SeanMike on Fallout 3 as a sequel

Brother None

This ghoul has seen it all
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SeanMike, author of this preview on Fallout 3, shared some thoughts on sequels in his personal blog. After discussing true and rote sequels, he moves on to re-imagining sequels:<blockquote>These are the ones that when they get called a sequel they, in my opinion, often hurt the industry. The reason is that it confuses the fans and increases the disconnect between the developers and players unless it’s done in a very clear, dramatic fashion.

Fallout can make a good example of this. Fallout Tactics was quite a different game than Fallout 2. This was clear from the get-go, and while there may have been complaints about the gameplay in Fallout Tactics, it typically wasn’t that “it’s so different than Fallout 2!”

(At least, generally. The more fanatical of fans will find something to complain about in any kind of sequel of this manner, but most development companies can count on them to complain no matter what, and typically to buy the game no matter what.)

On the other hand, Fallout 3 is being called a sequel to Fallouts 1 and 2, and I think that’s a disservice to the games. While, technically, it is a sequel to the Fallout RPGs, it’s not a direct sequel. It’s set in a different area, with different characters, a different time, a different engine and a different style of RPG gameplay.

That’s what I feel like is causing a lot of the issues amongst the Fallout community right now. When you change something as minor as the type of engine some kind of car had in a game that you’re calling a direct sequel, you’re forcing either a ret-con (a retroactive change to continuity) in the original, usually beloved, game, or you’re doing something wrong.

On the other hand, if the game had come out as just “Fallout”, and Bethesda had said “Hey, we’re starting from the beginning and re-imagining the game in a number of ways” – well, the more die-hard fanatical fans will still complain, because they want the game they’ve always dreamed of (and aren’t going to get unless they can program themselves, because everyone wants something slightly differently and the company is looking for something that will sell the most among the population in general, not just the fans of the previous games). However, changing the engine of the cars, or the location of the Vault, or what have you, won’t matter so much, because it’s a similar, yet subtly different world.</blockquote>"Fallout" might not be a good choice, much like the new Superman and Batman were called Returns and Begins. Fallout: nuclear style or the like would've worked to identify it as not a direct sequel, tho'. Thoughts?

Link: SeanMike's blog: Sequels and You.

Thanks, Briosafreak.
 
Sounds like he gets the situation. His preview was also one of the better ones - not as rabidly sycophantic as the other horde. Good read, thanks.
 
His preview got quite a bit of flak over factual errors. But he was surprisingly willing to fix 'em and just go mea culpa, unlike some people who dig their heels in and just scream to deny any flaws
 
It's a sequel in the same way that final fantasy 2 was to final fantasy 1.

which is to say... it's not a sequel, it's a numbered series.
 
>_>

Fallout is already established as not just being a numbered set of games in the same setting, by Fallout 2 having less setting-wise and more gameplay-wise. That's the established pattern, Bethesda is just the third to break it.
 
Brother None said:
>_>

Fallout is already established as not just being a numbered set of games in the same setting, by Fallout 2 having less setting-wise and more gameplay-wise. That's the established pattern, Bethesda is just the third to break it.

I agree to a point... but I wouldn't exactly call 2 things an established pattern :P

I'm sure there are series out there where some are direct sequels, and some are less direct sequels.

Although, this is all semantics, would it really make everyone feel better if it had a different NAME? While I realize it's an ideology and principle, doesn't it seem a little bit silly in hindsight?


Maybe the new game could be called Fallout X!

lmao.
 
Does it matter? Do you think Batman and Superman fans would've sat there smiling if Batman and Superman were called Batman V and Superman IV, respectively?
 
Brother None said:
Does it matter? Do you think Batman and Superman fans would've sat there smiling if Batman and Superman were called Batman V and Superman IV, respectively?

I argue that the analogy is horrible, as batman fans are not as 'rabid' as fallout fans given he large amount of disappointments they've already had in the past.

Actually, I AM one of those obsessive batman fans. :/


superman is lame no one cares about superman fans.


And btw, yes, I do think they'd have sat there smiling. (which is why I think it's a bad analogy)

I get your point though.

I just think that the naming is a petty argument for the most part. There are legitimate reasons, but they're just ideological and don't really make any difference about the game to most people, except the most die-hard types.
 
Why don't they just call it Fallout: something something instead of Fallout 3?

He brought up something I've been wondering... how many of the people here criticizing it are still going to buy it?
 
On the other hand, Fallout 3 is being called a sequel to Fallouts 1 and 2, and I think that’s a disservice to the games. While, technically, it is a sequel to the Fallout RPGs, it’s not a direct sequel. It’s set in a different area, with different characters, a different time, a different engine and a different style of RPG gameplay.

That’s what I feel like is causing a lot of the issues amongst the Fallout community right now.
On the other hand, if the game had come out as just “Fallout”, and Bethesda had said “Hey, we’re starting from the beginning and re-imagining the game in a number of ways”
I think that we (most Fallout fans) would be happier if we could trick ourselves into thinking that Fallout 3 is just another action-RPG that just happens to have slight similarities to the original Fallout. Or we could start calling it Fallout: Drastic Re-imagining.

That or buy up a used copy of Oblivion for the PC and start practicing up on your modding skills. Can you model the real Brotherhood of Steel paladins and supermutants? Can you properly texture-skin them? If we got accurate-looking BoS paladins and supermutants running in Oblivion then it’s much more likely that Fallout 3 might be half-way enjoyable once all of the proper mods have been applied. And pray to the Holy Flame that Bethesda doesn’t cut modding out entirely.
 
Joe Kremlin said:
Why don't they just call it Fallout: something something instead of Fallout 3?

He brought up something I've been wondering... how many of the people here criticizing it are still going to buy it?

I think I speak for a lot of people (or maybe I don't maybe its just me)... Were not necessarily "Buying" it.
 
He brought up something I've been wondering... how many of the people here criticizing it are still going to buy it?
I will probably read all of the mainstream reviews and then read Brother None's review. If the bona fide Fallout fans don't like it, then I don't see myself paying retail because, you know, I don't want to encourage Bethesda. No matter what (unless it is FO:POS caliber crap) I will probably get it used from somewhere, if only to see it for myself. And if it turns out as bland as Oblivion then there might be lots of used copies up for sale within a few weeks of release.
 
xdarkyrex said:
I argue that the analogy is horrible, as batman fans are not as 'rabid' as fallout fans given he large amount of disappointments they've already had in the past.

Actually, I AM one of those obsessive batman fans. :/


superman is lame no one cares about superman fans.

spoken like a true DC fan, i'm with you xDarkyrex, although I have come to like superman as of late, Red Son is a really good read and the JLA have some good times... but all in all I like Superman as a supporting character, not a lead.

on topic, I will probably buy Fallout 3, I can afford to make a $60 mistake on my salary, and I'll be sure to preorder it to get some kind of useless merchandise for free.

Bethesda still has over a year to get it right, let's hope someone shakes things up in their head office, because it's not impossible to make something the fans will love and the general population will also be interested in, it just requires a fair amount of market research.

I'd be really happy if they named it something other than Fallout 3 too, but now i'm just being picky
 
NMA'ers should and probably will buy Fallout 3 if just so they can properly tear it apart.
It's not whether NMA'ers buy the game or not that matters. How many people NMA can influence with their critiques is what should worry Bethesda. The counter critiques that bethesda and nigh on the whole media they've managed to make follow, should be proof of that.

Why is it that every fallout 3 preview so far mentions the rabid fans and how they're not ever going to be satisfied and how we should "wait and see"?
I find this bork like ness disturbing.
 
I think this is something many people have been saying from the start.

Call it "Fallout: A first person post nuclear RPG" and be done with it. Drop the 3, and give us hope that when turn based RPG's become popular again, or the casual market bottom drops out we may one day get a true fallout 3, hopefully from a company other then Bethesda. We have waited 10 years, I guess we can wait another 10.

FYI, I won't buy it on principal alone.
 
For those that want to play it there is something called... E-bay. A way to get what you want without supporting the company.
 
SeanMike has voiced here what has already been said countless times on NMA. many of us believe that we wouldn't have been so opposed to the current FO3 if it had been named differently, like FO:BoS or FO:T. it is rather easy to ban those as 'not part of the series', but that is something you cant really do with FO3.

the thing is, when you explain that to people outside the FO community, they'll often just go "hey, lighten up, it's just a name". still, i'm sure they'd be equally pissed off if it happened to a series they loved...
 
On the other hand, if the game had come out as just “Fallout”, and Bethesda had said “Hey, we’re starting from the beginning and re-imagining the game in a number of ways” ...
It would have been very "good" if the game would come out as "The Elder Borrows : Fallout ". The game would take place in a nuked Tamriel !
Its all about money.The only thing that bethesda are thinking about right now is how they can make more money out of this franchise.They don't give a shit about pleasing the fans of the original Series or such things.
 
Sytxferryman said:
For those that want to play it there is something called... E-bay. A way to get what you want without supporting the company.
attaboy. that's how I got my hands on Oblivion to check out their design ideas. Passed it on gratis to another friend. (He owes me money, it's my way of punishing him. Making him play Oblivion. I'm sure he'll hate it.)
 
How many times do I have to say, call this something else (Fallout: Oblivion, Fallout:Washington Wasteland, FOBOS 2) and things would be much better?

Best thing- someone can stil do a fallout 3 the right way.
 
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