Role of GECK

Discussion in 'Fallout 3 Discussion' started by taag, Dec 24, 2008.

  1. taag

    taag Still Mildly Glowing

    274
    Aug 30, 2008
    Well, I played the game once, that was enough for me. I didn't quite pick up the role of GECK in the plot. Why GECK and not the Water Chip (which makes more sense)?
    I mean, this is just one of many things I feel are unexplained at all. But this is the only one I care about to ask here.
     
  2. Alphadrop

    Alphadrop A right proper chap.

    Aug 21, 2008
    I think that the developers thought the G.E.C.K was a magical terraforming device which when coupled with the thingy at the Jefferson memorial and activated will suddenly purify the water everywhere... somehow.

    Well that is what I've gathered so far from a few run throughs of the game but it still makes little to no sense.

    Probably they just wanted to stuff a G.E.C.K in there to make it more Fallouty.
     
  3. Nullifidian

    Nullifidian First time out of the vault

    92
    Nov 4, 2008
    It was a water chip that needed a GECK in order to purify water at a faster rate.

    Thus becoming super duper fallouty. :roll:
     
  4. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    Well, you cant have one of the parts of mainstory make sense now do we ?
    The entire thing about water purification not possible other ways is humbug.They cant just COPY the water purification method the vaults use ? Why didnt they use P-A survival guide trick of filtering through ground dirt ? And look at Fallout 2, water was drinkable, how would have Den or NCR formed if it wasnt possible to drink "normal" water without getting badly radiated ? Sure it might happen, but not that often to be THAT risky. If enclave wants to spread the virus why wont they use the vertibirds to do it ? Why wont they use their miniguns to kill wastelanders, it is not like there are that many people alive in fallout 3.
    How did they get to DC from navarro,when the vertibirds had constant malfunctions and short range ?
    How is the enclave even existing, if their mainbase was the oil rig , and navarro was just a refuel/repair outpost ?
    How is BoS in DC ?!

    Arghhhhhhhhhhh! ,my brain is on fireeee.............
     
  5. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    For that matter why wasn't the Enclave out to take control of important military installations like Fort Constantine, Fort Independence and that Armory I found.

    Fort Constantine would be on top of their list as it still had a large supply of nuclear bombs and a working ICBM!

    Then there are also the loads of robots that are wandering around purposeless.

    I think if I had been in charge of the Enclave and I was setting up shop in the Capital Wasteland my goals would be simple;

    1. Get control of all important military installations post haste.
    2. Send Vertibird assault teams to the Pentagon and retrieve Liberty Prime before the damn Brotherhood does.
    3. Set up some sort of override signal that summons all wandering robots to my bases so that my technicians can reprogram them and incorporate them into my armed forces.
    For that matter, take control of the Robco factory, loads of robots and the means to make more.
    4. Take over Vault 101, they might be descendants of lowly pre war stock but they are pure untainted humans.
    A couple of years of training might turn them into useful recruits.

    With this under my control me and my tacticians could set up an effective campaign to eliminate all the 'mutants' and the 'near human mutants'.

    If the damn mutants do manage to resist I will throw a nuclear bomb on them as a last resort.

    Edit: 5. Take control of satellite uplink to mini nuke armed space satellite.
     
  6. coliphorbs

    coliphorbs Look, Ma! Two Heads!

    330
    Jun 2, 2008
    Trying to make sense of Fallout 3's plot is like fucking a brick.

    Guys, stop. Seriously.
     
  7. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Because we all know how Hunting Rifles are very effective against the all-mighty Enclave Power Armor. :twisted:
     
  8. Nimdok

    Nimdok First time out of the vault

    12
    Dec 19, 2008
    Water Chips weren't designed to work on that large of a scale, which is why the devs opted to employ a GECK. The real question is why not just use the GECK on a plot of land as opposed to cannibalizing one for the project.

    And suspension of disbelief is all well and good until you consider one very important detail: The water may no longer be radiated once it gets processed, but it's still from the bay, which means it's fed directly by the ocean. Which means it's salt water. There was nothing there about this magical GECK-fueled system desalinating the water, let alone storing it for future use; it would just suck in radiated water and shoot out clean water. Into the bay. The salty, radiated bay.

    That's not just a plot hole, that's a plot where-the-fuck-did-my-car-just-go-oh-shit-black-hole-oh-fuck-oh-fuck-oh-fuck-oh~
     
  9. Alphadrop

    Alphadrop A right proper chap.

    Aug 21, 2008
    According to Fallout 2 canon the G.E.C.K actually has a smaller water chip than a Vault water chip, or dosen't actually contain one at all.
    Oh wait in Fallout 3 they replaced the G.E.C.K with a fantabulous glowy maaaaagical light... which somehow kills you if you open it in Vault 87.
    Shame really, if they had just done some research into water filtration they would of realised it's quite easy to filter radiation and impurities from water and that you don't build the bloody thing near a rivermouth.
     
  10. Slaughter Manslaught

    Slaughter Manslaught Vault Senior Citizen

    Dec 11, 2006
    Wans't a water chip capable of puryfing around sixty thousand gallons of water per day? I don't think that's "too few" for Project Purity.
     
  11. nemetoad

    nemetoad It Wandered In From the Wastes

    133
    Dec 7, 2008
    Really, a GECK wasn't needed in Fallout 2 either. Yet no one seems to question that either. In the Fallout Bible, it included a fertilizer system, soil supplements, chemicals to make arid waste to fertile soil, holodisks on the past and plans for defenses and the like, sand-crete soil, several codes for changes in clothing, and so forth... Arroyo could have modernized without it, much like NCR did. It could have created shacks to begin with, much like other areas. Did it need a land fertilizer? Looks like they were growing plants without it. Did it need plans to alter Vault suits? nope. The most benefitial thing they could have gotten from a GECK is seeds and sand-crete chemicals. Other than that, they had no need for the thing. So why does the GECK get sought after AT ALL?

    Fallout 3? Given, Water chips were needed, but maybe those already were IN the thing. You have other places with clean or less-irradiated water already, so the logic train has to say they got those already. So why need the GECK? Substitute for an actual water filtering plant. Water was drinkable in Fallout 1 and 2, sure, but you never did go swimming in it. You also never got any indication of minor radiation that builds up over time, since that wasn't part of the mechanics they showed off. Also, part of purifying water is purifying ground water, which means you'd need the GECK's chemicals for purifying the earth of radiation and other harmful agents that may be buried too. The ground in the DC area is apparently less fertile too.

    That's the only logic my mind can come up with. Personally I think Project Purity should have been a side plot and not a main plot.
     
  12. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    Well, the intro says that they were having trouble to grow anything, and their crops and cattle were dying. Hard to see that from a sprite.

    So they might need some extra "juice" to get the plants to grow, as they could have depleted the soil of the little nutrients it had to begin with.
    And look at klamath, it is very undeveloped, and it has connections to outside. Building shacks to arroyo, maybe, but they wouldnt have gotten to the level NCR, because NCR got tech and help from the single group that had it, Brotherhood of Steel. That would leave the only other source to be vaults or other such pre-war facilities. VC got theirs from the vault they had.
    So GECK would BE USEFULL to arroyo.

    And radiation wouldnt have penetrated THAT deep, so they could have just digged a somewhat deep hole, and presto, pure soil, pure water.
    And the less fertile land is not a excuse to have NO farms at all.
     
  13. nemetoad

    nemetoad It Wandered In From the Wastes

    133
    Dec 7, 2008
    Good points. However!
    FIRST, You would need a Vault or another source of Vault-tec brand technology for a GECK to be useful. They're designed for Vault dwellers only, after all... so what, it's supposed to magically manifest new tech advancements similar to the ones Brotherhood of Steel would provide?
    Second, the major issue during Fallout 2's beginning wasn't really infertile ground, but a draught. A draught means they're either running low on water (which is ironically similar to "running low on clean water" which was the problem of Fallout 3 solved by the GECK) or they're getting too much sun, which like it or not a civilization cure-all wouldn't fix. Unless it has an anti-sun feature. Also, if the problem IS infertile ground... two solutions: 1, a make-shift irrigation system. If that could be figured out pre-colonial time period, people being taught by someone with a lot of access to knowledge would be able to figure it out too. 2, manure helps with the fertility of land. Why not use Brahim-dung? Also, if the problem is disease spreading or something, then... again, GECK isn't going to be useful.

    THIRD, Nothing was stopping the Arroyo tribal members from building better shelters. Take Junktown for example: Everything in the town is supposedly built from scratch, scavenged from surrounding areas. THey could have done that without a GECK and even make decent housing! Also, consider two things that you see in-game: Temple of Trials and the giant shiney rock statue of a head. Both mean they know how to actually construct things out of stone, whether it be statues or giant statues, which means they could have built houses before considering even needing a GECK. Once again, there were alternative solutions.

    FOURTH, NCR got developed with the help of traders and Brotherhood of Steel...without a GECK. True, if Arroyo depended on traders and personal advancements, they would not get to the same level as the NCR. They would, however, get to a point better then, say, Junktown. Or the Hub even, depending on if they did branch out on trade relations.

    So all in all, considering Arroyo's dilemma that led to a search for the GECK, the GECK feels more like a lazy solution to me...just like it feels like a lazy solution in Fallout 3 to most people.
    The GECK would be USEFUL, but barely. The most useful components would be the data and ground fertilizers. There's no need for seeds because apparently they acquired some already, and there's no need for sand-crete because they apparently have access to better building materials(see: Temple of Trials). The data is, again, useless unless you have technology that is involved with the data. That would require either a good amount of traders, or a lot of trekking away from Arroyo to get proper tech. Again, if the problem is a draught, this isn't going to help.

    Also, farms aren't needed as much as you think. Fallout 1, Junktown was sustained only on trade. No farming. Most towns in Fallout 3 are sustained by the same thing. One gets food via cannibalism. Another... apparently nuka-cola, which of course makes no sense. In an area where scavenging is more favorable, I doubt there will be much farming. The ground's blighted and arid, hardly ideal conditions for farming. ALSO, only Megaton was around for the longest time... it's only like 40 years before the game when Rivet city formed, and who knows for others? Most people probably came from Vaults or areas outside the DC area. Maybe Caturbury Commons trades with people outside the DC area too? It's never mentioned or seen, but it could happen. I mean, if a Chosen one can go from Oregon to halfway through California without any problems , I'm sure people with the proper skills and equipment can cross larger distances....
     
  14. Trithne

    Trithne Still Mildly Glowing

    222
    Nov 13, 2008
    Vault City is what a GECK results in. It's basically just a box of goodies for setting up a starting surface colony. And in FO2 it was shown that the GECK wouldn't've been enough for Arroyo.
     
  15. The Dutch Ghost

    The Dutch Ghost Grouchy old man of NMA Moderator

    Jan 11, 2004
    Well one of the FO2 developers talked about the GECK during an interview.
    We now know what a GECK really is and what it does but the elder from Arroyo thought it was some kind of magical device from what she understood of the holo discs, her understanding was limited by the fact that she had no idea of what the holo discs really talked about.

    As stated in FO2 and in the Bible, the GECK is a very useful device if you know how to use it, and you get the most out off when using the systems of a Vault.
    It was not at all this magical terraforming device.

    From what has just been told about the water purifier it is suddenly very useless unless the cleaned water is transferred to some kind of supply, dumping it back in the basin that is connected to the ocean would be an incredible waste.

    Again a failure on the pile of failures.

    PS, Regarding the Temple of Trials, apparently it was already there before the Vault Dweller and his group came and established Arroyo.
     
  16. taag

    taag Still Mildly Glowing

    274
    Aug 30, 2008
    Only Dr. House can fix Fallout 3 plot!

    You're joking, right? :shock: You die if you open a GECK?
     
  17. FeelTheRads

    FeelTheRads Vault Senior Citizen

    Sep 15, 2004
    No way.... no fucking way. That's it, I'm gonna play this piece of shit. A "let's play" will come next year...sometime.
     
  18. Ausir

    Ausir Venerable Relic of the Wastes

    Apr 20, 2003
    It was a retcon by Avellone in the Bible. It originally was meant to be more of a miracle of SCIENCE! than in his mundane explanation.
     
  19. Tagaziel

    Tagaziel Panzerkatze Staff Member Admin Orderite

    Dec 10, 2003
    A retcon that makes sense. Unlike Bethesda's drivel.
     
  20. Patton89

    Patton89 Vault Dweller

    727
    Nov 21, 2008
    Well, HOW would they know ? THEY THINK it is usefull, and i am not going to disagree instantly. If they would have gotten it,before enclave comes, they would have had to send chosen one to find instruction how to use it. But it will work on itself. No need for other vault-tec items, besides a holotape reader.
    And where do they get the water to irrigate from ? they are in high ground. There are no rivers nearby, not ones they could use.They cant use the well, they need it for the drinking water.
    Manure might help, but they HAVE probably tried that too,they are farming, and manure is not as effective as industrial fertilizers. If the land is still infertile, then sending someone to get help, even if its in form of a "magical" GECK, makes sense. To them. And even to me.
    The temple of trials was there before they came, a pre war building.
    And ToT was added because Interplay demanded it, not because the team wanted to. It is not a good example.
    If you read my post, i did say shacks would make sense. Some houses. And that would be level of Klamath,junktown or even Den. No electricity or other signs of advance,possible farming to take care of own needs, almost no real medical knowledge (junktown had a farm and a doc , but he used to sell human parts for bob, so his medical background is atleast dubious)
    How is junktown that much more different from klamath ? Only difference is, junktowners build their houses and shacks. Thats it.
    And arroyo is in somewhere oregon ?, where it seems that there are less survivours, or less vaults. 1 original vault. 2 old ones, that were in Fallout.
    So hub level is not granted, as there are less people to trade with.
    NCR became to be , thanks to Tandi and vault dweller. Without her, NCR couldnt have formed, because there wouldnt have been a leader capable of that. Without vault dweller, the khans would have destroyed it before it formed. Brotherhood was the reason WHY they are so "advanced", not really why NCR formed, albeit the tech did help it to form to the "superpower" of wastes.
    Again, Tot was PRE WAR. And i adressed it, they DO NOT know it is complicated device, as THEY think its magical. And they would haev had to send the chosen one to find instruction, from VC for an example.
    But it is more than just basic fertilizers and instructions. I HAS A fusion power GENERATOR inside it, clothes replicator, AND VERY powerful fertilizers. (that supposedly can make moon able to grow crops. ) And it even had force field schematics in it. It is not just bunch of seds and low tech fertilizers. If used properly, it would have led to VC level of techology. It even had the instructions on how build houses.
    fallout 3 makes no sense. You cant claim that they trade with people, because there is noone to trade with, you are ssuming that there are other settlements nearby,that are willing to trade . You cant scavenge for 200 years. And even if junktown doesnt have farms, HUB does, so does shady sands. Almost every place has farms in Fallout 2. DC would logically have more vaults. That means more GECKS. That means, advanced settlements. Even if just tribals can farm, why dont the vault dwellers know it, why cant people figure it out. DC isnt the MOON. You should be able to grow things with GECK. It makes no sense.
    And the game doesnt mention anything about outside places, it doesnt explain ANYTHING.