John Uskglass
Venerable Relic of the Wastes
http://unitedleft.com/index/article.php?story=20050324211242185
In Soviet Russia, Schiavo retards YOU!
In Soviet Russia, Schiavo retards YOU!
Shiavo case
- Thread starter welsh
- Start date
Venerable Relic of the Wastes
greatatlantic
It Wandered In From the Wastes
The latest poll I looked at showed Americans on a whole siding with the husband 2:1. The problem is the minority are the kind of people who vote in Republican primaries. Technically, Jeb Bush (governor of Florida) could sign an executive order and put Terri Schiavo into a state ward, but that would be such a flagrant abuse of power that courts would inevitably overturn it and critics decry it as such.
Anyways, my stance on the issue has always been the husband is the primary care giver and the one best suited to decide her medical needs and wishes. The fact a court (which actually listened to the evidence from medical experts) agreed should have been the end of the issue. The only problem is the parents don't agree with the husband and are being quite obnoxious about it. Now, for a parent to outlive their child is one of the most painful and agnozing things. I remember my great grandmother just bawling at my grandfathers funeral... so I can sympathize, but grief is not a legal argument.
Anyways, I don't know if her moans are motory reflexes or a sign of minimal conscienous, but a right to life does not mean there isn't a time to die. Considering the big hub bub about the sancitity of marriage last election, I think people ought to be respecting it now.
Anyways, my stance on the issue has always been the husband is the primary care giver and the one best suited to decide her medical needs and wishes. The fact a court (which actually listened to the evidence from medical experts) agreed should have been the end of the issue. The only problem is the parents don't agree with the husband and are being quite obnoxious about it. Now, for a parent to outlive their child is one of the most painful and agnozing things. I remember my great grandmother just bawling at my grandfathers funeral... so I can sympathize, but grief is not a legal argument.
Anyways, I don't know if her moans are motory reflexes or a sign of minimal conscienous, but a right to life does not mean there isn't a time to die. Considering the big hub bub about the sancitity of marriage last election, I think people ought to be respecting it now.
I was talking about this issue with my dad, and he suggested some really outlandish things which i hadn't heard on the news, insisting on media bias and the need to listen to "fair and balanced" news (ie Bill O Reily). He suggested that terri's husband verbally abused her into an eating disorder which resulted in this vegetative state. Afterward, tons of money was placed into a fund which michael initially promised to use to pay for terri's care, but he then recanted this promise. Michael is now pushing for terri's death so he can inherit this money.
Is my dad insane?
Is my dad insane?
Unless he can come up with some decent sources, ie. anything but Bill O'Reilly and company, he is indeed insane.
:-\ Yeah I noticed he's become more "political" lately in my discussions with him. Maybe stress? Although it's not fair to accuse people who talk strongly about political things as suffering from an abnormal amount of stress, the way he talked was full of rhetoric I'd heard when I'd watch various Christian Right guest speakers on CNN programs. Since I don't frequently watch FOX news, I've heard very little of this "abusive" side of the story. I guess more to the point, I was wondering if any of you guys have heard anything on this aspect? It sounds more like conjecture and muddled facts to me. (It's very easy to accuse someone of being abusive. I had also heard a story relating to a christian right guy offering michael 2 million to follow through with terri's parents wishes, the same amount my dad mentioned hearing had been placed in the magical fund which Michael apparently hopes to inherit.)
greatatlantic
It Wandered In From the Wastes
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7290818/page/3/
"By 1989, Rhodes says, Terri and Michael were having marital problems. The Schindlers have suggested the same in recent years. The Schiavos dispute that claim. Still, both Rhodes and Michael Schiavo (in an interview with CNN) say that the couple had been trying to conceive a child. Terri went to see a gynecologist to address problems with an irregular menstrual cycle.
The last time she spoke to Terri, Rhodes says, she had just gone to get her hair done. Terri was toying with going back to her natural color, so Rhodes called that Saturday to ask what she had decided. Terri, Rhodes says, was in tears; she and Michael had had a fight over the cost of the salon visit."
Thats from a short biography of Terri Schiavo's life, when she was still living it. Anyways, sounds like the exact same thing 90% of marriages go through these days.
As for the money angle, I couldn't find a link to an article, but its baloney. He was basically offered a million dollars in the form of Mrs. Schiavo's trust fund if he would just divorce her and sign custody to the parents.
Oh, and tell your father if he thinks FOX news is fair and balanced, he's an idiot. Just go out and say it. Its not just the commentary shows like O'Reilly or Hannity and other guy, its their round the clock coverage. They don't cover the war, they cover the people protesting the war and hurting our troops morale.
Here are a few more links for the Schiavo case:
"Schiavo case tests GOP alliances, priorities"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7297597/
"Gov. Bush: I can't help Terri Schiavo"
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html
"By 1989, Rhodes says, Terri and Michael were having marital problems. The Schindlers have suggested the same in recent years. The Schiavos dispute that claim. Still, both Rhodes and Michael Schiavo (in an interview with CNN) say that the couple had been trying to conceive a child. Terri went to see a gynecologist to address problems with an irregular menstrual cycle.
The last time she spoke to Terri, Rhodes says, she had just gone to get her hair done. Terri was toying with going back to her natural color, so Rhodes called that Saturday to ask what she had decided. Terri, Rhodes says, was in tears; she and Michael had had a fight over the cost of the salon visit."
Thats from a short biography of Terri Schiavo's life, when she was still living it. Anyways, sounds like the exact same thing 90% of marriages go through these days.
As for the money angle, I couldn't find a link to an article, but its baloney. He was basically offered a million dollars in the form of Mrs. Schiavo's trust fund if he would just divorce her and sign custody to the parents.
Oh, and tell your father if he thinks FOX news is fair and balanced, he's an idiot. Just go out and say it. Its not just the commentary shows like O'Reilly or Hannity and other guy, its their round the clock coverage. They don't cover the war, they cover the people protesting the war and hurting our troops morale.
Here are a few more links for the Schiavo case:
"Schiavo case tests GOP alliances, priorities"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7297597/
"Gov. Bush: I can't help Terri Schiavo"
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html
Survival Of The RICHEST
Survival Of The RICHEST
Pardon my forth coming, political hand gesture, for I am too old, not to know what my last days may be like, and too young to die quietly. Pardon all the "I's" and "me's" because I have a personal link to the issue.
Creationists please stick your hypothetical heads in the sands.
The Social Darwinists OF ALL POLITICAL PERSUASIONS are on the march to a BRAVE NEW WORLD of 'tax free' euthanasia.
Some Bright Spark On Page One:
In America, ...
It all comes down to "pay to play".
The Bush / Republican / FOX NEWS apologists still maintain the political imperative to HAMSTRING Medicare and Social Security.
The majority of ECONOMICALLY PRODUCTIVE, TAX PAYING, VALUE ENHANCING Americans, millions of Christian Souls, are left to bribe the Health Insurance Industry and the Medical Doctor Monopoly for a few years of life, until the INSURANCE MONEY is gone.
........
Personally, I would have left this woman to be supported to her last artificially supported breath, left her to her to her Catholic mom and dad, and their Insurance Provider.
...........
Billions for Defense, and not a dime's worth of spit, to truly reform Social Security and Medicare. Hell of a way to spread democracy though out the solar system, (REMEMBER Bush plans to put more boots on Mars than he and Rumsfeld planned for Iraq.). Hell of a way to spread democracy, the early graves of elderly tax payers.
If the politicians, opportunistic lobbyists, 'right to life' hypocrites, the sorry miasma of homophobic christians, AND FOX NEWS will posture FOR POLITICAL POINTS, then I must side with those that will allow all Americans, THE LIBERTY, to choose their ""Last Stand"".
The RIGHt of EVERY American to "'save the last bullet for themselves"".
My Mother, my Grandfathers, died painful deaths from Cancer.
I may find I have a similar destiny in 5 or 10 years.
In five or ten years, I may be out of work, out of Medicare, and dying a painful slow death while 'hip' young NEO CONS stroke their 'pet' piss ant of a tax cut, LORD GOD Haliburton and the friends of Bush-Cheney will flaunt, fellate, and speculate their Billions of worthless American Dollars, ... as the RED Chinese and Walmart .... eat AMERICAS' lunch.
But hey, if the ruling elite of this American Oligarchy, doesn't out source my job(s), I may have the preventative health care to carry on.
I may be able to cradle my Second Amendment Placebo to my "" last over dose "" on pain killers, and never have to consider if a deer slug or double '00' would be the quickest way to a pain free eternity in Hell.
Maybe Satan will give me the job as ""Greeter"" so I can laugh at all you idiot savants who sold their souls for an AR-15 the 'liberal' idiot savants could never touch as long as the 'gun huggers' were street smart, or that 1 or 2 or 3 hundred dollar tax cut that damned all elderly relatives, me and mine, to an early burial in the local land fill.
What a way to 'salve' the issue of Social Security solvency, KILL all the OLD PEOPLE!
---- Perhaps I could be more careful what fate I would wish for. ------
Perhaps I could merely say - 'shame'- to all the Bush / Republican
Apologists that are maneuvering for a short painful life for me and millions of Americans. These christian supermen will 'sell' the 'nuclear'
snuffing of Iran like it was a cheap car. These pillars of christian moral values ponder a similar "nuclear option' in the Senate
to Gerrymander an ETERNAL Republican Majority that will make the one time Republic, tax free for those that have, while the rest will pay and PAY.
So I'm NOT to take POLITICS PersonallY? What rock in Kansas did YOU just crawl out from under. (My people lurked in Wyndotte and Johnson Counties, how's the weather in Leavenworth?)
And, will the PUNDITS of all Shades, care to visit the "pet" they have made of this poor lost woman, when all the posturing marches elsewhere. Please leave her to the mercy of her parents, their priest, and their doctors.
Why use this 99 and a half % disabled woman to beat the judical system that may 'live' to check the guaranteed obscenities of legislatures and privileged executives.
Meanwhile, in my little pond.
If all goes well, I may have a decade or so to ponder the pitiful polka-dots on my self righteous boogers.
Outside of all this death bed bitterness, you all have a good, (relatively) pain free life,
ya' hear!
4too
Survival Of The RICHEST
Pardon my forth coming, political hand gesture, for I am too old, not to know what my last days may be like, and too young to die quietly. Pardon all the "I's" and "me's" because I have a personal link to the issue.
Creationists please stick your hypothetical heads in the sands.
The Social Darwinists OF ALL POLITICAL PERSUASIONS are on the march to a BRAVE NEW WORLD of 'tax free' euthanasia.
Some Bright Spark On Page One:
In America, ...
It all comes down to "pay to play".
The Bush / Republican / FOX NEWS apologists still maintain the political imperative to HAMSTRING Medicare and Social Security.
The majority of ECONOMICALLY PRODUCTIVE, TAX PAYING, VALUE ENHANCING Americans, millions of Christian Souls, are left to bribe the Health Insurance Industry and the Medical Doctor Monopoly for a few years of life, until the INSURANCE MONEY is gone.
........
Personally, I would have left this woman to be supported to her last artificially supported breath, left her to her to her Catholic mom and dad, and their Insurance Provider.
...........
Billions for Defense, and not a dime's worth of spit, to truly reform Social Security and Medicare. Hell of a way to spread democracy though out the solar system, (REMEMBER Bush plans to put more boots on Mars than he and Rumsfeld planned for Iraq.). Hell of a way to spread democracy, the early graves of elderly tax payers.
If the politicians, opportunistic lobbyists, 'right to life' hypocrites, the sorry miasma of homophobic christians, AND FOX NEWS will posture FOR POLITICAL POINTS, then I must side with those that will allow all Americans, THE LIBERTY, to choose their ""Last Stand"".
The RIGHt of EVERY American to "'save the last bullet for themselves"".
My Mother, my Grandfathers, died painful deaths from Cancer.
I may find I have a similar destiny in 5 or 10 years.
In five or ten years, I may be out of work, out of Medicare, and dying a painful slow death while 'hip' young NEO CONS stroke their 'pet' piss ant of a tax cut, LORD GOD Haliburton and the friends of Bush-Cheney will flaunt, fellate, and speculate their Billions of worthless American Dollars, ... as the RED Chinese and Walmart .... eat AMERICAS' lunch.
But hey, if the ruling elite of this American Oligarchy, doesn't out source my job(s), I may have the preventative health care to carry on.
I may be able to cradle my Second Amendment Placebo to my "" last over dose "" on pain killers, and never have to consider if a deer slug or double '00' would be the quickest way to a pain free eternity in Hell.
Maybe Satan will give me the job as ""Greeter"" so I can laugh at all you idiot savants who sold their souls for an AR-15 the 'liberal' idiot savants could never touch as long as the 'gun huggers' were street smart, or that 1 or 2 or 3 hundred dollar tax cut that damned all elderly relatives, me and mine, to an early burial in the local land fill.
What a way to 'salve' the issue of Social Security solvency, KILL all the OLD PEOPLE!
---- Perhaps I could be more careful what fate I would wish for. ------
Perhaps I could merely say - 'shame'- to all the Bush / Republican
Apologists that are maneuvering for a short painful life for me and millions of Americans. These christian supermen will 'sell' the 'nuclear'
snuffing of Iran like it was a cheap car. These pillars of christian moral values ponder a similar "nuclear option' in the Senate
to Gerrymander an ETERNAL Republican Majority that will make the one time Republic, tax free for those that have, while the rest will pay and PAY.
So I'm NOT to take POLITICS PersonallY? What rock in Kansas did YOU just crawl out from under. (My people lurked in Wyndotte and Johnson Counties, how's the weather in Leavenworth?)
And, will the PUNDITS of all Shades, care to visit the "pet" they have made of this poor lost woman, when all the posturing marches elsewhere. Please leave her to the mercy of her parents, their priest, and their doctors.
Why use this 99 and a half % disabled woman to beat the judical system that may 'live' to check the guaranteed obscenities of legislatures and privileged executives.
Meanwhile, in my little pond.
If all goes well, I may have a decade or so to ponder the pitiful polka-dots on my self righteous boogers.
Outside of all this death bed bitterness, you all have a good, (relatively) pain free life,
ya' hear!
4too
Elric
First time out of the vault
I agree.
Elric, please don't make rather useless posts. Unless you have something to add to the conversation at hand, it is better that you don't post at all. We try to encourage thoughtful discussions.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Elric said:
If ever there was a way to take all of the umph out of a statement, you certainly have found it. Bravo, sir.
The Vault Dweller
always looking for water.
Elric said:
Psychosniper the Return!
Dun, dun, dun!!!!!!!!,
The Vault Dweller
Yes, yes, I believe Elric will understand the point. Now let us keep an eye on the topic on hand, shall we?
After I read 4too's post I too was going to simply say that I agree, but reading further I see that would be berated.
Given the flaming that Elric received I would like to put forth that sometimes simple ascent to an opinion is all that is warranted.
I could tell you that I study political science, or that I have studied the Constitution in particular, including the Federalist Papers (which for those of you that do not know, are together arguably the most comprehensive evaluation of the US Constitution, written by some of the men that drafted that famed document, and on which practically all following opinions, at least the well researched and most well regarded in the intellectual community, are at least partly dependent on), or that politics are my hobby in general apart from the formal education I have received so far.......
I could tell you about the news articles and political opinions I have read, what pivotal events in my life have led to my current position, what my personal religious beliefs are, my political leanings, and on what points I disagree with the beliefs of others.....
However, I believe that would be simple masturbation of my ego and not really relevant to the points made by 4too. I would just be making myself, and by extension the point which I am trying to support, vulnerable to simple derision of my beliefs and/or questions of whether I am truthful or simply lying to make myself appear to be more than I am.
As it stands, I believe that 4too has provided an excellent, eloquent yet concise, argument on behalf of the point of view which I hold. I believe that any elaboration by me, as apparently automatically expected by some members of this forum, would be rehashing the points already made by 4too, likely only having the effect of diluting them.
Therefore, at this time, I declare my simple agreement with the opinion of 4too as stated by his latest post on this forum. By this act I seek to simply strengthen said argument by affirming that 4too (and apparently Elric) does not stand alone in his view of the political situation being discussed in this thread. That is the most valuable contribution I see I can make to this thread at this time.
If new issues are raised, which I feel are not being addressed adequately by anyone else, I may then decide to further clarify my point of view. Until such time.....to reiterate....
I agree with 4too.
Given the flaming that Elric received I would like to put forth that sometimes simple ascent to an opinion is all that is warranted.
I could tell you that I study political science, or that I have studied the Constitution in particular, including the Federalist Papers (which for those of you that do not know, are together arguably the most comprehensive evaluation of the US Constitution, written by some of the men that drafted that famed document, and on which practically all following opinions, at least the well researched and most well regarded in the intellectual community, are at least partly dependent on), or that politics are my hobby in general apart from the formal education I have received so far.......
I could tell you about the news articles and political opinions I have read, what pivotal events in my life have led to my current position, what my personal religious beliefs are, my political leanings, and on what points I disagree with the beliefs of others.....
However, I believe that would be simple masturbation of my ego and not really relevant to the points made by 4too. I would just be making myself, and by extension the point which I am trying to support, vulnerable to simple derision of my beliefs and/or questions of whether I am truthful or simply lying to make myself appear to be more than I am.
As it stands, I believe that 4too has provided an excellent, eloquent yet concise, argument on behalf of the point of view which I hold. I believe that any elaboration by me, as apparently automatically expected by some members of this forum, would be rehashing the points already made by 4too, likely only having the effect of diluting them.
Therefore, at this time, I declare my simple agreement with the opinion of 4too as stated by his latest post on this forum. By this act I seek to simply strengthen said argument by affirming that 4too (and apparently Elric) does not stand alone in his view of the political situation being discussed in this thread. That is the most valuable contribution I see I can make to this thread at this time.
If new issues are raised, which I feel are not being addressed adequately by anyone else, I may then decide to further clarify my point of view. Until such time.....to reiterate....
I agree with 4too.
gonzo13 said:
Stop spamming.
Bradylama
So Old I'm Losing Radiation Signs
Gonzo, don't bullshit. Volume is not tantamount to content.
http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/files/lousheldon.wma
Interesting interview on the issue.
http://www.johnandkenshow.com/audio/files/lousheldon.wma
Interesting interview on the issue.
greatatlantic
It Wandered In From the Wastes
Just in to update this post with something everyone probably hear from other news services, Terri Schiavo has recently died. Let the litigation end, please. I get the feeling, though, we are in for some wrongful death suits.
calculon000
Sonny, I Watched the Vault Bein' Built!
Congress will probably try to the poor guy thrown in jail and/or executed now.
Dudes, I won't even bother to read the thread.
No matter how much I love Donald Duck, you guys suck terrbly right now.
Cutting off the food? WTF, did you just run out of fenol or someting? Would jou rather STARVE or get a merciful shot of poison to the veins??? Fucked up, man, fucked up...
No matter how much I love Donald Duck, you guys suck terrbly right now.
Cutting off the food? WTF, did you just run out of fenol or someting? Would jou rather STARVE or get a merciful shot of poison to the veins??? Fucked up, man, fucked up...
Silencer said:Dudes, I won't even bother to read the thread.
No matter how much I love Donald Duck, you guys suck terrbly right now.
Cutting off the food? WTF, did you just run out of fenol or someting? Would jou rather STARVE or get a merciful shot of poison to the veins??? Fucked up, man, fucked up...
It's not like it mattered to her.
She couldn't feel or think anything anyway. Braindead, eh.
Jeebs, are you God to be so sure of that? You can't tell... Besides, from what I've heard (I haven't really been following the story, but the news of this modus moriendi freaked me out.) she *wasn't* in a real coma, although there was no signs of her being aware of the surroundings...
And if there's no contact, not even the best of neurologists can say with absolute certainty what transpires in one's mind. You'd have more of a chance with exploring black holes in deep space.
I mean, starvation sucks, dude.
I like eating.
...
And if there's no contact, not even the best of neurologists can say with absolute certainty what transpires in one's mind. You'd have more of a chance with exploring black holes in deep space.
I mean, starvation sucks, dude.
I like eating.
...