Rambling about Bethesda, Fallout and opinions.

The Courier

Blain is a pain.
I've been having a lot of conversations with my boyfriend lately regarding the upcoming Fallout 4. And it's yielded an interesting divide in opinion that I wanted to share. This is an anecdotal post, sorry if anyone falls asleep, I tend to ramble.

For a bit of background, I'm a big fan of classic CRPG's and generally find Fallout 2 to be my top Fallout game. When it's not jockeying for position with New Vegas, anyway. I personally prefer the gameplay, art style and 50's shenanigans of modern fallout, whilst the in depth role-play, choice and consequences and open endedness of the originals really wets my whistle versus the more constricted recent entries. Needless to say, I'm firmly in the middle of the whole classic vs. modern game design element. I like both, pretty much. (The comforting resemblance to Deus Ex does butter me up, I'll admit.)

My boyfriend, Chris, however, is a newly minted fan. I introduced him to New Vegas firstly, and now he's flipping back and forth between FO3 and the first game. He loves Fallout; however, mainly in it's current form. This is largely due to the way in which one interacts with the environment. He loves nothing more than simply scavenging through the environment for bits and bobbles to bring home to Megaton/Lucky 38 or whatever bombed out shell he's chosen as his home.

I tend to roleplay as specific individuals, especially as The Courier given his/her undefined background, shaped by past events that lead them to interact with the denizens of the Wasteland in wildly outlandish and specific ways. My greatest joys often come from passed skill checks, amusing dialogue and multi-pathed quests. Essentially, I am a fairly common type for someone whose played RPG's as long as I have. My experience is often acclimate to a choose-your-own-adventure book.

Chris, on the other hand, comes from a gaming background of simulation and strategy games with a large helping of the Battletech tabletop game and it's many gaming excursions. As such, his style of roleplay is unrestricted by genre conventions and expectations, being that before I came along he hadn't played many if any Computer/Console RPG's. Whereas I value dialogue, story and complex systems of play, he values the ability to shape himself and his adventures in ways that aren't predefined by developer whim. His biggest problem with Skyrim, a game I enjoy but often deride for shitty writing, unchanging backdrop and poor character motivation? The physics keep knocking the shit off his shelves he spent a full thirty minutes carefully placing and arranging according to his character's habit of collecting skulls and "Shinies".

The difference in values has led me to really reassess how I view Fallout 4 in particular. On one hand, the dialogue looks to have been cut down, at least in choices per dialogue tree. The skill system I have so enjoyed tweaking and planning for five games now may have been scrapped, cutting down on the intricate character building I had embarked on in New Vegas in particular. This too was affected by the definite background of having a spouse and a child, limiting the roleplay related to my character's sexual proclivity and marital status. I'm not even going to get started on how I feel about the "press a button to critical".

But on the other hand, the world seems more detailed and artistically pleasing than ever, really encouraging the player to be interested in the world around them rather than blindly following quest lines. On top of this is a vast crafting system, not just for weapons which look appropriately jury rigged, but creating settlements, finally letting the player make a physical, tangible change in the environment. One that also makes logical sense, as before you were always the man with no name on his way through-never a settler with dreams and aspirations for a new world.

I am finding more and more, as I replay each Fallout game from FO1 to NV, that applying this other way of thinking has drawn me in in exciting new ways my prior efforts' more narrow-minded, sequential approach did not. Bethesda has always driven a spike between my duplicitous gaming personality, especially with their take on my beloved Fallout, but I'm learning to approach the games with new eyes. And it's not all so bad. This direction could really be something special. Cautious optimism tends to be preferable to outright cynicism, at least in my book. Anyway, I thought it would be nice to generate a little positive conversation about the new game that wasn't just blind optimism and Bethesda-stroking.

Can't possibly be worse than Oblivion, anyway.*







*Anything's better than a whole game's worth of rude jackoff's whose faces resemble scrotums manipulated to resemble a crude abstract painting of a human face by an amputee with cerebral palsy. (I apologize, I used that one earlier in a conversation and just had to write it down somewhere.)
 
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Wow, this is actually a surprisingly thoughtful post with a good point.

IMHO when it comes down to it, RPGs are about being able to make a character (however defined they may be beforehand) and actualize them in the game using its mechanics. All these skill systems over the years, experience bars, numbers, etc, etc, serve to this purpose. To this end, I think being able to simulate the environment itself and giving the player the freedom to reshape it can also be a very valuable tool, and might be a bit undervalued by traditional cRPG players
 
I agree, given that some of the finest western RPG's have given us pre-defined characters we fill out, such as The Nameless One from Planescape: Torment and Geralt of Rivia from The Witcher. And, in reflection, I felt I still had a great level of control over their adventures.

I think it's far too easy to get tunnel vision in this medium. As a whole we tend to look for the same mechanics and storytelling methods in each subsequent entry when that doesn't work in any other medium. People praise Aliens as a sequel to Alien because of it's differing tone and method, for instance, not it's rigid adherence to the original like with, say, Die Hard 2.

Fallout 4 looks to be a real start for Bethesda to fill out the East Coast of Fallout in their own unique vision, rather than rehash everything in Fallout 1 and 2 with little understanding of the decisions that made those games what they were. They're just letting themselves run wild and I think that may be a good thing for the series. New Vegas was a pretty solid finale to classic Fallout, here on out should be something new. It may not reach the heights the original games reached, but it doesn't need to. I just hope this setting, which is still unique among it's role-playing peers, continues to mutate.

And hopefully they got a new writer. Anyone. Please.
 
New Vegas was a pretty solid finale to classic Fallout, here on out should be something new.
If Bethsoft ever does decide to outsource a spinoff title again after FO4 similar to what they did for New Vegas, maybe Machinegames of Wolfenstein fame would not be a bad name? Not that they have good RPG credentials but I enjoyed their world and lore building in W:TNO. Perhaps a totally different Fallout setting, either Pacific North West or Texas? On the other hand, an american studio would perhaps be better for understanding the source material and such.
 
I agree, given that some of the finest western RPG's have given us pre-defined characters we fill out, such as The Nameless One from Planescape: Torment and Geralt of Rivia from The Witcher. And, in reflection, I felt I still had a great level of control over their adventures.

I think it's far too easy to get tunnel vision in this medium. As a whole we tend to look for the same mechanics and storytelling methods in each subsequent entry when that doesn't work in any other medium. People praise Aliens as a sequel to Alien because of it's differing tone and method, for instance, not it's rigid adherence to the original like with, say, Die Hard 2.

Fallout 4 looks to be a real start for Bethesda to fill out the East Coast of Fallout in their own unique vision, rather than rehash everything in Fallout 1 and 2 with little understanding of the decisions that made those games what they were. They're just letting themselves run wild and I think that may be a good thing for the series. New Vegas was a pretty solid finale to classic Fallout, here on out should be something new. It may not reach the heights the original games reached, but it doesn't need to. I just hope this setting, which is still unique among it's role-playing peers, continues to mutate.

And hopefully they got a new writer. Anyone. Please.

Yep. People tend to focus on mechanics superficially without giving a lot of thought as to what these mechanics are supposed to do. I always, for example, disliked the term "RPG mechanics," to describe things like leveling up and experience bars. Leveling up and experience bars on their own really don't mean much and aren't inherently RPG. They're used a lot in RPGs, sure, but in RPGs, experience and level ups are an abstraction; as your character interacts more with the world, they learn about it and this is quantified with these mechanics. In something like a MOBA, however, experience points and levels mainly serve as a commodity, something you try to gather to earn an edge over the enemy team. These are superficially similar but serve very different purposes.

Yeah, Fallout 3 was a bit of a zombie in that regard . . . Bethsoft had a lot of opportunity to move and do something truly unique and different, but they just kind of rehashed everything from the first fallouts and plastered them on the east coast for no reason. Hopefully Fallout 4 will be more coherent and whole with a new creative direction.

:/ If it's anything Bethesda will get wrong it's probably going to be the writing. I was never optimistic about their writer choices. Ever. At all. I don't want to rag on the writer that much--Todd Howard's approach to design seems to really lack a lot of planning, and it can be hard contribute writing to a narrative if the developing team aren't on the same page (writing, game designers, artists, etc)--but darn . . .

 
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And hopefully they got a new writer. Anyone. Please.

Nope! Sadly the same guy who wrote for Fallout 3 is writing for Fallout 4. :seriouslyno:
Great. More retardation.

New Vegas was a pretty solid finale to classic Fallout, here on out should be something new.
Let me stop you right there. First of all, Classic Fallout died 17 years ago. New Vegas might be the closest game to the first two entries, but it is pure Modern Fallout. No way is it a finale to the original series. Second, the series as changed drastically from 1997 to 2010. The series has always offered something new to each installment.
 
And hopefully they got a new writer. Anyone. Please.

Nope! Sadly the same guy who wrote for Fallout 3 is writing for Fallout 4. :seriouslyno:
Great. More retardation.

New Vegas was a pretty solid finale to classic Fallout, here on out should be something new.
Let me stop you right there. First of all, Classic Fallout died 17 years ago. New Vegas might be the closest game to the first two entries, but it is pure Modern Fallout. No way is it a finale to the original series. Second, the series as changed drastically from 1997 to 2010. The series has always offered something new to each installment.

I meant more in spirit than anything. Mechanically and lore-wise, it was heir apparent to Van Buren. Just with Elder Scrolls heaped on it. And Besides a particularly abhorrent Dungeon Crawler for consoles, I'd say what we're seeing in Fallout 4 is a pretty big departure even from bethesda's previous entry.

I consider NV a finale because it was a game of endings. The NCR had grown into a far reaching militaristic government from it's primary beginnings in Fallout 2. The Brotherhood, at least the Western Chapter, is clearly in it's death throes, as is the Enclave, personified by an aging, broken down group of outcasts. Super Mutants continue to narrow the differences between themselves and encroaching civilization. Civilization as we once knew it is coming to the Wasteland-a clear step away from Fallout 1's world. Thematically, the DLC's all echoed the same sentiment: Letting go of the past and embracing the present, for better or ill. To me, it screams ending. At least to the West Coast-which is, for all intents and purposes, classic Fallout.

It's all apart of what I mean: Game mechanics are nothing more than a means of interaction with the setting and writing. And besides the Legion being too shallow and a few broad stroke characters faltering, it was a pretty well constructed tale. Of course, nothing I've said is new or not obvious, the game's writing and more in depth mechanics speak for themselves. And so no one misunderstands, that is simply my opinion, obviously you don't have to share it. I'm just expanding on my opinion.
 
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And hopefully they got a new writer. Anyone. Please.

Nope! Sadly the same guy who wrote for Fallout 3 is writing for Fallout 4. :seriouslyno:

Well, here's hopes that he learned something from the criticisms.
Well, none actually :(

Why would he? He won an award for Best Writing for Fallout 3. :seriouslyno:


And Stephanie Meyer made millions writing that Twilight mormon porn shit. Awards don't mean, as my grampybone told me, Fuck All. :wiggle:
 
I meant more in spirit than anything. Mechanically and lore-wise, it was heir apparent to Van Buren. Just with Elder Scrolls heaped on it. And Besides a particularly abhorrent Dungeon Crawler for consoles, I'd say what we're seeing in Fallout 4 is a pretty big departure even from bethesda's previous entry.

I consider NV a finale because it was a game of endings. The NCR had grown into a far reaching militaristic government from it's primary beginnings in Fallout 2. The Brotherhood, at least the Western Chapter, is clearly in it's death throes, as is the Enclave, personified by an aging, broken down group of outcasts. Super Mutants continue to narrow the differences between themselves and encroaching civilization. Civilization as we once knew it is coming to the Wasteland-a clear step away from Fallout 1's world. Thematically, the DLC's all echoed the same sentiment: Letting go of the past and embracing the present, for better or ill. To me, it screams ending. At least to the West Coast-which is, for all intents and purposes, classic Fallout.

It's all apart of what I mean: Game mechanics are nothing more than a means of interaction with the setting and writing. And besides the Legion being too shallow and a few broad stroke characters faltering, it was a pretty well constructed tale. Of course, nothing I've said is new or not obvious, the game's writing and more in depth mechanics speak for themselves. And so no one misunderstands, that is simply my opinion, obviously you don't have to share it. I'm just expanding on my opinion.
Despite the fact that NV is on par with the classic games in terms of writing and characters. I would still considered to not be a finale of Classic Falout because it feels too modern to me. Then again, opinions differ.
 
I don't consider it a finale.... Because despite me being a pessimistic jackass part of me still wants to be optimistic that we might get another proper Fallout, altho the voice is rather low and extremely unsure this time around....
 
I don't consider it a finale.... Because despite me being a pessimistic jackass part of me still wants to be optimistic that we might get another proper Fallout, altho the voice is rather low and extremely unsure this time around....

I try to keep that parte alive too, but sometimes it's difficult... And the same voice is telling me now that maybe, juuuuuust maybe I'm being a pessimistic jackass like you and FO4 will be really good :V
 
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