Redux: Download, Not Up To Date

Discussion in 'Fallout Tactics Modding' started by RasterOps, Jun 3, 2012.

  1. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    Jan 21, 2010
    You talk about heavy engine changes, which are possible in Jarekfall's kingdom, not in our. Sad but true.
    Btw, you can press "D" in mission - that will display current time in log window. Pretty useful as is.

    Anything else is a dream, not yet available to us.

    No. But in every mod initial NPC (Stitch and Farsight) usually get some changes. In this mod, AFAIK, Stitch has Barter, and Farsight has Melee tag instead of original Outdoorsman tag.

    Will gain his share of EXP each time you visit RM. He just won't use his skill points and perks, and you can distribute them manually later.

    If i have any pistol, i'd prefer it over any spear. If only i'm not a Fleetfoot, he seems to like spears and such things ;)
    No, spear range is quite ok now.

    They are medium Melee warriors now. "Mother" can easily 1vs1 mutant assuming she does first hit. Didn't tried other DCs.
    DC can't use spears or anything with weapon animation (spears, knives, clubs, firearms and so on). They can throw grenades, and sometimes better than any human recruit. They also can use almost any "non-weapon" skill, including vehicle driving ;)
  2. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Mar 14, 2010

    Thanks to all for the in-depth comments, which are very helpful.

    When trying to rescue the ghoul hookers, don't forget about the secret tunnel allowing access to the basement of the cathouse which allows characters who aren't good sneakers to be on hand and inside the room with the hostages in two turns once the fight starts. I usually send two soldiers into the tunnel to come up the staircase, while one soldier approaches/encircles the building from each of the top, bottom, and right sides. This leaves one squaddie remaining; if this person is a sniper I often put them on the roof of the building behind the Town Hall, or otherwise have them approach from top (direction of the church) since the door in that wall allows more depth of fire into the room than the "front door."


    Some other ideas to think about are:

    --Though skill improvement continues to offer marginal benefits all the way up to 300, I think the marginal cost to raise skills rises too high after any particular skill gets to around 150-160. I don't usually see a reason to raise any particular skill higher than that in FOT.
    --The way I typically use books is to help characters who are weak in an area catch up with the rest of the team rather than allow stars to ascend even higher. For example, a doctor character who spends most of his skill points on medicine would get weapon skill related books, while a sniper would get first aid books, etc.
    --Just as in FO/FO2, skill-bonus perks are an excellent value when taken by a character who is already specialized with a high skill-- though the system works slightly differently in FOT compared to the other games. For example, the Medic perk gives "+10%" to first aid and doctor skills. What this actually means is that a character who takes the perk will see a gross increase of ten points in each skill. If Joe's first aid skill is 45 and he takes Medic, his first aid will increase to 55; he could have also done this without a perk by spending ten skill points. On the other hand if Joe's first aid skill is 125 and he takes Medic, his first aid will rise to 135. To obtain a similar increase with skill point spending would have required Joe to spend 30 skill points.
    --The level cap in FOT is 50; however on my several playthroughs of Redux I never found a need to advance beyond levels 25-35 with my soldiers.

    Redux contains more books than the original game, as well as what I hope everyone will consider a better variety of books. For example since grenades are more useful in Redux, the characters may now find throwing skill books.

    At one point I was seriously considering raising the starting skill of all recruits to 50 in basic skills like small guns, throwing, and so forth to reflect the "benefits of basic training," but ultimately decided against this since I'm trying to make the game harder rather than easier. Yet perhaps the idea might be useful in some way some day.

    I don't often use the Leader perk, as in my own style of play soldiers aren't typically close enough to each other to enjoy the benefit; however if you use different tactics the perk could be very helpful. On charisma, if one has a say in the matter (as in a custom main character) I feel any character you may want to give a charisma of 6 should instead use one more point and get charisma 7; this way you can take a Gain Charisma perk raising the stat to 8 and become eligible for the Divine Favor perk, which reduces the perk rate for humans from 1/3 to 1/2 (new perk after only two gained levels).


    I didn't think of giving a skill bonus for reading the articles, but that's a good idea. The question then would be what particular skills to raise in each case; for example an article on radiation poisoning should probably raise first aid/doctor, but what skills should benefit from my adaptation of proverbs and adages for warriors from the Hagakure?

    This is sad but true, and unfortunately as TwoEyedYum noted very little can be done to address the issue (though as he noted the date/time are accessible in the status window by pressing "D").

    Your suggestions in Point 2 regarding recruits are very intriguing, but unfortunately aren't feasible for technical reasons; transferring units from player-controlled to AI-controlled isn't supported by the engine. In theory this could be simulated in separate missions (at the end of mission A Frank says he's fed up and is quitting, and in mission B Frank appears as an opponent), but no way exists to recreate the original unique character rather than a generic composite (for example if you had put all Frank's skills into Traps but another player might put all his points into Barter, "Frank" would be a very different character in each game and this can't be accomodated). Nonetheless abstracting the essence of your idea could provide the basis for some new and interesting missions. A similar end-result to what you propose could be achieved with dialogue, though likely not for characters directly available as player-controlled recruits rather than AI-controlled allies or acquaintances.

    Capturing the player-characters and removing their inventory is a venerable idea that is also fairly implausible for technical reasons :( . I recall reading once that some fellow had managed to come up with a way to sorta do this, but his method seemed hokey and too inflexible for broader use (nor were examples made available for inspection, as in typical unfortunate fashion he didn't offer a map for download and examination by others).

    You offered some good ideas regarding civilian AI. I think the question is: how do most players actually play the game? I noted I always "play it straight" as a soldier dedicated to my duty; FOT isn't meant to be and on a technical level isn't ever able to be an open-ended rpg like Fallout or Fallout 2 and player choice is mostly facilitated in details rather than broad options. What are the opinions of readers on this issue? Do you typically attack civilians in missions or random encounters, or do you play as a "good guy?" Facilitating better civilian AI is a worthy goal, but if few players would be affected by this feature then perhaps our modding time (always too limited) should be spent on things more likely to directly impact most playthroughs.

    "'Please, step into my web,' said the spider to the fly." My philosophy is if I ever see thousands of people running in one direction, I'm definitely going to start running as well-- in the opposite direction. :)

    Producing meaningful consequences in a map after the mission concludes is unfortunately another implausibility due to technical limitations. I very much wanted to add vendors and supporting characters to Quincy, for example, that appear if the player revisits the town after leaving and would show the town is now thriving peacefully under Brotherhood protection; sadly, we have no simple way to do such a thing. Another example is in Brahmin Woods-- originally some Brotherhood soldiers were meant to appear on the map and the Village Elder was meant to return after Freeport, but due to the game's technical limitations I wasn't able to restore that content for Redux.

    A bug regarding the function of the recruit master that cannot be fixed may be of some help to you if you're not already aware of the situation. Recruit experience "toggles" each time the player-character speaks to the recruit master. In other words upon first speaking to the recruit master recruits are auto-levelled with random perks, but leaving the recruit screen and speaking to the recruit master a second time restores the recruits to the experience level they were when last returned to the pool (or when they entered the pool if you've never taken an individual into the field). Thus if you've built specialized recruits and want them to keep your allocation of perks and skill points, check their character record while talking to the recruit master. If the record doesn't appear exactly as it did when you last returned them to the pool, exit the conversation and immediately speak with the recruit master a second time. This bug is present in all bunkers at all times.

    Within a few broader classes (the Sniper, the Big Gunner, the Doctor, etc), I think "jack-of-all-trades" is a good character strategy to pursue for recruits in FOT. As I noted earlier, I don't usually see any reason to raise skills higher than 150-160 even for dedicated specialists in any given skill. Instead I use perks for specialization, as some of them are quite useful in narrowly-considered circumstances. For example, as you noted Crazy Bomber is the Ultimate Perk for sappers (who will then never again fall victim to a trap); a doctor on the other hand is considerably enhanced by Healer and (in turn-based play) Stat. Part of the problem with the FOT perk system is that numerous similar perks are offered, but often only one of them is "the good one" and unless a player has studied a game guide beforehand or played numerous times he can easily make choices that seem good but in fact are not (for example, choosing Demolitions Expert instead of Crazy Bomber). I tried to clarify the function of perks in their descriptions to aid the player, but I felt a narrow line should be left uncrossed between providing more information as opposed to presenting value judgements (take this perk! don't take this one!) that may only be valid for one style of play. In other words, considerable room for improvement persists in this department.

    TwoEyedYum is correct in noting that while Deathclaws may use grenades, no other weapons are available to them (as they lack animations for such). On the matter of spears, I was tempted to simply get rid of them; the only reason I didn't was lack of time compared to more pressing matters I wanted to explore. I think the Beastlords would be a much more interesting enemy if they used the same or better weapons as the player-characters facing them rather than being relatively unchallenging opponents with inferior technology. I don't feel a point in the game currently exists where stone-age tech (quite interesting from a post-apocalyptic setting perspective) is compelling in FOT gameplay-- though certainly such could be explored in new missions prepended to Brahmin Woods or Freeport.


  3. drawnacrol

    drawnacrol It Wandered In From the Wastes

    Dec 5, 2010
    Just finished Quincy. I'm really enjoying this so far.

    The updated weapons are great. Especially since you can now use other weapons instead of having a squad loaded up with AK47s and hunting rifles for the first 5 missions. I've started using grenades more too since you added in the skill books.

    The new additions to the bunker add more of a brotherhood/group feel to the game so you don't feel like your the only squad doing anything.

    Its hard to know what else you've changed since I haven't played the game in a while but great work so far and looking forward to seeing what the later missions will be like.

    Things I would personally change:
    The recruit pool is now a lot better but there are to many with Small Guns/Sneak and Throwing tag skills. I don't use throwing much so I would mix it up a bit with first aid, repair, driving etc

    I don't think metal armor should be available so early in the game from the quartermaster. I ended up selling my sets and reverting back to leather since it unbalanced the game and I ended up with -20% sneak on some guys.
  4. 4too

    4too Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 30, 2003
    Rereading Furthers

    Rereading Furthers

    Doing something different, ^picked^ Way Of The Fruit not sure if Buff-Out lifts Strength longer, but no post peak crash. :D

    Doing something different, having more confidence about PC not dying at every ambush, but playing time is limited, so the temptation is to tweak Endurance down one, and feed Charisma.
    (Trust in finding the Gas Station Special Encounter …)

    I KNOW … a Cosmo - Make Over session!
    What a way to celebrate our pan cultural 'vive la difference'!
    But, would ya-all respect me in the morning … ;)

    Other day, re-scanning Redux install lit' and saw the suggested contextual seasoning.

    The academic level articles in board game magazines of the 1970's enhanced the limited face to face participation, filling in the gray areas between connecting the dots.

    Scratch through the superficial, Hollywood, "victors' history".
    Encouraged *do the homework* onward and beyond the class room.
    IMO … The major historical talking points are too well "travailed" and pass straight through (undigested) when not leavened by the 'cause and effect'.

    In 8 bit 'Wasteland', fire + maneuver squad tactics got the mighty ...

    …Scorpitron in three turns and zero causalities.

    Will have to go back to Bunker One for more than squeezing out the last med's and exotic shotgun ammo.

    Pardon my … poetic transgression ...

    "Hidden by the Leaves"

    Travel light on commerce plain

    Letting go, win more


    :aiee: Banzai! :aiee:

  5. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    Jan 21, 2010
    BTW, didn't see any "throwing" books so far (starting Osceola now). The only new book is "Brain Surgery for Dummies" - LOL'ed at that :)

    +1 to this.
    Also absence of good Big Gun carriers makes me sad. I mean, Earl is a joke as BG specialist, as he only can wield those "half-machineguns", and even that doesn't give any good results. On short distances Jackhammers do just fine, and on medium/long distances i use MX14 and Apex Sniper, as there's almost unlimited source of ammo: i've had like 14K of 8mm, 3K of 7mm, 2K of 6mm (not that i used this much, and i still don't like miniguns).

    Also got Ripper on my sneaky Hannigan and plasma pistol on main hero. Later i found some trader encounters and got even more interesting weapon... In Kanzas i defended two entries almost without any heavy weapons. Too much AP to use, too low range. Mutants, btw, also feel this and do any damage only through "burst bug" or at very close distance.

    As i progress in game, my main idea is that setting BG AP cost fixed (not affected by FS/BRF) AND setting it to 8 is overkill. I like idea of it not being lowered to 4 (or even 3 for some mutants), but it deserves to be fixed 6 AP for all machineguns. Bazooka is fine with 8AP. Avenger and Vindicator also may use 8AP, but also throw more bullets in one shot.

    BTW, easily traded 6 grand mines for 2 Vindicators right after Macomb. Entered SE with 2 BOS "bad" guys, then placed 3 mines around each of them. Then sneaked up to corner of "bunker" and "revealed" myself to them. They ran away and... No Karma or reputation changes, 2 free Vindicators and some ammo.

    Something changed in Peoria. Now "turn the switch" mini-game doesn't work as it did in original game. I opened inner doors for 3-4 seconds, never had any delays... When i returned to village, i found half of it razed by turrets. I assume now we have only one "good" way to deal with it - kill turrets with maximum available firepower, sending only one squaddie to switch.

    As you see, metal armor has serious downside. Very serious, considering you wouldn't approach most of enemies directly (on Hard or Extreme difficulty), you want to sneak into best firing position before making first shoot. That early metal armor gives not enough defence considering player's and squaddies HP. Still it may be used on one squaddie to "tank" misc damage on medium distances.
  6. RasterOps

    RasterOps First time out of the vault

    Dec 19, 2003
    I have found at least two throwing books thus far, prior to Quincy. What I haven't found is any Lock-picking books.

    There are two door sets that I have yet to open and I can't find any keys. One set is in Quincy, it is the Hangman's gates. The other set is in Coldwater, the top level double doors. A Perception of 11 and an Agility of 10 using performance enhancing drugs modifies the skill to 157 using an Expanded Lockpick set and it "looks difficult".

    I found a Tech Manual in Macomb I think. It's description indicates a Knight or Scribe might be interested. I have no idea who if anyone wants this or if it is Base dependent.

    Speaking of recruits, Earl has a contempt for authority but he's a Brown Noser. LOL
  7. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    Jan 21, 2010
    Osceola finished. I was completely dissapointed by miniguns. Wendy with 150 BG skill, nice perception and so on... she just can't kill mutant in 5-10 hexes range with Avenger! Mutants receive 5-15 damage from whole minigun burst right into their faces!

    So i reloaded mission and continued with old good tactic - snipers snipe and Hannigan rapes everything in stealth with 2-3 hits of Ripper. Usually i aim to legs, as it often leads to broken weapon - less chances of retaliate burst. I don't use their current weapons now anyway, and they may be sold just fine.

    Btw, you can break grenade in mutant hand, and he will switch to HtH attacks :) In his inventory you'll later find 24 normal +1 broken grenade :)

    I don't understand whole machineguns balance. Vostok and Camden E36 stated as LMG opposed to "serious" MGs like C60/M2. But only Vostok can deal some damage at medium distances. C60 and such guns 80% of time can't scratch anyone. I dunno what wrong with them. They are "fine" in close combat (you jump from the corner and fire into enemy face by surprise), but Jackhammer is still superior for this.

    I still like text and item additions like "Zeppelin book" near Roshambo. On the other side, i don't see how it impacts mission results (no bonus exp on pick up or after debrief), while item says smth like "Scribes would like to see it". Are such items supposed to give real bonus for their finding?

    Edit: in Junction City found "meant to be deleted" weapon - MP38. Found on body of North Gate enforcer, cannot say which one, as they all ran right into Reaver base (and met their end).
  8. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Mar 14, 2010

    drawnacrol and TwoEyedYum make good points on the tag skill-sets of the recruits. All such comments are very helpful, as I knew further (likely substantial) adjustment would be required for the recruits and chose to be conservative in the initial release of the mod by sticking to universally-appealing skills like small-guns, etc. Do many players use Super-Mutant soldiers? At the moment, most of the Super-Mutants are primarily melee fighters; as this duplicates the sole purpose of the Deathclaw characters, perhaps more Mutants should be switched over to Big Guns and Energy Weapons rather than Melee/Unarmed. The reason I didn't do this sooner was to allow time for feedback on whether my explanation for FOT Super-Mutant lack of intelligence seemed plausible. In other words, in Fallout/Fallout 2 many if not most mutants are articulate and mentally capable-- but in FOT Microforte seemed to think mutants were meant to be based on the Incredible Hulk (Hulk Smash! GRRR!) and hence too dimwitted to operate advanced weaponry. I attempted to explain this by stipulating that all the best and brightest mutants were officers/leaders who were wiped out in the Vault Dweller's day, and only the mutant rabble were left alive to flee eastward.

    I'm reading you as saying the sneak penalty was temporary while the armor was worn, which is normal (bulkier armors have even more substantial penalties and nearly make sneaking impossible even for highly skilled characters). Regarding the early availability and strength of metal armor, I was concerned about play balance for lesser skilled players. Particularly in light of Redux's reduction in random encounters (which restricts the option to accomodate lesser skilled players by allowing them to build precociously powerful characters via exploration), I was worried some players might find gameplay with high damage-value weapons too frustrating. Yet work remains to be done on the quartermaster list (as well as Kain the Trader, as TwoEyedYum mentioned earlier) to find the best balance for the broadest array of players.


    I always end up with many extra pineapples (or whatever those mutated fruit plants are), so you should have no trouble maintaining a steady supply for a Way of the Fruit character. This is also a good perk for Big Gunners who lack adequate strength (Vindi, etc) to comfortably wield the biggest guns without Power-Armor.

    Unfortunately due to technical limitations we could never add a barber/hairstylist to the bunkers to enhance charisma directly (trigger-based stat manipulation isn't sufficiently supported), but other options may be explored. On a side note, I was able to restore functionality for Grandma who owns the Gas Station, and she will now chat with the characters while her lovely :wink: portrait is displayed.

    My own background in gaming has similar roots; I guess this is often my subtle inspiration to include similar materials in most of my FO/FOT modding efforts.


    I believe at least a dozen throwing books (or perhaps more) should be available here and there, though thorough searching may be required to find most treasures not directly looted from enemy corpses; I'm glad to hear RasterOps has found several. Only a few Doctor-skill books are available, though as in the original game numerous first aid books remain in circulation. I'd like to add more doctor books in the future as excess stimpacks are removed from play, since I feel the player should be encouraged to develop medic characters rather than rely on stimpacks.

    Thanks for your comments on game balance regarding heavy weapons; I agree the category needs much more work. Perhaps the better solution would be to diminish the range of rifles and sniper rifles, and further increase the damage of the larger machine guns. At the moment the choice for the player seems to be use the lighter SAW type machine guns (cheap AP cost) or the 14mm Bronson M2 (best damage), leaving the other machine guns without much appeal. Another idea I'm favoring is to further increase the Action Points of Super Mutants-- but this time substantially rather than only a bit as is currently the case in Redux. If mutants were able to unleash two rockets or two bursts from a 14mm machine gun per turn, gameplay involving mutants could change considerably.

    I'm in favor of simply getting rid of miniguns (rotary/chain guns), as they are bound to disrupt game balance no matter how they function and I think the weapons themselves are hard to take seriously as a general idea. How do others feel about this issue? Does the appeal of the idea of miniguns outweigh the practical considerations of their inclusion in the game?

    I'll modify these fellows next time so their weapons aren't lootable. I very much dislike that Special Encounter in its current form; though not quite as silly as many of the others, in the future if time allows I'd like to redesign that map. The player-characters will arrive just as civilians begin to riot for food/medicine/etc, and the player may choose to join in the policing action, watch and cover later for the two troopers at the bunker, watch and turn the two soldiers at the bunker in for disciplinary action, or fight the BOS at the bunker (perhaps the Generals would even approve the player's action).

    Did you play Preoria in turn-based or CTB? Though I made a number of changes to the mission, I can't recall changing the behavior of the surface turrets and in my various playthroughs (TB mode) I haven't noticed any unusual activity regarding the switch/doors/turrets associated with the final area of the installation.

    Thanks for info on that stray MP38; I'll look more closely at the Junction City map.


    Though there aren't any lock-picking books in the original or modified game, perhaps I should add some (easily accomplished). Don't forget that lockpicks give a bonus to the lockpicking skill, and holding two lockpicks (one in each hand) gives a larger bonus (this works with all items of similar function, such as repair kits etc).

    I generally changed the function of many otherwise useless doors in the game; if interacting with a door will always result only in "does nothing," then why have doors? In the case of the particular doors you mentioned, the cell door at Quincy is nearly impossible to lockpick (as intended); regarding the doors at Coldwater, the boss there should now have a key that will unlock the doors and allow easier access to the building after his troops are eliminated.

    A number of minor items like the tech manual RasterOps mentioned and others TwoEyedYum mentioned are placeholders for possible future content, but currently don't do much other than hopefully add a smidge of further richness to the game world. If you find a non-weapon item but can't find anywhere to "use" it, don't worry-- you're most likely not missing anything.


  9. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    Jan 21, 2010
    Now i've got several to choose from and immediately swapped Mother with Wemp (possibly not that name). He has nice stats for BG specialist and also looks like Nightkin ^^ With advanced Mutant Armor he can battle groups of enemies with MGs - he won't kill anyone fast, but he can survive long enough for others to finish the job.

    Now game looks more tactical, and less "snipe 'em all".
    Other mutants also look just fine. Some of them are great melee warriors (AND grenadiers - don't ask why) now. Others have enough potential for using Laser Gatling and normal MGs. And unlike DCs, they don't need to hide 100% of time.

    You don't need to.

    While most of them are em... not clever, we see many who can speak normally and show signs of decent intellect. I mean they at least not worse than some of BOS warriors. In Jefferson and Osceola we see such mutants - lieutenants of sort, as they listen to orders via radio and tell mates what to do. Their IN can vary from 2 to 6-7. "HULKS" are considered to be low-rank soldiers, and they do so just fine.
    Also Gammorin's diary gives information about his fellow mutants.

    It's so sad you can't explore Modern Guns mod right now...
    Some of those issues had been adressed here, in a quite balanced way (most balanced of available ones). It had special reward system along with implants - rare and very costly modificators (like +1AG, +20% traps and lockpick) which you can buy from QM.

    I think you did something like that with that "Battle manual" (can't remember where i found it) - book which raises several skills. I think you also based it on drug, not on book :)

    Yeah, i search everywhere, but sometimes i reload and may forget to search those places second time :)
    Found these books later, along with EW books, doctor manuals and others.

    Yeah, that the best idea. Also add some serious disadvantage for Super/Ultra stimpacks - maybe even some serious overdose. I'll look into Modern Gun files to tell more, as this mod had this balance issue covered in a way i liked :)

    Can't say i like current AP system, as it's quite bugged. "Melee" AP cost still isn't fixed. Mutant can take Steady Arm + Bonus HtH Attack and fire for 6 AP. Human only can get 7 AP cost. I dunno who suffer more.

    Actually me too. Reavers freely run around with Vindicators - that picture makes me mad. And there's not enough resources to balance this. The only way would be to change requirements into ST=11, EN=9 and limit those weapons to very few opponents who really can take advatage of it.

    Either this (and increase amount of bullets per burst) or remove miniguns from game.

    Hm, i played it in CTB (realtime, right?) as always.

    BTW. Did you try to show timer for those turrets? Is it possible to reset timer and show it again every time you turn off>on switch?

    Well, they do :) I like to look into those misc things (especially info holodisks). Just wondered how important for gameplay they are.

    Btw, EW manual looks just like another source of info. This may lead to unwanted usage by wrong character. Maybe change inventory info or image a little so people can recognize this as "skill" book.

    I support this idea.

    P.S.: some guys have more ammo than they need. Guys with MX14 also have some 7mm or 8mm ammo, but they don't have such weapons.

    P.P.S.: Here's edited version of Great Bend map. Look at it, maybe it's now better suited for Vehicle :)
  10. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Mar 14, 2010

    I tried twice to examine your Great Bend map, but something seems wrong with the file; I downloaded the mis two times to rule out file corruption during transit, so could you verify the item on your side? Thanks as well for your many other fine suggestions; I'll look at the turret timer and the EW book image in particular. :clap:
  11. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    Jan 21, 2010
    Well, file works just fine for me, i've already tested it.
    OH SHI...
    Sorry, just open it with FT Improver, it has FT Tools in it too. I just edited and saved mission in Improver, and now it (probably) can't be reverted to "normal" state.
    Anyway it's just an idea, i could give a final "normal" version if you feel it would be nice addition to Great Bend.

    BTW, at least 2 robots in Great Bend junkyard have Camden E9 (uses 7mm) and 6mm ammo in inventory. So they attack in melee. Look at them anyway.

    About Pneumatic Press. Some ideas:
    1) It would be completely removed from Great Bend and taken into another SE.
    2) As there's quite few actual robots in that area, you could add many more scurry-bots with few melee "broken" but still dangerous humanoids, so player would use Press to destroy them all. Number of bots in that area would be so big that without Press player wouldn't be able to survive surprise encounter... I'd spread idea even further (with need of "repairing" some voltage cables or generators for Press to work), if someone interested.

    Lifter should be removed from here, as it will block passage with its body.

    While editing map i looked into tags, triggers and some gates. What plagues me is strange gates placement. I talk about last gate, which open into small "balcony", from which player would climb down, walk a little, climb up and then return to starting point. Now map preview directly tells us to return into starting point after completing mission. Well, ok, but green zone also appears near crushed Pacificator bot (on south edge of map, where dead SM lies). This makes last gate quite useless, and unability to open/lockpick it becomes weird. Switch near pacificator opens nearly gate AND this "exit" gate". So if you are able to open this gate, you don't need it anymore ^^
    IMHO all this should be remade sooner or later...

    Also, i wonder how those top-roof snipers in Coldwater could get into their position, as player can't reach this floor by stairs or anything. How they've got there? :)
  12. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Mar 14, 2010

    You have some good ideas on the Machine Press in Great Bend. I think the best solution would be to somehow tie the Press in with the Pacification Bot, though I'm not sure what details might make sense. Perhaps the Pacification bot could be moved under the press, with the remaining robots attempting to destroy it before the BOS can capture it; or perhaps the robots could use the Press as a last line of defense-- sniper robots could man towers near the press inside the fence, firing on the BOS who would then need to disable the Press to access the (moved) Pacification bot. I'm not certain either of those ideas are really any better than what you've proposed, though.

    I gave more than a passing thought to the enemies on the highest/inaccessible tier of Coldwater. A cursory building is also on that tier, and I considered adding a ladder inside the boss room for ascent; ultimately, I felt this wasn't worth the effort to allow the player-characters to loot a few more rifles and ammo that will only sell for pennies on the dollar at the Quartermaster. Presumably the top-tier guards have the secret "Climber" perk to explain how they got up there. :)

    I still haven't had an opportunity to look at your Great Bend map (actually I haven't had an opportunity to even start up FOT or the Mapper due to lack of hobby time), but hope to check it out soon as well as take a more detailed look at some of the other matters you mentioned. I agree the non-functional gate/door along the trench doesn't make sense, and should be modified to open once the exit grids are on, modified in some other useful way, or be eliminated. In the future I think another modification of the Great Bend map will be to get rid of the windows in the building with the load lifters/security bots near the starting area. This building was badly designed by MF; I already added a door to allow players possibly trapped by dead robots to escape, but forgot to address the window situation which is obnoxious since a character going for the locker on the walkway is often attacked by humanoid bots in the junkyard, who should properly be minding their own area rather than peering into distant windows.

  13. 4too

    4too Vault Senior Citizen

    Apr 30, 2003


    With 'Way Of The Fruit', was happy to stabilize a one point boost.

    Playing on, and encouraged by Redux Mod's supply of rations, use food to top off those few missing hit points,
    so not to burn the med kits / bags at both ends.

    Using fruit as food for my Way Of The Fruit character, casually, not often.

    During some distracted play noticed the infamous Stat Change floating over charater's head.

    So eat more fruit, again Stat Change WTF eat another, … Stat Change ...

    Distraction resolves with out *tears* and focus on PC Stats … W-TF!

    W-TF! now = Way (of) The Fruit! :aiee:

    No. Was not expecting to get that on going stat change.

    Can't remember when I've had a primary FO character (except maybe Marcus) wielding the heaviest heavy-s this early
    in the game, not before *pow-AH AH-mour*.

    A burst of 10 14mm really does clean house. ;)


    //////////////////// Edit ///////// 8-8-12

    Special Ed

    Tried to pick up The Pipboy with squad of 5.

    Special encounter Pipboy (with Luck 10) would not join.

    Tried several times, only the recruit (with Luck 4) appeared back at base 4.

    Took the opportunity of (self) interest and scanned the tags, Pipboy join squad with less than 6

    Noticed save pic had double image of 5th NPC.

    Duplicated 'image' hint at a de-facto sixth? The APC a 6th Entity? How Disney! ;)

    Sent a squad of 4 and The Pipboy 'team' joined the human team right there in the old playground.

    Dangerously close to Special Encounter max, and won't go looking for any more, intentionally.

    Riddick did show up in Base 3 recruit pool.

    Shooting and looting Mutants and Reavers for exp points AND 14 mm and 40 mm ammo.

    Trying to mix in a few of the second and third string recruits to see how the other builds might play through.

  14. Tom9k

    Tom9k Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Dec 21, 2007
    Just to be sure: that will testing machine in Bunker Alpha is supposed to giving 3400exp each time we use it?
  15. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    Jan 21, 2010
    2 Tom9k: Yeah, in case someone wants to test game quickly.
  16. GreyViper

    GreyViper Where'd That 6th Toe Come From?

    Jul 2, 2004
    Few things that should bee looked at.

    * Assault Rifles at start could use a bit of balancing. When you compare Canden E9 to Stu, the difference makes no sense. Shouldn't Stu have more range, being bullpup gun and all with integrated scope. Yet its 16 range is making it a SMG and inferior to MP5.
    My suggestion either start short barrel ARs from range 20 and long barrel ARs to 25-30 range.

    *Heavy Flamer and why should anybody use it? Right now its AP cost is tied to heavy weapons, yet its CQ weapon that wont kill with 1 burst. My suggestion tone the AP down to 4-5, maybe then it has some use.

    *Big Gun AP point system is broken, meaning traits and perks don't work on them. Fast shoot bonus rate of fire have no effect what so ever. It more annoying when taking fast shoot, because its tailored for bursting char build.

    *Energy weapons, adore them nothing bad to say. Yet wouldn't it make sense for plasma to have most power yet less range to laser.
    That way laser rifles wont get ignored, because right now plasma is just way better.

    *Missing weapons. What happened to quick firing P90c that was supposed to be top tier SMG with smallest AP cost? Because right now I didn't manage to find it in Beast Lords base. Second being Neostead bursting shotgun, its gone to.

    *APC could use a hit point boost, right now its is just to weak.
  17. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Mar 14, 2010

    Thanks. Some of those matters are covered in the documentation or earlier, but I'll add the others to things I'll consider when I resume work on Redux. You make a good point on the flamethrower and the vehicle HP.

    I see "laser" weapons as highly ineffective except at very short ranges; this is why we don't use them today "in real life" despite their potential effectiveness under some circumstances. In sci-fi movies and fiction, I think pretty much every handheld "blaster" we see is in fact a plasma-technology based weapon. What do others think?
  18. TwoEyedYum

    TwoEyedYum Naked Moose

    Jan 21, 2010
    In sci-fi laser weapons often associated with accuracy and quite long range, while plasme associated with extreme power and danger of explosion (i've just remembered WH40K).

    For me, it'd be ok if laser weapons were between sniper and heavy weapons in terms of range. Some armor penetration but less damage would be nice also.

    But one thing comes in :(
    Currently all weapons use same ammo. It means, they can't actually do different types of damage (Pulse rifle still does energy damage, not electrical), because ammo damage type overwrites weapon settings. For same reason we can't make different AP and damage settings for Laser, Plasma and Pulse weapons. That's that until each weapon starts using its own unique ammo. Dunno, maybe MFCs for Laser and P-MFC for Plasma. Also special energy cells for electrical weapons.
  19. Aeqvinox

    Aeqvinox First time out of the vault

    Dec 2, 2012
    Dear Endocore,

    I would like to congratulate you for creating this mod, no, for conceiving it rather. It's astonishing that we had to wait this long for a man with the right ideas. From what i understand, yours is the first and only such extensive mod that deals specifically with recuperation of the original campaign and in turn - attempting to provide a fix for the shoddy work of Microforte.

    That said, if i were to rate your creation, i would give you a 10 for idea and effort... though much less for execution.

    Honestly, after playing only the first two missions, checking out all sorts of things in the editor and reading the readme + both threads about Redux, i don't feel like this mod would give me good replay value for the campaign.

    I don't like a lot of things you did, how you did them, while some of your ideas are spot on. I'll share more details later on.

    About me.

    I wouldn't call myself a fully fledged FOT modder, i barely touched scripting/triggers, but i have a decent knowledge about all the other aspects of FOT editor, what file does what etc. I came to NMA just now to look for Barrett rifle sprites which i wanted to use my own personal attempt to revitalize the original campaign. And then i found Redux.

    Complete intoxication with the FOT demo, is where i'm coming from. Back in the day, it was a work of art for me. I replayed it what must've been like 20 times. It was challenging and unforgiving, the tactics engine felt great. Then when i got my hands on the full product, probably like most people i was disappointed.

    Few years back is actually when i dusted off FOT and dived into the 1.27 editor for the first time. Sadly my work consisting of several finished, highly detailed maps (including my pride - a huge, ruined/opened vault and cave network map, mostly unexplored by a tribe of descendants living on the surface in a hillside village (plot starting location)), countless entities and whatnot got destroyed along with my HDD. I was probably 30% well underway to release my own single player mod (working title "Tribes"), so when all this work went to hell i gave up.

    Today, the nostalgia and odd longing for the thrills i experienced in the demo ages ago, brought me back once more to tinker in the editor. This time i wanted to take it easy, and just spice up the original campaign for myself, so that i can replay it and actually have fun. Fallout Tactics Enhanced.

    About Redux.

    I launched it, and my first impressions were mixed. One one hand, it felt great in STB/Hard mode. Use of sneak and cover are a necessity, and stuff actually DIES WHEN SHOT for crying out loud. Nothing broke the immersion for me more in the original, than having to stuff unarmored enemies with lead so they die of heavy metal poisoning in order to kill them. So yes, while your approach has sparked a lightbulb over my head on how to make the game more enjoyable, one thing i don't understand is why you greatly diminished the uniqueness of most weapons by assigning them the same damage range.

    Then i went to the bunker, i found the extra content and lore interesting. And then i bought two pieces of Metal Armor with 25 AC... I ran through the second mission on CTB/Normal in under 10 minutes. Run and gun with two recruits, 7 and 10 PE, 90 and 100 SG, Hunting Rifles. I didn't get hit once. Now why did none of these raiders pose any threat to me at all? That was a big let down. Armor Class was handled "ok" in vanilla, there is a reason Metal Armor has less AC than Leather, it's because AC is a combination dodge, deflection and size, while thresh/res is the actual protection. So, the heavier metal and enviro armors offer less AC due to weight and size (still enough to justify defletion only) but more T/R, Leather has more AC mainly due to mobility and size, but less T/R; Power has all in abundance because it adresses all aspects of protection.

    That finally reassured me that Redux has balance issues of its own, and is but a step in the right direction. I can imagine that i'd find more overpowered approaches, or more of the same as vanilla. To quote you loosely, Redux is an excellent base for modders to pick up and make the original campaign better.

    I won't get into too many details, since your mod is very extensive, and my post already has the "wall of text" status, so let me just pinpoint a few likes and dislikes:

    - increased weapon damage (realism)
    - ammo tweaks (setting my "ammo762mm.ent" to FMJ was the first thing i did after installing FOT)
    - tweaked enemies (though sadly only slightly; i was hoping for new or relocated guys on the maps, with waypoints and whatnot)
    - bonus lore and content (lets you get your mind off of the mission-to-mission cycle of violence; immersion)
    There's not much to discuss here, what's good is good, you've put a lot of heart into it. I also liked the small touches like including custom loading screens, or tutorial on how to make custom reactive music (though i couldn't be arsed, i just use the custom music switch with an assortment of original FO1/2 music plus a bit of Kenji Kawaii and Aphex Twin ambient tunes;).

    1. Content overrides!
    I know that this might probably be a matter of taste or even common approach by NMA community, that FOT has strayed from FO1/2 canon with all the modern world weapons and whatnot, and that it deserves to be undone and forgotten.

    But really, i'm sure Microforte guys did their best to pull through with the development of FOT, under the circumstances of fear of starvation and lacerations inflicted by a whip-wielding evil publisher... I say, give them credit where credit is due. FOT is their concept. It is meant to have real world weapons because it's more of a tactical game based on Fallout, not a Fallout RPG sequel. I can't speak for everyone, but with weapons being the primary gameplay tools of FOT, i want to experience something that i can relate to.

    Furthermore, based on my respect for the original work of Microforte, i strongly dislike all description and infocard re-writes which frankly feel too invasive. I didn't even use your locale\ files, otherwise i would be forced to learn which Xmm caliber bullet works with which new gun, very confusing stuff all around (plus all the "one" and "one's" would be infuriating ;) ).

    Simply put, i personally dislike an approach of re-writing the original content, and would much more prefer enhancement and enrichment of gameplay for the campaign only. Fixing, tweaking and bonuses - not discarding, re-writing and replacing.

    2. General balance issues.
    This is a dislike, but i'm very well aware that a really good balancing work might be nearly impossible for FOT. Myself i haven't touched it yet on a campaign scale, so my opinion is just based on limited observations and projections of Redux, which is an extensive re-balance mod.

    I suspect you playtested Redux only in turn based modes, while CTB is my favourite simply because i enjoy micro managing my guys in real time and making use of my reflexes. CTB and turn based are very different, and i realize balancing the game for one might possibly make the game imbalanced for the other mode. For example, in CTB, enemies are denied their overwatch stance, because they'll be fired upon by more than one character, and their overwatch will be interrupted.

    3. Machine guns with single shot mode.
    Afaik they don't exist;] Meaning, machine guns which have a mechanism allowing for firing a single bullet, because frankly that's not their purpose.

    Then again, it is somewhat possible to fire a single shot with a machine gun. I managed, sometimes, with a 7.62x51 mm PKM. I tried it while i was in the Polish army, in order to benefit from increased accuracy of the first shot, and to score more target hits than others (limited ammo on excersizes). And yes, it sometimes worked, but the effort put into squeezing and releasing the trigger just right, directly translated to how long it took me to burn through my clip, and how much more my index finger hurt due to trigger recoil with every shot, which was generally counter productive to my overall accuracy. In real combat situations, the vast majority of soldiers spray and pray anyway, even with assault rifles that have a dedicated single shot mode apart from automatic.

    Long story short, it's a bit of a stretch.

    Now, to sum my lengthy post.

    Don't get me wrong, i think Redux is a great mod for two reasons. First is the scope of the mod, which aims to fix and improve the original experience. Second is your own bonus content. It's only the way you went about it that doesn't go well with my personal taste, which doesn't mean it's bad or people don't find it enjoyable.

    And so, let me tell you how i would see an ideal mod of this kind, to which creation i would gladly contribute. I won't claim i can do better than Redux on my own, but if a team of modders were to gather and work together, we could make something brilliant.

    How? In short (for now).

    0. Keep as much of the original content intact as possible. Meaning - don't override descriptions, spr's and zar's of weapons, recruits and perks etc.

    1. Add new content.
    - Missions: For starters, import the two maps from demo, second of which is of superior quality to the majority of FOT maps, in terms of detail and complexity imho (honestly check it out). Ask around for allowance, incorporate (after modifications) suitable maps from existing mods into FOT campaign. Make new ones if necessary. Point here is to expand the original map/mission pool so that weapon progression and campaign length are stretched out.
    - Weapons, ammo and items: FOT vanilla indeed has only a few usable weapons, some are being obtained too late to consider using, some are simply useless. Basically, balance existing and new weapons, so that each is unique and justifies consideration of use, rather than loot. Ammo types are somewhat lacking. Armor progress is weird and lacking (Leather2->Metal2->Power).
    - Lore: that's self explanatory, like what you did with BoS bunkers and new "useless" items, Endocore.

    2. Put it all together: new maps, entities etc, into (and in between) the existing campaign.
    Fix and tweak everything, from typos and bugs, through actor, recruit and weapon stats, to map layouts (cover, non-linear paths) and enemy numbers, placement, waypoints and equipment.
    Create new balance continuity for the (new and expanded) entire campaign.

    3. End goal: to expand and enhance the original FOT game in terms of missions, difficulty and content, but to leave the original content largely intact. Balancing the game out, so that it is difficult throughout the entire campaign, for CTB and STB, for Normal and Hard alike; requiring innovation and change of tactics instead of "run and gun". A smidge of out-of-the-box thinking here and there would be necessary to deal with things like item/weapon availability, difficulty, and as mentioned before: issues with burst mode, random encounters and whatever else there is that's broken, but might be worked around so it feels all right. Make the game truly accessible to various types of characters, weapons and play styles. Where vanilla plays mostly like this: first part of the game = 6x hunting rifle/ak47, second part = 6x SAW/Sniper Rifle, third part = 6x plasma/pulse rifle, make it so it's possible to have real melee brawls vs raiders, lots of traps and explosions vs mutants, and anti-materiel rifles vs robots, off the top of my head.

    4. Bunch of examples and thoughts.
    - Raiders plot starting out under very poor conditions (Fallout1/2). Scarcity of guns as opposed to better unarmed/melee/throwing weapons. Not all recruits have armor. For example, like in mission 2, dozens of AK-47's and Scorpio's could be replaced by a wider variety of rifles, smg's and pistols, plus other weapons in hands of enemies that know how to use them to the general detriment of your health.
    - Really good weapons (upgrades upon what you have) are unique, and scavenged from enemies that know how to use them and will hurt you bad. Example scenario, first hunting rifle in second or third mission, in hands of a real sniper that's located where he and his pals can actually deal damage before you get to him (think mission 1, where there -is- a marksman tower, but facing the wrong way, so he doesn't see your guys storming the fortified position; this wasn't fixed in Redux).
    - Raiders plot extended to i.e. 6-7 missions. Beastmen to 5-6, Mutants to 5-6. In other words, make more room to get yourself immersed and have your progress paced out more evenly. Increased difficulty + more missions = as much as 2 or even 3 times long gameplay.
    - A single Barrett M82 anti-materiel rifle in the game, and a highly scarce amount of special ammo that is not worth using with M2 browning, except perhaps if you really want to save it all vs Behemoths (and still you'd maybe have 1 or 2 bursts worth of one type). A second anti-materiel Barrett M99 or Steyr HS .50 (single-shot bolt action) in a special encounter/merchant or late in the game. Both using single expensive AP cost.
    Example of real world .50 cal ammo that could be used in these rifles (apart from DU which if i'm not mistaken is fictional for this caliber, and available in random encounters apart from the first mutant mission; should be removed or reduced and changed to refined +50/+40 anyway): .50 cal AP (-25/+50) poor man's DU; .50 cal Co (-11/+30) piercing composite; .50 JHP (+60/-25 or something), .50 Ex (+60/+11).
    Purpose of these weapons is to allow your lovely main sniper (or Dillion) not to get brought down to the plasma rifle wielding grunts level. Scarcity of special ammo would mean that you can take one mutant/robot out before you get stormed, so you have to choose wisely, and probably in STB mode.

    (semi TL;DR)
    I think i'm gonna end this rampage prematurely. You get the idea anyway, i can always continue spewing text at you folks at a later date. For now i just wanted to express my opinion on what i think is a long overdue initiative, and how we could possibly carry it on. Enhancing the campaign, into a FOT 2.0 is what somehow seems to me as the logical first step that the modders should have made long time ago, with all the disappointment upon release. Getting the editor later on should have initiated a desire to get all the existing content (which is technically free and ready to go), fix it, and make it bigger and better. FOT is still a very enjoyable engine, a mix of an RPG and a tactical game, i'm not sure but it might even be unique?

    I played only a handful of FOT mods, Awaken among others, and i didn't really like them. They felt weird, even wrong at times, because a lot of them tried to make FOT into a FO, and a tactical game is ill suited for this. So how about we make a good tactical game instead?
  20. Endocore

    Endocore Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    Mar 14, 2010

    Thank you for your comments, Aeqvinox. In my opinion, no post articulating interesting ideas is ever 'tl;dr' so feel free to express yourself.

    This is fairly representative of my own sentiments. The historical truth is most Fallout Tactics mods pondered have never seen the light of day precisely because modders wanted to have 'Fallout with the FOT engine' but quickly realized the utter impracticality (and in many cases outright impossibility) of concocting such a hybrid; therefore they gave up and moved on to modding some other game rather than contribute to make a better FOT qua FOT. I released the Redux materials not because I felt any particular detail was sublime, but merely because in general I feel the game would not be left in the miserable state it is today (soon to be completely forgotten, with most saying 'good riddance') if anyone had done something similar years ago. This project is more than anything else about getting people thinking and talking about Fallout Tactics in the hope a few of them may be inspired to take some action to make a better game the entire community can enjoy.

    I appreciate your many detailed comments and constructive criticisms, as such feedback is vital to the exercise of modcraft. I did indeed only play in turn-based mode, as I don't care for CTB, and you are correct that game-balance between the several modes of play is very difficult; this is in fact one of the longest standing and most incorrigible aspects of the game, stemming directly from its schizophrenic nature, that has caused all serious modders over the previous decade to shrug their shoulders in despair. I don't have a solution myself, except to keep plugging away and trying different experiments. In general, I agree with much of what you wrote and feel the rest of your insights are interesting and valuable.

    I do strongly disagree with two notions you presented, but these are likely matters of temperment or taste; in other words, vive la difference. In the fictional Fallout universe, the Apocalypse occurs on 23 October 2077. Even if in my opinion inclusion of 'real world' weapons modelled in considerable detail were not inherently disdainful to an otherwise fanciful setting, the presumption that sixty-five years in the future contemporary weapons like 'Beretta M92FS' or 'M4A1' will be anything but rusting scrap metal and frayed plastic (much less commonplace, much less amidst a world with laser rifles) is not very prudent even if we take 'realism' as our guidepost. Our second point of disagreement concerns the respect due the original developers' intentions and work. My only concern in this regard is to practicality and what's fun to play. If the original developers had a good idea I respect them for it, but if they shovelled out junk at the behest of some pinhead in 'marketing' or 'publishing' I see no reason to either accept such or pay homage to such. On the other hand, this is a long-standing genuine difference of philosophy between the larger communities of North American and Eurasian Fallout modding cousins (you mentioned you were from Poland); the same sorts of arguments were often posed regarding Fallout and Fallout 2, with the Eurasians taking a very conserative approach and reluctant to change almost any detail whilst the North Americans feel the game is now ours to do with as we please since the original developers long ago abandoned any interest much less support of the games (corresponding precisely to the moment they cashed their final checks from the publishers). This is not a problem; the great thing about the modding hobby and community is sufficient room exists for both approaches to be pursued as thoroughly as any individual modder wishes in his own work.

    In a future version I think I'll likely remove the metal armor availability in Bunker One, as several others have like yourself expressed concerns about game balance on that count. In truth I never bought it during my several playtests, since I prefer stealthy characters and metal armor interferes with sneaking (in fact my teams usually wear leather armor all the way up until the last mission or two, except perhaps for a big gunner squaddie in metal/power armor).

    My conception of the damage-caliber relation was outlined earlier, but to reiterate my general idea-- while a weapon's quality of manufacture certainly affects its rate of fire and even its range, a given sized bullet is only so big, travels at such-and-such velocity, and does x amount of damage on impact regardless of the weapon from which it is fired. A .45 slug fired from my trusty M1911 does the same amount of damage to a target as a .45 slug fired from a hastily assembled zip gun consisting of a steel pipe and a nail; the only difference is that to hit the target in the first place I'll probably need to press the zip gun against the target while with my M1911 I can reliably aim from twenty feet away. This isn't to say my approach in Redux is necessarily the best, nor certainly the only conceivable, design; it's merely the approach I favor, and the one I used since I made the mod.

    This mod is not only far from complete, it is currently far from adequate. Yet someone had to get the ball rolling, which is why I've put the material out there for public inspection. My sincere hope is that others like yourself will take if nothing else inspiration from Redux as a starting point or reference upon which to build new material. The simplest truth is I'm as eager for new stuff to play as anyone, so if new stuff to play arises then whether or not such bears any resemblance at all to my own work is inconsequential to me. Thank you again therefore for your comments and numerous ideas regarding the game and my mod.