Sean Brennan on Fallout 3 DLC

[AskWazzup]

I low how apocalyptic people tend to get when one brings up the idea that revenue keeps gaming studios from going under, be it revenue from adds, exclusive deals, box copies or DLC. It would be nice if every game was made by 2 guys in a garage and provided thousands of hours of content in a free boxed copy hand delivered to your doorstep, but that is simply not the way things work.

You were making it look as if these multy-million dollar companies are about to go down under if they won't release any more of these dlc's. And even when in a financial crisis, making content of poor quality for an unreasonably high price is not an excuse.

I really don't see why some people are suddenly troubled about companies like bethesda not making enough money (which is not the case), when they as customers should only be intrested in quality of the product, and by being a bit more critical, actually make them work for their money, instead of just taking everything that's thrown at them.

And I see where you are extrapolating that DLC will be the thing that destroys the gaming industry (why not art or the human race while you are at it?) but I don’t see how putting out one more cheaply produced product made with new and in game assets is so bad. I loved the Sam and Max return, I enjoyed Zeno Clash (a few hours of weird fun, download for 15-20 bucks), and I don’t mind paying for miniature expansions that provide stuff I’m interested in for a small price.

You're talking about poorly financed indie developers, which is all good (can you even consider zeno clash as dlc?), but i meant cheapass dlc's for the big titles and generally short crappy overhyped games.

If anything I fear that every game will be padded out to 20-40 bland hours when a cheap and cool experience like Portal or L4D feels like less of a rip-off than an rpg I’ll never finish because I don’t like killing the same rat 400 times.

And why should a game of that scope be bland, did your standarts fell so low, that you can't even imagine good games being long anymore?

I agree on portal and L4D though, pretty nice games. And i think people should support creative stuff like that, so that we might see longer , fullscale sequels.

And don’t get me started on Canon, I’m a comics fan and it breaks my heart when people prefer mediocre stuff that caters to their fanboyism over experimental stuff that misrepresents their childhood memories. Hell, you cant even make a “my little ponies” movie without some 40 y/o uber nerd coming out from under some rock and saying that they are using the wrong shade of pink on the horses. But yeah, people on the internet like throwing around words like rape over stuff like this…

Being experimental is ok, as long as you keep the core features that made the original so great, but alas it's usually not the case.

Overreacting to small changes is not good, but so is not reacting to a title being raped from all sides...

 

[Brother None]

I low how apocalyptic people tend to get when one brings up the idea that revenue keeps gaming studios from going under

Not the issue.

"We need to make money" is never a reason to overcharge for a low amount of service, even if the average consumer is too ill-informed to know he's being ripped off, as is the case with DLC

More seriously, the entire margin and profit system of the gaming industry is broken as shit, and has been a serious problem ever since PC was abandoned for consoles (with good reason really). DLC isn't fixing that, in fact it'll make the problem worse by acting as a stop-gap, fake fix, basically DLCs function as printed money and thus make up for the broken-ass profit margins.

There's a reason gaming companies were hit so disproportionally hard in a time when economically the gaming industry was still doing pretty well: it's systematically broken. And DLCs are very much so a part of the problem.

 

[Cimmerian Nights]

Ha! You can tell Hines hasn't gotten ahold of this guy yet, he actually shows candor and, you know, answers questions with actual information instead of stroking us off. Wacky huh?

I have to say it's disheartening seeing things from a standpoint that seems obsessed with revenue streams, but that's his job. I appreciate the guys candor and it's an interesting insight into the motivation behind what they do instead of that trite, disingenuous "we're big fans" stroke-job.

First Bethesda interview I've ever read that actually had "meat" in it instead of pure fluff. I expect Hines to slap the gag order on this dude but quick.

 

[MrBumble]

Q: Is there an issue with QA and testing internally at Bethesda?

Sean Brennan: I don't think so. It's something where we're producing a lot of content and we're working in partnership with Microsoft on this, we've produced a lot of content in a short time frame. Think of it like this – we're releasing a lot in terms of gameplay, it's about half a full-price game with 4-5 hours worth of gameplay, when there's only eight hours in some full-price titles. That process, for us and for Microsoft, it's inevitable in a sense that there's going to be some issues there. Obviously it has been a concern but I think we've ironed all of that out now. We're in a good position now, but it's not been how we wanted it.

Never thought of it this way...Makes sense ! Explains why it happenned with every single Bethesda title since...well, Daggerfall ( never played Arena )


Cut the BS please.

 

[Eternal]

Q: Is there an issue with QA and testing internally at Bethesda?

Sean Brennan: I don't think so. It's something where we're producing a lot of content and we're working in partnership with Microsoft on this, we've produced a lot of content in a short time frame. [u]Think of it like this – we're releasing a lot in terms of gameplay, it's about half a full-price game with 4-5 hours worth of gameplay, when there's only eight hours in some full-price titles.[/u] That process, for us and for Microsoft, it's inevitable in a sense that there's going to be some issues there. Obviously it has been a concern but I think we've ironed all of that out now. We're in a good position now, but it's not been how we wanted it.

The only 8hour games that people are actually BUYING rather than getting pissed off about are games with incredibly high levels of replay value in one form or another. Madworld is an amazing game with a fairly decent amount of replayability thanks to its point system (could have been more robust and had online leaderboards but there is always a "coulda") it has been given TONS of crap for being short with average playtime for running through the normal game being about 8hours. The only games with that low a level of play time typically are arcade style games. I rented Boom Blox for a weekend and me and a buddy put more than 8hours into the game in one sitting. Heavenly Sword (that ps3 God of War type game) got TONS of grief for being around a 6-8hour game that was graphically stunning and other than that extremely shallow and low replayability.

If these folks talk out their ass any more, they will start shitting out their eyeballs.

 

[lugaru]

You're talking about poorly financed indie developers, which is all good (can you even consider zeno clash as dlc?), but i meant cheapass dlc's for the big titles and generally short crappy overhyped games.

Well in the case of Zeno Clash I looked around and could not find a boxed copy on amazon or any other site... so as of right now the only way to play this Content is to download it.

Now I have my problems with much of what the music and film industry does to "protect itself", more worried about feeding its lawyers and suits than its developers. In games studios the notion of PR or Lobbying is new and for the most part game designers are still in control, very often the CEO does code.

Now I don’t buy this whole "they where cool until they got big" thing that people keep saying though. Pretty much every company started up as a small spec (especially in PC games) and at some point either they released a hit or they got bought up. Still the internet breeds these “instant experts” who can go to wikipedia, see how obscure a company is and then decide how to feel about them. Back in the day you bought your copy and several months later you know if it did well or not because it was either re-released or in bargain bins.

For me this idea that a gaming studio with proper funding is automatically evil smells of elitism, and a sort of elitism that is almost impossible to take seriously. “So he is an book or movie snob? No? Food snob? Wow no, maybe a beer snob? Oh, game snob… huh, ok.”

It just reminds me of all these hipsters who fall in love with a band based on a wikipedia entry and consider it their favorite although they haven’t heard any songs yet.

 

[Brother None]

Well in the case of Zeno Clash I looked around and could not find a boxed copy on amazon or any other site... so as of right now the only way to play this Content is to download it.

That doesn't make it a DLC, it makes it a digitally released game. Spiderweb RPGs aren't DLC either. Yes, they technically fit the definition, but nobody uses the term that way. "DLC" is purchasable extra content for a main game, that's the most common definition.

In games studios the notion of PR or Lobbying is new and for the most part game designers are still in control, very often the CEO does code.

Wow. You're honestly this naive? You're talking about the 90s here, this hasn't been the reality anymore for years now.

Now I don’t buy this whole "they where cool until they got big" thing that people keep saying though.

And good going misrepresenting people's opinions. There's a reason Bethesda went from an interesting novel game developer to a corporate prostitute, it's that they - in fact - became part of a bigger corporation, and it's been a slippery slope downwards ever since.

You can be big and cool. See Blizzard. Or Valve. But big implies a certain corporate attitude, and that attitude often leads to enjoyable, but horribly forgettable games.

<hr>

By the way, to anyone who missed it from part one:

Fallout wasn't a franchise even though it's got the numeral, we perceived it as a new brand because the last Fallout product came out ten years previously, it was PC only and it wasn't necessarily a huge hit. So it was a big challenge to focus exclusively on that with a small team. Pleasingly, we did very well, and in the UK market to date we've sold through over 750,000 according to Chart-Track, and in Europe overall we're close to two million sell-through. That's some big numbers that we've managed to achieve on the title. What's particularly gratifying in the UK is that we've established relationships with all key retailers and the support we got from them was quite staggering.

If they're close to 2 million sell-through in Europe alone, they'll easily be over 4 million WW.

Great success?

 

[lugaru]

If they're close to 2 million sell-through in Europe alone, they'll easily be over 4 million WW.

Great success?

Absolutely, why would I of all people be troubled by the idea of a game doing well? When it comes to PC, RPG and mature titles I would wish everyone out there picked up a copy.

See for me this is not a partisan issue, I enjoy the work of both Bethesda and Black Isle games and I hope that everyone who puts out a good entertaining game from Popcap's Peggle to the most obscure hex based historical wargame. Now a lot of games are not for me, but honestly I just could care less about them. For example I could say that only idiots would play a soccer management game and then if I picked one up I would be dumbfounded by the hundreds of athletes, statistics and details.

 

[Brother None]

Absolutely, why would I of all people be troubled by the idea of a game doing well?

:blinks:

How was that part of my message even remotely addressed to you in particular? For Frith's sake, dude, there was even a line to separate it, and a remark "to anyone who missed it". The hell dude?

 

[lugaru]

Absolutely, why would I of all people be troubled by the idea of a game doing well?

:blinks:

How was that part of my message even remotely addressed to you in particular? For Frith's sake, dude, there was even a line to separate it, and a remark "to anyone who missed it". The hell dude?

Hmmm... misunderstood you, happens a lot in text only conversation. I'll give it a rest I guess, If I'm missreading I'm not contributing to any sort of argument and I should be doing some work.