SeanMike on Fallout 3 as a sequel

[Sorrow]

He brought up something I've been wondering... how many of the people here criticizing it are still going to buy it?

I'm not buying it on principle. They have decided to not make a successor of Fallout.

 

[DirtyDreamDesigner]

The funny thing is TES V: Post Nuclear might have been a somewhat interesting game like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. that NMA might have even covered and written a review about.

As it stands Fallout 3 is an insult to Fallout fans and intelligent gamers everywhere.

 

[Bernard Bumner]

I'm not buying it on principle.

So, even if it turns out to be a good, if not actually spectacular, game you've already decided you're not going to buy it? It sounds a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face, to me.

I've given up on the idea that it is going to be a brilliantly worthy sequel, but if - on its own merits - it is a decent enough piece of entertainment, with enough fidelity and spirit to justify the Fallout sobriquet (as opposed to just being called "Fallout"), then I will buy it.

I don't see why a numeral should stand in the way of me enjoying a game. (Which isn't to say that I don't agree that it would be better to drop the 3.)

 

[Black]

I'm not buying it on principle.

So, even if it turns out to be a good, if not actually spectacular, game you've already decided you're not going to buy it? It sounds a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face, to me.

How about you? Do you buy EVERY good game out there?

 

[Bernard Bumner]

I'm not buying it on principle.

So, even if it turns out to be a good, if not actually spectacular, game you've already decided you're not going to buy it? It sounds a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face, to me.

How about you? Do you buy EVERY good game out there?

No, but I do buy every game I play, and I cetainly judge a game on its merits before deciding whether or not to buy it, and I buy every good game in a series that I'm a fan of.

I don't see what principle is at stake in buying Fallout 3 if - but only if - it turns out that Bethesda actually make a good game of it. (We know that there is very little chance of the game being a classic in the same sense as the originals, but it is a long way from certain that the game is going to be a bad one.)

 

[Black]

See, I like rpg, rts, strategy games mainly.
I'm interested in Fallout 3 because it was supposed to be a sequel and was supposed to be similiar- it wasn't supposed to be another fps game.
I don't buy fps games even if they're good because it's not my genre.
So, why should I make an exception for post-apo fps game by bethesda? I didn't even buy STALKER.
I wouldn't even be interested in beth's post-apo shoot-a-mutie but the fact that they're naming it Fallout and pretending it's a sequel makes me act like a glittering gem of hatred.

 

[Sorrow]

I don't see what principle is at stake in buying Fallout 3 if - but only if - it turns out that Bethesda actually make a good game of it. (We know that there is very little chance of the game being a classic in the same sense as the originals, but it is a long way from certain that the game is going to be a bad one.)

I don't want to reward people who are destroying Fallout. Also, I have a lot of things to buy and I don't have an infinite amount of money - I would paste a list, but Per told me to not do it anymore.

Not to mention that I'm not a fan of FPP RPGs.

 

[Bernard Bumner]

...I'm not a fan of FPP RPGs.

...I don't buy fps games even if they're good because it's not my genre.

See, those are much more reasonable explanations than simply some issue of numbering or naming.

Too easy to sound like one of those mythical rabid Fallout fanboys.

I enjoyed Ultima Underworld, so I'm not averse to good first-person RPGs...

 

[Sytxferryman]

I don't want to reward people who are destroying Fallout. Also, I have a lot of things to buy and I don't have an infinite amount of money - I would paste a list, but Per told me to not do it anymore.

Not to mention that I'm not a fan of FPP RPGs.

And as I stated earlier, and perhaps need to be more clear, there is a way to have the game and not support them at the same time... E-bay.

Its usually available the same week of its release on there and usually for the same or less AND your supporting someone else who bought the game... not Bethesda.

 

[d_agra]

For those that want to play it there is something called... E-bay. A way to get what you want without supporting the company.

attaboy. that's how I got my hands on Oblivion to check out their design ideas. Passed it on gratis to another friend. (He owes me money, it's my way of punishing him. Making him play Oblivion. I'm sure he'll hate it.)

I better way if u make him play it and if he hates it and then when he moaning how much he hates that turd, make him pay for it !!

thats punishment for you!!

 

[sickfuck_diablo]

I can relate to a series I loved going to shit...

without any warning or ime to prepare...

Tenchu 1 and 2 for PS were these amazing ninja stealth games. Really fun to play, pretty grusome/gory, and with a pretty good storyline, cutscenes, characters, etc. Wrath of Heaven for PS2 was even more amazing. So when I saw Fatal Shadows in the store I bought it without even thinking.

It was garbage! Well... from what I remember, the gameplay wasn't all that different or bad but there was something missing. The storyline was total shit, there weren't even any cut scenes, just the same screen saver and a voice over. I couldn't believe how horrible it was. Then I noticed the logo on the box was different...
from Tenchu's wikipedia entry..

Activision sold the rights to the Japanese game publisher From Software in 2004. From Software's rights agreement does not include games previously published by Activision. From Software licensed distribution of Fatal Shadows to Sega...

That made it a little easier to swallow. I could accept that a completely different developer went in and fucked up a series better than if the ones that made the originals stopped caring enough to make a shit game.

So I regard F3 as the equivalent of Tenchu: Fatal Shadows. Would I buy it if it didn't have the Fallout title/themes/character system? Probably not. They win again.

 

[Sorrow]

See, those are much more reasonable explanations than simply some issue of numbering or naming.

Bethesda is actively fighting to bury Fallout-like cRPGs and spreads lies about isometric perspective being outdated.
I'm not going to support them just like I don't support white supremacist or judeo-christian musicians.
Why should I give my money to someone who spreads lies about my culture?

Too easy to sound like one of those mythical rabid Fallout fanboys.

Now, that's fucking moronic. Imagine that people don't have any obligation to buy every fucking luxurious good, especially from a company that they dislike.

 

[Makagulfazel]

The funny thing is TES V: Post Nuclear might have been a somewhat interesting game like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. that NMA might have even covered and written a review about.

As it stands Fallout 3 is an insult to Fallout fans and intelligent gamers everywhere.

That's what made this community stay together so long: intelligent people. If there was a site ever dedicated to FOOS, I'm sure it's closed by now.

As for S.T.A.L.K.E.R., they changed their game's subtitle("Oblivion Lost" to "Shadow of Chernobyl") recently close to the game's supposed release. They still sold hundreds of thousands of copies(ref?), and they only had about an 1/8th of the hype as Fallout 3 has right now. If Bethesda really gave a fuck about the current community, as they claim, they would drop the 3 and make a subtitle right now.

 

[Bernard Bumner]

Why should I give my money to someone who spreads lies about my culture?

For their product, if its good, nothing more, nothing less.

Now, that's fucking moronic.

What, suggesting that giving a reasoned response is better than claiming some supposed lofty point of principle on the basis of Bethesda giving their game a number, rather than a subtitle?

Imagine that people don't have any obligation to buy every fucking luxurious good, especially from a company that they dislike.

Well, why would a I possibly assume that someone posting on a Fallout fansite would want to play a Fallout game, if it was good? Yeah, stupid me.

I wasn't suggesting that you should buy every good game out there, but I did sort of assume that you'd want to play a good Fallout game. (Not playing a good Fallout game just because it is made by a company, any company, that you don't like sounds a hell of a lot like cutting off your nose to spite your face: my original point.)

 

[Black]

I wasn't suggesting that you should buy every good game out there, but I did sort of assume that you'd want to play a good Fallout game.

I'd like to play a good Fallout game. Unfortunately, there isn't any in production.

 

[Sorrow]

Now, that's fucking moronic.

What, suggesting that giving a reasoned response is better than claiming some supposed lofty point of principle on the basis of Bethesda giving their game a number, rather than a subtitle?

Strawman argument. I wouldn't buy it even if it was called Fallout: Torr Howard's Atomic Adventures In DC.

Well, why would a I possibly assume that someone posting on a Fallout fansite would want to play a Fallout game, if it was good? Yeah, stupid me.

Except that it's not going to be a good Fallout did you miss all the previews and interviews?
I'm on a Fallout fansite, because I like Fallout, not because I wan't to play generic post-apo games from any genre.

 

[Bernard Bumner]

Strawman argument. I wouldn't buy it even if it was called Fallout: Torr Howard's Atomic Adventures In DC.

Yes, I see that, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make in the first place. I perhaps placed a little too much emphasis on the context of your original proclamation; it being in this thread. If I was misrepresenting you, then you have my appologies. (Although, actually, I had the first mention of principle, rather than yours, more in mind when I replied.)

Except that it's not going to be a good Fallout did you miss all the previews and interviews?

I'm not convinced of that, yet, but I'll admit that my sense of hopeless optimism has taken a bashing of recent.

If Bethesda can implement what we've seen so far but with a lot more subtlety than they've demonstrated so far, then it isn't quite dead at this point. There is still a lot of time before release, in which the game can change.

It is true that there is much that gives me reason for concern, and if the game is shit, then I'm with you in not buying it. Things like the Fatman are stupid, but as long as I'm not forced to use it (or better still, if they see sense and get rid of it - as if) then it doesn't affect me. I'm also not bothered by exploding nuclear cars, as long as they aren't some ubiquitous feature of the world; they could be rare, or possibly unique, in the final product. If they can step back from trying to gorge the game with sticky gimmicks and wizz-bangs, then they may well be able to produce something of merit.

Itv is not too late for the game to be good in the same way that, for instance, KOTOR or Diablo was good. I'd concede that any hopes of excellence have passed, but there never was much hope for that in the first place (...diminishing returns, and sequelitis, and all). Still, if it was as good as KOTOR, I would feel relieved and not cheated in paying for it.

 

[Tora]

Why should I give my money to someone who spreads lies about my culture?

For their product, if its good, nothing more, nothing less.

Let's look at a hypothetic situation.
Let us say, for some fucked up reason Ferrari went bankrupt. Because they decided to make "spin-offs" of their cars that were nothing like what people thought their cars should be like.

And then say.... Toyota or Honda picks up the brand.

And they go, 'sports cars with nice engines are so outdated, its all about the new hybrid and pure-electric cars nowadays' so they toss out all the original Ferrari technology, designs, and then they release what looks just like a regular Toyota/Honda designed car, but under the Ferrari brand.

The car *might* be good. The car *is* now a Ferrari because they own the name to it. But it ain't what the previous Ferrari buyers liked.

So people who wanted a Ferrari, well, are not obligated to buy the *new and improved* Ferrari for any reason beyond that "It ain't a Ferrari!"

 

[Brother None]

Bethesda is actively fighting to bury Fallout-like cRPGs and spreads lies about isometric perspective being outdated.
I'm not going to support them just like I don't support white supremacist or judeo-christian musicians.
Why should I give my money to someone who spreads lies about my culture?

The wording is a little extreme, but Sorrow is right. By taking one of the bastions of an alternative method of roleplaying design and putting it under the fold of their own, Bethesda-style design, Bethesda is effectively making a big step towards the death of Fallout-like cRPGs.

Plus they seem to have an active campaign to:
a. present Fallout as "dead" and themselves as the "saviours"
b. vilify us as a bunch of rabid lunatics and definitely not a viable consumerbase
c. make all of Fallout's core design tenets seem "dead." And they are "dead," but only if Bethesda kills them

 

[Bad_Karma]

At least some journalists showed up here, or showed that the also read what 'rabid fans' are writting. I think that's at least an somewhat good sign...

Thumbs up for SeanMike.

I think the major problem we the fans got with the 'Fallout 3' thing is that it will be hard to be ignored in further Fallout productions.
It's easy to say "Okay that was a spin-off the story isn't completly canon. The gameplay don't need to be so, because it was just a gameplay" (by the way you might notice, here, that i think, that a sequel needs to have gameplay that's nearly the same to the 'original').
But when you call it F3, then how will the next company owning the name or the next developing team be able to say "Ahh okay... that was totally screwed up, don't think about this game, F4 will be a lot better, when all people will clearly see, that there were a third installation of the series.
Okay you could call the fourth Fallout - Fallouht Three (but that might end up in some law-suits i think ).