Sept 11-

welsh

welsh

Junkmaster
While I am not sure how some of the non-Americans feel about this, in the States there are memorials all over the country to remember what happened two years ago. So today is an informal day of reflection.

In the days following 9-11 I remember hearing many people saying "and now the world will never be quite the same for Americans." Is it true?

But there was an Israeli woman woman who said. "Now America is finally exposed to the realities of the world which the oceans around it have for so long shielded it. However, you may be shocked to find how soon your life will get back to normal, how these things just become part of daily life and you just go on with it."

I know a lot of my students look back at 9-11 with the expectation that the world has changed remarkably. There was also a discussion that many of the people who actually suffered in 9-11 are only now showing the sypmtoms of their post-traumatic stress.

What do you think?
 
Sep-11-01, 02:44 PM (GMT)
Click to expand...

This is how NMA cope with what was going on:
http://www.nma-fallout.com/dcforum/index.cgi?az=show_thread&om=1119&forum=ForumID2&omm=0

After a few days tracing how people in the Fallout community were, we found that only a friend of Dan Wood, from DAC, had died, and another friend from Elara, from the Project, had been injured.
Me and Slamák had an awfull day, searching for people that could be hurt for some reason, we were worried with Aptyp, i can`t remember why.

Well i`m going to read what we wrote in those days, and think about what all of that meant for me, how were my thoughts at that time, and what changed.
 
Well, here's what I posted on The Order's board...

...

Well, I think it is very important to remember 9-11.

I'm not the most patriotic person in the world, but you have to realise we lost a LOT on 9/11/01.

America lost 3000 innocent people. We lost our sense of security. We lost our future (imagine what your life would be like had 9/11 not happened? probably not much different...but I guarantee it affected you in some small way). We also lost, I believe, our innocence as a nation.

We had never seen anything like that, before 9/11. The Oklahoma City bombing, the first attack on the Towers, the assassination of JFK...these are small events compared to the tragedies that struck New York, The Pentagon, and that small Pennsylvanian field, as well as the families and friends of the 3000+ innocents lost.

It is important to remember and commemmorate 9/11, as a tragedy, as the end of an era, as the day that America learned that we are not invincible.

...

Meh, just some thoughts.

-Malky
 
Happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthday to Loxley, happy birthday to me.

That is my thoughts about 11 september simple as that.

It does not matter to much to me after all.
1. because bush and his administration has been screaming it for so long it has become boring.
2. The press has done the same.
3. It has been used as a reason to kill much more people than the people that died during the attack.

Damn i´m 19 years old.
:D
 
Briosafreak said:
Me and Slamák had an awfull day, searching for people that could be hurt for some reason, we were worried with Aptyp, i can`t remember why.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you were afraid that God would punish me for my sins by dropping a Pennsylvania plane on my house. Fat chance!
 
I did the theoretical part of the exam to get my driver's licence today (and passed!) and while waiting on the bus to get back home, I had this conversation with a muslim girl (from Tunesia). One of the first things she asked me was about this 11/9 thing and Iraq and Bin Laden and Bush. Told her I really felt for the people who lost someone precious in the WTC and she just started to laugh! She said Bin Laden is her biggest hero (Khadaffi from Libia - don't know how you write his name - was her second biggest hero). And get this: she said she did not only hate Bush and his lakeys, but ALL Americans, even civilians and European people who wear American symbols on their clothes and stuff. I started to feel really scared (I was drinking a can of Coca-Cola and smoking a Marlboro cigarette). I started to think that maybe I had to push her under a car or something and change her into a pile of steaming hot kebab, but I didn't of course, since I didn't want to mess up the pavement. The conversation went downhill from then on, though.

On the other hand: Bush is a piece of brahmin crap too, but somehow I can't understand some of these muslims. The sheer hatred. The violence. I just don't get it...
 
The Muslims have been fighting a war they can't win with the Jews ever since Israel was established. While I don't support either side, it would be nice to see the US stop giving the Jews that military aid.
The way I see it, Al Qaeda (sp?) planned the attacks to get back at the US for the Israel situation.
Yes, before you say it, I dislike Jews.
 
Osama just started talking about Palestine more often in 98, as a way to try to gather support that he was needing on some regions of the world where he was expanding his work setting up "franchises"...

After 9/11 he started to talk a lot about it, wich is ironic since he always dispised Arafat, that he used to call "Socialist", like Sadam...

So your idea doesn`t stick very well Skynet, and giving the fact that i have good muslim friends and jewish friends (like Dan who is a moderator and newsie here on NMA) i don`t really apreciate people that make anti-semitic statements.
 
Israel is commiting some very dubious actions, and has been doing it ever since the establishment of it's state. They just took a piece of land, which wasn't theirs, and then drove away the Palestines with force. While they were treated horribly in WW2, that doesn't mean they couldvé just taken a piece of land to live in.
As well as that, recently, it has gotten worse and worse, I'm partial to the Palestinian side here, because I think they are in their right to want their land back, or at least live in Israel as well. The whole holy place thing is also very irritating there.

HOWEVER, disliking Jews is completely irrational. Jews aren't something because of their genetics, or because they are Jewish. Jews act some way, either because they were raised that way, or because they believe something that usually has little do with them being Jewish. If you dislike what Israel is doing, fine, HOWEVER, realise that by far not all Jews actually support the exact things that happen there. Like in all other countries and groups, there is friction, and people disagree. Generalisation is NEVER a good thing.
 
Actually,
A) The majority of Palestinians came over as workers when the Jews started coming in.
B) The Palestinians lost all moral highground when they commited Genocide against the Lebonese so they could have thier own land
C) Palestine for the Palestianians would be litte, if at all diffirent from Palestine during the Ottoman Empire. The Isrealis have created a Secular Democratic state, with an advancing GDP. Note that they are the only Democray in the Mid East, unless you include Turkey (which you dont) or Bahrain (which is over the last 10 years).
I find it funny that while the Europeans are the ones who killed Jews for a millinea, we are the ones who support Isreal. Still think Europe is that diffirent from what it was a hundread years ago?
 
A) The majority of Palestinians came over as workers when the Jews started coming in.
B) The Palestinians lost all moral highground when they commited Genocide against the Lebonese so they could have thier own land
Click to expand...


Constipated where do you get these ideas? I`ve been studying this issue for years, talked to palestines and arabs, jews, attended conferences on it, saw discussions about it with former secretary generals of the General Assembly of the UN, embassadors, reporters that lived there, made papers on it and i can`t see where did you get those ideas, from points a and b.

You are probably refereing to something true, so maybe i`m not getting the point, but could you explain a bit more how did you get that information?
 
1) Over the last hundred years Jews have begun moving into the area of Palestine with the Zionist movement. These where modern people bent on the creation of a moden state. They had money to hire Palistinians. Before the Jews, Arabs had no reason to live in Palistine- it was not on the road to Mecca, so it was not a trade, tourist destination, there was no real important Muslim sites, and there was no real money anywhere.
2) The Maronites and GO have been in Lebanon sense the beggining of Civilization. Until 1950, the majority of people where Christian, yet 2/3 of the political system was Muslim (one Sunni, one Shiite, one Maronite). Then, as they started outbreeding the Maronites, and a good million Palistinains moved in, they claimed that they need more then 2/3 of the political structure, yet the number was appropriate. Then as a civil war develpoed, a mass Christian emigration has taken place.
Welsh, you have been to Brazil I presume? Everywhere the Lebonese presense is felt, due to the exodus.
The Lebanese where the Swiss of the mid east, now they are Palestine 2. Cant blame that on the Jews, can you Europe?
 
C) Palestine for the Palestianians would be litte, if at all diffirent from Palestine during the Ottoman Empire. The Isrealis have created a Secular Democratic state, with an advancing GDP. Note that they are the only Democray in the Mid East, unless you include Turkey (which you dont) or Bahrain (which is over the last 10 years).
I find it funny that while the Europeans are the ones who killed Jews for a millinea, we are the ones who support Isreal. Still think Europe is that diffirent from what it was a hundread years ago?
Click to expand...
What the fuck? YOu're saying that because the Germans, led by a charismatic but completely crazed man killed millions of Jews, and because there have been incidents where Jews as a minority group have been singled out as a scapegoat, suddenly ALL of the Europeans TODAY should say "Yes, we did terrible things to them, lets just give them a piece of land not even remotely belonging to them, unless you talk about millenia old religious texts."
If that is the case, then I'd like to have Italy apologise for Caesar, and I'd like to have Spain give us riches for repressing the Netherlands.

And now you're also being the arrogant American who thinks that every state in the world should be democratic, just because YOU think that is best for them. Yay, Israel has a democracy, great for them, but that doesn't detract from other types of government in the region.

1) Over the last hundred years Jews have begun moving into the area of Palestine with the Zionist movement. These where modern people bent on the creation of a moden state. They had money to hire Palistinians. Before the Jews, Arabs had no reason to live in Palistine- it was not on the road to Mecca, so it was not a trade, tourist destination, there was no real important Muslim sites, and there was no real money anywhere.
Click to expand...
Indeed, but it WAS their land. YOu don't go about taking the entire USA away from teh Americans and giving it to the Indians because they used to live there.

A) The majority of Palestinians came over as workers when the Jews started coming in.
Click to expand...
Your point being???
B) The Palestinians lost all moral highground when they commited Genocide against the Lebonese so they could have thier own land
Click to expand...
So I suppose the Germans aren't allowed to own land after WW2, and that the French aren't allowed to because of Napoleon, and that the Americans aren't allowed to because they drove the INdians away.
 
And now you're also being the arrogant American who thinks that every state in the world should be democratic, just because YOU think that is best for them
Click to expand...
Anyone who would rather see twenty thousand of your country men elminated in the shelling of a thousand year old city, raise your hand.
Anyone who thinks that wearing Burqas, not being able to go to school if you are female and being subject to the will of men is better then what we have, plese raise your hand.
Anyone who thinks that a pathetic autocracy that has nothing to do with any reliable government that is good for the people is viable anywhere,plese raise your hands.
Everyone has a right to democracy; ever read the "Decleration of Independance"? "Self Evident" does NOT mean that we bend over to the will of governments opressing thier people, not now, not EVER.
Indeed, but it WAS their land
Click to expand...
Hurrah, lets destroy a large economy because these Arab peasents thinks it is best! That makes about as much sense as "Australia for the Aborigionese".
Your point being???
Click to expand...
It WASNT thier land. THEY came over. IF you think that there was ever a 90% muslim Majority, or if at any point in the twentieth and later ninteenth century there was a Muslim majority, you are WRONG.
So I suppose the Germans aren't allowed to own land after WW2, and that the French aren't allowed to because of Napoleon, and that the Americans aren't allowed to because they drove the INdians away.
Click to expand...
No, actually I think Prussia should be given to the Germans, but that was 50 years ago, and they have REPENTED. The PALESTINIANS are still doing it! It is like giving all of Czechslovakia to the Germans because of the Sundentenland!
 
Anyone who would rather see twenty thousand of your country men elminated in the shelling of a thousand year old city, raise your hand.
Anyone who thinks that wearing Burqas, not being able to go to school if you are female and being subject to the will of men is better then what we have, plese raise your hand.
Anyone who thinks that a pathetic autocracy that has nothing to do with any reliable government that is good for the people is viable anywhere,plese raise your hands.
Everyone has a right to democracy; ever read the "Decleration of Independance"? "Self Evident" does NOT mean that we bend over to the will of governments opressing thier people, not now, not EVER.
Click to expand...
Is it not stated in the USA law that people should be left to their own government? Democracy is all fine and dandy, but just because YOU think everyone should have a democracy, does NOT mean that it is the best for all of those countries. Many countries went bad after introducing a democracy and a capitalist form of government too soon.

Hurrah, lets destroy a large economy because these Arab peasents thinks it is best! That makes about as much sense as "Australia for the Aborigionese".
Click to expand...
No, but let's let the Palestinians live in Israel as well, whereas I don't support "terrorist" attacks(Which would be consideed healthy and good fights for freedom/your home country if the Palestinians were winning), I certainly do NOT support the "This is our country, Palesitinians get out and never return"policy taht Israel has recently been following.

It WASNT thier land. THEY came over. IF you think that there was ever a 90% muslim Majority, or if at any point in the twentieth and later ninteenth century there was a Muslim majority, you are WRONG.
Click to expand...
Then I'm sorry for not having all of the facts, however, I would like to ask you to give me some facts then. As well as that, I never said that the Israeli should get out of there, I think the Palesitinians should be allowed to live there as well AND have a good say in government form.

No, actually I think Prussia should be given to the Germans, but that was 50 years ago, and they have REPENTED. The PALESTINIANS are still doing it! It is like giving all of Czechslovakia to the Germans because of the Sundentenland!
Click to expand...
So are the Israeli, they aren't really oing for a peaceful solution from what I am seeing. With exiling Arafat, for instance, they aren't exactly working towards a peaceful nation. In fact, when there IS an attack, they initiate vengeance actions, aimed for terrorists, but often harming civilians as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top