Should I stay or should I go?

lolpop109 said:
Fundamentally fallout went from a RPG till a generic shooter
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It's a point on my end that I liked Fallout 3 specifically because I like shooting but I like RPGs too so a hybrid was more interesting to me than it might be otherwise. I can take or leave most Call of Duty games but the chance to make my own character, interact with the world, and have conversations was something I enjoyed.

But really, yes, Fallout 4 feels like someone did the shooting part better in Borderlands and the RPG part better in the Witcher 3.
 
CT Phipps said:
It's a point on my end that I liked Fallout 3 specifically because I like shooting but I like RPGs too so a hybrid was more interesting to me than it might be otherwise. I can take or leave most Call of Duty games but the chance to make my own character, interact with the world, and have conversations was something I enjoyed.

But really, yes, Fallout 4 feels like someone did the shooting part better in Borderlands and the RPG part better in the Witcher 3.
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I just feel Fallout 4 is a step away from Fallout 3
 
lolpop109 said:
I just feel Fallout 4 is a step away from Fallout 3
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It is. Fallout 4 felt like it removed:

* Interesting shit to see
* Interesting places to explore
* Well-developed, well-written factions

Also:

* Added an unnecessarily obtuse mini-game which you need to complete multiple times
* Added Radiant quests over written content

I gave Fallout 4 a 9 out of 10 ironically still because:

* The Companions are an amazing amount of fun and really what save the gam
* Companion Romances
* The Boston Area DOES have crap to explore unlike the beginning side of the map
* Improved facial graphics
* The Revised Brotherhood
* A couple of genuinely good moments like the Glowing Sea, Visit to the Institute, the emotionally charged battle with Kellog, and arrival of the Brotherhood which genuinely felt like what Fallout 4 should have been
* The USS Constitution :)
* The fact you can have a one night stand with Linda Carter. *pause* DON'T JUDGE ME.
 
CT Phipps said:
I'm sorry, that's unfair but I have an issue with gatekeeping. I can understand and appreciate the sense of loss which original game fans (which I am included of) have with the loss of Van Buren and the genre shift of Fallout from pure RPG to shooter/RPG. I, too, have issues with it.

I just happened to like the new games and think they have an undeserved bad reputation. There also seems to be a sense that if I don't hate them actively, I'm disrespecting the original games.
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No one thinks that if you don't hate the newer games you're disrespecting the originals. I don't hate Fallout 3 but over the years I've started thinking more critically about it. 4 is a particularly bad offender.

Little changes to the lore I could understand if handled right, but Bethesda have really misinterpreted what Fallout is in my opinion. I don't play Fallout for mass slaughtering raiders or building settlements, I play Fallout for the story, its characters, its backstory, its topics, it makes me question my actions when in other games I wouldn't care.

A small example, Vault 34 in New Vegas. Do I open the vents and doom the NCR's farm but save the few Vault dwellers left, or do I let them die but keep the farm going to feed more people?

I don't hate Fallout 3, 4 or anyone who likes those games. I will disagree with things but that's it.
 
CT Phipps said:
* Improved facial graphics
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But they still look like someone face-fucked a Barbie doll.
CT Phipps said:
* The Revised Errand dispensing machines
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Fixed it for you.
CT Phipps said:
the emotionally charged battle with Kellog
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Ruined by a) the fact that you have to kill him; and b) he shares his name with cereal.
*If you say it was out of passion, why couldn't I rp as a Christian that forgives him? Or maybe hook him up to a torture device and violate his anus everyday, feed him bits of his own body, and make him violate himself with a nuka cola bottle? The lack of choice in unusual torture is disturbing and easily knocks 3 points off of my overall score.

I agree with the top part of what you said. Might critique your precious companions soon.
 
CT Phipps said:
It is. Fallout 4 felt like it removed:

* Interesting shit to see
* Interesting places to explore
* Added an unnecessarily obtuse mini-game which you need to complete multiple times
* Radiant quests over written content
* Questionably written factions

I gave Fallout 4 a 9 out of 10 ironically still because:

* The Companions are an amazing amount of fun and really what save the game
* The Boston Area DOES have crap to explore unlike the beginning side of the map
* Improved facial graphics
* The Revised Brotherhood
* A couple of genuinely good moments like the Glowing Sea, Visit to the Institute, the emotionally charged battle with Kellog, and arrival of the Brotherhood which genuinely felt like what Fallout 4 should have been
* The USS Constitution :)
* The fact you can have a one night stand with Linda Carter. *pause* DON'T JUDGE ME.
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Yeah i see what you mean but most of the points however stuff like grahpics for me does't really make a good game. E.g Fallout 1 had grahpicaly limiation as was pretty revaluationary at the time to be fair. Where as Fallout 4 grahpics probably on the whloe isn't actually up to par with current next gen grahpics. But yeah i do respect yuor opion i just feel like there too little good points where as there alot of bad point to be raised
 
CT Phipps said:
I just ... think they have an undeserved bad reputation.
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As individual games perhaps, but certainly not as games in an established and specific series they insist on being a part and continuation of. These games - Fallout 3 and 4 - have nothing really in common with what Fallout was. All they have is a numbered title, a checklist of familiar names and a mascot. And that's it. They really should've been their own series and franchise, probably called something like Todd Howard's Twilight Zone 2000.
 
SarcasticGoodGuy said:
Ruined by a) the fact that you have to kill him; and b) he shares his name with cereal.
*If you say it was out of passion, why couldn't I rp as a Christian that forgives him? Or maybe hook him up to a torture device and violate his anus everyday, feed him bits of his own body, and make him violate himself with a nuka cola bottle? The lack of choice in unusual torture is disturbing and easily knocks 3 points off of my overall score.

I agree with the top part of what you said. Might critique your precious companions soon.
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Oh, I totally agree. You can forgive Daud in Dishonored and Corvo is powered by VengeanceTM.

lolpop109 said:
Yeah i see what you mean but most of the points however stuff like grahpics for me does't really make a good game. E.g Fallout 1 had grahpicaly limiation as was pretty revaluationary at the time to be fair. Where as Fallout 4 grahpics probably on the whloe isn't actually up to par with current next gen grahpics. But yeah i do respect yuor opion i just feel like there too little good points where as there alot of bad point to be raised
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There's a flaw in the design philosophy as well. A lot of people around here are seriously hard on the "Rule of Cool" but they seem to fail to realize Fallout 4 didn't bother going down that direction. The Capital Wasteland was "cool" in that traveling across a bombed out Washington D.C. and radioactive hell is entertaining in and of itself. However, the Commonwealth is primarily a radioactive swamp and there's not much fun exploring dozens of different identical settlements with 3 nameless farmers.

It's why I liked Nuka World because there was at least interesting shit to see.

Kohno said:
As individual games perhaps, but certainly not as games in an established and specific series they insist on being a part and continuation of. These games - Fallout 3 and 4 - have nothing really in common with what Fallout was. All they have is a numbered title, a checklist of familiar names and a mascot. And that's it. They really should've been their own series and franchise, probably called something like Todd Howard's Twilight Zone 2000.
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I'd argue with that but I think Fallout is game series which encapsulates a lot of fascinating and interesting things. I also note that I think of Bethesda as a different take on the franchise in the same way the new darker and edgier Battlestar Galactica was objectively different than the original space opera one.
 
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CT Phipps said:
Oh, I totally agree. You can forgive Daud in Dishonored and Corvo is powered by VengeanceTM.
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And it's made even better when you play the DLCs.
But if you don't mind me asking, why did you like the Kellogg's cornflakes fight? He doesn't have special moves, his pistol isn't some game-changer in pve combat, his only tactic is cover and stealth boys, his synth bodyguards are paper, and the dialogue before it was pretty bland.
 
CT Phipps said:
* The Companions are an amazing amount of fun and really what save the game
* Companion Romances
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How are the romances good? Your character just watched their spouse shot in the head five minutes ago. They should be in mourning not trying to start dating again. Not to mention that romance in Fallout 4 is picking locks and shooting your dog and healing it.

Romance in Fallout 4 is tacked on. If you think it is good, what do you think of romances in Bioware's rpgs? Because they at least put some effort into it.
 
SarcasticGoodGuy said:
And it's made even better when you play the DLCs.
But if you don't mind me asking, why did you like the Kellogg's cornflakes fight? He doesn't have special moves, his pistol isn't some game-changer in pve combat, his only tactic is cover and stealth boys, his synth bodyguards are paper, and the dialogue before it was pretty bland.
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It was, in my opinion, the only part of the main quest where the Sole Survivor's story actually had some zip. The Sole Survivors were allowed to emote for the first time in the game when they were denied that option almost the entirety of the game. I found it one of the worst elements of Fallout 4 that your spouse is murdered versus the possibility of meeting them up later in the game and choosing to renew your former romance or realizing post-apocalypse life has changed you both.

As for the Kellog fight, I genuinely felt it was really well done when I had it. I arrived at Kellog's base in the middle of the dark pouring rain, broke into the place, and encountered Synths who I felt were genuinely dangerous at that time (I had shit weapons). Nick Valentine was beside me and Kellog's taunts throughout gave the whole build up a really good "even if you kill this guy, it's not going to make anything better."

I also felt that Kellog gave as good a fight as possible with stealth since I hadn't seen that in a long time and had to think outside my comfort zone to beat him (I used grenades). I can't help but think the game would have benefited a great deal more if they'd kept him up until the end as he's a character who actually has pathos and they bothered to give an origin story.

Also, why did they establish Kellog could possess Nick Valentine if they weren't going to follow that up later?
 
cordelionreaver said:
Because they at least put some effort into it.
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If by effort, you mean making it good enough to fap to I agree.
There's no reason to go for anyone other than Liara. All you get with Tali is a shit photoshop.

CT Phipps said:
Also, why did they establish Kellog could possess Nick Valentine if they weren't going to follow that up later?
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They didn't follow up on that because they're shit and probably only started development after making an E3 demo.
 
cordelionreaver said:
How are the romances good? Your character just watched their spouse shot in the head five minutes ago. They should be in mourning not trying to start dating again. Not to mention that romance in Fallout 4 is picking locks and shooting your dog and healing it.
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You can spend months or years in-game time. Certainly, Piper seems to be a character designed to remind you of your wife if you're a male survivor. The method of winning Affinity with your spouse is also shitty, no doubts about that, but I really enjoyed the stories of the Companions I romanced and also the way I could set up our interactions.

Certainly, Cait and the Sole Survivor felt like an earned romance.



Even then, I feel like the game was a step back as you could marrying Ysolde or whoever in Skyrim but despite the presence of a chapel and an in-game wedding, it's not an option. It feels like Fallout was shipped with a lot of features taken out.

Romance in Fallout 4 is tacked on. If you think it is good, what do you think of romances in Bioware's rpgs? Because they at least put some effort into it.
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I used to be really invested in Bioware's romances but I have to say I was grossly disappointed in Dragon Age: Inquisition. The romances there were not only lackluster but they....okay, I'll cut myself off here before I go into a rant but the short version is that I have two games which really really disappointed me on a emotional level.

Thief (2013) which I hate with the fury that Fallout 4 is hated here.

Dragon Age: Inquisition which was a fine enough game but so shallow and emotionless and corporate-driven that it killed my interest in a fantasy setting I would normally have said was the best in RPGing.

SarcasticGoodGuy said:
They didn't follow up on that because they're shit and probably only started development after making an E3 demo.
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Oh, no doubts about it, Fallout feels like there's a hundred things planned but missing from it.

I have the working theory there's so many Settlements because they had plans to build actual locations but realized they couldn't.
 
SarcasticGoodGuy said:
Nah mate. Thief was good. Go back to Metal Gay Solid. Haha! This is the future of stealth gaming! Who needs Stephen Russel when you can have generic young white male #33 instead!? Rekt.

Now you know how NMA feel.
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Tis true, I didn't understand NMA until the Nuka World podcast when that game was brought up.

Then, at last, I could comprehend you.

:)
 
CT Phipps said:
Tis true, I didn't understand NMA until the Nuka World podcast when that game was brought up.

Then, at last, I could comprehend you.

:)
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I'm glad you can finally admit the flaws to a game you liked.
I can do the same:

Dishonored-
too short

Other than that the game is 12/8 perfect and any flaws with the plot you bring up I will adamantly defend with my crazy headcanon or use the excuse "not interested in discussing realism in a game with magic and a whale-but-not-really-a-whale God"

"Yes! HE killed the Empress"
 
CT Phipps said:
Oh, no doubts about it, Fallout feels like there's a hundred things planned but missing from it.

I have the working theory there's so many Settlements because they had plans to build actual locations but realized they couldn't.
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I think every Fallout game was shipped with unfinished and/or cut content. The original Fallout was missing at least two ending options because of cut characters(Hub and Followers).
 
SarcasticGoodGuy said:
I'm glad you can finally admit the flaws to a game you liked.
I can do the same:

Dishonored-
too short

Other than that the game is 12/8 perfect and any flaws with the plot you bring up I will adamantly defend with my crazy headcanon or use the excuse "not interested in discussing realism in a game with magic and a whale-but-not-really-a-whale God"

"Yes! HE killed the Empress"
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Should we gather for whiskey and cigars tonight?
 
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