Russia ? Really!

Crni Vuk

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Nothing new for the one or other. Anyway as the one or other might now or not know I am rather close to homosexual people and the sexuality.

I know things in Russia are for homosexual people very harsh. Well the whole "eastern part" of europe is not a that great place when it comes to that - Yugoslavia is not much better regarding that ...

But this is bill is a rather sad affair. I really hope things could change in Russia ... I mean and we see "democracy" as such civliced. If one can call Russia a "true" democracy that is ...


Political leaders in one of Russia’s biggest cities will this week vote on a bill designed to silence mention of homosexuality in schools, but which could also be used to end pride parades and pro-equality political actions.

The Bill, which is prompting outrage from global groups across the world, calls for harsh financial penalties for “public actions aimed at propaganda of pederasty, lesbianism, bisexuality, and transgenderism among minors” in the city of St. Petersburg.

Activists worry that if passed, the law would be used to block LGBTI activities anywhere that children could be present – any public space.

Amnesty International has urged the city’s authorities not to pass the Bill, saying it is discriminatory and would fuel anti-gay sentiment.

Russia has an unpleasant track record on gay rights, but things are slowly changing as gay businesses open up in its biggest cities since homosexuality was decriminalized in 1993.

But attempts to run Pride Marches in Moscow have been fraught with drama, as police ban the events each year, fearing violence between homophobes and marchers. This year’s event went ahead but the participants were attacked by an ultra-Orthodox protest group.

Take action: Over 150,000 people around the world have signed All Out’s online petition to stop St. Petersburg’s silencing law. The petition calls on world leaders to “stand with LGBT Russians whose ability to speak for themselves is under attack.”

Russias-bid-to-silence-gays.htm
 
I knew there is often aggression against gay people on the streets and discrimination in the workplace but I didn't know (part of) the Russian government was still that extreme.

Unfortunately news like this doesn't really surprise me when it comes from African leaders like Mugabe.

P.S. I can't open the link you posted.
 
Russia is a very special place indeed.

Where else do you see ultranationalist skinhead groups with orthodox priests present, supporting them at protests and marches?
 
I don't understand this. What I get from what you quoted is that they're doing it to protect gays from violence because they're unable to police their people. It must be an extremely touchy subject over there. Not that what they're doing is right though, it sounds like something similar to banning abortions and anything related because of people attacking pregnant teenagers around abortion clinics. Hope things work out for the best over there, whatever the best may be.

PainlessDocM said:
P.S. I can't open the link you posted.

Russia's bid to silence gays
 
Not just Russia. Even we Indians have issues with tolerating the gay. I blame our large population for that, we take pride in that
 
Tagaziel said:
Cimmerian Nights said:
Intolerance must not be tolerated.

People too often mistake tolerance for blind acceptance.
True enough. But what is wrong about gay people having their parade ? What is so special about it.

You don't have to accept it. You don't even have to like gay people. But they should be equal regarding the rights to any other person. No one can or should "force" someone to "like" anything. But one has at least to respect the sexuality of others even if you disagree with it. I mean laws which criminalize anything regarding homosexuality in schools for example goes way to far in my eyes.

I am not aiming at you directly. But as yugoslavian and knowing quite a few other east europeans (from Russians to Poles) I know that I can talk with anyone about "my" sexuality except with most of them ... it seems to be for them like a very very bad sickness and one even tried to explain it as a "treat" to humanity. - Gay people don't get children! OMG!. Which surprised me since he is pretty intelligent usually ...

I am not saying Germany (or any other western society) is doing everything perfect. But the eastern parts of Europe definitely have still a lot of work to do. They are somewhere in the situation where Germany was during the late 50s or 60s (some even worse ...), I mean in Serbia alone gay marches always end in some kind of brawl between the homosexuals and the people around them with the end that the police clubs the gays.
 
Token-not-found said:
Where else do you see ultranationalist skinhead groups with orthodox priests present, supporting them at protests and marches?

Crni has alredy said, ex-Yu countries have a big problem, along with some East European.

Here in Serbia, situation is, some would say, critical. I wouldn't say that, but it is highly problematic.

Gay people are, thanks to many public institutions, political spokesmen and orthodox, traditional beliefs, held as scourge by many, which is, of course, idiotic. Equality should be present, but it isn't easy to have it.

I, personally, have nothing against gay people, same sex marriages etc. However, I am against the parade. Strongly.

I see very little point in having a parade when there are obvious socio-political obstructions which could only bring to a disaster, as it was evident in Belgrade 2010 Pride.
LGBT activists had no problems then, but it was 6,000 (or so) policeman who defended the group from raging ultra nationalists, skinheads and members of far-right organizations. It was a disaster.
Rioters burned and smashed cars, shop-lifted and injured many people police officers. Luckily, no one was killed, but it was horrible.

This year's Pride had been cancelled two or three days before the day it was supposed to be held, and it was a problematic decision to bring, followed by a lot of political unrest and criticism.
 
I must say, hearing about inequality in Russia really surprises me, seeing as though all throughout the countries proud history, people have been the most equal of people in the world, what, with the likes of the USSR, and the likes of the KGB, the slaughter of the Polish, and the fatcat Vladimir Putin and how he is treated like a deity.
 
Sabirah said:
Not just Russia. Even we Indians have issues with tolerating the gay. I blame our large population for that, we take pride in that

I'm pretty sure homosexuality is illegal in India under the "Immoral acts" law or something. I read some really disturbing news articles over there, about kids being sent to jail for being gay.

I went to a gay bar in Chandigarh (I'm hetero BTW) just to see what the culture was like and those guys were really tame and conservative. I guess it was out of fear.
 
Dude101 said:
Sabirah said:
Not just Russia. Even we Indians have issues with tolerating the gay. I blame our large population for that, we take pride in that

I'm pretty sure homosexuality is illegal in India under the "Immoral acts" law or something. I read some really disturbing news articles over there, about kids being sent to jail for being gay.

I went to a gay bar in Chandigarh (I'm hetero BTW) just to see what the culture was like and those guys were really tame and conservative. I guess it was out of fear.

No, that's just us being Prudish. Homosexuality isn't illegal.


We Indians rarely talk about sex. It's just not really proper to act slutty in our culture.
 
People could be sentenced to up to 20 years in prison for anal sex in Singapore, it was considered an unnatural act...they might have relaxed the law recently, but still homosexuality was illegal for a very long time. Men indulging in anal sex with woman also faced the same penalty - party 'poopers'. :cry:
 
Atomkilla said:
I, personally, have nothing against gay people, same sex marriages etc. However, I am against the parade. Strongly. .
Though even if I probably would never go to such a parade I respect the people which do it. I mean it are those which actually fight for the rights and make it public. If people dont see it then they can pretend it does not exist. It is to enter the national spotlight. How did a homosexual said once (I forgot who) "Why gay pride ? Well it is just one day for us but it is everyday for heterosexuals" something alone those lines. I guess for a heterosxual his sexuality is no concern. No one thinks about it.
 
.Pixote. said:
People could be sentenced to up to 20 years in prison for anal sex in Singapore

Guess being invaded from behind by the Japanese during WWII left that spot a bit tender.
:V
 
I just confirmed with a Singaporean friend - the poop shoot is still against the law. I'll let Frank explain -

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAZ1BSmAubU&feature=related[/youtube]
 
Crni Vuk said:
I guess for a heterosxual his sexuality is no concern. No one thinks about it.

Essentially, my opinion on this (and of many people I know), is that I do not really care. This is a pretty rational attitude, taking into account the obvious.

One's sexuality is one's private matter, and they can resolve it in any way they want. I do not have a need to know about it, or for them to parade it in the streets, when it causes major problems, some would say, bigger than those of the sexual discrimination.

As for parade - I have nothing against it, as long as it doesn't prove to be a problem.
However, this is not Stockholm. Parade is a problem deeply rooted in the conscience of the mass. It is a taboo which when brought to light has a potential catastrophic outcome. Majority doesn't approve of it and it brings only chaos to the streets.

Yes, things should be different, but forcing a parade as number one priority won't help it. It can just make it worse (and it already has many times before).

As for those people who have, and still walk for gay rights, I can only salute them. I'd walk too, probably, were the situation different. But in this current state of affairs - no.
 
Gay parades seem more like a way of excluding yourself from society rather than trying to include yourself.

You know, like black people call each other the big N and say no one else should say that, then complain about being treated different. Don't treat yourself different...
 
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