"Rampage" in Sydney streets---It has begun

[Duckman]

First in France (this year), and now in the relatively relaxed and tolerant society of Australia, mob rule has had control of the streets of parts of Sydney. It all began as a man bashed/abused a lifeguard on Cronulla beach. No-one seems to care how the violence actually started, but the news that a man of "middle-eastern" appearance assaulted an apparent "Australian" lifeguard fuels hatred for those people who are of middle eastern appearance.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/race-riots-spread-to-suburbs/2005/12/11/1134235951313.html

Also, in the outer suburbs of Sydney, namely Campbelltown, there was a planned attack on all Australians who entered the nearby shopping centre, and the people who were going to attack them were of "middle eastern appearance".

Seriously, WTF? Hatred between the middle eastern community and the Australians (and vice-versa) has been fairly bearable, but now that people have an excuse to show there true hatred to one another, riots break out... Trust me, I live in the thick of it....

Does anyone have any thoughts on the situation in Sydney and it's possible effects in the short and long term future?

And BTW, no one as yet has officially "won" but planned attacks/riots are organised across the Christmas and New Year holiday, at the beaches and away from the beaches, seeing as there is a current lockdown on them.

Cheers,
The Duckman

 

[Kan-Kerai]

I think it's going to be used as a smokescreen for the police and government to expand their powers dramatically. It's already happened in France, Russia and the USA, so why not Australia?

It's kind of frightening, all of the 1984-esque moves we've seen happening across the world recently. And by the way, the prevailing anti-"Middle-easterner" attitude across a large portion of the "civilized" world frankly REEKS of the rampant anti-Semitic attitude and acts (for lack of a better word) across the world during the leadup to WW2.

 

[Duckman]

Well, you certainly have that right. Within 2 days of this occuring, the government used its control of the Senate top pass new "radical" laws to give the police more power to apprehend troublemakers.

Cheers,
The Duckman

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

Those of "middle-eastern appearance" are a very troublesome group of people. They blow up buildings, kill, maim, mug and steal. We Russians are already sick and tired of them and their destructive activity.

They recently wrote two letters to Putin. The first said they were offended by our national anthem because it had a line that goes "protected by God". And that they would like us to exclude the word "God". And in the second letter to our president they wrote they were offended by the national symbol, the double-headed eagle, because there are two christian crosses on the tops of their crowns. They would like us to remove them as well.

That is absolutely unbearable!! But all our efforts to show those "middle-eastern" bitches what's what are blamed by Europe and theUSA. They even call us fascists!

What about Sydney? Looks like you'll get the police order. Sorry to say that. But the problem is here to stay for sure.

 

[quietfanatic]

I considered posting about this when it happened days ago, but I just dismissed it as a case of drunk young hooligans looking for excuses to fight and smash things. All moronic scum. I thought that the media was merely exaggerating the race element in of all this. When the thugs realise that they couldn't get away with things much longer they would stop the escalation out of fear of arrest. There is no big difference in access to opportunities by different ethnic groups and nearly everyone is an immigrant after all.

I live in the Eastern Suburbs that are close to the CBD and don't really have high numbers of Lebanese people. Those I do know are all professional people with practically no hatred of anyone else. But then again, Sydney is actually a massive city, probably one of the largest in the world in spite of the small population, so I might be mistaken, insulated in my middle-class beach-haven. Everywhere has been swarming with police and I don't think anything has happened, in spite of threats by both sides to launch attacks today.

Hatred between the middle eastern community and the Australians (and vice-versa) has been fairly bearable, but now that people have an excuse to show there true hatred to one another, riots break out... Trust me, I live in the thick of it....

The fact that you repeat the distinction between 'Middle Eastern' and 'Australian' (Anglo?) is worrying, as you show that there is a degree of racial tension which I was not fully aware of.

I don't like it when some people from the Western Suburbs come to my local beach because they are noisy, take up space and make a mess. However, this is not because many happen to be of Middle Eastern appearance; there are plenty of Anglo bums as well and European/American tourists are just as annoying.

Is proper assimilation failing in what have become enclaves in the outer suburbs Duckman? Why do you think there is racial hatred?

EDIT: Just saw the national news on television. There were no known disturbances today although there were peace rallies and weapons were confiscated from several individuals. The Premier says that there will be even more of a police presence around Christmas and beyond. We'll see what happens, if anything.

 

[Duckman]

I considered posting about this when it happened days ago, but I just dismissed it as a case of drunk young hooligans looking for excuses to fight and smash things. All moronic scum.

I totally agree here, these "people" just go to the beach or wherever it may be and just decide to join the crowd, drink and start there moronic claims that the Lebanese community is scum. Its all a statement of "I'm an Australian and I'm standing up for MY country". completely moronic.

I live in the Eastern Suburbs that are close to the CBD and don't really have high numbers of Lebanese people. Those I do know are all professional people with practically no hatred of anyone else.

I'm not simply generalising all Lebanese in the community as menaces to society, but simply put, they are giving themselves a bad name within the community as the several few I know are troublemakers. Yet, there are some Lebanese within the community, who are some of the nicest, honest and of the highest calibre. The few that are choosing to riot are those fanatics who dislike the "aussie bums" and whatever else they do, and attack them.

The fact that you repeat the distinction between 'Middle Eastern' and 'Australian' (Anglo?) is worrying, as you show that there is a degree of racial tension which I was not fully aware of.

Trust me here, living in the western suburbs (Liverpool-Campbelltown area) which consists of well over 200,000 people, racism is rife. Even if the racism felt by people is not outwardly expressed, it definitely is felt by the community when gangs of Lebanese or whoever get together and exclude themselves from society and act unsociably. This occurs at shopping centres where these people talk loudly about others race or other traits.

I don't like it when some people from the Western Suburbs come to my local beach because they are noisy, take up space and make a mess. However, this is not because many happen to be of Middle Eastern appearance; there are plenty of Anglo bums as well and European/American tourists are just as annoying.

Hey, I don't like it when people from the eastern suburbs come to Campbelltown or any western suburb (they stand out from the crowd) and talk overly loud about how "disgusting and dirty" the place may be. I mean no offence, however it just shows class dualism between different places within the community.

Is proper assimilation failing in what have become enclaves in the outer suburbs Duckman?

Assimilation within, for example, Lebanese enclaves is impossible. As is in Australian enclaves, a Lebanese person would have just as much trouble. So the answer is yes.

Why do you think there is racial hatred?

People's intolerance toward one another.

Well, sorry long post.

Cheers,
The Duckman

 

[The Commissar]

]They blow up buildings, kill, maim, mug and steal. We Russians are already sick and tired of them and their destructive activity.

You just described the entire current population of the Northern and Southern Caucasus. And quite a fair bit of Moscow I do believe. And basicly every policeman in Russia.

 

[zioburosky13]

It freaks me when the news came out not long ago cause I have lot's of friends who are there. Be it working or studying. Well according to the 'news', only middle-east peoples were targeted. The chi. and others are fine.

Let's hope who ever started this gets burn and spank in Hell.

 

[[Rusty Chopper]]

You just described the entire current population of the Northern and Southern Caucasus. And quite a fair bit of Moscow I do believe. And basicly every policeman in Russia.

Quite right. Caucasus arriaved in Moscow and is now trying to play according to its rules. Very successfully, I should say. Normal militiamen would never blow up blocks of flats. But I have strong suspection towards the FSB.

 

[welsh]

Thing about riots is that they are also opportunities for anarchy, and with anarchy massive wealth redistribution by way of theft.

Then again, with authoritarian repression you also get massive economic redistribution, also by way of theft- but it goes to the ruling class.

Hard to tell which is better.

 

[Duckman]

Thing about riots is that they are also opportunities for anarchy, and with anarchy massive wealth redistribution by way of theft.

Then again, with authoritarian repression you also get massive economic redistribution, also by way of theft- but it goes to the ruling class.

Hard to tell which is better.

Too hard to tell, yes, but why let the mob rule take over?? They attack people and cause severe damage to property so allowing them to redistribute wealth/income in this way is not necessarily, in my mind, a way to redistribute effectively...

But considering that a group of people can do this, and sometimes manage to make redistribution, amongst other things, is amazing and should somehow be commended. But I am NOT condoning these actions as a way of doing so.

Cheers,
The Duckman

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

"Redistribution of wealth" my ass.
Those are assholes looting and destroying property, not the revolutionary intelligence striving for socio-economic equilibrium.

 

[Duckman]

"Redistribution of wealth" my ass.
Those are assholes looting and destroying property, not the revolutionary intelligence striving for socio-economic equilibrium.

Just as I originally thought. All it is a binge drinking, alcohol fueled anger against people of other races. Seriously, these people have nothing better to do than get drunk and attack and destroy property.

Cheers,
The Duckman

 

[Brother None]

]Those of "middle-eastern appearance" are a very troublesome group of people. They blow up buildings, kill, maim, mug and steal. We Russians are already sick and tired of them and their destructive activity.

Considering you Russians have a terrorist tradition that started with mostly Russian or Little Russian terrorists trying to kill the Tsar, I would expect you of all people to be more open-minded before simply blaming terrorism on the fact that they're "middle-eastern appearing"

Shit, man.

]That is absolutely unbearable!! But all our efforts to show those "middle-eastern" bitches what's what are blamed by Europe and theUSA. They even call us fascists!

Well, dude, the whole Chechnya thing ain't pretty, man.

Though I'm fairly sure few people still sympathise with the Chechens at this point.

Those are assholes looting and destroying property, not the revolutionary intelligence striving for socio-economic equilibrium.

The distinction can be fairly vague.

 

[quietfanatic]

Trust me here, living in the western suburbs (Liverpool-Campbelltown area) which consists of well over 200,000 people, racism is rife. Even if the racism felt by people is not outwardly expressed, it definitely is felt by the community when gangs of Lebanese or whoever get together and exclude themselves from society and act unsociably. This occurs at shopping centres where these people talk loudly about others race or other traits.

...when <strike>gangs</strike> groups of <strike>Lebanese or whoever</strike> adolescents get together and exclude themselves from society and act unsociably... they are annoying. But if they also happen to be of one ethnicity they could attract racist slurs due to ignorance and fear, strengthening their feeling of exclusion from society and causing them to retaliate by adding the racial dimension to their own offensive delinquent behaviour. That doesn't seem to be a reason for an explosion into rioting. According to the sketchy research on the net, only about half of those surveyed thought there was any ethnic tension.

http://www.uts.edu.au/new/releases/2002/September/pdfs/f_section5.pdf

Are fears of violent gang crime and monopolizing the drug market actually real? The sensational media reporting is probably exaggerating the present problems.

As is in Australian enclaves, a Lebanese person would have just as much trouble.

Huh? Could you clarify this please.

Well, sorry long post.

I like the fact that you don't have to apologize for posting constructive comments here. You won't get chastised for expecting people to read if what you write is interesting to discuss or debate.

Redistribution of wealth? I think not.

 

[Montez]

Thing about riots is that they are also opportunities for anarchy, and with anarchy massive wealth redistribution by way of theft.

Then again, with authoritarian repression you also get massive economic redistribution, also by way of theft- but it goes to the ruling class.

Hard to tell which is better.

I'd disagree that anarchy, at least as it comes in riots, results in redistribution of wealth; all it results in is redistribution of luxury goods. If you can aquire enough of them you might be able be able to convert them to some small amount of wealth, sure, but the point of wealth is power - not necessarily in the 'controlling others' sense, but in the sense of having greater control over and say in how your life is lived - and luxury goods do not equal power. As soon as the riot is quelled the rioters are right back in the circumstances where they began, and a shiny new tv and dvd player doesn't change that for them at all. I have a hard time believing that any looters are thinking anything other than 'Cool, now's my chance to get some free stuff'.

 

[Duckman]

...when gangs groups of Lebanese or whoever adolescents get together and exclude themselves from society and act unsociably... they are annoying.

Well, you struck that nail on the head. They are annoying and opposed to what some Muslim extremists say about there reason for retaliation, many of these people are on the streets causing trouble for the general public, because these ignorant adolescents do not respect each other or anyone else.

But if they also happen to be of one ethnicity they could attract racist slurs due to ignorance and fear, strengthening their feeling of exclusion from society and causing them to retaliate by adding the racial dimension to their own offensive delinquent behaviour.

I think the reason that these people attract these racist slurs, is for the simple fact that they themselves call out and discriminate against others.

As is in Australian enclaves, a Lebanese person would have just as much trouble.


Huh? Could you clarify this please.

Yeah, that didn't make much/any sense. What I meant was that a Lebanese person trying to assimilate into an enclave where the majority of people are arrogant/ignorant Australians (anglo's) would be extremely difficult. As would an Australian attempting to assimilate into a Lebanese/Muslim enclave.

I'd disagree that anarchy, at least as it comes in riots, results in redistribution of wealth; all it results in is redistribution of luxury goods. If you can aquire enough of them you might be able be able to convert them to some small amount of wealth, sure, but the point of wealth is power - not necessarily in the 'controlling others' sense, but in the sense of having greater control over and say in how your life is lived - and luxury goods do not equal power. As soon as the riot is quelled the rioters are right back in the circumstances where they began, and a shiny new tv and dvd player doesn't change that for them at all. I have a hard time believing that any looters are thinking anything other than 'Cool, now's my chance to get some free stuff'.

These riots are completely different from those experienced overseas. The "rampaging" parties are not looking to loot or steal anything, and as far as I know none of this has actually happened, . The focus has been, however, on the "forced" assimilation of the Australian/Muslim population to assimilate to their particular side.

I have to make the point that the Muslim population of Sydney is trying to force it's ideals onto the people. For example, when a girl and her friends were raped and attacked by Lebanese men, the "leader" of the Muslim church condoned the activities by saying that the girls deserved the attack because they wear short skirts and immodest dress. And he went on to say that any girl deserves this if they don't dress modestly. WTF??!!! No one in there right mind would believe this....

According to the sketchy research on the net, only about half of those surveyed thought there was any ethnic tension.

ONLY? I understand the dodgy internet surveys, but 50% in my mind is a significant number. And if this figure is comparable with the population of Sydney, that is 2 million people who believe there is ethnic tension... Just a thought...

Cheers,
The Duckman

 

[Davaris]

I'm a Sydney sider and I think a lot of what has happened is down to what criminal gangs do all over the world. They steal, they intimidate and they assault and kill ordinary people. They have been intimidating/attacking people at Cronulla beach for many years, with the Police/Government doing nothing to stop them for political reasons.

What you saw at Cronulla, was people saying they had had enough. Unfortunately 3 white supremicist groups got involved (as well as a whole lot of alcohol) and 3 innocent Lebanese people were assaulted.

Now it has escalated and become a race issue, which isn't the heart of the matter. It has always been a law and order issue.

What is needed are specialist undercover police to target these gangs and to secretly film their activities. Then when they have enough evidence, they should move in and arrest them. Then people would feel safe in their own suburbs and have no reason to fear/hate anyone based on race.

 

[Zaij]

Nrg. The whole reaction to this thing is just overkill.

 

[Duckman]

Nrg. The whole reaction to this thing is just overkill.

It sure has been but, what else would you have expected to happen? I mean, the general public, let alone the authorities aren't just going to sit back and say, "Don't worry, it will pass". They all had their own reactions and did what they had to, to work this situation out as best they can.