Religion

[Gwydion]

The belief in a god is a somewhat selfish (or even egotistical, to a degree) sentiment. At least, I know that it makes me feel special to have a great divine being caring over every single action I commit. Knowing that He created an entire world for me, remained faithful to me even when I turn away, and sacrificed His son for my redeemption, yeah that's gotta make me feel special or at least cared for. And, despite unproveable aspects, its a belief that's easy to swallow for a young boy who's raised as a true-blue Catholic.

I don't think you're entirely correct. There may be selfish element there, but it also requires obedience and selfless-ness. Remember, if you ignore those aspects you get excluded for all eternity.

Nevertheless, these clergymen are living a life of discipline and abstinance with the hope of Heaven lingering in front of them like a carrot in front of a mule. It's a matter of great faith to do that (and what a bitter, cruel joke it will be if my dear teacher might have wasted his life).

Of course, if there's no afterlife then it's all a waste anyway.

 

[«ºTone Caponeº»]

Yes, in LDS what you do in this life plays an important role of determining what you do after it. A lot of that has to do with giving charity (time, money, items) to others.

 

[zem]

So, I filled out four pages with these ideals and beliefs. It's a presumptious bit of writing by a freshman but I still got an A on it. Fellow Catholics may not follow the same ideas (and I'm not trying to represent them, here) but this is what *I* believe and I suppose, in the end, religion is truly a matter of individual belief.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0503/atheists.html

Five Tips on How to Spot an Atheist

1. Usually Atheists are pale of skin. They spend a lot of times indoors, because they are afraid to come outside. They believe the preposterous lie that Christians are trying to kill them, when in fact, all that we really want to do is force a quick conversion or to kindly place them in a maximum security prison for their own protection from devout Christians who may try to kill them. Many Atheists will try to throw you off by spending time absorbing carcinogens in tanning beds, so it important to remember in hunting Atheists that many, if not most, have very dark skin, too. CAUTION: Do not confuse these artificially dark folks with genuine Negroes. Real Coloreds need to be watched carefully around anything of value, but do not need to be brought to the Lord, as they all unblinkingly accepted Jesus as their loving God during Biblically-sanctioned slavery.

2. Atheists are overweight. The stereotypes of typical Atheists are the trim, granola cruncher who jogs and plays racquetball or the vain hedonist, party-goer who worships only her full-length mirror, Recent studies have shown, however, that Atheists have become aware of these signifiers of their lack of faith. In order to blend in undetected with evangelical Christians, most Atheists now tend to be morbidly obese and will tell you, whether asked or not, that their enormous girth is the result of an undetectable thyroid condition and not the box of Little Debbie cakes they are holding.

3. Atheists have too many university diplomas! These folks are chock full of secular knowledge. They toss the Bible aside in favor of so-called, "research" and "theories." They spend their days studying and trying to gather facts and data to support their ridiculous scientific theories, such as evolution and gravity. Don't let it fool you, Christian Brothers and Sisters! All the secular knowledge in the world can't disprove that the reason we are all here today was because Eve got some bad advice from a talking snake! Atheists are too full of their silly "logic" to understand that only blind faith leads to sighted Truth. Why, the homo-lovers in England have already accepted that most scientists are naturally Atheists. Don't let it happen in America! Report your Biology professor – or any so-called teacher who pollutes the soul with extraneous (non-Biblical) information -- to the local authorities before he recruits your child!

4. Atheists Deceive! Atheists go under many different names, but they don't have the common sense to align themselves yet! Use this to your advantage in reporting them to the police! They call themselves, "humanists, agnostics, secular-humanists, moral relativists, Catholics, free-thinkers, undecided, Unitarians, and more recently, Brights." It is important to note that anyone who has a post-graduate degree or is interested in getting a post-graduate degree, is suspect! Also be warned, Wiccans , Vegans, Yogists, and readers of science fiction are either Atheists or on the road to becoming an Atheist. Our job as True Christians™ is to use this loophole of time under the current Bush Administration to get as many of these God-haters arrested as we can before they do more damage to our country than they already have.

5. Atheists are afraid! Even though there are as many as 300 active Atheists in the United States, we can safely assume that if recent polls are correct, most Atheists are afraid to come out and say what they don't believe. It's your job to pull it out of them. Put them on the spot. Hound them at restaurants and on cruise ships. Don't take "I'd rather not talk about religion" as a answer. Give them one last chance to save their sorry souls. Then, call the police!

 

[Rogue Hex]

I'm a catholic. But only because my parents are and say i am.
In all, i don't really believe or take my religion seriously. Maybe i should but it just seems so pointless and errr fake!

My parents arn't really big religious people either although they still believe.

 

[Brother None]

Five Tips on How to Spot an Atheist

Rebellion to close-minded people is basically being close-minded.

Also, as a Christian once pointed out; if you believe in God, you live a happy life in the knowledge that you're going to heaven and the rest to hell (basically). Even when you make sacrifices, you make those sacrifices in the full knowledge that this makes your chance of a happy afterlife greater, and this brings you joy.

In the end, it wouldn't matter if there isn't an afterlife. Because if there isn't an afterlife, that means the Christian doesn't live on anymore than the athiest, but at least the Christian had a happy life believing there WAS an afterlife, while a lot of athiests are full of doubt and fear of death.

And he was damned right.

 

[Jazz_Fascist]

I don't know how I fit into my family, both my parents are atheist, but I am a Catholic. I must be spending to much time around my grandmother, who is a stong Catholic.

 

[welsh]

when is all said and done

I think that there are a couple delimmas about religon, some of which are never really considered.

For example, many people think of religion in terms of selfish rewards for doing good deeds, or securing ones place in a more benign afterlife. But there are also those who believe in a faith that does not involve an afterlife at all.

Likewise there are those who are faithful not in hope of any future rewards, and perhaps with the expectation that the afterlife, for them at least, will not be so great. They believe because they do, the idea of rewards and punishments has little to do with it.

Merely because man would have created God if there was no such entity, does not mean that such an entity doesn't exist.

We place a lot of faith in the rational man, but there are times, with regard to religion, that the rational man test doesn't quite cut it. The problem there is trying to figure out when a person is religious for some future, eternal salvation alone (and not for the love of a diety) or when the person is doing it for prestige within a community.

But even thinking of such things moves us away from the question of whether God really exists at all, regardless of our existence or despite our conceptions of what she's all about.

One plug for Catholicism, few other faiths have such a richly developed concept of hell.

 

[Loxley]

I think religion can be a great thing for many people, though i don't need it myself. And i accept other peoples religions as long as they don't start to bother me with them. If a religious guy comes upp to me and says "you will burn in hell cause you are and ateisth" then i get angry, or when i meet people that use religion as a reason to do bad things.

Knowing that there is nothing there when you die, is pretty ok actually. I won't feel anything anyway so why should i bother about it?

hehe how far into hell are you going?

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv

 

[bob_the_rambler]

yea it pisses me off when people judge other people because of there religion or lack of one, me being LDS i was taught that i should respect and value others religions, if you try and force another to join your religion all you will do is push them away, though i dont belive in devil worship or tolerate it.

just observe what has happened in the past, when great wars were fought on the subject of religion millions have died trying to force others to belive the same way they do, tolerance and respect are the way to go, hate and prosicution are the keys to despare and war.

 

[Choro Ex]

I'm a muslim. A Good one! Faithfull!! And i remember our Dark Underlord here once said "MR BHASS YOU MUSLIM HEATHEN!!!!" Oh it's time for morning prayer, heh heh..... Just kidding! Still 10.40 AM here!

BTW i got a professor in my University which a Hindu, but he do several Muslim and Christian faith. I. E. he do the "Wudhu", an Islamic procession of washing hands, feet, arm, face, head and ears before doing a prayer. said makes him feel better.... There were also a girl here which I dunno his real religion, somehow beetween Christian and Catholic.

Well, as long as people from other religion dont bother me, i wont bother them, just live and let live policy.

Hmmm, perhaps you guys won't believe this, but some Christian here were more FANATICS than the Hardcore Muslims Fanatics I knew ( and thats the one who bombed BALI!!). My cousin got this experience (she's a Catholic). One day some of these fanatics came to her house and try to convert her to Christian!!! They said: "BRING YOUR BIBLE!! YOU INFIDEL!!" and her answers: "Shut up!! And get your a*% outta my house!!"

This is what make Christian-Catholics relation here somewhat not so good. Well, somehow this guys don't even got sympathy from the Christians. Simply, their too fanatics! Isn't that right Nrimo Lan Sumeh? (Where this guy anyway?)

 

[Dan]

I was born jewish... But I'm really an athesit now.

 

[Nrimo lan Sumeh]

Islam is my religion

I'm a Muslim, without Sunni nor Syi'ah. Just Muslim...

I feel that apart fact that one tries to convert other to their religion, everyone desires majority of their beliefs rather than minority. At least that make them fell secure. Either they know they were going to hell together, or otherwise.

In Muslim anyway, there would be no force in any kind to make someone convert. It isn't in any ethical values, it's in the religion, NO FORCE ALLOWED.

The funny fact is, that we believe that in afterlife, the Heaven dwellers were not only Muslim, but also from Christians, Catholics an so others...(of course only the good guys got in) Well, Jews, Christians, and Muslims, worship the same God. Imagine what will happen to those Priests before the time of Islam...

Anyway, with the fact that we worship the same God, why the hell we fought each other? Some with bombs, some with "legal" military actions, some other as a form of "retaliation". It's all the same thing.

For those who despise Osama bin Laden, let you know that we consider George W Bush worse in any way possible.

Lakum diinukum waliyaddiin.
(roughly translated):"Let your religion yours, mine's mine"

 

[Brother None]

Re: Islam is my religion

I feel that apart fact that one tries to convert other to their religion, everyone desires majority of their beliefs rather than minority. At least that make them fell secure. Either they know they were going to hell together, or otherwise.

Not true.

Which is why, as an agnostic, I find the three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christinianity) to be pretty stupid in the incredible value all of you put to the written word. Who cares if god said "he" or "she", "walk" or "run", "water" or "sea". Or what name belongs to what? Wars have been waged over this, though not because of it.

Of course, Buddhism and Hinduism are different. They don't have this value for words, nor do they slaughter each other because of it.

Obviously, though, this difference is cultural. The Western and Muslim worlds just love fighting. If religion is a good excuse to fight, then so be it.

The people that call on God's name to attack anyone, be it the American colonialist spreading typhoid amongst the Indians and then thanking God for His Divine help or Osama calling on Muhammed to kill thousands of innocents, will surely reside in the lowest pit of hell (the 9th level, according to Dante, where the three-headed Devil resides eternally frozen in ice, but that's another matter)

For those who despise Osama bin Laden, let you know that we consider George W Bush worse in any way possible.

There is no line of comparison. Bush doesn't resemble Hitler either. Bush is a democratically elected leader trying to do his job in tough times. He's an idiot, sure, he violates human rights, sure, but at such a different level than Osama did that the line of comparison is none existant.

 

[Ugly John]

Re: Islam is my religion

Bush is a democratically elected leader trying to do his job in tough times.

Hmmm. Are you sure ? because even the Americans are not sure

 

[Brother None]

Re: Islam is my religion

Hmmm. Are you sure ? because even the Americans are not sure

Heh, true enough, as I posted before, with 50% of the American voters turning up and less than 50% voting for Bush, he has less than 25% support of the voting American people.

It's not a model of democracy, no, but it's more democratic than the average...non-democratic country.

 

[«ºTone Caponeº»]

Representative democracy.

Bush may have gotten less than 25% of the vote (I'm not sure what voter turnout was and such), but those who didn't vote had that choice. We don't force anyone to participate.

Bush is an idiot when looked at by those in the European community, but I'd have to disagree with that. He may not be the most eloquent speaker and seem simple in his roots, but I'd be willing to bet he's a lot smarter than "average" and probably smarter than you Kharn. It is funny when someone disagrees with another's policy words like "idiot" come up quick. I'm just curios to see what "idiotic" things Bush has done.

As for Bush and UBL (it is Usama not Osama btw), well, that's your point of view, but I find it amusing and quite ignorant. I've been to the middle east, and I find it unfortunate that what I see over there is that what matters most is your religious affiliation and nationality, not whether you are a good person or not. I'll never forget when a truck full of Philipino TCNs (Third Country Nationalists) working in Saudi was hit by by a Saudi man running a stop sign outside the checkpoint of a military base. The U.S. soldiers ran to help them, the Saudi soldiers and civilians just stood their and pointed, not seeming to find anything bad about the situation.

 

[Brother None]

Representative democracy.

But not equal representation

Bush is an idiot when looked at by those in the European community, but I'd have to disagree with that. He may not be the most eloquent speaker and seem simple in his roots, but I'd be willing to bet he's a lot smarter than "average" and probably smarter than you Kharn. It is funny when someone disagrees with another's policy words like "idiot" come up quick. I'm just curios to see what "idiotic" things Bush has done.

From the European point of view, there's little not idiotic he has done. Few people agreed with the Iraqi war, and most Europeans have no affinity for his Trickle Economics. No more than they did when Reagen applied them, y'know.

True, idiot is a bit unfair, but I don't respect the man as much as I do other American presidents (including Republican presidents, mind you, and I respect Nixon more than this guy). I can respect people that I don't agree with as long as they manage to come off as intelligent people, either by the way they speak or, more importantly, what they do.

Now whether or not what Bush is doing is right, you can't exactly call investing billions in a war in the time of an economic crisis "good, sound policy" now can you?

I'll take back the idiot, but that's just me, you have to understand that a lot of Europeans put a lot of stock into Social Democracy (the Brits, the Belgians, the Dutch, the French, the Germans) and the welfare state. Bush embodies the opposite of this and as such is a model Republican, but this, together with his speech impediment, makes him come off as rather stupid to the Europeans.

Though war tends to be good for the capitalist market, but that didn't seem to be the case much here

PS: Bush (NOT CLINTON) pushed the dollar way under the Euro. That's no good, we're being thrown into a recession by this stuff.

ignorant

I wish you would use this word less. Ignorance and stupidity are hard terms, to be applied with care (allright, I didn't do that with Bush, I'll take it back, though, Bush is not an idiot)

You have to understand that a misunderstanding of a situation in your eyes (and just your eyes, with 6 billion people on the planet, that's not too important) often doesn't stem from ignorance OR stupidity, but a social backdrop which opens up for an entirely different perspection on a situation.

(might talk on and on about this, but has Biology revisions to do)

 

[welsh]

I'm a muslim. A Good one! Faithfull!! And i remember our Dark Underlord here once said "MR BHASS YOU MUSLIM HEATHEN!!!!" Oh it's time for morning prayer, heh heh..... Just kidding! Still 10.40 AM here!


Well, as long as people from other religion dont bother me, i wont bother them, just live and let live policy.

Hmmm, perhaps you guys won't believe this, but some Christian here were more FANATICS than the Hardcore Muslims Fanatics I knew ( and thats the one who bombed BALI!!). My cousin got this experience (she's a Catholic). One day some of these fanatics came to her house and try to convert her to Christian!!! They said: "BRING YOUR BIBLE!! YOU INFIDEL!!" and her answers: "Shut up!! And get your a*% outta my house!!"

This is what make Christian-Catholics relation here somewhat not so good. Well, somehow this guys don't even got sympathy from the Christians. Simply, their too fanatics! Isn't that right Nrimo Lan Sumeh? (Where this guy anyway?)

An interesting fact, with rather significant political ramifications, might be that the country with the largest number of fundamentalists is the US.

To dismiss the role of religion in US politics, as well as the rise of conservativism, is ignore the potential role this might have on US policy over the long term. I am seeing in magazines how kids are retaining their virginity into their adulthood. Gosh! When I was a kid being a virgin when you were 18 was like having a social disease!

Another interesting tidbit was that none of the 9-11 bombers received their higher education in the US (well except for the flying training). Most received their higher education, and apparently their radicalization, while attending school in Europe. One argument for this is that Muslims have generally benefitted from inclusive social policies in addition to substantial freedoms of religion in the US. Indeed, this is an argument why there have been very few terrorists incidents in the US from Muslim extremists. The reason is that most Muslims in the US have enjoyed their practice, have been able to prosper, and generally have a better life here then in other muslim countries.

However, such social policies have not been as forthcoming in the EU where many muslims have felt excluded and with relatively little ability to become citizens. Within these societies, Muslim students have been more easily radicalized.

Interestingly, if you look at many of the leading radicals who had supported communist revolution and anti-colonialism in the middle of the last century, one finds that most of them were trained in Europe.

Are French concerns over terrorism from Islamic sectors similar to US fears of black militants during the period preceeding and during the civil rights movement? Could the problem be that the French, and Europeans more generally, have not tried to enfranchise Muslims.

Finally, another interesting point I came across, no members of Al-Qaeda originate from India where despite significant communal violence, muslims supposedly have many opportunities for upward mobility and religious expression.

 

[Brother None]

However, such social policies have not been as forthcoming in the EU where many muslims have felt excluded and with relatively little ability to become citizens. Within these societies, Muslim students have been more easily radicalized.

Ehm, you might want to check your sources, 'cause this is just wrong.

We've had some integration problems in several countries, including Belgium, the Netherlands and Britain, but it's not true anywhere that muslims are huge social outcasts because of their religion, their chances of becoming a citizen are, if anything, larger, and our muslim population is certainly bigger than yours.

In fact, our integration problem are the opposite of not allowing people to become part of our society; the problem is we're much too accepting of these people keeping their own culture and language inside our country, which is turning into a problem.

Just an example; next to several capitalist buildings and churches, the centre of Rotterdam is adorned with the biggest mosque (?) of the EU; the Mevlana. Beautiful thing, not extremist.

Extremism in Europe, if anything, is the result of our non-strict policies. We ALLOW people to become extremist and develop in whatever way they want. This is a big flaw in our politics, and something that should stop. In America, integration policies are much stricter and effective, from what we understand, while we let people expand in their own ways much more.

Also, your logic, if true, must work both ways; if extremism is stimulated by our way of treating muslims, then surely they'd attack us, not you. 'nother flaw; these extremists got their HIGHER education over here, "and apparently their extremism", don't you think their extremism rather stems from the way they were raised, and that they COULD get their higher education as extremists here because we tend to be overly accepting of people thinking another way?

 

[Choro Ex]

I am seeing in magazines how kids are retaining their virginity into their adulthood. Gosh! When I was a kid being a virgin when you were 18 was like having a social disease!

I AM STILL VIRGIN!!!! A VIRGIN BOY IN EARLY TWENTY!!!

Interesting facts, here anyone who NOT a virgin but never married, is have a social disease!!! But some survey in Jogja state that 40% of Girls University Student no longer virgin. Here all of that returns to our religion, and i haven't see any law about that. The only law here about that is if you go to hotels or public places (i.e. Park, one of my friend, a girl, once saw people doing that IN THE PARK!!) with your girlfriend and slept there, or doing that with whore and under aged kids. But if you do that in home..... thats only between you, her, god, AND HER PARENTS!!!!


Kharn wrote:

Which is why, as an agnostic, I find the three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christinianity) to be pretty stupid in the incredible value all of you put to the written word. Who cares if god said "he" or "she", "walk" or "run", "water" or "sea". Or what name belongs to what? Wars have been waged over this, though not because of it.

Thats correct. Arabics is a war loving society. Back from the Assyrian and Babilonian time to the Crusades in middle ages. European too.... The war wages over this but not BECAUSE IT!!! Its just their priest who tells propaganda about this and that, I'm pretty sure that Christian and Judaism never teach their followers to wages war with Islam. So does my religion!!! Altough some fanatics turned down the facts about this (Like Taliban who never allow their follower to smoke a cigar, drinking liquor but selling Cannabis to European because they were Heathen!!)
If any muslims said he's been teached something about that, well he's got different religion than mine. He even not a muslims!

nls said:

For those who despise Osama bin Laden, let you know that we consider George W Bush worse in any way possible.

Errrr..... NLS, it's Usamah Bin Ladin. Do you forget that there were no characters "O" and "E" in Arabics?

Well, from this thread I can only say one thing:

"For me the right religion is mine and I have no right to tell you what is the good religion, but all i can say, the religion who teach you violence, hatred, and other bad things are the wrong one!!"