Regarding three silly reasons that Fallout 3 is Stupid.

[Dargus]

I'm new to the fallout series (friend told me about it a month ago), and I didn't play any of the previous titles. Since then, I've done quite a bit of reading, and quickly bumped into the fan based controversy surrounding the game.

Now, I'm not going to get into the questions: is it a good/bad game, or is the series an affront to the fans... bla bla bla. I get it, I'd be pissed if they turned an FPS like Halo into a RTS... I'm sure we can find many places here, and elsewhere, discussing that. I know I've read several of those threads. However, many of the nay-sayers have reiterated some of the same, I think silly, points.

1. Fallout 3 is stupid because there are standing WOODEN buildings.

Yes, the thermal winds of a nuclear blast tend to incinerate stuff that is flammable (wooden houses, tissue paper, people) out to about a 5 mile radius (assuming 1950's Fallout-bombs are of a yield similar to the ones dropped in WWII) .... AND wooden structures that may have survived the nuclear heat would, after 200 years of decay, most likely have rotted away.

However, is it unreasonable to assume that some trees/wood survived? Are you telling me that in 200 years no one would have built a wooden house, and later left it to ruin? Boggle me.

2. Fallout 3 is Stupid because Faction X has no reason to be in Washington D.C.

So, after 200 years it is impossible for anyone/faction/social group to have any reason to relocate?

3. Fallout 3 is stupid because you can't go from start to finish using dialog only.

I sort of get this. I mean, I guess it is a trademark of the series... but IMHO if you only progress via clicking on a series of pre-written dialog choices you're not playing a videogame, you're reading a choose-your-own-adventure book.

 

[rcorporon]

I'm new to the fallout series (friend told me about it a month ago), and I didn't play any of the previous titles. Since then, I've done quite a bit of reading, and quickly bumped into the fan based controversy surrounding the game.

Now, I'm not going to get into the questions: is it a good/bad game, or is the series an affront to the fans... bla bla bla. I get it, I'd be pissed if they turned an FPS like Halo into a RTS... I'm sure we can find many places here, and elsewhere, discussing that. I know I've read several of those threads. However, many of the nay-sayers have reiterated some of the same, I think silly, points.

1. Fallout 3 is stupid because there are standing WOODEN buildings.

Yes, the thermal winds of a nuclear blast tend to incinerate stuff that is flammable (wooden houses, tissue paper, people) out to about a 5 mile radius (assuming 1950's Fallout-bombs are of a yield similar to the ones dropped in WWII) .... AND wooden structures that may have survived the nuclear heat would, after 200 years of decay, most likely have rotted away.

However, is it unreasonable to assume that some trees/wood survived? Are you telling me that in 200 years no one would have built a wooden house, and later left it to ruin? Boggle me.

2. Fallout 3 is Stupid because Faction X has no reason to be in Washington D.C.

So, after 200 years it is impossible for anyone/faction/social group to have any reason to relocate?

3. Fallout 3 is stupid because you can't go from start to finish using dialog only.

I sort of get this. I mean, I guess it is a trademark of the series... but IMHO if you only progress via clicking on a series of pre-written dialog choices you're not playing a videogame, you're reading a choose-your-own-adventure book.

Points 1 and 3 have been discussed here tons. Use the "Search" feature.

As for point 2, play through FO1 and 2, and pay attention to the lore that you discover while doing so. Then you'll see that most of us aren't pissed about Faction X being out east, more that, in most cases, Faction X was destroyed in a previous game (Enclave) and has no business being ANYWHERE.

Or, in the case of the BoS, they aren't the technology wielding heroes of the waste. Quite the opposite really.

 

[Alphadrop]

Supposedly there are goody goody (gone native) Brotherhood and a splinter faction of that that upholds the old ideals of the Brotherhood. To sate Fallout fans I guess.

No clue how the Enclave is about though.

 

[generalissimofurioso]

3. Fallout 3 is stupid because you can't go from start to finish using dialog only.

I sort of get this. I mean, I guess it is a trademark of the series... but IMHO if you only progress via clicking on a series of pre-written dialog choices you're not playing a videogame, you're reading a choose-your-own-adventure book.

IMHO, A man should be able to reach the moon with a balloon, some twine and a small vial of saltpeter.

Your arguments have been invalidated by other posts on this forum and it would go a long way to your credibility to do a bit more research on the subject you're arguing than just dropping IMHO.

 

[Cow]

I get it, I'd be pissed if they turned an FPS like Halo into a RTS...

I don't know if you were being sarcastic but there is a Halo RTS.

3. Fallout 3 is stupid because you can't go from start to finish using dialog only.

One of the playtesters finished Fallout 3 while only killing a single radroach.

You can actually beat Morrowind and Oblivion without killing anyone (except the final boss). There's speedrun videos all over youtube showing this.

but IMHO if you only progress via clicking on a series of pre-written dialog choices you're not playing a videogame, you're reading a choose-your-own-adventure book.

This... is... a staple of RPG's? Until a game reaches Facade (a freeware adventure game go check it out) levels of "intelligence" you're going to be kind of stuck clicking on pre-written dialog in a story based video game.

As for point 2, play through FO1 and 2, and pay attention to the lore that you discover while doing so. Then you'll see that most of us aren't pissed about Faction X being out east, more that, in most cases, Faction X was destroyed in a previous game (Enclave) and has no business being ANYWHERE.

There's no evidence stating their total destruction. The president hid in the oil rig but what about the rest of the "important American big wigs?" Washington D.C. is the country's capital. It makes no sense that America's top secret government conspiracy organization wouldn't have a hideout near there.

Don't forget the three guys standing near Horrigan you can recruit. They could have escaped, gathered the forces at Navarro, and fled to the other side of the country. I don't remember any documents or cinemas in the game specifically saying "The entire Enclave in the entirity of USA was completely obliterated without a trace."

 

[Black]

There's no evidence stating their total destruction.

Same can be said about the Master. Boy oh boy, I'm waiting when FO4 comes out and devil's advocates will try to explain him returning.

 

[Sander]

The fact that something is theoretically possible doesn't mean that is is fitting.

How hard is it for some people to understand this? Theoretically, there could be a planet filled with Kirk clones who like to make homosexual love to eachother in the Star Trek universe. That doesn't mean that it'd fit.


As for dialogue, again a misrepresentation of why people dislike what is being done with Fallout 3. It isn't about the lack of a possibility to finish the game without killing someone (which I'm not sure is true, but whatever), it's about the style of play required and the influence of your actions on the world around you. In all of the Fallout 3 demos we've seen so far, it's very clear that FPS-style combat is very prominent and important.

 

[M-26-7]

1. Fallout 3 is stupid because there are standing WOODEN buildings.

Yes, the thermal winds of a nuclear blast tend to incinerate stuff that is flammable (wooden houses, tissue paper, people) out to about a 5 mile radius (assuming 1950's Fallout-bombs are of a yield similar to the ones dropped in WWII) .... AND wooden structures that may have survived the nuclear heat would, after 200 years of decay, most likely have rotted away.

However, is it unreasonable to assume that some trees/wood survived? Are you telling me that in 200 years no one would have built a wooden house, and later left it to ruin? Boggle me

So someone rebuilt the Capitol Building? There's no way that would still exist and there's no way in hell it would stillbe white, even if it hadn't been hit by a nuke. Trees would probably grow there, look at Chernobyl, even its most irradiated areas have trees. As for someone building a house there, that seems unlikely if not impossible. Let's face it after a world war III Washington would lit up like The Glow.

 

[Jim Cojones]

Same can be said about the Master. Boy oh boy, I'm waiting when FO4 comes out and devil's advocates will try to explain him returning.

Danger - spoiler! Reading may ruin your unique experience of playing Fallout 3 for the first time (but you'll probably lose your mental health while reading so it won't really matter)!

[spoiler:856cfe2b31]It is top secret information but I know this from reliable source: Master is the ending boss in Fallout 3. The Enclave has scavenged Cathedral and found his dead body. They had no idea what kind of creature he could be so they decided to raise him from the dead . Unfortunately there was no high level D'n'D priest among them. But they sent information to all the Vaults to find whether there is any in one of it. There was one - main character's father (this explains what is Enclave doing on the East cost). He didn't want to cooperate, ran away and managed to call for help from his friends (stormtroopers from SW) before get caught. Allies came to this world but were aware that stormtroopers may look suspicious for local inhabitants and started pretend they are from faction they've heard exist in postapocalyptic USA - Brotherhood of Steel (this explains what BoS is doing there and why do Power Armors look differently from ones from previous games).
So do not afraid story in Fallout 3 won't be good - it will be awesome!

Sorry for such stupid post but I couldn't resist.
[/spoiler:856cfe2b31]

 

[Black]

You're gonna be sorry if that's really true.

 

[Moving Target]

Sad thing: I can actually believe that it is true.

Or that the father's the final boss, and that he's like the Master. Or like the Behemoth Mk2.

 

[alec]

Someone is definitely making mutants, though.

Might as well be the dad.

 

[Cow]

There's no evidence stating their total destruction.

Same can be said about the Master. Boy oh boy, I'm waiting when FO4 comes out and devil's advocates will try to explain him returning.

No, you can't beat the game [spoiler:d20eff9c63]unless you kill the master[/spoiler:d20eff9c63].

The fact that something is theoretically possible doesn't mean that is is fitting.

The Enclave wasn't positioned in a single spot. The backstory specifically says that every member of the Enclave (which was huge) split up across America.

Across America.

Fallout 2 took place in the Nevada desert/California? That isn't even 3% of the country. [/spoiler]

 

[Black]

Cow, Jim already "explained" how it is possible for the Master to appear in FO3, didn't he?
After all, it's possible! And if it's possible than it's okay to re-hash old enemies.

 

[Jim Cojones]

The Enclave wasn't positioned in a single spot. The backstory specifically says that every member of the Enclave (which was huge) split up across America.

Across America.

No, just think about it. It's "Enclave" - named because they had their main base on the oil rig. There may be some other remnants of American government but why would they call themselves Enclave?

 

[Sander]

The Enclave wasn't positioned in a single spot. The backstory specifically says that every member of the Enclave (which was huge) split up across America.

Across America.

Fallout 2 took place in the Nevada desert/California? That isn't even 3% of the country.

First of all, there's no indication whatsoever that the Enclave had bases beyond Navarro and the Oil Rig.

Secondly, again, just the fact that it's possible doesn't mean that it fits the setting.

 

[Quaid]

...Theoretically, there could be a planet filled with Kirk clones who like to make homosexual love to eachother in the Star Trek universe...

Actually, this did already happen. It was in Star Trek episode 69 and the Enterprise had to try to find the real Captain amid all the meat smacking and geyser bursts.

They also made a motion picture continuing the storyline:
Star Trek III - The Search for Cock

 

[Cow]

It's "Enclave" - named because they had their main base on the oil rig.

I assumed they called themselves "Enclave" because they were "pure-blooded americans" isolated by mutant filth.

First of all, there's no indication whatsoever that the Enclave had bases beyond Navarro and the Oil Rig.

Secondly, again, just the fact that it's possible doesn't mean that it fits the setting.

I'm sorry I just don't see your logic here in regards to how it doesn't fit setting. Excuse me if I get the number wrong but wasn't there originally 120 Vaults spread across America? If the vault project was designed to test man's adaptability in space it wouldn't make much sense that the organization responsible for the production would isolate themselves solely in one region where they can only monitor a small fraction of their collective project?

Speaking of space, it would make more sense if the game took place in Florida since that's NASA headquarters.

How does this not make sense? Fallout takes place in a relatively small area but official Black Isle Fallout canon specifically says that there are more than one Vault in more than area and the Dick Richardson himself says that the government spread out.

Even Van Buren's storyline affirmed the remnants of the Enclave with Presper, a scientist who was going to use a government satellite to spread a virus across America and make it safe for pure bloods.

 

[Sander]

I'm sorry I just don't see your logic here in regards to how it doesn't fit setting. Excuse me if I get the number wrong but wasn't there originally 120 Vaults spread across America? If the vault project was designed to test man's adaptability in space

Eh? It wasn't designed to test man's adaptability in space. It was a social experiment, yes, but space didn't enter into it.

Even Van Buren's storyline affirmed the remnants of the Enclave with Presper, a scientist who was going to use a government satellite to spread a virus across America and make it safe for pure bloods.

It confirmed nothing other than that someone survived.

And, yet again: you are talking about what is possible. You are not talking about what fits the setting. What doesn't fit is the Enclave, as it was on the West Coast, surviving and settling on the other side of the continent, also completely changing their attitude from 'fuck the mutant mainland people' to 'Hey we're happy people come join us' with propaganda bots floating around.

It also doesn't fit the themes of Fallout, themes of isolation, dog-eat-dog world etc

 

[oblisk]

Someone post that official FO3 screenshot where it shows the same asset (model) of a house 3-4 times in the same scene.