So, anyone struggle through as a non-combat character?

[Sander]

Mutants still came at you, and killing everyone in Fallout without wearing armour is ridiculous.

Also, for the love of god, try using capitalisation and punctuation. It makes your post a lot easier to read.

 

[Erny]

In FO3 I beat super muties alone, still with a leather armour. In FO2 would be "NO FUCKING WAY!!"

And even running away in FO3 is a pain, cos they are shooting at you in real time, and usually they follow you like a bunch of retards.

So let me get this straight you kill mutant with no problems but running away is pain? and its bad they try to chase you?

I could kill every mutant in F2 even with no armor you only needed good enought weapon and skills like taking cover trees,buldings and so on...so it dident change much in F3...

Its about the game being designed as a shooter - you cant win it peacefully - you just have to run away still getting shot at and recieving damage. Some places you can sneak with good sneak skills or a stealthboy (duh). On the other hand, you`d have to run away from the random encounters in Fo1/2 as well (or probably just reload!)

But the main-line quest and many sidequests in Fo1/2 have a peacefull solution via diplomacy, sneak/steal, science etc. What Beth did? Used immortal brotherhood chars that can fight for you so the game essentialy plays itself (see: GNR, finale)

 

[gregor_y]

Well Enry your right Fallout 3 is designed as shooter.But i was talking about older Fallouts 1&2 and there its possible to beat super mutants without armor(even easier in f1)...only random encounter that i cant win without armor is enclave patrol on open field...

Sander learn to read im not talking about everything only super mutants...

Point is im having harder time with mutants in F3 than F1 or 2 maybe becouse i dont use vats...

 

[Sander]

Well Enry your right Fallout 3 is designed as shooter.But i was talking about older Fallouts 1&2 and there its possible to beat super mutants without armor(even easier in f1)...only random encounter that i cant win without armor is enclave patrol on open field...

Sander learn to read im not talking about everything only super mutants...

No shit, sherlock. Learn to interpret, you can't beat a random encounter of Super Mutants consistently without getting torn to shreds by miniguns, because those things do massive amounts of damage if you're not wearing any armour.

Point is im having harder time with mutants in F3 than F1 or 2 maybe becouse i dont use vats...

Super Mutants aren't exactly a challenge in Fallout 3. Hell, with a little save and reload, I wiped out the entire Super Mutant army in front of the GNR plaza at level 5.

 

[willod]

Alternately it could mean that they have cannabilistic tendencies, but I tend to think it's a combination of them killing rivals and leaving it as a warning,

Killing rivals I will buy but leaving a warning?... this would make sense if they were gangs interested in territory but they are raiders, they want stuff. And leaving corpses everywhere is like screaming "hey, we kill people; you should run away...with all your stuff." It isn't good for them to chase you away if they are just roaming raiders, they want to surprise and rob you. They kill you because you resist? But in actuality they kill you because they lack any personality or intelligence whatsoever...like supermutants and ghouls(FO3 versions of them anyway.) Seems like lack of creativity to me...or budget limitations.

EDIT: Not that this particular aspect of FO1/2 was a lot better, but it is 2008.

 

[gregor_y]

No shit, sherlock. Learn to interpret, you can't beat a random encounter of Super Mutants consistently without getting torn to shreds by miniguns, because those things do massive amounts of damage if you're not wearing any armour.

Super Mutants aren't exactly a challenge in Fallout 3. Hell, with a little save and reload, I wiped out the entire Super Mutant army in front of the GNR plaza at level 5.

Actually their miniguns do shit at long range they can kill you only if they got to you close or somekind miracle they hit you + critic...

Little save and reload that explains a lot...game is balanced if you dont reload every 5 minutes + dont use Vats...try to play with them then...

 

[k9wazere]

Actually their miniguns do shit at long range they can kill you only if they got to you close or somekind miracle they hit you + critic...

Little save and reload that explains a lot...game is balanced if you dont reload every 5 minutes + dont use Vats...try to play with them then...

What version of FO did you play? Where muties had to get "lucky crits" to kill you? Crits happened all the damn time.

Mini-guns did a large amount of damage because they fired a lot of bullets. Without armour you took the full damage from each bullet (and died).

With armour, IIRC, the damage of each bulltet gets reduced by the DR of your armour. Thus you can get hit by a mini-gun burst and take minimal damage.

But even then, muties would crit quite a lot, and it wasn't uncommon to get killed even in power armour.

 

[Sander]

Actually their miniguns do shit at long range they can kill you only if they got to you close or somekind miracle they hit you + critic...

Because those groups of 10 Super Mutants never get close to you when you hide around a corner, or you never end up next to Super Mutants in random encounters?

What fucked up version of Fallout did you play?

Also crits happened constantly.

Little save and reload that explains a lot...game is balanced if you dont reload every 5 minutes + dont use Vats...try to play with them then...

It's still easy as pie. The entire army required about 4 reloads, and Super Mutants never got me into any kind of trouble.

Also not using VATS isn't an excuse. It's an integral part of the gameplay. It's meant to be used.

 

[gregor_y]

Mini-guns did a large amount of damage because they fired a lot of bullets. Without armour you took the full damage from each bullet (and died).

Actually i dont think every bullet is counted common for example...

From 10mm Pistol shot at enclave guy in power armor you hit him for 5-10 damage normal ammo not ap...distance 15-20...

Now do same thing with minigun and theres always funny damage even 0 sometimes...your off with better chance to win with single shot gun i noticed same thing in F3...

Also i see you dident understand me in every post i writed duck and cover i dident writed im taking bullets without armor on chest...game is turn based so if you play right enemy will not have even chance to fire at you...any of you played x-com???

Also not using VATS isn't an excuse. It's an integral part of the gameplay. It's meant to be used.

Yes but that dosent mean i want to use it...

 

[Sander]

Actually i dont think every bullet is counted common for example...

They are.
That's why miniguns do almost no damage when you're in Power Armor. Because they process each bullet seperately and almost none of them go through the damage threshold.

Which is also why miniguns do obscene amounts of damage when you're not wearing any armor.

The fact that a 10mm pistol does more damage than a minigun is because each bullet from a 10mm pistol does more damage than each bullet from a minigun.

From 10mm Pistol shot at enclave guy in power armor you hit him for 5-10 damage normal ammo not ap...distance 15-20...

Now do same thing with minigun and theres always funny damage even 0 sometimes...your off with better chance to win with single shot gun i noticed same thing in F3...

Also i see you dident understand me in every post i writed duck and cover i dident writed im taking bullets without armor on chest...game is turn based so if you play right enemy will not have even chance to fire at you...any of you played x-com???

Throughout a lot of parts of the game you can't use that tactic as well as you pretend, since enemies are grouped together and will come at you.

That said, no, Fallout 1's AI isn't the best out there.

Yes but that dosent mean i want to use it...

Ehm, so? Again: that's not an argument as to why Fallout 3 is harder than Fallout.

It's like saying that Fallout is really really hard if you restrict yourself to just unarmed combat. You're just artificially limiting the way you're playing the game to create a difficult environment.

 

[Erny]

gregor_y is the first guy ever on four fallout-related boards who finds fo3 mutants hard.
thats funny.

100-health low-level mobs armed with sticks and inacutrate hunting rifles, worthy of only 10xp compared to high-level enemies of Fallout? lol (see http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=47235)

Fo3 is so easy even on Very Hard you 1-shot kill anyone with a head-shot crit from .44 magnum (mid-game weapon). And you MAXOUT smallguns skill at lvl 4-5! And get very good weapons even earlier.

That, and you recieve only 10% dmg in VATS, deal crits with every second headshot, have even better accuracy and firerate in real-time. And thats not all. You can freeze-time-open-pipboy any minute to heal yourself back to the max and even repair stuff. Could this game get easier? Oh I forgot fat-man and convinient exploding cars.

reloading game at GNR-plaza? thats strange, were you standing in the open with a 10mm pistol and neither ducking no healing? or got killed by a car explosion?

You could play this game iron-man style armed with a sledge, wearing leather armor and have a cake-walk. Try that in fallout2!

ps: Fo1 seemed rather easy once I got energy weapons. Eye-shoot with 95% acc from a distance they cant even spot you and stand like dummies. But that was in late-game, not at lvl 5.

 

[Roflcore]

The whole discussion is pointless. Play normal or hard difficulty, grab a 10mm in vault 101 and then go straight for the next orc/mutie. you won't have any problems killing him.

gregor is just making things up . military base without armor protection is insane. maybe he done it, but I bet his quicksave/quickload keys are nonexisting anymore. yeah, fun to play. oh and no, I don't need to quickload/quicksave to kill a orc in f3.

 

[bhlaab]

Yeah, large parts of the main quest require killing.

No idea why someone would want to do the main quest, but there you go.

 

[cratchety ol joe]

I have to agree with some points here, and point out some extra bits.

firstly yes I 'could' get through any mutie encounter in FO2 with no armour and only using unarmed punches. I would have to reload every single round to ensure the roll's went my way, but its still possible right?

there is no way that when actually playing through each and every encounter in the previous FO games that having no armour wouldn't mean instant gibification at some point. I like the challenge of a game and prefer the more 'Iron Man' approach, because afterwards I get a good feeling of actually accomplishing something. Thus when in FO2 i could finally go toe to toe with muties having leveled up and grabbed some kick ass armour + weapons I thought "hell yeah! take that you mutated freak!"

on my very first go at playing FO3, ii got to level 4 and only shortly having escaped the vault I clubbed a mutie to death with a baseball bat wearing my PJ's, much less satisfying to see that the once feared 'dominant' species of the wastes now was easy enough that I could just pat them harshly on the shoulder and they keel over dead.

Also regarding raiders, since when did they become so 'savage' my previous impression of raiders were that they were groups of people that didn't mix well with other social groups of the wastes and survived off of stolen foods and goods, often different 'raider' groups would fight for territory or whatever but I was NEVER previously under the impression that all raiders were complete psycho's that were into massive body mutilation/cannibalism. I think that they seem oddly out of synch or displaced from the rest of the fallout wastes and I'm having a hard time concluding 'why' they exist (other than as NPC's that can be shot to gain XP)

And to raise a point of 'talking with raiders' it was possible to talk your way into a camp of raiders in FO2. (part of the mission for/from Vault City and New Reno etc..)

finally i'll say this though (back on topic kinda) yes the lack of dialogue and otherwise shoddy dialogue where it does exist is frustrating.

 

[gregor_y]

OK im lame at fps games yay me any way about F2 i see people are wired sorry but:
1.I never said i finished whole game with no armor...i only said its possible...except some random encounters in open field...
2.I only meant mostly super mutants in their military base...
3.I was specific about no armor but i dident mention for example if i used stimpacks or bozar...or level of my char...
4.Most people have no idea what you can do with 10 agi at start + perks for faster moving...
5.Like i said Ai is dumb...so are some people but i bet clicking mouse in fps is new way of playing...

Example:

Ok navarro cleaning underground level with no armor imposible? not really you kill guy in robes go down sound alarm and wait.
All you need to do is place your char so that he is hiden behinde wall(at end of tunel) and it will require you only 1 move to got abilabity to shot and secound one to hide again.This way before enemies go to you you can fire many times at them and they cant becouse your not in line of fire...is that really imposible? its possible in most locations...

About military base same thing but mutants got weaker armors and less hp so...navarro example is great to prove im right you dont belive me make fast char level him to 150-200 big guns get him bozar and 5-10 stimpacks just in case and do what i ask you to to navarro underground level...ground level is harder becouse your not in tunnel...and your playing cat & mouse...

 

[Dionysus]

It's not the way I played either, but when I learned you could do this, I had to admire the devs for supporting wildly different play-styles.

And with that in mind, I rolled a "talky" character in F3, only to find out that Beth doesn't continue the trend.

Before saying something like that, you should go back and actually try that playing style with the originals. It's not that much different from FO3. Basically, it requires a good amount of metagaming and running away. And the running away is very irritating because it often takes place in TB mode. It's sort of a fun accomplishment (like beating Resident Evil with just the knife), but it definitely isn't anything I would recommend for a first playthrough.

And I don't know if it ought to be any other way. It's a dangerous PA wasteland full of aggro'd mutants.

 

[Trithne]

Ok navarro cleaning underground level with no armor imposible? not really you kill guy in robes go down sound alarm and wait.
All you need to do is place your char so that he is hiden behinde wall(at end of tunel) and it will require you only 1 move to got abilabity to shot and secound one to hide again.This way before enemies go to you you can fire many times at them and they cant becouse your not in line of fire...is that really imposible? its possible in most locations...

About military base same thing but mutants got weaker armors and less hp so...navarro example is great to prove im right you dont belive me make fast char level him to 150-200 big guns get him bozar and 5-10 stimpacks just in case and do what i ask you to to navarro underground level...ground level is harder becouse your not in tunnel...and your playing cat & mouse...

That's called twinking in my book of RPGs. And yes, ducking in and out of cover is a valid tactic. But if there's enough of them (And let's not go into having Bozar) they'll eventually get around that corner and kill you. You're talking about beating FO2 without armour because you're twinking it. And that's fine. But it doesn't mean FO3's any better because I can beat a Super Mutant in melee while naked. Go try THAT in FO2, because that's the argument. Not that you can hide-shoot-hide with an overpowered gun.

 

[Roflcore]

Basically, it requires a good amount of metagaming

no.

 

[gregor_y]

And that's fine. But it doesn't mean FO3's any better because I can beat a Super Mutant in melee while naked. Go try THAT in FO2, because that's the argument. Not that you can hide-shoot-hide with an overpowered gun.

F2 had very easy turn system if you like hard combat i recomend x-com 1 or 2...even if its older game its far more advanced at least i like it...

And true its imposible to kill mutant in F2 with melee with no armor...but i think in F1 mutants had what 70 hp? i think it was possible in F1...

Also i think F3 is based on F1 more than F2...

 

[Kashrlyyk]

....

It has nothing to do with technology. Its a desing descision. Riders are just hostile mobs, like muties or crabmen.
Technology IS there, in this very game - you just make them neutral NPCs that run to you and force you into a dialogue "the money or your life". And shoot if you try to run. Or become hostile depending on your karma. Or depending on your appearance - equip riders armor and helmet - and become their friend, just like with the ghoul mask.
If Beth releases SDK, mods could fix that.

On a sidenote, there are slavers you can negotiate.

And if they put in sex and the kama sutra perk, you could have a massive sex orgy at the raider camp. And when they are all exhausted, well...

Mr. Sandman bring me a dream
make it as sweet as it can be......

Yes you can. Fo1 is beatable with ZERO kills on the list.
F2 - with 1 kill on the list (and even that one is killed by other guys you persuade, but you still get a score)

Not my way of play style so grats to people who finished game like this and i dont take under consideration speed runs...

It's not the way I played either, but when I learned you could do this, I had to admire the devs for supporting wildly different play-styles.

And with that in mind, I rolled a "talky" character in F3, only to find out that Beth doesn't continue the trend.

This alone is reason enough to say, Fallout 3 is not a worthy or at all a sequel of Fallout.

But you forget that there are tons of strung up corpses everywhere that Raiders are present.

...

Say hello to the reavers of Firefly.