; Does this leave room for a few to survive, or do you still agree they would have all been wiped out? At one point the BoS would have been a possible ally during the Battle of Hoover Dam, so Obsidian thought it possible to talk sense into stubborn factions with long held grudges.
All that being said, I'm not only thinking of vertibird tech here which would be duplicated even without the Enclave. There could be other technology that would be important for the NCR to get their hands on. Why kill a scientist when he can be a slave? Put a Slave Collar on that fucker and put him to work. If he screws up you blow his fucking head off.
This is all irrelevant since Bethesda has ruined the franchise but that wasn't the question.
As stupid as that sounds. Because that is really what it comes down to. Would they think it plausible for an ex Enclave scientist to work for the NCR or other factions? Would the NCR known that the scientist was from the Enclave? Maybe their past is a mystery to the NCR? You name off a bunch of lore reasons that Bethesda would most likely ignore. You are 100% correct in your statement despite that.
It would be no different than Arcade going to work for the Followers. I wouldn't automatically dismiss something that is plausible. When determining what would happen in future games you have to be a little more open minded. Blindly adhering to what happen in the past is a bit boring. I'm not saying disregard lore. I'm saying add to it when appropriate. Based off the information we currently possess we could assume most of the Enclave members were killed, yet the Remnants showed me that there are still plenty of those guys in hiding, most likely integrating with the rest of the Wasteland in the process, whether that be joining up with various factions or not.
So we know there are at least 1 or 2 separate Enclave bases elsewhere besides the ones in the original games. One in Chicago possibly. Hopefully not too many more because they have been overdone to death, but that isn't the question. If we work off the assumption that one scientist wasn't the hugest fan of the Enclave, he was a member nevertheless, they get destroyed, Remnants are scattered across the Wasteland, with many Enclave members gong into hiding; Does this leave room for a few to survive, or do you still agree they would have all been wiped out? At one point the BoS would have been a possible ally during the Battle of Hoover Dam, so Obsidian thought it possible to talk sense into stubborn factions with long held grudges.
All that being said, I'm not only thinking of vertibird tech here which would be duplicated even without the Enclave. There could be other technology that would be important for the NCR to get their hands on. Why kill a scientist when he can be a slave? Put a Slave Collar on that fucker and put him to work. If he screws up you blow his fucking head off.
This is all irrelevant since Bethesda has ruined the franchise but that wasn't the question.