So Bethesda wants to bring back paid mods...

[MercenarySnake]

Yeah then when people start to pirate paid DLCs then Bethesda will put DRM like Denuvo on them.

 

[Risewild]

When money gets thrown into a scene which has mostly relied on good will it tends to shatter, much like the last time this fiasco reared it's ugly head. People think that if there was an incentive to modding then higher quality mods will start to come out. I think this is pure horseshit, first off there are many high quality mods that have been made for previous games when money never came up and often times was refused.

hmm ranty enough? For now I think so.

Unfortunately Skyrim mod scene changed that good will a lot, the game with more "prima donnas" and self centred modders with god complex I have ever seen, unfortunately. Of course there are also quite nice ones, but compared to FO3 and FNV modding community, it is a total cesspool .

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Valve's original cooperation on this subject came from the success of mods like Black Mesa and Garry's Mod as actual sold games. They were fun and functional as mods but not particularly well-supported, but with later profits from selling them as Valve-approved games, the support gets better and better.

A lot of people reacted negatively when they found out only in the paid release of Black Mesa would there be the last half of the game, but I feel that was relatively justified - the team working on it deserves the money, both to continue with the last half and for their hard work on the first, IMO.

I'm not surprised to see that Bethesda Game Studios probably assumes the same benefits will come out of allowing paid mods seeing as BGS most of the time are usually fond of big ideas and no logical conclusion, while Bethesda Softworks is happy to see yet another way to make more money. It's technically a win-win for them.

I would feel sorry for Valve for being associated with this whole paid mods debacle, but then I remember they own the entirety of Steam, CS:GO, DOTA 2, and Team Fortress 2, and then I remembered that they don't necessarily need my pity because they're rich as fuck. (Still think they're a good company though)

 

[Risewild]

Paid mods for Bethesda games should have a system like the steam greenlight, to give the chance for people to see what the mod is about and for modders to check if their content was stolen and being sold. There has to be regulations and someone to oversee all the mods before the mods become available for "purchase".

Bethesda should also provide good support for mod makers, if there is a mod that has some game breaking bugs but it is caused by the game and not the mod, Bethesda should offer the mod maker all the help, info and even tools to fix it (if the mod costs money to be played, Bethesda has to be responsible for their own products and that mod will become a Bethesda product or they shouldn't see a cent from the sale of it).

There should also be a way of buyers to get their money back if they are not satisfied with the mod they bought, and also a way for the game to detect if the player stops using that mod or not after returning it (kinda like Steam free weekend games, after the weekend finishes we get a buy button instead of a play button on that game), so users do not pay, get a mod, return it and get the money back, then gets all the files he/she backed up and "installs" it again and play the mod for free .

Bethesda will have a lot of problem implementing a good and safe paid mod network, or they will just make it really simple and let the users and mod makers to fend for themselves while Bethesda gets richer .

 

[Mudguy47]

Funny enough all the mods that were for sale the last time were all pirated, available through reddit.

Unfortunately Skyrim mod scene changed that good will a lot, the game with more "prima donnas" and self centred modders with god complex I have ever seen, unfortunately. Of course there are also quite nice ones, but compared to FO3 and FNV modding community, it is a total cesspool .

Yeah I have noticed. When Skyrim rolled around it was more about fame, endorsements, and the like. The god complex I see quite a bit over on the Skyrim Nexus and the workshop when I would occasionally go around there. The paid modding fiasco just deepened that attitude and made a shitstorm and a half.

Valve's original cooperation on this subject came from the success of mods like Black Mesa and Garry's Mod as actual sold games. They were fun and functional as mods but not particularly well-supported, but with later profits from selling them as Valve-approved games, the support gets better and better.

A lot of people reacted negatively when they found out only in the paid release of Black Mesa would there be the last half of the game, but I feel that was relatively justified - the team working on it deserves the money, both to continue with the last half and for their hard work on the first, IMO.

I'm not surprised to see that Bethesda Game Studios probably assumes the same benefits will come out of allowing paid mods seeing as BGS most of the time are usually fond of big ideas and no logical conclusion, while Bethesda Softworks is happy to see yet another way to make more money. It's technically a win-win for them.

I would feel sorry for Valve for being associated with this whole paid mods debacle, but then I remember they own the entirety of Steam, CS:GO, DOTA 2, and Team Fortress 2, and then I remembered that they don't necessarily need my pity because they're rich as fuck. (Still think they're a good company though)

I would fully support those big mods heading independent like those other source engine mods, those are the types of mods that deserve the money. Now that isn't to discredit the smaller guys for what they contributed but those big mods are simply huge.

 

[eissa]

unfortunately, valve is not making games anymore....

 

[AskWazzup]

It's strange that bethesda of all companies would go for paid mods, when their games benefit the most out of free mods. They don't even have to spend money on patches, because the community fixes their games for free and gives them a much longer lifespan on the shelf. I'm pretty sure that people would still buy their games like hotcakes (even the harshest critics in this forum bought the latest F4), but i wonder how will that effect them in the longer term, if they keep releasing games that do not offer great value in terms of story and content like they are doing now.

edit: I thought about it, and since they are great at marketing they are probably good at scouting the market too, so if bethesda wants paid mods, their customers are probably gullible enough to follow suite.

 

[Spacemunkey]

 

[aenemic]

I think great modders deserve something back for their dedication and hard work, but I don't think this is the right way to go.

For starters, this is clearly a cash-grab by Bethesda. From what I can recall, last time they tried this they wanted a 50% cut of the profits. That's so ridiculously greedy that it should be obvious to everyone that this has nothing to do with looking out of the modders.

That said, what such a system could provide is support and protection for modders, a lower risk of their creations being stolen and claimed by someone else. But it will also heavily limit freedom and creativity. Mods will get heavily censored, there will be copyright and trademark issues, and most importantly I'm very doubtful modders will be able to claim any sort of ownership or copyright from Bethesda/Zenimax. And I'm fairly sure that the modding scene for these games has grown so much because of the freedom of it, both creatively and monetary. But maybe they want their games to be known as those games where you have to pay twice the sum of any other game for them to be enjoyable, or even playable.

If anything, I think Bethesda should donate to the hardest working modders to keep them going and keep their games alive, or hire them, put them in creative positions and watch their games actually become good.

 

[Irwin John Finster]

Paid mods were never, and will never be about modders getting paid for their work.

 

[Lanfear]

I'm a modder. I hated this system back when it was introduced and hate it now. Main reason was and is the fact that this has nothing to do with Bethesda trying to give modders a way to earn money, as Hines' PR scumbag bullshit may suggest; it's about Bethesda cashing in on the work of others without doing a fucking thing for it.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

Countless mods for Half-Life 2 and other Source games were later approved by Valve into becoming paid full games, so on paper, paid mods probably looked like an ambitious and fulfilling idea, kind of like laissez-faire capitalism. In practice, they demonstrate exactly why even regulated capitalism isn't perfect. Ironically, Valve's entire strategy after Half-Life was to basically hire either amateur devs or modders for everything. Case in point:

• DOTA 2 was a sequel to DOTA, which in turn was a mod for Warcraft III, whose devs may have been hired into Valve
• Team Fortress 2 was a sequel to Team Fortress, which was a mod for Quake, whose devs were hired into Valve
• Counter-Strike originally spawned from a mod for Half-Life, whose devs were later hired into Valve
• Portal was a spiritual successor to Narbacular Drop, an indie game by students of a video game university, who were later hired into Valve
• Portal 2 featured the gels mechanic from Tag: The Power of Paint, which was an indie game that won a competition, whose devs were later hired into Valve

I'm guessing they naively saw the same value coming out of the paid mods system, but turns out it never really could've taken off because human nature. I do enjoy the parallel between Valve and EA though, in that they both eat developers up, but what they do with the developers they eat up are vastly different.

I've never seen anything to indicate that Valve are "just as bad as the rest of them" as some NMAers have described. Okay, they're currently being a little lazy, what with not giving updates on what they're doing and having crappy support service, but they're not actively trying to take money, they're passively receiving money.

 

[Spacemunkey]

Paid mods were never, and will never be about modders getting paid for their work.

If it was BGS would have taken between 5-10% which would have been what amounted to a franchise fee, and another small amount to steam for hosting the mods, leaving the author with 80-90% of the revenue. I also have no problem paying a Netflix style subscription for a mod site that would pay mod authors based on downloads.

 

[MercenarySnake]

I thought modding was about creating /tweaking content in a game you love to play or just for the hell of it to enhance features that are lacking or to make a terrible game more tolerable? Donating to the mod author is fine but it's unofficial content made on someone's free time not a job. That doesn't mean I don't think of how hard doing that is or how amazing of a job they do on these mods but it's basically something done on someone's free time.

I don't mean to sound mean.
That's why I like playing good games that don't need mods to make it tolerable or enjoyable.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

I don't mean to sound mean.

Having an opinion is not mean and I don't take offense to your post.

I thought modding was about creating /tweaking content in a game you love to play or just for the hell of it to enhance features that are lacking or to make a terrible game more tolerable?

It's also a hobby and sort of like a different way of playing. It can be challenging and rewarding too. A game doesn't have to be terrible to want to modify it and a curse that I have now as a modder. I can not play games I can't modify, except for F2 because it is just that damn good. I always want to tweak things and I usually give up on unmodifiable games quite quickly.

Donating to the mod author is fine but it's unofficial content made on someone's free time not a job. That doesn't mean I don't think of how hard doing that is or how amazing of a job they do on these mods but it's basically something done on someone's free time.

The question is why isn't it a job? If Brodual, who doesn't play games can afford to live from reviewing something I have created, why am I not allowed to make an income from the same work? I started modding before donations were a thing and I mod for myself and choose to share it with everyone because there is a chance someone will like it. Mod authors get death threats and abuse constantly. For some modders the stress it brings is too much and they vanish due to the abuse the community give them. I'm not saying modding "should be a job/career" But I wouldn't complain if I could do what I like full time, and what others enjoy.

If I look at my mod list for All the games I have, there are many mods I would not pay for, but there are definitely some that I think are worth money. For example, I would not be playing Fallout 2 still if it wasn't for the mods. Some of the mods I have installed may not be essential to play, but for example, there is a mod for Morrowind by Emma and Grumpy that allows you to teleport your companions from anywhere. If they were charging $1.00 for it, I would have no complaints in paying that as it is that awesome to me. For me to say that I would never pay or give money to something someone else poured there heart into, well I guess I am a different person.

Have you ever given money to a beggar? What has that beggar done for you? Why is it so bad to put a small price on some mods? The simple fact is that when paid modding was out, people were happy to pay $3.00 for a fishing mod, there was over 1000 people I think on day one. That's $750 for one day. I can bet you that Chesko Has not made even that much in donations in the last year. Maybe $20.00.

It is a hard thing to explain for me, but I can see the good and bad in it. It is a hobby, but I don't see why one can't make an income out of a hobby so long as people aren't being screwed over.

 

[Lanfear]

I can not play games I can't modify, except for F2 because it is just that damn good.

You can totally mod Fallout 2. It's actually a lot less opaque a system than you would think.

The question is why isn't it a job? If Brodual, who doesn't play games can afford to live from reviewing something I have created, why am I not allowed to make an income from the same work?

This was the key argument on the Nexus at the time of the first paid mod debacle if I recall, and it's absolutely a fair question. I don't have a high opinion of career YouTubers myself - I consider the relationship between people who make their living monetising mod reviews and etc. on YouTube and mod makers themselves highly parasitic.

I think modders should be entitled to monetise the content they put out if they desire to do so, but I am dead against publishers making a tonne of money in the process.

 

[Knight In Leather Armor]

The reason why paid mods is bad @DirtyOldShoe is because most of the money goes to Bethesda, and the lowest amount of money goes to the actual mod author.

So let's say a mod is sold for 20 dollars. BethSoft gets 16 dollars, Steam gets 3 dollars, and the mod author gets 1 dollar.(probably not accurate but you get my point.)

If BethSoft didn't get money or got the least amount of money paid mods would be tolerable but BethSoft gets most of it from a person doing the work for them.

 

[DirtyOldShoe]

The reason why paid mods is bad @DirtyOldShoe is because most of the money goes to Bethesda, and the lowest amount of money goes to the actual mod author.

So let's say a mod is sold for 20 dollars. BethSoft gets 16 dollars, Steam gets 3 dollars, and the mod author gets 1 dollar.(probably not accurate but you get my point.)

If BethSoft didn't get money or got the least amount of money paid mods would be tolerable but BethSoft gets most of it from a person doing the work for them.

It won't be hosted on Steam going forward, Bethesda.net was created for that very purpose. Bethesda plans on cutting out the middleman, which means the numbers will most likely be more balanced this time around.

Further more, What do you do for a living? How much does your boss get paid based on your work, how much does your bosses boss make from your efforts? How much do you bank a month? Do you enjoy what you do? I think it is very comparable to most "jobs" out there.

 

[ZigzagPX4]

It's hard to explain, but the basis of it is that from their actions, you can tell whether a company is introducing an idea purely for their own profit, or also for the benefit of others.

It won't be hosted on Steam going forward, Bethesda.net was created for that very purpose. Bethesda plans on cutting out the middleman, which means the numbers will most likely be more balanced this time around.

This strongly suggests Bethesda is doing the former.

 

[Knight In Leather Armor]

Video is inaccurate. Should've said "We know you like mods so much we're going to make you pay for them. Oh, did we mention most of the profit goes to us and not the person who made it?"